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Fried Chicken posted:My understanding was that the UK was recreating the Economic League's index card system to target and crush "troublemakers" (read as: employees who know their rights) with the force of the state behind it now, not that they were using advanced data mining to identify threats and weighting them appropriately with the focus on harm reduction rather than class based property protection, Yeah, I just mentioned they were trying it - not that it isn't completely bollocks'd. Front page content  I'm a trans-ethnic Briton. Mc Do Well fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jun 19, 2015 |
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Jun 19, 2015 01:44
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site posted:Do we know it was an assassination? I mean, obviously I'm not trying to belittle what happened, but was the senator the target or was he just there? I haven't heard anything either way on that point. I recall reading somewhere that was was specifically asking for the pastor when he arrived, though I've been reading way too much to remember where. If true, it certainly lines up with him choosing such a conspicuous target (the church, at least), and his alleged comments to his roommate. Whether we'll ever get true confirmation I guess depends on him. I suspect the conspiracy theories will still be flung around constantly and certain folks will continue to pretend it was an attack on christianity out of convenience.
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Jun 19, 2015 01:47
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site posted:Do we know it was an assassination? I mean, obviously I'm not trying to belittle what happened, but was the senator the target or was he just there? I haven't heard anything either way on that point. I'm going with targeting a prominent symbol of black freedom and leadership to undercut the power base of a locally prominent black leader at an event dealing with resistance to black oppression, with the knowledge that there is a high probability said black leader will be there to be killed, all for the greater goal of elimination black leaders and sources of organized power and leverage the resulting racial fear to a political advantage as being close enough to qualify for the term assassination. You are completely welcome to disagree, I am drunk after all (and if that comes off as me being a snide rear end in a top hat rather than with the sincerity I mean it, consider my statement re: drunkenness)
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Jun 19, 2015 01:50
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Looks like Roof waived his right to an attorney, which means that he may plan on representing himself. Which would certainly be interesting to witness. Also, if he was not legally allowed to purchase a firearm (which may or may not have been the case, idk), could his dad be criminally liable for giving the gun to him? sexy fucking muskrat fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Jun 19, 2015 |
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Jun 19, 2015 01:51
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Mr Jaunts posted:Looks like Roof waived his right to an attorney, which means that he may represent himself. Which would certainly be interesting to witness. If they charge him with terrorism like they should (it was an act to create fear he hoped would be politically leveraged towards his goal) then yes, the father would be open to being charged with material assistance to terrorism. If they don't then I think he is safe, but that's just the word of a guy in the Internet
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Jun 19, 2015 01:53
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Finally, something pleasant about this whole awful situation.  I assume if he's representing himself we're going be subjected to long winded rants about his ideology and manifesto?
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Jun 19, 2015 01:55
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Klaus88 posted:Finally, something pleasant about this whole awful situation. Luckily this dude doesn't seem to be that well versed, so no 130 page PDF manifestos of PUA-lite garbage. Easy homework!
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Jun 19, 2015 02:00
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Fried Chicken posted:Better mental health care (and its entwined cousin of domestic violence assistance care) wouldn't touch this case, but it would vastly reduce other classes of gun violence. I need to add saying this guy needed mental health has the reverse effect of associating mental health issues as something only for crazy people when there's already a stigma to be fought in that realm as well.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:02
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Mr Jaunts posted:Looks like Roof waived his right to an attorney, which means that he may plan on representing himself. Which would certainly be interesting to witness. Roof had already been convicted of felony possession of LSD and trespassing, and thus was legally barred from owning a firearm in the United States under any circumstances. His father bought the pistol for him as a gift; buying a gun for someone not legally allowed to own one is a straw purchase, also a felony. Even if his son hadn't committed an act of white supremacist terrorism with that pistol, his father would be criminally liable just for giving the gun to him.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:10
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chitoryu12 posted:Roof had already been convicted of felony possession of LSD and trespassing, and thus was legally barred from owning a firearm in the United States under any circumstances. His father bought the pistol for him as a gift; buying a gun for someone not legally allowed to own one is a straw purchase, also a felony. What are the odds that this will be glossed over?
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Jun 19, 2015 02:14
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The Aardvark posted:What are the odds that this will be glossed over? Hasn't the family suffered enough?
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Jun 19, 2015 02:14
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chitoryu12 posted:Roof had already been convicted of felony possession of LSD and trespassing, and thus was legally barred from owning a firearm in the United States under any circumstances. His father bought the pistol for him as a gift; buying a gun for someone not legally allowed to own one is a straw purchase, also a felony. Of LSD? Christ, you'd think he'd be a hippy or something. The Aardvark posted:What are the odds that this will be glossed over? Hopefully slim
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Jun 19, 2015 02:16
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The Aardvark posted:What are the odds that this will be glossed over? Yeah, I'm not entirely confident that the father will get what's coming to him. But there's always hope. site posted:Of LSD? Christ, you'd think he'd be a hippy or something. Well he seemed like such a normal young man, but he was charged with possessing suboxone, not LSD. Also, apparently there was a custody dispute over him recently. sexy fucking muskrat fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jun 19, 2015 |
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Jun 19, 2015 02:16
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The Aardvark posted:What are the odds that this will be glossed over? i think it's actually likely something happens to him, his son assassinated a senator i only think this cause i'm pretty sure that means this is being handled as a federal case not a state case but i already proved i don't understand the US court system once today so it's pretty likely i'm dumb to think that is real or matters
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Jun 19, 2015 02:22
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Mr Jaunts posted:Looks like Roof waived his right to an attorney, which means that he may plan on representing himself. Which would certainly be interesting to witness. I really hope he gets on trial and just demands to take the stand then proceeds to spew out the most token right wing tea party racist poo poo possible while name dropping how his eyes were opened thanks to people like Beck and Limbaugh and fellow posters on /r/coontown or some other dark corner of reddit. This kid wants to die for the cause so I'm really hoping he's kept confined while awaiting trial because if he's in with gen pop I give it 24 hours tops before he starts poo poo with the biggest black guy he can find in the hopes of getting beaten to death. chitoryu12 posted:Roof had already been convicted of felony possession of LSD and trespassing, and thus was legally barred from owning a firearm in the United States under any circumstances. His father bought the pistol for him as a gift; buying a gun for someone not legally allowed to own one is a straw purchase, also a felony. Can we send the father to prison as well then? Please? He deserves at least that much if he bought a gun for his kid who couldn't legally own one. Trabisnikof posted:Hasn't the family suffered enough? Not at all if this poo poo's true. Mr Jaunts posted:Yeah, I'm not entirely confident that the father will get what's coming to him. But there's always hope. If he illegally armed his son who then murdered a state senator then he's a pretty slam dunk conviction any Tough On Crime prosecutor would love to get their hands on.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:22
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Klaus88 posted:Finally, something pleasant about this whole awful situation. Absodamnlutely. He's pulling a Timothy McVeigh. Turn his trial into a big show to "educate" all the other whites, and have the government kill him to make his "martyrdom" "inspire" RaHoWa. And, of course, everyone is going to see what a repellent, disgusting ideology he's promoting, and marginalize it until it grows back up to a fever pitch in another 20 years or so. 
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Jun 19, 2015 02:23
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forbidden lesbian posted:i think it's actually likely something happens to him, his son assassinated a senator It was a state level senator, not a federal senator. But I haven't heard yet that federal charges are being filed against this guy, though there was word that the FBI was involved, so it's possible.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:24
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It was a state level senator, not a federal senator. But I haven't heard yet that federal charges are being filed against this guy, though there was word that the FBI was involved, so it's possible. It would be the only way he would be convicted of a hate crime.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:25
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Fried Chicken posted:I'm going with targeting a prominent symbol of black freedom and leadership to undercut the power base of a locally prominent black leader at an event dealing with resistance to black oppression, with the knowledge that there is a high probability said black leader will be there to be killed, all for the greater goal of elimination black leaders and sources of organized power and leverage the resulting racial fear to a political advantage as being close enough to qualify for the term assassination. You are completely welcome to disagree, I am drunk after all (and if that comes off as me being a snide rear end in a top hat rather than with the sincerity I mean it, consider my statement re: drunkenness) All of his friend and relatives should be arrested immediately.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:26
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chitoryu12 posted:Roof had already been convicted of felony possession of LSD and trespassing, and thus was legally barred from owning a firearm in the United States under any circumstances. His father bought the pistol for him as a gift; buying a gun for someone not legally allowed to own one is a straw purchase, also a felony. But only if his dad knew about the conviction and/or substance abuse. If I gift a gun to someone without knowledge that they are prohibited it's not a crime. If you give a gun to a known drug addict or terrorist, a crime. If you gift a gun to someone you honestly believe is legally allowed to own a gun and then they go all terrorist, not illegal.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:27
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mlmp08 posted:But only if his dad knew about the conviction and/or substance abuse. If I gift a gun to someone without knowledge that they are prohibited it's not a crime. His dad is lying.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:28
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Or do you think white supremacist terrorists just form out of the ether.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:29
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mlmp08 posted:But only if his dad knew about the conviction and/or substance abuse. If I gift a gun to someone without knowledge that they are prohibited it's not a crime. I also heard that a wife and husband can't be charged of the same crime; I wonder if that works for a father and son.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:30
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It was a state level senator, not a federal senator. But I haven't heard yet that federal charges are being filed against this guy, though there was word that the FBI was involved, so it's possible. i mean, if they are looking at this as an act of terrorism than certainly the federal government would be involved.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:30
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I'm sure the dad who raised and armed a terrorist weapon is completely innocent.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:31
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Anime Curator posted:i mean, if they are looking at this as an act of terrorism than certainly the federal government would be involved. It's a clear act of domestic terrorism as defined by the patriot act.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:35
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i don't think the dad will get away with a "didn't know" excuse. he's going to be investigated too.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:35
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The Aardvark posted:What are the odds that this will be glossed over? Quite slim, I'm guessing. It would have been a felony no matter what, but his felony directly facilitated a terrorist attack that included the assassination of a state senator. The guy who sold Harris & Klebold the DC-9 for the Columbine Massacre was given 6 years for it; their friend who bought the shotguns and Hi-Point carbine only avoided prison time by cooperating with the authorities. Regardless of the guy's cooperation, his mass murder included a politician. He'll be very, very lucky to avoid going up the creek.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:35
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Anime Curator posted:i don't think the dad will get away with a "didn't know" excuse. he's going to be investigated too. I'm sure he'll be investigated! Might even face probation or a fine!
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Jun 19, 2015 02:36
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Trabisnikof posted:I'm sure he'll be investigated! Might even face probation or a fine! alright.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:38
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Why weren't dad and Roof ready investigated. Why was there a serious breech in anti terror intelligence.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:38
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euphronius posted:All of his friend and relatives should be arrested immediately. euphronius posted:It's a clear act of domestic terrorism as defined by the patriot act. so should they also have sent all of the tsarnaev family and friends to supermax or...?
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Jun 19, 2015 02:38
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uncurable mlady posted:so should they also have sent all of the tsarnaev family and friends to supermax or...? Did they arm them?
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Jun 19, 2015 02:39
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Evil Fluffy posted:I really hope he gets on trial and just demands to take the stand then proceeds to spew out the most token right wing tea party racist poo poo possible while name dropping how his eyes were opened thanks to people like Beck and Limbaugh and fellow posters on /r/coontown or some other dark corner of reddit. Ceiling fan posted:Absodamnlutely. He's pulling a Timothy McVeigh. Turn his trial into a big show to "educate" all the other whites, and have the government kill him to make his "martyrdom" "inspire" RaHoWa. And, of course, everyone is going to see what a repellent, disgusting ideology he's promoting, and marginalize it until it grows back up to a fever pitch in another 20 years or so.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:40
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But also yes the brother was an accomplice and died.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:40
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chitoryu12 posted:Quite slim, I'm guessing. It would have been a felony no matter what, but his felony directly facilitated a terrorist attack that included the assassination of a state senator. The guy who sold Harris & Klebold the DC-9 for the Columbine Massacre was given 6 years for it; their friend who bought the shotguns and Hi-Point carbine only avoided prison time by cooperating with the authorities. I haven't actually seen anything officially stating that he's going to be charged with a terrorism offense or under terrorism statutes. He *should* be but . . .
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Jun 19, 2015 02:40
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euphronius posted:Did they arm them? im sure in some way they contributed to the radicalization of tamerlan
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Jun 19, 2015 02:40
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uncurable mlady posted:im sure in some way they contributed to the radicalization of tamerlan As I mentioned yes the brother.
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Jun 19, 2015 02:41
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i mean this seems like more of a hate crime than domestic terrorism although I guess the line gets kinda blurry since the hate crime statutes have some stuff in them about terrorizing people or w/e
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Jun 19, 2015 02:42
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Apologies if already posted, NRA board member with a hot take: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/06/18/3671649/nra-board-member-blames-charleston-victim-death/
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Jun 19, 2015 02:42
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