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gonadic io
Feb 16, 2011

>>=
also when you do give me wrong data, which there's no compiler-enforced way of checking, i'll probably appear to work fine and you'll only find out when a client gets garbage data and complains if you're lucky, or when you get hacked due to buffer overflow/memory access errors if you're unlucky

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qntm
Jun 17, 2009
I'm a C API, and this is Jackass

suffix
Jul 27, 2013

Wheeee!

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

maybe i'm stupid but how would tco be unpythonic when it's basically an implementation optimization?

iirc the main argument against it is it fucks up the stack trace

which merits consideration, but doesn't seem so bad if you require programmers to mark the tail calls, which is the best way to do it anyway

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

how come c apis are so hard

http://wayland.freedesktop.org/docs/html/apb.html

i just want to move some windows around

a C API doesn't have to be so hard

it just looks like the Wayland people just didn't bother to abstract their wire protocol from their API

they should have designed their API in terms of windows/surfaces/layers and events, and then defined the mapping between that API and their wire protocol separately (even if the mapping is 1:1). that way people who just want to use the API don't have to even read about protocol details.

the API there reminds me a bit of the Amiga/SunView/Xt APIs where you only have a couple of “do_something(int action, ...)” functions in the whole API and everything else is done by calling those with different combinations of varargs. contrast to the classic Mac OS or Win16/Win32 APIs (which copied this style from the Mac), where everything you can do has a separate and clear and much more directly object-oriented API.

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Fun Shoe
Rust seems like a really neat lang but is it as thin on "batteries included" or libraries as it seems?

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

Rust seems like a really neat lang but is it as thin on "batteries included" or libraries as it seems?

yes. hopefully that part gets better

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

does anybody actually use julia yet

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:

yet?

MrMoo
Sep 14, 2000

I keep asking in financial land, most people haven't heard of it. I was pointed to OpenCPU for R which is pretty nifty, one ETF company adores it.

pram
Jun 10, 2001
https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=1E5AA35A965D3234!26479&ithint=file%2cdocx&app=Word&authkey=!AHbAQ1i_GgwNxJY

silverlight program manager says .NET is dying. time to pack it up gents

Soricidus
Oct 21, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill

gonadic io posted:

hi i'm a c api, please give me three void pointers, and their lengths. i will fill one of them with data and read from the other two. if any of the lengths are wrong, or any of the data uninitialised, or the wrong type pre-casting, you're absolutely hosed.

text me

Blinkz0rz
May 27, 2001

MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS

lmao

quote:

If you’re into client-side web development there’s a huge boom in “HTML5” technologies and Javascript skills have never been in more demand. For server-side web development Ruby and Python are still going strong and Node.js is picking up serious steam.

Catalyst-proof
May 11, 2011

better waste some time with you

when was this written? 2006? "HTML5". node js picking up steam!

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

well poo poo now what do we learn, Haskell???

Valeyard
Mar 30, 2012


Grimey Drawer

gently caress yeah

pram
Jun 10, 2001
you know what i just noticed. windows 8 was released october 2012 lol

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

wasnt there talk in this or a parallel thread re: how those graphs change if you add .net

Soricidus
Oct 21, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill
is tiobe still dumb and utterly meaningless or have they improved it

Zlodo
Nov 25, 2006

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

how come c apis are so hard

because they are made by the kind of people who decide to use C

Dessert Rose
May 17, 2004

awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

pram posted:

you know what i just noticed. windows 8 was released october 2012 lol



my decision to move to the part of my team that works in c++ looks better all the time

on the other hand, c++ :sigh:

Zlodo
Nov 25, 2006

Dessert Rose posted:

my decision to move to the part of my team that works in c++ looks better all the time

on the other hand, c++ :sigh:

if you reject every bad practice inherited from C, C++ becomes awesome

Soricidus
Oct 21, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill

Zlodo posted:

if you reject every bad practice inherited from C, C++ becomes awesome

unfortunately this is impossible because c++ doesn't provide any alternative to the few parts of c that are actually bad, such as the textual-inclusion header system and the awful type declaration syntax

Dessert Rose
May 17, 2004

awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...
idk the type decl syntax doesn't seem super awful to me. auto goes a long way

like my team is actively moving code to modern c++ standards as we touch it, everyone involved is super happy about all the new features. i'm learning tons from massive code reviews of my teammates modernizing 10-year-old code (and we're even finding bugs when we do it!)

in a couple of years i hope to be almost as good in c++ as i am with c#. it already feels much easier to express ideas in the language than it did six months ago so i think it's really helping me grow

AWWNAW
Dec 30, 2008

Dessert Rose posted:

idk the type decl syntax doesn't seem super awful to me. auto goes a long way

like my team is actively moving code to modern c++ standards as we touch it, everyone involved is super happy about all the new features. i'm learning tons from massive code reviews of my teammates modernizing 10-year-old code (and we're even finding bugs when we do it!)

in a couple of years i hope to be almost as good in c++ as i am with c#. it already feels much easier to express ideas in the language than it did six months ago so i think it's really helping me grow

I wanna make this transition too for some reason but I have no real opportunity to besides trying to get good at modern C++ on my own time and gently caress that really. I haven't touched C++ since visual studio 6 and MFC

Dessert Rose
May 17, 2004

awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...
it's worth getting good enough at it to find a job in it, and of course once you work in something every day you get better at it way way faster.

c++ is going to be around for a long long time. rust wants to replace it but that isnt going to happen for decades. by the time rust gains any foothold worth speaking about all the useful concepts will be glued onto c++.

it also has the added bonus that most new cs grads are going to look down their noses at c++ jobs because it's old and icky and doesn't shield them from all that nasty "memory management" stuff that they have gotten to essentially ignore.

it's also super useful for embedded programming because you only pay for the abstractions you actually use (in theory, anyway), so you get to pick and choose what you want to spend your precious storage/memory/cpu cycles on, whereas using c you have had the choice made for you: you get nothing, and you'll like it

you could make worse investments of your time than learning c++ if you want to advance your career and your understanding of programming.

Dessert Rose
May 17, 2004

awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...
also all the really fun poo poo is written in c++, assuming you think optimizing your string classes to save 8 bytes per instance is fun

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

Dessert Rose posted:

also all the really fun poo poo is written in c++, assuming you think optimizing your string classes to save 8 bytes per instance is fun

sproingggg

im hard

VikingofRock
Aug 24, 2008




Soricidus posted:

unfortunately this is impossible because c++ doesn't provide any alternative to the few parts of c that are actually bad, such as the textual-inclusion header system and the awful type declaration syntax

actually, if you just wait until c++17 TR1,

DONT THREAD ON ME
Oct 1, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
Floss Finder
The best use of cpp is to write better languages to use

Dessert Rose
May 17, 2004

awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

VikingofRock posted:

actually, if you just wait until c++17 TR1,

and then wait for your compiler to implement it,

(ms' compiler is just now finishing up c++11 support. constexpr is still unimplemented, lol)

VikingofRock
Aug 24, 2008




Dessert Rose posted:

(ms' compiler is just now finishing up c++11 support. constexpr is still unimplemented, lol)

Oh my god that's humiliating. I just checked and gcc has had constexpr support since 2011; clang since 2012.

Dessert Rose
May 17, 2004

awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

VikingofRock posted:

Oh my god that's humiliating. I just checked and gcc has had constexpr support since 2011; clang since 2012.

i think we got variadic templates, like, this year

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

Maybe use a real compiler and not Microsofts abortion

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

i thought i heard ms is going to incorporate clang into vs somehow

pram
Jun 10, 2001

Valeyard posted:

try out RequireJS and let us know how it works because i want to know too

i ended up doing this with gulp, which i like a lot. basically it has a plugin to grab all your bower deps from the json file and then you can concat/minify them

code:
var gulp = require('gulp')
var concat = require('gulp-concat')
var uglify = require('gulp-uglify');
var bowerMain = require('bower-main');

var bowerMainJavaScriptFiles = bowerMain('js', 'min.js');

gulp.task('default', ['bower', 'build']);

gulp.task('bower', function() {
    gulp.src(bowerMainJavaScriptFiles.minified)
        .pipe(gulp.dest('lib'))
});

gulp.task('build', function() {
    gulp.src([
            'lib/*.js',
            'src/*.js'
        ])
        .pipe(concat('whatever.min.js'))
        .pipe(uglify())
        .pipe(gulp.dest('dest'))
});

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006
require.js has a tool that will do that for you based on ur requires + other stuff.

Dessert Rose
May 17, 2004

awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

Bloody posted:

Maybe use a real compiler and not Microsofts abortion

short of this happening:

fritz posted:

i thought i heard ms is going to incorporate clang into vs somehow

i'm pretty much stuck using our own tools

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

Dessert Rose posted:

short of this happening:


i'm pretty much stuck using our own tools

Oh you work for Microsoft

Dessert Rose
May 17, 2004

awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

Bloody posted:

Oh you work for Microsoft

yeah, you can update your yospos.xls

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MeruFM
Jul 27, 2010
browserify is pretty good if you're already using gulp and minifying all js to a single file.

you can pretend its a real language with imports

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