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Tommah posted:the future is bright for comedy but so is the past He's not wrong
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Jun 18, 2015 13:12
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Joementum posted:Rand Paul's bold new idea is a totally unworkable tax scheme. Why would he do this, is he a glutton for punishment? Did he vote for Forbes in the 90's? http://crooksandliars.com/2015/06/chris-wallace-smacks-rick-santorum-flat Santorum just tried it and got assaulted on FoxNews, of all places.
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Jun 18, 2015 13:13
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The Larch posted:Now that's a platform we can all get behind.
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Jun 18, 2015 13:18
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Another poll confirms BERNIEMENTUM in New Hampshire http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/16/bernie-sanders-new-hampshire-primary-poll_n_7598408.html quote:Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has gained support in New Hampshire Democratic presidential primary polls and is now within 10 percentage points of front-runner Hillary Clinton.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:36
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Joementum posted:Rand Paul's bold new idea is a totally unworkable tax scheme. So he either gets rid of SS or raises taxes on businesses. Both outcomes no one will support. 
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Jun 18, 2015 15:19
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In a rare first of its kind move, a Socialist organization has begun a campaign trying to prove that someone who identifies as a Socialist is actually not a true Socialist at all. Jacobin has a series of essays out now making the case against Bernie Sanders. The list of charges follows: quote:In jumping into the Democratic Party primaries, Sanders appointed a quintessential corporate party insider, Ted Devine, to be his campaign manager. Devine has worked for a series of Democratic presidential candidates, from Walter Mondale to John Kerry. Sanders’s retreat is based on a liberal strategy of attempting to transform the Democratic Party from within that has failed for generations. Instead of shifting the Democrats to the left, the leftists who join the Democrats get dragged to the right. quote:Sanders put up a portrait of Debs in his new office — a portrait that now hangs in his Capitol Hill office. quote:But in running for the Democratic presidential nomination as an outsider with almost no chance of winning, Sanders isn’t very “bold.” His offers no more hope than the fizzled presidential campaigns of Dennis Kucinich. And by steering liberal and left supporters into a Democratic Party whose policies and politics he claims to disagree with, Sanders — no matter how critical he might be of Hillary Clinton — is acting as the opposite of an “alternative.” quote:Once ensconced in Washington as a member of the House and Senate, he abandoned his principled opposition to the two-party system. As Howard Dean said on Meet the Press in 2005, “He is basically a liberal Democrat. . . . The bottom line is that Bernie Sanders votes with the Democrats 98 percent of the time.” quote:If Sanders had his heart set on national politics, he could have run for president like Ralph Nader as an independent, opposing both capitalist parties. quote:"Sanders doesn’t offer the ... principled anti-imperialist politics that we should demand on the Left," quote:His foreign policy positions are to the right of many liberal Democrats. quote:To be sure, there are dangers in a Sanders bid for president. Historically, attempts to grow social movements through outsider primary runs — like the 1980s Jackson campaigns — were dead-ends, and possibly even weakened independent political efforts. They do end on a positive note about Bernie's candidacy though: quote:A vibrant Sanders campaign would be a sign that bleak job prospects and the squeezing of American workers are creating a political constituency for change. When he fails, there’s every reason to believe that radical voices can take his place, carrying the memory of Debs back into the political mainstream. This is literally the first time this has ever happened on the left, so it will be interesting to see if it succeeds in bringing about full socialism. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 15:36
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Rand has renamed the "payroll tax" to "the workers' tax".
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Jun 18, 2015 15:37
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Holy poo poo a U.S. politician just used the word "workers." And a republican at that. 
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Jun 18, 2015 15:45
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Joementum posted:Rand has renamed the "payroll tax" to "the workers' tax". Unlike the estate tax which shall henceforth be known as the "Aristocracy Tax" and taxes on stocks which shall henceforth be referred collectively to as "Money Tree" taxes.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:50
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Jacobin for Rand All Power to the Workers
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Jun 18, 2015 15:51
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quote:And his own variant of socialism is more reminiscent of former Swedish Prime Minister Olof Palme, a fellow social democrat, than the Bolshevik-sympathizing Debs Hold on, they are comparing him to Olof loving Palme, One of swedens 'national heroes' for a lack of better term? and they are doing so negatively? holy gently caress these guys have no clue what they are talking about.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:55
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Is voting with the Democrats most of the time a bad thing? I'm sure that even the most radical socialist would tend to vote with them if they had Bernie's seat, since it's not like there's a party that's farther left that's proposing its own legislation.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:00
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Jacobin is a magazine that pretty much shits on any progress at all unless it's the instantaneous delivery of full communism now.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:01
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SniHjen posted:Hold on, they are comparing him to Olof loving Palme, One of swedens 'national heroes' for a lack of better term? The issue as I see it is that Bernie isn't really a socialist unless he actually campaigns on nationalizing the means of production or whatnot. Him taking up the badge of "socialist" as one of honor is something I applaud but he's obviously a social democrat in the Scandinavian vein, not a socialist. Since social democracy is a foreign term in American political language, socialist works just as well because he's going to be accused of being one anyway. But if you're a hardcore socialist, this will tick you off. It's just your standard internecine claptrap.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:03
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The word socialist as it stands in American politics is very different from the historical Marxist definition. Bernie Sanders self described use of the word is accurate to the former, he doesn't advertise himself as a smash the state Bolshevik.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:08
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Yeah. It's pretty much the "liberal" thing all over again.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:11
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Hate group National Organization of Marriage has released the presidential pledge and it's a doozy quote:NOM Presidential Pledge: I,__________________________, pledge to the American people that if elected President, I will: One, support a federal constitutional amendment that protects marriage as the union of one man and one woman. http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/18/politics/same-sex-marriage-pledge/index.html
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Jun 18, 2015 16:14
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Why isn't Bernie promising to seize the means of production? Would love to see what a Jacobin-approved cabinet would look like. Probably a lot like the masthead for Jacobin.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:16
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Antti posted:The issue as I see it is that Bernie isn't really a socialist unless he actually campaigns on nationalizing the means of production or whatnot. Him taking up the badge of "socialist" as one of honor is something I applaud but he's obviously a social democrat in the Scandinavian vein, not a socialist. Since social democracy is a foreign term in American political language, socialist works just as well because he's going to be accused of being one anyway. Sanders always uses the phrase "Democractic Socialist" when describing himself. He gets asked by reporters all the time if he's really a Socialist (because they still can't believe anyone would voluntarily identify themselves as such, I guess) and pretty consistently puts the qualifier in there, often with a little reminder that the phrase refers to Scandinavian-style government, not an authoritarian Soviet-style paradigm. So to the extent anyone thinks he's claiming to be a hardcore Marxist fighting for full Communism, they're a) misinformed by a media which lazily fails to make the distinction and b) just not listening directly to anything Sanders says on the matter.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:33
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:In a rare first of its kind move, a Socialist organization has begun a campaign trying to prove that someone who identifies as a Socialist is actually not a true Socialist at all. I, too, remember how Peta Lindsay and Jill Stein's runs outside the mainstream parties mobilized true leftists and brought about real existing socialism in 2012.  (I did vote for Lindsay, btw)It helps to think of Jacobin as Forbes for champagne socialists.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:42
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Absurd Alhazred posted:(I did vote for Lindsay, btw) Mod bias confirmed
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Jun 18, 2015 16:49
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Supraluminal posted:Sanders always uses the phrase "Democractic Socialist" when describing himself. He gets asked by reporters all the time if he's really a Socialist (because they still can't believe anyone would voluntarily identify themselves as such, I guess) and pretty consistently puts the qualifier in there, often with a little reminder that the phrase refers to Scandinavian-style government, not an authoritarian Soviet-style paradigm. That's part of the tragic enduring legacy of the Cold War, unfortunately. Words like "socialism" got used so loosely by the US government, the media, and left-leaning regimes and non-state actors, that the assumption among most Americans is that "capitalism" and "socialism" are the only two options. If you're capitalist, you believe in some form of market economy. If you're socialist, you don't, nor do you believe in private property or civil liberties or anything like that. Which is unfortunate, because it's not a dichotomy and socialism is a lot more heterogeneous of a term.
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Jun 18, 2015 17:08
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Family Values posted:The real question is what was Wisconsin's rank before Walker took office. Did he close the cheese gap or widen it? Given that he's a Republican, I expect that he cut the cheese vigorously from the moment he took office
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Jun 18, 2015 17:52
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Joementum posted:Rand has renamed the "payroll tax" to "the workers' tax". So Rand already knows he doesn't have a chance right? Did the Donald's entry in the campaign have a positive effect in causing people to start thinking about dropping out.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:01
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SniHjen posted:Hold on, they are comparing him to Olof loving Palme, One of swedens 'national heroes' for a lack of better term? Jacobin is a stupid magazine, written by stupid people, for the stupid leftists that you see selling party newspapers.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:01
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Chokes McGee posted:Given that he's a Republican, I expect that he cut the cheese vigorously from the moment he took office 
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Jun 18, 2015 18:20
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Trump is officially IN THE RACE!
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Jun 18, 2015 19:57
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I, too, remember how Peta Lindsay and Jill Stein's runs outside the mainstream parties mobilized true leftists and brought about real existing socialism in 2012. I voted for a black socialist because I know a neo-Stalinist who was way too excited about Lindsay. I am the splitter.
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Jun 18, 2015 20:07
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Luigi Thirty posted:I voted for a black socialist because I know a neo-Stalinist who was way too excited about Lindsay. I am the splitter. There was a black socialist running in 2012? 
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Jun 18, 2015 20:34
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Absurd Alhazred posted:There was a black socialist running in 2012? SPUSA was on the Florida ballot. Their candidate was a black man. So I can say that I voted for a black socialist. 
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Jun 18, 2015 20:42
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Absurd Alhazred posted:There was a black socialist running in 2012? Yeah, his name was Barack Obama  ...I'll show myself out.
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Jun 18, 2015 20:59
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Alter Ego posted:Yeah, his name was Barack Obama Congrats we're "besties" now.
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Jun 18, 2015 21:05
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:In a rare first of its kind move, a Socialist organization has begun a campaign trying to prove that someone who identifies as a Socialist is actually not a true Socialist at all. The Jacobin isn't really a homogenous organization. They have also run pro-Bernie pieces. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/05/bernie-sanders-president-vermont-socialist/ https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/05/bernie-sanders-president-primary-hillary/ Also, the quality of their writers varies greatly. The nice thing is that they give a voice to lots of radical writers, even if half or more of them don't really have any idea what they're talking about.
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Jun 18, 2015 21:47
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Yeah, I'm a big Bernie fan and I like the Jacobin sometimes. Those two articles are good. Anyways, so how about that Bernie polling 10% below Hillary in New Hampshire in a second poll now eh?? Looks like we have an actual competitive democratic primary on our hands now.
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Jun 18, 2015 21:51
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I'm glad that the state with the first primary has a total population roughly equivalent to the number of people living in poverty in the Chicago Metro Area
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Jun 18, 2015 21:54
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:Yeah, I'm a big Bernie fan and I like the Jacobin sometimes. Those two articles are good. No, we don't. He's getting demolished in SC and Iowa polling by 46 points and 45 points, respectively. He doesn't even manage to crack 15% support and more people say they want to vote for Biden.
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Jun 18, 2015 22:01
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I, for one, am happy to live in a state that is politically irrelevant nationally.
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Jun 18, 2015 22:04
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Competitive primaries tend to be great at raising important issues for the base that would otherwise be overlooked in the rush to the middle during the general. However, I remain skeptical that Bernie really has much of a shot at being taken seriously even if he did win NH.
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Jun 18, 2015 22:20
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New Hampshire is extremely weird. I know there's a long tradition of the NH primary, and NH is interesting (at least in New England terms) because it swings both ways  but as a state it is not representative of anything.
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Jun 18, 2015 22:24
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Jacobin's online stuff is mostly poo poo. They're more scrupulous about what goes into the print publication. Most of their pieces on education or urban infrastructure are valuable, other topics are not as strong.
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Jun 18, 2015 22:25
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