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Clinton's campaign so far has been pretty drat leftist, compared to recent major Dem candidates. She's talking about stuff that Obama didn't even bother with. Sure, I get that it's cool to go on about how the two parties are basically the same and only
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Jun 19, 2015 21:44
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Anorexic Sea Turtle posted:I get where you're coming from, but I just don't see Hillary pulling every bit of her power to fundamentally change the way our politics works, unlike Sanders. Hillary doesn't seem too keen on pushing the senate (or governors) to call for a national amendment to reform campaign finance and she sure as hell doesn't seem to mind the large paychecks from corporations. I realize that she can't directly accomplish these things, but she can definitely throw some influence if she wanted to, but by doing this, she'd be shooting herself in her own foot since she's the benefactor of a large amount of these broken finance laws. I would agree with you that Hillary is less likely to push for massive change than Bernie. Personally I think this means what she does push for is more likely to stick - and maybe she'd push for more than you might think. The pendulum may be swinging leftwards for real. quote:I agree with you sooooo much, but I just can't justify voting another #leastevilcandidate.
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Jun 19, 2015 21:44
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MC Nietzche posted:Unless America is straight out 9/11 style attacked again there is a 0% chance President H. Clinton starts a war. At worst she will probably continue Obama's drone policy. Clinton was one of the biggest proponent of American involvement in Libya during her tenure in the State Department, over the objections of the Defense Department.
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Jun 19, 2015 21:45
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Would Sanders probably continue overseas bombing? Absolutely. Nessus posted:I actually suspect Hillary would at least keep on some of Obama's folks. After all this hassle with Loretta Lynch, why not keep her on? The question is what would actually be "leftward change" for most cabinet posts?
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Jun 19, 2015 21:51
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Would Sanders probably continue overseas bombing? No. Costs too much money. We could be feeding the poor with that money. That being said, I don't think we've heard much of anything on what he'd do with Afghanistan other than "we should stop loving over Afghanistan and other countries." From what I've seen, he's pretty much your college liberal in terms of foreign policy: http://www.ontheissues.org/international/Bernie_Sanders_Foreign_Policy.htm ^^Nothing special http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-troubling-history-supporting-us-military-violence-abroad ^^He's mainstream Democrat http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/us/politics/bernie-sanders-on-the-issues.html?_r=0 ^^ More milquetoast poo poo He needs to DTR with foreign policy soon.
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Jun 19, 2015 21:52
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Joementum posted:Clinton was one of the biggest proponent of American involvement in Libya during her tenure in the State Department, over the objections of the Defense Department. You know that's a really loving fair point. Then again, the US didn't start the Libyan insurgency, and hardly any US troops were involved. Though I have no idea what Sanders' stance on drones are, but I'd be willing to bet it's "they're bad and we should stop using them." That's a WAG though.
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Jun 19, 2015 21:53
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Rick Perry just called Charleston an "accident" before blaming it on prescription meds.
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Jun 19, 2015 21:57
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Y'all are gonna love Bernie's position on Israel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K437Zd-gM0
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Jun 19, 2015 21:57
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Rick Perry just called Charleston an "accident" before blaming it on prescription meds. Oops!
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Jun 19, 2015 21:59
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Supraluminal posted:I know, I wasn't rebutting you. Just offering my opinion on the situation. 
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Jun 19, 2015 22:02
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Supraluminal posted:Oops! My fb version was Rick Perry just called Charleston an "accident", blamed it on prescription meds, lack of education and...uh...and....uhhhhh... Oops
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Jun 19, 2015 22:04
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Rick Perry just called Charleston an "accident" before blaming it on prescription meds. The "accident" or Rick Perry calling it that? Wasn't his post-facto excuse last year that he was out of his gourd on powerful pain meds for a hosed-up back while he was on the campaign trail? Joementum posted:Y'all are gonna love Bernie's position on Israel. Just lost the LF vote.
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Jun 19, 2015 22:04
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Joementum posted:Y'all are gonna love Bernie's position on Israel. He's actually come out pretty nuanced on the subject. http://www.bustle.com/articles/79871-bernie-sanders-stance-on-israel-has-caused-some-tension-for-him-in-the-past Post modern as gently caress.
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Jun 19, 2015 22:08
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Unless Israel drops a nuke on Gaza, no politician in our lifetime is ever going to criticize Israel. Even then, they'd probably just say Israel has the right to protect itself.
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Jun 19, 2015 22:18
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The Insect Court posted:The "accident" or Rick Perry calling it that? Wasn't his post-facto excuse last year that he was out of his gourd on powerful pain meds for a hosed-up back while he was on the campaign trail? The "accident" was caused by them, not the verbal fart. Could be both but he only said the one.
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Jun 19, 2015 22:23
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Joementum posted:Y'all are gonna love Bernie's position on Israel. I'm literally in tears with admiration for the political process of Vermont.
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Jun 19, 2015 22:23
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Joementum posted:Y'all are gonna love Bernie's position on Israel. That video is much more informative regarding his position on hecklers than his position on Israel. But yeah, he's (somewhat surprisingly) not super-duper left-wing on foreign policy and military issues. My understanding is that he supports US airstrikes against ISIS while simultaneously pushing for Muslim countries in the area (e.g. Saudi Arabia) to take on the lead in the fight, for example. My gut feeling is that he's probably a little more hawkish than I am, but a lot less so than Clinton - who (the consensus seems to be) is more bellicose than Obama, which honestly is saying something for a "liberal" candidate. SedanChair posted:I'm literally in tears with admiration for the political process of Vermont. To be fair to the guy, those people were being lovely. He lost his cool, but at the same time he wasn't unreasonable in asking that they not yell out interruptions while he's talking. Supraluminal fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Jun 19, 2015 |
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Jun 19, 2015 22:23
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Somebody quick, stick a mic in the face of Huckabee, Santorum, Carson and especially Paul and ask about the persecution of christians in foreign lands and what they are going to do about it. quote:A fire believed to have been started by Jewish extremists has badly damaged a church on the Sea of Galilee built on the site where Christian tradition holds that Jesus performed the miracle of feeding five thousand people with two fish and five loaves of bread. I stole this article from Josef K. Sourdust in the RWM thread.
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Jun 19, 2015 22:39
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Supraluminal posted:That video is much more informative regarding his position on hecklers than his position on Israel. Of course "More bellicose than Obama" is loving dove-like compared to anyone on the R side, even Trump. Considering Bush III has as many of his dad's and brother's advisors working for him as he can get, I'm pretty sure his presidential plan is "invade the mid-east again, as soon as I can find/manufacture an excuse."
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Jun 19, 2015 22:43
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Responding to the guy/girl who posted about electoral rights being one of the most important issues, Clinton has been pretty vocifierous about electoral reform and automatic registration. Her plank so far taken as a whole is solidly slightly left of the Democratic party consensus.
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Jun 19, 2015 22:51
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Is there any surprise a 70 year old Jewish man is pro-Israel?
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Jun 19, 2015 23:07
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Shageletic posted:Responding to the guy/girl who posted about electoral rights being one of the most important issues, Clinton has been pretty vocifierous about electoral reform and automatic registration. Her plank so far taken as a whole is solidly slightly left of the Democratic party consensus. I know she has, and I appreciate that as far as it goes. Ultimately I don't trust her as much as I do Sanders. She's the epitome of an establishment politician, beholden (at least in part) to the usual rich and powerful players, and I don't feel I can take her at her word as readily. I think she's probably doing the usual primary dance of flirting with the wing before trending back to the center. Whatever you may think of Sanders, though, I don't think you can accuse him of inconsistency. I will grant that on the specific issue of election reform/registration expansion, Clinton probably genuinely would like to execute on what she says, because it's just so obviously good long-term political strategy for the left. Feather posted:Sanders is at least as good on minority and immigrant issues as Hillary. Maybe if he keeps talking up his accomplishments in those areas the morons who equate rhetoric with action will shut up. And there's this, although I wouldn't necessarily phrase it that way. His generally excellent record aside, it's important for him to talk about those issues in the campaign, both to win and to give them the public attention they deserve. Which he has begun doing more of. I actually think it was brilliant politics (if maybe unintentional) for him to start with such a singularly focused message. He's fighting an incredible uphill battle in terms of funding and name recognition, and beating that economic drum so loudly was a good way to get a toehold. He will probably have to branch out a bit as he goes, though.
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Jun 19, 2015 23:15
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DOOP posted:Is there any surprise a 70 year old Jewish man is pro-Israel? He was not all that pleased when questioned on his non-existent dual citizenship with Israel.
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Jun 19, 2015 23:19
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DOOP posted:Is there any surprise a 70 year old Jewish man is pro-Israel? Or at least a fair number of folks seem to be. Hilariously this is kind of how a few people got with Obama... personally, I got about what I expected out of Obama.
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Jun 19, 2015 23:33
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Feather posted:Sanders is at least as good on minority and immigrant issues as Hillary. Maybe if he keeps talking up his accomplishments in those areas the morons who equate rhetoric with action will shut up. Sanders, who is a cool dude and an excellent senator, is badly let down by his supporters wildly attacking people who say that he can stand to learn some stuff on minority issues. Sanders is from an area that doesn't really have to deal with minority or immigration issues. His votes in the senate on this have been fine. So have Clintons'. Rhetoric is actually important, as responding to the Ferguson shootings with talk about employment and poverty, while not horrible, evil, bad, racist, etc., is tone-deaf and doesn't demonstrate that he understands that racism is something that goes deeper than class issues--poverty and unemployment in the black community are because of racism, not because of classism. I fully believe that Sanders is capable of becoming a great leader on minority issues. In order to do this, he needs to meet with black leaders and talk about incarceration and the justice system in non-economic terms. Increased general prosperity still leaves black people behind, as the GI bill showed.
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Jun 19, 2015 23:35
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The screen that Ted Cruz speaks in front of with his name all over it is adorable  
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Jun 19, 2015 23:37
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Obdicut posted:Sanders is from an area that doesn't really have to deal with minority or immigration issues. Look at how wrong you are.
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Jun 19, 2015 23:38
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How mad is Drudge at his boyfriend for wanting to lead the issues on Gun Control? http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/martin-omalley-launches-major-post-charleston-gun-control-pu#.cpnz5K1e95 (If this was posted, apologies. )
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Jun 19, 2015 23:57
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You can hear them at night, sharpening their skates. They come over via the frozen lakes and canals. They have calves the size of extra-large-servings of poutine. That's why I'm in favor of global warming; it'll slow the advance of the syrup-drenched Canuck invaders.
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Jun 19, 2015 23:58
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Would Sanders probably continue overseas bombing? I have a feeling that almost anyone who makes it into the White House is going to at least partially continue overseas bombing. It's an easy and, probably, tempting solution for a lot of problems. It's like a lot of Executive power issues where people are against them until they're the President, then suddenly they make a whole lot of sense. Especially since they don't notice the bubble forming around them that is inherent to being President, limiting outside opinions and reinforcing decisions already made.
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Jun 20, 2015 00:20
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Also it's not like Russia is going to de-annex Crimea or disinvade Eastern Ukraine, or China going to unclaim those islands and raising hell aobut it, or a variety of ethnic/religious/economic conflicts in the Middle East and Africa are going to just disappear, as soon as the Good and Right and Proper President takes office. I'm not sure I want a President who will be ideologically opposed to the use of military force, because they are going to compromise, except you don't know how because they said they'd never do it, period.
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Jun 20, 2015 00:24
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Supraluminal posted:Not good enough. We need to be making active progress on (for example) climate change, wealth inequality, and election reform immediately and urgently. These are fights that we lose critical ground on every day that passes in which we "make things no worse." There are some issues that trend gradually in the progressive direction if we just hold the line - although we should never be satisfied with that, come on! - but others don't work that way. And what? President Bernie is going to suddenly get decades-entrenched Congresscritters to throw down the oppressive weight of their corporate overlords and do the right thing? Rewrite the Constitution to fundamentally alter how the electoral process works? What you're talking about would require an en mass alteration of more or less the entire US political system from the state (in some cases, local) level upwards. You're talking about a revolution, not an election. Look, support the guy, vote for him, give him all you're able to. But don't lose sight of what the results are likely to be.
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Jun 20, 2015 00:44
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Anorexic Sea Turtle posted:No. Costs too much money. We could be feeding the poor with that money. It's not like the budget is a big pile of money that can be used at a whim.
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Jun 20, 2015 00:47
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Obdicut posted:Sanders, who is a cool dude and an excellent senator, is badly let down by his supporters wildly attacking people who say that he can stand to learn some stuff on minority issues. I'm sorry, I have trouble understanding condescension, especially from people who spout talking points, dismiss arguments out of hand, try to pass that off as rigorous debate, and then get butt-hurt when they're subsequently ignored. But, do go on. quote:Rhetoric is actually important, as responding to the Ferguson shootings with talk about employment and poverty, while not horrible, evil, bad, racist, etc., is tone-deaf and doesn't demonstrate that he understands that racism is something that goes deeper than class issues--poverty and unemployment in the black community are because of racism, not because of classism.
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Jun 20, 2015 00:53
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Shageletic posted:Responding to the guy/girl who posted about electoral rights being one of the most important issues, Clinton has been pretty vocifierous about electoral reform and automatic registration. Her plank so far taken as a whole is solidly slightly left of the Democratic party consensus. For real, she called out GOP governors for suppressing the vote in their states.
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Jun 20, 2015 00:54
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Rand Paul: Bureaucrat Hunter
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Jun 20, 2015 01:06
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that's real isn't it
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Jun 20, 2015 01:08
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i mean i remember reading him making a statement about "blowing up the IRS" after the whole "Destroy the Washington machine" and wondering if his campaign was going to just keep escalating the imagery of leveling DC as we know it and here we are
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Jun 20, 2015 01:09
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