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Mister Sinewave posted:Anyway, it is a rewarding game once it's going. Forge War remains loving amazing. I got a two player short game down to a clean 50 minutes last night. Gearing up for a 3 player epic game in a couple weeks.
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Jun 19, 2015 07:30
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If the point is "Wil Wheaton shouldn't make a TV show if he can't do everything himself," then no one should make any TV shows ever. 
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Jun 19, 2015 07:31
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Gutter Owl posted:If the point is "Wil Wheaton shouldn't make a TV show if he can't do everything himself," then no one should make any TV shows ever. The point is that Tabletop is very obviously biting off more than they can chew, and rather than addressing the problem, there seems to be a lot of mud-slinging and blame-gaming going on.
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Jun 19, 2015 07:34
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I think the point is "when you present yourself as a gateway to a hobby, you have a responsibility to actually present that hobby properly". It'd be like if a cooking show host told you a completely worthless, bullshit recipe, and then blamed "those culinary snobs".
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Jun 19, 2015 07:35
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Gutter Owl posted:If the point is "Wil Wheaton shouldn't make a TV show if he can't do everything himself," then no one should make any TV shows ever. The point is "You shouldn't host a TV show on a topic if you can't take 30 seconds to review the topic before the show." No one said he should do the camera work, editing, music, etc. But he is the host of a board game show so he should have a basic grasp of the rules (which he butchers in every episode). If he really cared so much about the drat project you'd think he's be invested enough to make sure the games are played correctly. This is a game he has promoted several times and SHOULD know how to play. I guess it's hard to read rule books when your head is so far up your own rear end no light can enter.
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Jun 19, 2015 07:40
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I got my wife into playing board games with me thanks to Pandemic and Agricola:ACBAS. She also likes Pillars of the Earth and Keyflower. So after looking for a 2-player game with a similar theme I stumbled upon Fields of Arle. Could this be something for us? Or could it possibly be too complex? She loves the farming aspect of ACBAS and I thought about just getting the Gric but I read many times that it can be a very punishing game. And that could be a turn off for her. So how forgiving is Fields of Arle? And is it any good?
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Jun 19, 2015 07:42
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He hired a guy specifically to make sure they followed the rules and this guy somehow couldn't even get them to play loving Coup correctly. I just don't really understand how that happens if you have any hiring standards whatsoever, like did the criteria for employment even include knowing the rules to games? How many mistakes is he allowed to make before you realise he's become incompetent or stopped giving a poo poo? If you hire someone to make sure the actors are wearing pants on set and end up with this then maybe it's not good enough to go "wow, I trusted that guy completely to make sure I was wearing pants". Wil posted on Reddit that part of the problem is they're now showcasing games he's only played a handful of times, which suggests that he either needs to put more of his time in to actually being "the board game celebrity" or he should schedule less games. He's 3 seasons, $1.5 M in crowdfunding and a lot of press in to this role. Do it right.
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Jun 19, 2015 07:43
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Maybe it's time for Wil to start plugging BGG's vast selection of quick reference sheets. "Did you guys know that for a lot of games you can print out these little cheat sheets for everyone?"
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Jun 19, 2015 07:53
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Selecta84 posted:So how forgiving is Fields of Arle? Very, and very. It's a nice sandbox and not punishing in the slightest. I have this, Agricola, and Caverna, and this has the best (imo) two player experience of them all. The components and art are also fantastic, which helps tie the entire game together into an enjoyable two player farm/town builder.
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Jun 19, 2015 07:54
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Bubble-T posted:this guy somehow couldn't even get them to play loving Coup correctly. This is particularly dumb of the players because the rules are printed on the player cards and it's basic as can be. You don't need a producer, you just glance down at your loving card for 3 seconds. Wil sounds like he wanted to be lazy and was just going through the motions of the games while spending too much time trying to be funny. Selecta84 posted:Fields of Arle. Get it. It's the best Uwe game for 2 IMO. As forgiving as All Creatures.
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Jun 19, 2015 07:55
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Sounds good to me. Seems like I will be ordering this today. Thanks
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Jun 19, 2015 07:56
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To be fair, if the previous post is accurate and the rule they messed up is "if you're not lying, you shuffle the card in a draw a new one," that rule is not on the reference card. To be way less fair, it's one of the core rules and there are only about four of those, so there's no excuse.
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Jun 19, 2015 07:58
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Well in the same episode he said the objective of Love Letter is to find out who is having an affair with the princess. That's not misinterpreting rules, that's just making poo poo up.
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Jun 19, 2015 08:05
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I have no opinion on Wesley Crusher but I played Viticulture today and liked it, though the winner did a seemingly unthematic strategy of running all tours for the first two years until he built the VP buildings, then toured some more while barely making any wine. He filled one order at the end to push himself to exactly 20 VPs, which made me sad given how the game allowed someone to not even plant grapes for the first two years and still win. Still though, fun and mostly chill game. I like the interaction between players from some of the visitor cards being symbiotic, sort of like Terra Mystica leeching. Build a structure for cheap but someone else gets a VP if you do, etc. And the box is pretty.
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Jun 19, 2015 08:09
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Kai Tave posted:I don't have strong opinions about noted internet celebrity Wil Wheaton but I agree that the way he addressed the situation, by publicly bitching out this rules guru producer, seems like a lovely thing to do. Yeah okay, this really should have been a nice, private firing followed by a better season next year. This isn't great damage control on Wil/G&S's part. But I get riled when goons are like "lol my eleven year old could do Wil's job, why doesn't he read the rulebooks between takes?" Because whether or not you like Wil's cheeseball nerdbait persona, being on camera takes a lot of effort and energy. He's spending the time between takes doing what actors do between takes: Getting his makeup touched up, rehydrating, freebasing painkillers in the bathroom, crying, et cetera. Bottom Liner posted:This is particularly dumb of the players because the rules are printed on the player cards and it's basic as can be. You don't need a producer, you just glance down at your loving card for 3 seconds. Wil sounds like he wanted to be lazy and was just going through the motions of the games while spending too much time trying to be funny. Don't front like you've never had a brutal day at work, and ended up so brain-fried you spent ten minutes trying to parse a takeout menu. Now imagine that's every day for two weeks. Welcome to professional media production, it's the nature of the business. "Three seconds to look at a card" is a bigger job than it sounds on shoot day. This is why we hire script supervisors and continuity editors and poo poo. Hopefully the next guy they hire will keep a whiskey/coffee ratio of 1:1 or less. gutterdaughter fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Jun 19, 2015 |
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Jun 19, 2015 08:15
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Locke Dunnegan posted:I have no opinion on Wesley Crusher but I played Viticulture today and liked it, though the winner did a seemingly unthematic strategy of running all tours for the first two years until he built the VP buildings, then toured some more while barely making any wine. He filled one order at the end to push himself to exactly 20 VPs, which made me sad given how the game allowed someone to not even plant grapes for the first two years and still win. I don't think it's unthematic, he just pushed his vineyard as a major tourism destination with a handful of carefully cultivated boutique wines.
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Jun 19, 2015 08:15
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Gutter Owl posted:Don't front like you've never had a brutal day at work, and ended up so brain-fried you spent ten minutes trying to parse a takeout menu. Now imagine that's every day for two weeks. Welcome to professional media production, it's the nature of the business. That sounds like a lot of jobs I've had and I didn't have the benefits of legions of adoring internet fans queuing up to stroke my ego and seven figures of crowdfunding money to help smooth things out. If your argument is "Wil's job making videos where he plays boardgames is hard and stressful so cut him some slack" let me go and find where I put the world's tiniest violin so I can play him the saddest song, because I'm perfectly willing to accept that making Tabletop isn't a walk in the park and that's still not a good excuse. Lots of jobs are loving hard, the people doing them still get told to do them right or, y'know, they get fired or replaced, and they certainly don't get to cavalierly and publicly bitch out their coworkers without the risk of repercussions either. Of course in this case Wil is ostensibly the boss so he gets to do things like that, but it's still lovely and "but my job is stressful!" is a weak tea excuse for not being able to actually get the rules of the game you're advertising correct.
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Jun 19, 2015 08:25
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Gutter Owl posted:But I get riled when goons are like "lol my eleven year old could do Wil's job, why doesn't he read the rulebooks between takes?" I thought we were saying an 11 year old could do the producers job of checking the rules.
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Jun 19, 2015 08:30
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Locke Dunnegan posted:I have no opinion on Wesley Crusher but I played Viticulture today and liked it, though the winner did a seemingly unthematic strategy of running all tours for the first two years until he built the VP buildings, then toured some more while barely making any wine. He filled one order at the end to push himself to exactly 20 VPs, which made me sad given how the game allowed someone to not even plant grapes for the first two years and still win. And when I won on Tuesday by a colossal margin (25 versus 18 for the closest other player) it was by filling a 6 blush 5 blush order in year 4 then a 9 sparkling in year 6, making up the balance with order bonuses, a wake-up bonus, a grape sale bonus and a full scale wedding party. There are lots of ways to win in Viticulture, and it's a good thing that they don't all involve making wine.
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Jun 19, 2015 09:02
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Agricola is boring as poo poo. I can barely remain conscious long enough to yell at the person before me for chopping wood to make clogs.
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Jun 19, 2015 09:06
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Gutter Owl posted:Okay, enough of this nonsense. I don't particularly like Table Top, but y'all have clearly never worked on video production. I have, and I do. And let me tell you. Gutter Owl posted:The point is stupid. One person can't do a medium-production TV show by themselves. This is why TV shows are made by crews. This was a crew failure. The Performer isn't supposed to do the Script Supervisor or Continuity Editor's job for him. Gutter Owl posted:If the point is "Wil Wheaton shouldn't make a TV show if he can't do everything himself," then no one should make any TV shows ever. Gutter Owl posted:Yeah okay, this really should have been a nice, private firing followed by a better season next year. This isn't great damage control on Wil/G&S's part. If it would keep you from hyperventilating, I could revise my statement to "If your team cannot successfully play five board games in one day while making a TV show, then your team should not make a TV show that features you playing five board games in one day." It doesn't actually change the point at all, but it seems very important to you.
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Jun 19, 2015 09:42
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It's really simple. loving up the rules in 1 episode of your big budget super popular boardgame gatekeeper show? That's forgiveable. We've all had bad days. loving up the rules in literally every episode for 3 seasons straight? No, gently caress Wil Wheaton, gently caress Tabletop, and gently caress everybody involved.
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Jun 19, 2015 09:57
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I'm actually willing to be wrong about that "literally every episode" wording, but I absolutely guaran-fuckin-tee you that it would be easier and quicker to pick out the miniscule number of times they got the rules right to a game than the opposite.
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Jun 19, 2015 09:58
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What's the worst rules mistakes they've made on Tabletop? I can't stand Wil Wheaton and the show so haven't plumbed the depth, and i'm curious how bad the fuckups they're making are.
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Jun 19, 2015 10:15
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Either Forbidden Desert where they made the game stupidly easy with rule errors or Forune & Glory where they messed up so bad they had to put a disclaimer in the video stating that what they played barely even resembled the actual game. At least that's what Google told me, because gently caress actually watching Wil Wheaton.
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Jun 19, 2015 10:35
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Broken Loose posted:I'm actually willing to be wrong about that "literally every episode" wording, but I absolutely guaran-fuckin-tee you that it would be easier and quicker to pick out the miniscule number of times they got the rules right to a game than the opposite. The only thing they need to do is go over it after and add on rules goofs like Rahdo does. Beyond that the most important part of Tabletop is showing people having a good time playing games.
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Jun 19, 2015 10:36
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I thought it was watching Felicia Day roleplaying a nurse while playing subpar zombie games
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Jun 19, 2015 11:13
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MikeCrotch posted:I thought it was watching Felicia Day roleplaying a nurse while playing subpar zombie games
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Jun 19, 2015 11:16
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Also his guests getting annoyed at Will when he did that really irritating voice in his Epic Spell Wars was also fun. I gain entertainment by watching suffering, which is why I only play economic games where you can lose in the first 5 minutes of the game.
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Jun 19, 2015 11:19
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They got Smallworld wrong in the very first episode (iirc something to do with the number of tokens the giants needed to take over a space). In Gloom they calculated the points wrong on a death despite the rules being right there on the loving card (iirc it was bonus points for specific symbol). In Formula D they got the name of the game wrong and kept calling it Formula Day. Not a rules thing but loving annoying even if it is a jokey reference to Felicia Day. In Munchkin they got it wrong by not setting the game on fire and playing a good game instead. I haven't bothered watching much after the first season but I'd imagine Broken Loose isn't far off with one screw up per episode. Problem being it's hard to notice rules gently caress ups if you haven't played the games.
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Jun 19, 2015 11:20
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Zark the Damned posted:In Gloom they calculated the points wrong on a death despite the rules being right there on the loving card (iirc it was bonus points for specific symbol). Gloom's a story game so I don't really care if they get the rules wrong, it's like making mistakes in the scoring of Tales of the Arabian Nights. Formula D's original name is actually Formula Dé, and that's the name I'm most familiar with, so this wouldn't have seemed out of place at all to me  The rest of your complaints are valid though.
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Jun 19, 2015 11:39
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Gloom's not a story game, it's a basic points scoring game with some take-that mechanics and the twist of transparent cards. If you want to project a story onto that then fine but it still doesn't excuse loving up the scoring. Formula D I'd have less of an issue with except they are explicitly playing the English Printing so should use the English Name. They don't use the foreign names for other games so why that one?
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Jun 19, 2015 12:18
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Megasabin posted:No matter what field you are in, when you publicly throw someone else under a bus it never puts you in a good light. Yeah this. Its your show Weaton, take the responsibility. I don't give a poo poo about your internal problems. Gutter Owl posted:If the point is "Wil Wheaton shouldn't make a TV show if he can't do everything himself," then no one should make any TV shows ever. It is not professional to bitch about his crew in public. The "rules guy" is not a celebrity and did not sign up to be the public face of Tabletop. Fire him if you want but a public shaming is petty. Rutibex fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Jun 19, 2015 |
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Jun 19, 2015 12:21
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Trip Report: Elysium is actually pretty good! I was apprehensive after SUSD's expertly-articulated appraisal of the game as 'just not very fun' but I enjoyed it a lot - it works a bit like Keyflower in practice, where your strategy will fall apart from turn to turn as your opponents ruin all of your carefully planned future actions. Lots of scope with the different gods on offer as well that interact in different ways - I've only played it once but I'm keen to try it again.
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Jun 19, 2015 12:46
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Plot twist: Rules Guy was sabotaging Tabletop on purpose, trying to take it down from the inside!
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Jun 19, 2015 12:50
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so... what did they get so wrong with kingdom builder? because there just aren't many rules. and i don't want to watch it. so please someone tell me thank you
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Jun 19, 2015 13:30
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burger time posted:so... what did they get so wrong with kingdom builder? because there just aren't many rules. and i don't want to watch it. so please someone tell me thank you They were using abilities in the same turn that they gained them instead of waiting a turn. Given how much a game of Kingdom Builder is decided by who can get the most of these abilities, this is a pretty major error that could see one player win the game without anyone else getting a look in. They might have gotten other stuff wrong but that's the main one. I'm not watching an entire episode of Tabletop to find out.
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Jun 19, 2015 13:36
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I'm not going to watch Tabletop but have they at least started actually POINTING OUT their errors in the videos themselves, via annotations or overlay text? I swear we still get people who come here and say they avoided Forbidden Desert because they saw it on Tabletop and it looked too easy (because Wil Wheaton hosed up as usual)
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Jun 19, 2015 13:43
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Zark the Damned posted:Gloom's not a story game, it's a basic points scoring game with some take-that mechanics and the twist of transparent cards. If you want to project a story onto that then fine but it still doesn't excuse loving up the scoring. The rulesheet for gloom actually mentions some stuff about storytelling, and says it's "half the fun" of the game, every card you play has a header on it about what happened etc, make a story out of it to tell and so on. I don't think I could imagine wanting to watch a gloom playthrough if it was just "put this card on that guy" the whole time. It's not a very entertaining game to play or watch.
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Jun 19, 2015 13:52
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Aston posted:Plot twist: Rules Guy was sabotaging Tabletop on purpose, trying to take it down from the inside! This is the theme of the next Plaid Hat game.
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Jun 19, 2015 14:09
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