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Salt Fish posted:When I hear that kind of declaration I personally think that its exactly analogous to a drug user telling people about their big plans to get clean tomorrow. Yeah, I'm shooting heroin right now but it's my last shot and starting tomorrow I'm going to quit and rebuild my life! So I guess methadone == natural gas in this case? 
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Jun 8, 2015 23:41
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Honj Steak posted:The G7 states pledged to decarbonise completely in this century. There could be worse news.
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Jun 9, 2015 00:21
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"We will defeat this problem, I guarantee it, in whatever my life span is plus one year" - G7
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Jun 9, 2015 00:51
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Honj Steak posted:The G7 states pledged to decarbonise completely in this century. There could be worse news. Oh, that's rather ambitious of them.
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Jun 9, 2015 01:57
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Kinda old news, but our old friend Soon is under investigation by the science journals he published in for failing to disclose ties to the oil industry when he published his studies: http://news.sciencemag.org/scientific-community/2015/06/journals-investigate-climate-skeptic-author-s-ties-fossil-fuel-firm-new quote:A half-dozen academic journals are investigating allegations that aerospace engineer Willie Wei-Hock Soon, a prominent skeptic of the idea that humans are contributing to global warming, failed to disclose financial ties to a fossil fuel company in papers they published. And the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) is examining fresh allegations—made in a report released today by the advocacy group Climate Investigations Center (CIC)—that Soon failed to follow disclosure rules in submitting a letter to that journal. The group has also raised questions about whether Soon followed disclosure policies in publishing recent papers in several other journals, including Nature Geoscience. I'm not a fan of Greenpeace, but enemy of my enemy etc. etc.
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Jun 10, 2015 22:44
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/15/pope-francis-destruction-ecosystem-leaked-encyclicalquote:At the start of the draft essay, the pope wrote, the Earth “is protesting for the wrong that we are doing to her, because of the irresponsible use and abuse of the goods that God has placed on her. We have grown up thinking that we were her owners and dominators, authorised to loot her. The violence that exists in the human heart, wounded by sin, is also manifest in the symptoms of illness that we see in the Earth, the water, the air and in living things.” I like this guy, he's already got republicans spinning like tornadoes, can't wait for the final draft and big speech on Thursday.
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Jun 16, 2015 17:52
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The Pope's encyclical on Climate Change has been published. The pope is also tweeting up a storm about it I can't read the document from work, as our company blocks websites hosted outside of 'Murica, but maybe some of you work in places that don't block foreign websites, and can read the document.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:11
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Inglonias posted:The Pope's encyclical on Climate Change has been published. The pope is also tweeting up a storm about it His speech in front of congress is going to be amazing.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:43
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The document is a doozy, both in length and content. I am making my way through the encyclical very slowly, but according to professionals, these are the main points:
EDIT: Some excerpts from what is being described as the darkest and most foreboding encyclical in recent memory. quote:"Doomsday predictions can no longer be met with irony or disdain. We may well be leaving to coming generations debris, desolation and filth. The pace of consumption, waste and environmental change has so stretched the planet’s capacity that our contemporary lifestyle, unsustainable as it is, can only precipitate catastrophes, such as those which even now periodically occur in different areas of the world. The effects of the present imbalance can only be reduced by our decisive action, here and now. We need to reflect on our accountability before those who will have to endure the dire consequences." quote:"We all know that it is not possible to sustain the present level of consumption in developed countries and wealthier sectors of society, where the habit of wasting and discarding has reached unprecedented levels. The exploitation of the planet has already exceeded acceptable limits and we still have not solved the problem of poverty." quote:"...recent world summits on the environment have not lived up to expectations because, due to lack of political will, they were unable to reach truly meaningful and effective global agreements on the environment. A politics concerned with immediate results, supported by consumerist sectors of the population, is driven to produce short-term growth. In response to electoral interests, governments are reluctant to upset the public with measures which could affect the level of consumption or create risks for foreign investment. The myopia of power politics delays the inclusion of a far-sighted environmental agenda within the overall agenda of governments." quote:"Once more, we need to reject a magical conception of the market, which would suggest that problems can be solved simply by an increase in the profits of companies or individuals. Is it realistic to hope that those who are obsessed with maximizing profits will stop to reflect on the environmental damage which they will leave behind for future generations? Where profits alone count, there can be no thinking about the rhythms of nature, its phases of decay and regeneration, or the complexity of ecosystems which may be gravely upset by human intervention." QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 15:05
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The climate change deniers are going to either ignore this or say that the Pope is no scientist, so why should anyone care. (I know he has a degree in chemistry.)
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Jun 18, 2015 15:27
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Mystic_Shadow posted:The climate change deniers are going to either ignore this or say that the Pope is no scientist, so why should anyone care. (I know he has a degree in chemistry.) Yeah, as much credibility as the Pope has, this is going to just probably blow over for the vast majority of deniers.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:28
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Anyone still denying the reality of climate change is never going to be swayed. The encyclical is not for them: it's a rallying cry for everyone else.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:30
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Thanks for the tl;dr, since I skipped over the story on news sites, it being the pope who said it. While he is right, I doubt that this document will be of any consequence; politicians aren't going to act because a religious figure told them what they've already been told by scientists for decades, and it is political action that is required to reduce the damage that is being done.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:30
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Vermain posted:Anyone still denying the reality of climate change is never going to be swayed. The encyclical is not for them: it's a rallying cry for everyone else. Sadly a large portion of first-world government officials and policy makers do not want to touch climate change with a ten-foot pole. "Everyone else" is just people with no power.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:31
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Mystic_Shadow posted:Sadly a large portion of first-world government officials and policy makers do not want to touch climate change with a ten-foot pole. "Everyone else" is just people with no power. Okay.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:35
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Mystic_Shadow posted:The climate change deniers are going to either ignore this or say that the Pope is no scientist, so why should anyone care. (I know he has a degree in chemistry.) The Papacy possesses incredible agenda-setting powers and by talking about this issue, he forces other prominent leaders to either address or counter his remarks. It is doubtful that this encyclical will do much to convince true skeptics, but it raises climate change's profile as a major issue and adds pressure to upcoming discussions at the United Nations, where the Pope has sway. It also has the added affect of framing the Pope's upcoming address at the U.S. Congress. Americans should be prepared for a lot of media fervor of over the issue as his arrival approaches. QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 15:35
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Inglonias posted:I can't read the document from work, as our company blocks websites hosted outside of 'Murica, but maybe some of you work in places that don't block foreign websites, and can read the document. I selected everything and copied it to pastebin for you. http://pastebin.com/eax3Zh6W
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Jun 18, 2015 16:25
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Jeb Bush: "I don't think we should politicize our faith." The gall is over 9000!
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Jun 18, 2015 23:51
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I seriously don't understand how people deny the 97% consensus. Seems like to me it's saying "hey, all these research papers that have been vetted for errors are all wrong because evil scientist conspiracy! I know more than all these scientists because Watts told me so!" Every dang person that I talk to that believes the consensus is fake goes to the conspiracy theory.
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Jun 19, 2015 06:40
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James The 1st posted:I seriously don't understand how people deny the 97% consensus. Seems like to me it's saying "hey, all these research papers that have been vetted for errors are all wrong because evil scientist conspiracy! I know more than all these scientists because Watts told me so!" Every dang person that I talk to that believes the consensus is fake goes to the conspiracy theory. The Green Energy Lobby has bribed all of the scientists so that they can get kickbacks and pork-barrel spending from Liberal government. My tax dollars are being stolen by Liberals.
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Jun 19, 2015 06:44
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James The 1st posted:I seriously don't understand how people deny the 97% consensus. Which is why throwing more facts at such people won't change their mind, because they weren't using facts to form those opinions in the first place.
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Jun 19, 2015 12:53
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James The 1st posted:I seriously don't understand how people deny the 97% consensus. Because the alternative to denial would be accepting that a radical change in our way of life as a species has to occur.
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Jun 19, 2015 14:26
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How are u posted:The Green Energy Lobby has bribed all of the scientists so that they can get kickbacks and pork-barrel spending from Liberal government. My tax dollars are being stolen by Liberals.  "But let's keep subsidizing the oil industry, they won't abuse us, oh no."
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Jun 19, 2015 16:19
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The current mass extinction event is the fastest ever, even by conservative estimates. http://gu.com/p/4ax8d
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Jun 19, 2015 21:35
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Finally, some good news for once! The world is NOT actually getting warmer:https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201505 posted:The combined average temperature over global land and ocean surfaces for May 2015 was the highest for May in the 136-year period of record, at 0.87°C (1.57°F) above the 20th century average of 14.8°C (58.6°F), surpassing the previous record set just one year ago by 0.08°C (0.14°F). This ties with February 1998 as the fourth highest monthly departure from average for any month on record. The two highest monthly departures from average occurred earlier this year in February and March, both at 0.89°C (1.60°F) above the 20th century average for their respective months. Oh... wait... Arcane, could you please explain this for me? I think this is evidence that global warming is real, but I'm sure that you can correct me.
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Jun 20, 2015 13:27
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Honj Steak posted:The current mass extinction event is the fastest ever, even by conservative estimates. Faster than K-Pg? That's worrying, to say the least.
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Jun 20, 2015 13:45
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Placid Marmot posted:Finally, some good news for once! The world is NOT actually getting warmer: Why bother? It's always the same thing and it's not even entertaining anymore. Whenever he posts, just reply to him asking for the name of an oceanographer who says that our oceans aren't hosed.
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Jun 20, 2015 13:46
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68k posted:Because the alternative to denial would be accepting that a radical change in our way of life as a species has to occur. Deployment of nuclear power as a governmental imperative?
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Jun 20, 2015 14:28
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Placid Marmot posted:Finally, some good news for once! The world is NOT actually getting warmer: Come on man, it's not the world isn't getting hotter, it's just that the estimates for how hot it will be in 50-100 years are way off, because the temperature hasn't been tracking those estimates for a while and are flat. That's his shtick.
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Jun 20, 2015 17:22
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Honj Steak posted:The current mass extinction event is the fastest ever, even by conservative estimates. death is certain
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Jun 20, 2015 18:41
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Ecuador had leased a third of its Rainforest to China for oil in 2013 http://www.businessinsider.com.au/ecuador-selling-its-rainforest-to-china-2013-3
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Jun 21, 2015 00:10
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Mystic_Shadow posted:The climate change deniers are going to either ignore this or say that the Pope is no scientist, so why should anyone care. (I know he has a degree in chemistry.) CommieGIR posted:Yeah, as much credibility as the Pope has, this is going to just probably blow over for the vast majority of deniers. Come on guys, this is a pretty stupid position to take. You yourself would state "It's only the pope, what does he know and why should we care?", if he said global warming isn't a thing. Anyone that isn't religious isn't going to give a drat about the pope.
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Jun 21, 2015 00:30
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Batham posted:Come on guys, this is a pretty stupid position to take. You yourself would state "It's only the pope, what does he know and why should we care?", if he said global warming isn't a thing. Well I think it's fairly obvious that the assumption is that most climate change deniers are also religious. Obviously the overlap is far from 100%, but I'd wager it's pretty high.
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Jun 21, 2015 00:36
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Batham posted:Come on guys, this is a pretty stupid position to take. You yourself would state "It's only the pope, what does he know and why should we care?", if he said global warming isn't a thing. Of course not. Non-Catholics will not listen to whatever the Pope has to say. I was just hoping that the people who think that 99% of scientists are part of some conspiracy to steal grant money from the government would listen to someone who has little scientific expertise but actually can channel God or whatever. Very few people are authorities on the topic, which I think is part of the reason why people would rather trust their gut feeling that the Earth is fine than listen to the few hundreds of climatologists working on the topic every single day. But yeah if the Pope said "climate change isn't real" I would trust the climatologists, not the Pope. But since the Pope does agree with the climatologists, I'm hoping that his encyclical can change a few people's minds.
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Jun 21, 2015 00:45
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It might be helpful. If the Pope had said a similar thing twenty years ago the debate might be different now. From the Pope's point of view its almost irrelevant. He 's duty bound to comment on the great moral issues of the day.
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Jun 21, 2015 01:05
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Batham posted:Come on guys, this is a pretty stupid position to take. You yourself would state "It's only the pope, what does he know and why should we care?", if he said global warming isn't a thing. Catholicism is a huge religion so it's kind of important when the pope says something. I've also met a poo poo load of practicing Catholics that have been extremely conservative. Like it or not but when the pope comes out and says "hey conservatives you're being shits" it's kind of a big deal because he's speaking directly to his followers. The pope saying that Christians should probably be more liberal is a way bigger deal than you think. It isn't about what he's an expert on it's about who is listening. Him coming out in opposition to some of the major conservative talking points of the day is huge.
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Jun 21, 2015 02:05
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Catholicism is a huge religion so it's kind of important when the pope says something. I've also met a poo poo load of practicing Catholics that have been extremely conservative. Like it or not but when the pope comes out and says "hey conservatives you're being shits" it's kind of a big deal because he's speaking directly to his followers. The pope saying that Christians should probably be more liberal is a way bigger deal than you think. It isn't about what he's an expert on it's about who is listening. Him coming out in opposition to some of the major conservative talking points of the day is huge. The problem is that conservatives in the US have already been basically telling the Pope to gently caress off. His comments regarding inequality and his implied stance against hatred of gays ("who am I to judge") produced similar reactions. To them, agreement is moral while dissent suddenly makes the morality political instead. So, when the Pope says "hey, this planet is a gift from the almighty and we're destroying it out of sheer greed, how do you think that looks from above" their response was a fully predictable "stay the gently caress away from politics, your holiness." It doesn't help that the religious right wing in the US is already prejudiced against the Pope due to being overwhelmingly Protestant. I can't speak for those in other countries but I wouldn't be surprised if their reception was similar. 
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Jun 21, 2015 12:12
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FAUXTON posted:The problem is that conservatives in the US have already been basically telling the Pope to gently caress off. His comments regarding inequality and his implied stance against hatred of gays ("who am I to judge") produced similar reactions. To them, agreement is moral while dissent suddenly makes the morality political instead. So, when the Pope says "hey, this planet is a gift from the almighty and we're destroying it out of sheer greed, how do you think that looks from above" their response was a fully predictable "stay the gently caress away from politics, your holiness." It doesn't help that the religious right wing in the US is already prejudiced against the Pope due to being overwhelmingly Protestant. I imagine the religious right in America is just furious that they're going to lose some Catholic votes over it. Plus there are a lot of protestants who still listen to the pope. Like I said a major political leader saying those sorts of things gets a lot of attention and the words he is using speak very strongly to even the non-religious. Here is a very influential figure publicly standing up and saying "hey you know can we all pull together and be less greedy? We have to live on this rock let's at least take care of it. We should probably hate less too I mean you guys are being serious jerks." It's a huge deal because here is a very visible, very influential religious leader actually trying to be Christ-like. The other reason it's a huge deal is because the American religious right has bought into the prosperity gospel something fierce. The bigger problem is that the pope is taking a contrary view to what they believe. This is a very authoritarian movement that believes all dissent must be destroyed and silenced. Suddenly they have an enemy but they can't just go "well he's a Muslim of course he's a poo poo" because he is, you know, the pope. The reason they're furious is because people listen to the pope. He is deliberately yanking the entirety of Christianity to the left when he does the things he's doing while deliberately countering the base arguments of the religions right. These are people that run on spite, hatred, and greed and the pope is telling the world Jesus would not like that very much.
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Jun 21, 2015 20:09
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Batham posted:Come on guys, this is a pretty stupid position to take. You yourself would state "It's only the pope, what does he know and why should we care?", if he said global warming isn't a thing. I'm an atheist and this pope has made me take notice. He's an impressive moral leader, we just happen to disagree on a few things.
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Jun 21, 2015 20:41
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:I'm an atheist and this pope has made me take notice. He's an impressive moral leader, we just happen to disagree on a few things. Were you on the fence about climate change previously?
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Jun 21, 2015 23:15
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