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Finished Consider Phlebas earlier. Great book, although I'm kind of conflicted on the ending. It just seemed so... depressing. If Banks was trying to illustrate the uselessness/waste of war, did he loving ever succeed. Started On Silver Wings. Seems pretty decent so far. Pretty milporn-ish, lots of words dedicated to talking about awesome power suits and corneal implants and blood-borne super-healing bacteria and such. But the... antagonists are straight out of more fantastic sort of sci-fi. It's giving me a kind of 'Star Wars by way of Tom Clancy' vibe that's strangely palatable. e: On the third of Currie's books. They're nothing really special, but fun mil-scifi. There's one sequence in particular in the third book where the main character is riding down a space elevator on top of the car and in a gunfight with alien snipers on the ground that's ridiculous as hell in the most awesome way. WarLocke fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jun 14, 2015 |
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Jun 11, 2015 01:41
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WarLocke posted:Finished Consider Phlebas earlier. Great book, although I'm kind of conflicted on the ending. It just seemed so... depressing. If Banks was trying to illustrate the uselessness/waste of war, did he loving ever succeed. Iain M. Banks posted:"I've read so many SF books where the action is terribly, terribly important to the fate of everyone and everything. That fate of a whole planet can hang on the outcome of a protagonist's actions. Sometimes, the fate of the entire universe! Well, if you look at history, this is very unusual indeed. What usually happens is that people suffer and die and get involved in all sorts of mayhem and catastrophe and it doesn't make that much difference in the end.
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Jun 16, 2015 09:13
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I opened On Silver WIngs and five minutes in I found a reference to "progressive" governments (quotations are Currie's, not mine) allowing "primitive" tribes to maintain their way of life instead of forcing them to join modern society. Oh boy. Should I keep on going with the book or is it just going to give me a headache?
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Jun 17, 2015 03:57
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Mars4523 posted:I opened On Silver WIngs and five minutes in I found a reference to "progressive" governments (quotations are Currie's, not mine) allowing "primitive" tribes to maintain their way of life instead of forcing them to join modern society. Oh boy. Honestly it seems like random right wing talking points is part and parcel of most mil-sf. At this point I don't even notice them unless they're really egregious. The series got knd of ridiculous near the end (literal anime mecha, time-travel communication via gravity warp, a tesseract inside every enemy ship...) but there were enough dumb action setpieces to get me through them. And the fourth book is a cold-war skulduggery take that fleshes out the aliens even more.
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Jun 17, 2015 04:35
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WarLocke posted:The series got knd of ridiculous near the end (literal anime mecha, time-travel communication via gravity warp, a tesseract inside every enemy ship...) but there were enough dumb action setpieces to get me through them. How in the world are any of those things bad? And to the other dude complaining about whatever, that's what Star Trek did, no? Kind of. Or it's what America did...to the Native Americans. A little bit. It's not like that's such a foreign idea - I assume that's what the quotes are for. I try to stay out of talking head politics though, so maybe I'm missing the point.
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Jun 17, 2015 05:44
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Drifter posted:How in the world are any of those things bad? I didn't say they were bad, just ridiculous. Most of the series is pretty grounded mil-sf and then those come out of nowhere. I found those twists to be pretty awesome, but I can see someone expecting straight scifi to maybe feel like it's jumping the tracks. Again, there's literally a section in the third book with the main character standing on top of a space elevator car in power armor 80 miles off the ground sniping alien insurgents as they try to cut the tether she's riding down that's so absurd it wrap around into being awesome.
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Jun 17, 2015 06:20
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Drifter posted:. Or it's what America did...to the Native Americans. A little bit. Who the hell taught you history? No, we did not let them keep their way of life, we destroyed their way of life, genocided them, and shuffled the few remaining ones off into segregated areas away from us where we keep loving them over to this day.
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Jun 17, 2015 12:09
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Drifter posted:How in the world are any of those things bad? And as for the MilSF thing, I just read Catherine Asaro's latest and it has her supersoldier PI heroine struggling heroically to keep her enlightened employers from trampling all over all over the culture of the impoverished slumdweller society that she grew up in. It's not 100% MilSF but it is a Baen book, so that's something at least.
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Jun 17, 2015 13:10
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Is Baen a cookie-cutter publisher or something? What is a Baen book? I thought Asaro was supposed to be a good author?Fried Chicken posted:Who the hell taught you history? No, we did not let them keep their way of life, we destroyed their way of life, genocided them, and shuffled the few remaining ones off into segregated areas away from us where we keep loving them over to this day. 
Drifter fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 17:53
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Drifter posted:Is Baen a cookie-cutter publisher or something? What is a Baen book? I thought Asaro was supposed to be a good author? Baen publishes mostly mil sci-fi and is pretty well known to skew hard to the right even for that genre. The infamous Thomas Kratman and John Ringo ("Let's rejuvenate literally SS soldiers to fight against an alien invasion because modern day Germany is overrun by liberals who just don't cut it" is the plot of one of their books) publish at Baen.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:12
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I'm pretty sure that book was mostly Kratman with Ringo's name slapped on. Kratman's more of a straight-up nazi (now published by Neanderthal-supremacist Theodore Beale, aka Vox Day!) while Ringo is terrifying for entirely different reasons and a much nicer person by comparison. That is really not a compliment to Ringo. ~now playing: crüxshadows - winterborn~ Baen is a weird company. They publish some decent authors and books, not just crazed far-right milsf, but their company brand is the crazy stuff.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:24
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ArchangeI posted:("Let's rejuvenate literally SS soldiers to fight against an alien invasion because modern day Germany is overrun by liberals who just don't cut it" is the plot of one of their books) It's a contentious book but that's not the plot. It's more like "literally everyone else is either dead or already fighting, we're desperate enough to rejuvenate literal nazis so aliens don't eat everyone".
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Jun 17, 2015 19:26
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I mean, Ringo will write about how his protagonist (him) is all pent-up due to fighting and needs to rape something, so he goes and gets a literal child prostitute and rapes her (that he does so roughly and painfully is mentioned) and then buys her to give her a better, free life (but still has to rape her first) and then goes to a political thing and meets a military guy who likes cruxshadows and dresses gothy on occasion and then the terrorists are going to nuke them so he has to save the day, But he's nowhere near as creepy a fucker as SS-tank-ai-orgasms-by-killing Kratman. 90s Cringe Rock fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 19:35
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chrisoya posted:I mean, Ringo will write about how his protagonist (him) is all pent-up due to fighting and needs to rape something, so he goes and gets a literal child prostitute and rapes her (that he does so roughly and painfully is mentioned) and then buys her to give her a better, free life (but still has to rape her first) and then goes to a political thing and meets a military guy who likes cruxshadows and dresses gothy on occasion and then the terrorists are going to nuke them so he has to save the day, Ringo is weird and I can't figure him out. Yeah, all that creepy poo poo he actually wrote, but it all happens in one of his book series. The others are mostly free of that poo poo (the Aldenata ones have the blondes in heat thing but it's mentioned maybe twice and never actually means anything to the plot), but hes still the guy ho wrote the Ghost books. I just don't get it. quote:But he's nowhere near as creepy a fucker as Kratman. Yeah, Kratman is pretty drat bad. And I agree that Watch on the Rhine is pretty much him with Ringo's name slapped on.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:38
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Watch on the Rhine is Ringo holding him back. I wouldn't have believed that, but then I read Muslims doing space-9/11 on space skyscrapers with space blimps, and a random Muslim in the towers who wasn't even involved cackling evilly as the airship draws closer and the flames rage higher. Check your Barn authors carefully. I mean, they publish Bujold. They publish Eric "Socialist Workers Party" Flint, Mercedes Lackey... and Newt Gingrich. 90s Cringe Rock fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 19:42
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WarLocke posted:It's a contentious book but that's not the plot. It's more like "literally everyone else is either dead or already fighting, we're desperate enough to rejuvenate literal nazis so aliens don't eat everyone". That excuse would work better if the SS were less sympathetically portrayed. I mean, Christ, there's a throwaway line later on about them starting to take in Jewish recruits. 
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Jun 17, 2015 19:53
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WarLocke posted:It's a contentious book but that's not the plot. It's more like "literally everyone else is either dead or already fighting, we're desperate enough to rejuvenate literal nazis so aliens don't eat everyone". No, it was literally to create an elite unit for morale purposes. They could have rejuvenated Nazis and put them into regular units but nope, we gotta recreate the SS. Plus it was done well before the invasion started, so it wasn't even scrapping the barrel.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:13
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Baen is weird not so much for the fact that it's almost entirely far-right military SF stuff, but that they also have self-identifying communist Eric Flint as a member of their publishing stable.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:38
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Baen sticks out not for the fact it publishes far right wing MilSF, but for the fact that it publishes really bad far right wing MilSF. Someone having a character arc and learning something from their struggle is pretty rare in most of the work from their headliners. The protagonists are usually the Emperors of Everything who prove it through combat, rather than the experience of combat shaping them as people. Honestly it's less MilSF than power fantasy. And hey, that's a profitable niche. But it makes them very distinct when you go to compare, say, S&S's Karen Traviss against Baen's John Ringo.
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Jun 17, 2015 21:01
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Fried Chicken posted:But it makes them very distinct when you go to compare, say, S&S's Karen Traviss against Baen's John Ringo. I've only read Traviss's Star Wars Republic Commando stuff, but other than the fact she writes from the view of ostensibly common soldiers (except they're not because they're super elite due to their training and pure ethnic warrior genes) I don't really see much difference between her and Ringo. Just replace "liberal" with "Jedi".
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Jun 17, 2015 21:16
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Chairman Capone posted:I've only read Traviss's Star Wars Republic Commando stuff, but other than the fact she writes from the view of ostensibly common soldiers (except they're not because they're super elite due to their training and pure ethnic warrior genes) I don't really see much difference between her and Ringo. Just replace "liberal" with "Jedi". I can look at Hard Contact and see 4 different characters taking something new from that experience, changing as a person, and those changes carrying on into Triple Zero. Mike learned nothing in A Hymn Before Battle and certainly nothing that carried into Gust Front.
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Jun 17, 2015 21:19
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Chairman Capone posted:I've only read Traviss's Star Wars Republic Commando stuff, but other than the fact she writes from the view of ostensibly common soldiers (except they're not because they're super elite due to their training and pure ethnic warrior genes) I don't really see much difference between her and Ringo. Just replace "liberal" with "Jedi". Yeah Traviss isn't exactly an example of a good author. Maybe her non-Star Wars stuff is better, I haven't read it, but her SW stuff comes across as having a distinct bias. She really hates the idea of Jedi, they're basically stand-ins for 'useless liberals' in her stuff.
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Jun 17, 2015 22:13
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I have technically been published by Baen  They picked up this thing in their new Year's Best Military SF and Space Opera, which is not much in line with their, uh, archetypical politics. I really love FreeSpace 2.The guy who founded Tor Books is some kind of stakeholder in Baen, which is of interest if you're following recent publishing drama, I guess.
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Jun 18, 2015 02:54
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Fried Chicken posted:I can look at Hard Contact and see 4 different characters taking something new from that experience, changing as a person, and those changes carrying on into Triple Zero. Mike learned nothing in A Hymn Before Battle and certainly nothing that carried into Gust Front.
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Jun 18, 2015 04:25
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General Battuta posted:I have technically been published by Baen edit: “It’s a war. Monsters win.” Have you read much Hammer's Slammers stuff? Because this is pretty much the guiding philosophy of those stories, so maybe it's not such a surprise that Baen published you. quote:"Via," Pritchard snapped, "you're so proud about blowing away one of the poor bastards who hired us to save 'em?" Miss-Bomarc fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 04:26
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I've recently picked up the Vorkosigan saga, and blown through two pre-Miles books. I get a good feeling from these.  Please tell me that the goon consensus of these books, is that they are worth reading. I've easily ignored series talked about ITT before, if enough people have talked them down.
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Jun 18, 2015 12:48
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You agree with the goonsensus. I mean I've read the occasional negative post about it but mostly everyone recommends Vorkosigan if anyone asks for anything even remotely like it.
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Jun 18, 2015 13:38
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Daktari posted:I've recently picked up the Vorkosigan saga, and blown through two pre-Miles books. I get a good feeling from these. Get ready for a big step up. Miles brings a manic energy to his stories that Bujold's other books, while competent enough, feel slightly hollow without. The Warrior's Apprentice is a hell of a character intro.
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Jun 18, 2015 13:56
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Miss-Bomarc posted:“It’s a war. Monsters win.” I think 'do monsters win more, is that good, and what are the costs of believing it's true?' is more or less the central question of post-Vietnam military SF.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:20
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General Battuta posted:I think 'do monsters win more, is that good, and what are the costs of believing it's true?' is more or less the central question of post-Vietnam military SF. (Not published by Baen.) Otherwise it's pew pew lasers or America, gently caress Ya.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:34
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Drifter posted:Is Baen a cookie-cutter publisher or something? What is a Baen book? I thought Asaro was supposed to be a good author? Baen (the publisher) doesn't really have a political slant, but they do have a strong bias towards the mindless action end of things. So a Baen book is usually morally uncomplicated, has lots of violence and doesn't have great prose. Not all Baen books are that way (Bujold managed to publish at least one straight up romance novel in her Vorkosagian series) but the substantial majority of them are. Also they have a house style for cover art and it is loving dire. WarLocke posted:Ringo is weird and I can't figure him out. Yeah, all that creepy poo poo he actually wrote, but it all happens in one of his book series. The others are mostly free of that poo poo (the Aldenata ones have the blondes in heat thing but it's mentioned maybe twice and never actually means anything to the plot), but hes still the guy ho wrote the Ghost books. I just don't get it. The Ghost series was originally never meant to be printed. It was just him writing down fantasies that he didn't think were fit for public consumption. But fans of his on a message board talked him into releasing it, and it turns out people want to read about wannabe rapists screwing child prostitutes and killing foreigners.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:48
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I just finished the four books in the Count to a Trillion series by John C Wright. I really dig them, though they're ridiculously complicated. Unfortunately John C Wright is a crazy homophobe or something too.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:56
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n4 posted:I just finished the four books in the Count to a Trillion series by John C Wright. I really dig them, though they're ridiculously complicated. Unfortunately John C Wright is a crazy homophobe or something too. If you haven't read them, his Golden Age trilogy is also really entertaining. They're really cool.
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Jun 18, 2015 17:03
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Drifter posted:If you haven't read them, his Golden Age trilogy is also really entertaining. They're really cool. If you are an Ayn Rand fan. Edit: it is possible that the whole thing was a deep troll on objectivism, but poe's law may apply. Spazzle fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 17:53
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No, Wright was a crazy Randian, he just used to keep it somewhat contained and be slightly self-deprecating. He converted to Jesus Extreme and now he rants about Korrasami.
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Jun 18, 2015 17:59
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chrisoya posted:No, Wright was a crazy Randian, he just used to keep it somewhat contained and be slightly self-deprecating. He converted to Jesus Extreme and now he rants about Korrasami. The funny thing about the golden age is that it is entirely run by captains of industry who get their wealth from perpetual patents to technology given to them by bored AI. The place is a literal unending dystopian nightmare presented as a utopia.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:07
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Any series like Game of Thrones in space? Google throws up The Expanse series which is nothing loving like GoT. Dune is probably the closest I've read and I liked the concept they reworked into Jupiter Ascending - so basically any powerful families/houses fighting over a resource or a throne in a space opera setting (with lots of grey characters and deaths)? From looking around, there doesn't seem to be anything, which is kinda surprising, it's a decent concept to run with.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:19
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Jim Baen's publishing motto was "if it sells, I'll sell it" and that is why their stable of authors and the output therein seems to be so scattered from far-left to far-right to far-out to far-far-away-from-me-at-all-costs. Pulpy poo poo that'll sell? Done! Giant space tanks? Sold! Author wants to write a high fantasy series even though it doesn't sell for poo poo compared to his excel charts in space? Well, it still sells, so whatever I guess! also from what I heard he was really supportive for a lot of the Baen regular authors so I have to respect that even if I wish their entire cover art team would suddenly disappear into another dimension. e: the comparison of Traviss to Ringo had me laughing though. Both of them are terrible for different reasons. Psion fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 19:16
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Spazzle posted:The funny thing about the golden age is that it is entirely run by captains of industry who get their wealth from perpetual patents to technology given to them by bored AI. The place is a literal unending dystopian nightmare presented as a utopia.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:23
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WarLocke posted:Yeah Traviss isn't exactly an example of a good author. Miss-Bomarc posted:Keep reading the Republic Commando series. It turns into a very interesting Dark Side apologia. I'm not sure that's what Traviss actually wanted to do, which makes the whole thing even more interesting. Psion posted:e: the comparison of Traviss to Ringo had me laughing though. Both of them are terrible for different reasons. Take his self insert Mike. He starts out an officer with experience leading people who knows he has to make "hard choices" others refuse to make and that power armor is great when others think it is a waste. And at the end of his story, where is the character? Well he is now and officer leading people making hard choices and showing how awesome power armor is. There is no lesson learned, no understanding gained, no new traits developed. He knew if he as allowed to cut loose he would show everyone what a power armor wearing badass he was with laser shows and 70s power ballads in the background, and by the end of the story that is literally the case.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:40
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