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To C-Euro, it depends a bit on their wording. If they've used language like 'final offer' or 'best offer', that's usually the signal that there's no more room. Considering your situation I'd personally be inclined to take it. You get a much better position to search from if it doesn't work out a year or two down the road. To lettuce, see what they offer you. If they start at $95k there's probably room. Remember he's asking for you, and strongly enough that your company doesn't mind him pulling you out of your current group. There's probably room over their open. If he starts you above the peers, I'd be a bit more reluctant to negotiate, but take tone into account. If he offers below the peers, you definitely have room to deal.
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Jun 18, 2015 01:43
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dead lettuce posted:So the director in my current group is moving to another group, within the same company. He and my direct manager pulled me into a room yesterday totally out of the blue to ask if I would be interested in taking a job in the director's new group, which would come with a promotion to Sr. Analyst. The director said he is trying to "poach" me for his new team (his words). My manager is supportive of my decision either way. I'm still learning more about the job and will be meeting the team and manager later today over lunch, but unless it looks crappy, I will probably take it since it's more money, sooner. I've worked with the team a little bit in my current role and they seem good to work with. I will also get to meet with the manager, my would-be co-workers, and the person in the job now to get their honest opinions on it. I really like the director and would like to continue working in his org. He is very relaxed, trusts his employees, and seriously advocates for us during annual reviews. He also seems to think I'm a high-potential rock star for who knows what reason, so I get the sense that staying in his org will be great for my career. I'd play the information symmetry to the hilt. They know what you make, you know what they pay the role. You know that they have no internal options and a one time cost of $20k to not pick you. If you get a good offer in line with what people in the Sr. Analyst role receive, then I'd take it as a sign that you're valued and being compensated at what that company gives for that role, and negotiate amicably, but probably take what I could get it to. I'd play more for vacation / them covering insurance premiums / etc. If I got lowballed out the gate, I'd negotiate aggressively and be willing to walk on the opportunity entirely. Remember that you'd be new at this job level and so they may want to discount your compensation for that role initially. From my own experience the only thing that can substitute for good negotiating skills is to work for a good director who will get your back and advocate for you. That can be worth a lot and so should factor into what you're trying to get, but should also be informed by where they open the offer. The intangibles to keep in mind are coming in the gate with a positive opinion, a relaxed environment, an increase in responsibilities, and more room to grow quickly. As I'm fond of repeating in this thread: know when you've won. A promotion with an 18% raise is nothing to sneeze at, and you do not want to make spending that 20k start to look appealing. It's a one time cost which, if they can save 5k a year, they'll have recouped in 4 years.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:55
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Kalenn Istarion posted:To lettuce, see what they offer you. If they start at $95k there's probably room. Remember he's asking for you, and strongly enough that your company doesn't mind him pulling you out of your current group. There's probably room over their open. If he starts you above the peers, I'd be a bit more reluctant to negotiate, but take tone into account. If he offers below the peers, you definitely have room to deal. Dwight Eisenhower posted:I'd play the information symmetry to the hilt. They know what you make, you know what they pay the role. You know that they have no internal options and a one time cost of $20k to not pick you. If you get a good offer in line with what people in the Sr. Analyst role receive, then I'd take it as a sign that you're valued and being compensated at what that company gives for that role, and negotiate amicably, but probably take what I could get it to. I'd play more for vacation / them covering insurance premiums / etc. If I got lowballed out the gate, I'd negotiate aggressively and be willing to walk on the opportunity entirely. Remember that you'd be new at this job level and so they may want to discount your compensation for that role initially. Thank you both, really great advice. It's a tricky situation since I don't want to push my hand too much, but I also don't want to leave money on the table--but in the end, I win either way. If they offer <$95k, I may try to negotiate up a bit, but if they offer $95k or more I'm not sure it would be wise to try to push it to $100k since this is a great opportunity and I'm still young and relatively less experienced for this job level--I only have 3 years of full-time experience, most analysts at this level have at least 5 years if not more and are in their 30s with families. I will still totally feel like I've won at $95k. I'll assess the tone from my director and new manager when I get the offer, along with the offer itself, and take it from there. My annual bonus % will be going up along with the promotion, too, which along with the base salary raise will mean another ~$4k a year at a minimum, probably more. Dwight, I like your point about a good director being a substitute for negotiation. It really seems like that is the case for me, he has now given me 2 raises/opportunities without even having to ask, so staying on his team for the next couple years seems like a wise decision. The lunch yesterday went really well. I think I might even like the new team more than my current one, so that's another point in favor of taking the new job. I'm meeting with the team members and manager individually today, so fingers crossed for no red flags, but it's looking really good--some flexibility/WFH, a relaxed team and manager who know how to joke around, and no more than 40-45 hours a week. It's looking strongly like I'll take the job at this point, but I'll update the thread once everything's finalized and after the salary is worked out, probably Monday or Tuesday. Thanks again!
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Jun 18, 2015 17:23
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Kalenn Istarion posted:To C-Euro, it depends a bit on their wording. If they've used language like 'final offer' or 'best offer', that's usually the signal that there's no more room. Considering your situation I'd personally be inclined to take it. You get a much better position to search from if it doesn't work out a year or two down the road. Yeah I went ahead and accepted it with the extra pay, I thought for a moment about haggling on some of the start dates for benefits but then I remembered it's pretty cheap for me to just hop on my fiancee's plan. From "there is zero room for negotiation on this" I got a 2% raise, a better start date, and the ability to borrow PTO at the start of employment. Not bad for a first-time negotiation while unemployed with no other job offers, thanks for believing in me goons 
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Jun 18, 2015 19:16
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C-Euro posted:Yeah I went ahead and accepted it with the extra pay, I thought for a moment about haggling on some of the start dates for benefits but then I remembered it's pretty cheap for me to just hop on my fiancee's plan. I didn't see your edit earlier, but yes, you did the right thing. Congrats.
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Jun 18, 2015 21:15
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I got an offer for what is essentially my dream job, but I'd still like to make sure I'm going about this correctly. They came in the middle of the band that I said when the recruiter pushed hard in the initial screening interview and would like me to start June 7th. I'd be relocating states from Southern California to Seattle, and recently finished my Master's degree so they are aware I don't currently have a career position. The initial application stated that relocation assistance was not available for this position, so I wasn't expecting to negotiate for that. Medical and benefits are extremely good, and this company is a fortune 500 and in the 100 Best Places to Work index. They called me this morning (Friday) and asked for me to review the package and get back to them on questions/discussion by Monday. I'd like to ask for about 10% more than they're offering, to hopefully land about 5-6% higher. The recruiter also said the start date could be discussed, which is great because I'd like to push it back another week or two, to give me time to wrap up my life, find an apartment, move (and because it's on my birthday and that would suck  ) They're offering 13 days of PTO, which begins accruing immediately. Is it smart to send an email or call the internal recruiter with questions: 1. When do you need a decision? 2. Is salary negotiable, because based on my qualifications and the excellent match between and the company, I was hoping to come in at $XX, 3. Based on the timeline for relocation, can I start July 15th? 4. It was mentioned that sick days are separate from PTO, and I'd like to know what that allowance is, as it's not in the offer 5. Is there budgeted development for this position, and do you know if there are professional conferences that will be part of this role? Too many questions? Am I asking for enough, too much? Also, I'm in the second rounds of interviews with another company. This one is huge globally, with headquarters in Germany and an excellent relocation plan. The work sounds more compelling and better for personal development. My last set of interviews went stunningly (Woman paused me to say I'd answered perfectly!!) but they mentioned it's still early rounds. Business was already closed in their time zone by the time my offer came in, so do I send an email Monday to let them know I've received an offer but I'd like to see if they're able to accelerate their process? I hugely doubt they'd fast-track me and bring me in for an onsite in Germany in under a week, but it's worth a shot as long as I word it politely, right?
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Jun 19, 2015 23:12
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General time frame for offers is going to be a couple of days to maybe a week maximum if you don't say anything. If you want more time then give a reason and say when you'll be able to get back to them. This also applies in general, you don't ask or hope in a negotiation. You state what you want, preferably with some justification, and then if that doesn't work for the company they'll respond. Asking permission leaves a wide open door for them to refuse. Tell the other company as the worst that can happen is that they say no. Just to clarify in case someone misinterprets it. Asking for clarification about an offer, so questions4 and 5 from above, are good and you should do that, but you don't ask if salary is negotiable or anything else you want for the job.
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Jun 20, 2015 08:34
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Man, I'm getting such conflicting advice from every avenue. Some say ask kindly and politely, and do it by phone. Others say go over email and that it'll sour the company on me if I ask for more than 4-5% more. Given the offer is already out, it's not like they'll retract it or consider me a bad candidate if I ask for 10% more. I'm just getting so many people saying "I think that offer is probably solid and I'd be shocked if you make more". Are most people just too scared to negotiate?
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Jun 20, 2015 18:41
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Gonktastic posted:Are most people just too scared to negotiate? Yes. And if you don't have experience with it, it can be difficult and nerve wracking. I kept putting it off and then finally I walked in and asked my boss for a 12% raise and he was essentially like okay. Know what you're worth, and ask for that. They might say no, or counteroffer with something lower, and then you have to decide whether to accept the offer, but it's still worth doing. edit: That being said, if the offer is really solid/good, don't overplay your hand and ask for more just to do it. But if you think you're worth more, go for it.
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Jun 20, 2015 18:48
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The problem with asking in the form of a question is that you pushing the value judgement, is this person worth whatever they are asking for, on to the other person and this makes you appear uncertain. You want to approach the negotiation with the mindset that you are worth $X and thus should be paid that. I think the best advice is that you do not want to work for a company that would walk away when you try to negotiate a reasonable increase. If you ask for double the initial offer and you can't justify it then all bets are off, but 10% or 20% is no issue. I'd recommend negotiating over email mostly because it allows you time to think over the offer and what you want. If you're great at negotiating there's no issue doing it over the phone or in person, but that doesn't apply to most people.
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Jun 20, 2015 19:14
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Gonktastic posted:I got an offer for what is essentially my dream job, but I'd still like to make sure I'm going about this correctly. They came in the middle of the band that I said when the recruiter pushed hard in the initial screening interview and would like me to start June 7th. I'd be relocating states from Southern California to Seattle, and recently finished my Master's degree so they are aware I don't currently have a career position. The initial application stated that relocation assistance was not available for this position, so I wasn't expecting to negotiate for that. Medical and benefits are extremely good, and this company is a fortune 500 and in the 100 Best Places to Work index. If you'd prefer the German job, I'd send them an e-mail saying that you received a competitive offer you'd be happy to accept but you'd prefer to work for them if they can make a comparable offer.
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Jun 20, 2015 19:51
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Gonktastic posted:Are most people just too scared to negotiate?
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Jun 20, 2015 19:52
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dead lettuce posted:Thank you both, really great advice. It's a tricky situation since I don't want to push my hand too much, but I also don't want to leave money on the table--but in the end, I win either way. If they offer <$95k, I may try to negotiate up a bit, but if they offer $95k or more I'm not sure it would be wise to try to push it to $100k since this is a great opportunity and I'm still young and relatively less experienced for this job level--I only have 3 years of full-time experience, most analysts at this level have at least 5 years if not more and are in their 30s with families. I will still totally feel like I've won at $95k. I'll assess the tone from my director and new manager when I get the offer, along with the offer itself, and take it from there. My annual bonus % will be going up along with the promotion, too, which along with the base salary raise will mean another ~$4k a year at a minimum, probably more. Dwight, I like your point about a good director being a substitute for negotiation. It really seems like that is the case for me, he has now given me 2 raises/opportunities without even having to ask, so staying on his team for the next couple years seems like a wise decision. The reason I'm spelling this out is to point out that you are in a very strong negotiating position. Your director wants you and only you personally at this point. Just be discreet; he can't appear to be playing favorites with the guys he's bringing with him over the already established team.
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Jun 20, 2015 21:19
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Excellent, thanks everybody. I felt strong about negotiating when I first received the offer and then had several people in my life tell me I was being unreasonable. The offer came in below what I was aiming for, but still is one I would be okay taking if they won't budge on salary. I feel my position is strong given that I'm uniquely qualified for this company and I've worked for them in the past, although not at the corporate level. Given that they spent over a grand flying me in for two 30 minute final interviews and gave me the offer less than 24 hours later, I think they want me. Feels great after browsing this thread occasionally for years to be in the position to negotiate myself!
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Jun 20, 2015 21:30
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Gonktastic posted:Excellent, thanks everybody. I felt strong about negotiating when I first received the offer and then had several people in my life tell me I was being unreasonable. The offer came in below what I was aiming for, but still is one I would be okay taking if they won't budge on salary. I feel my position is strong given that I'm uniquely qualified for this company and I've worked for them in the past, although not at the corporate level. Wasn't sure if it was stated explicitly or not already, but don't ask if salary's negotiable, because then they can just say no and you're left with no further avenues. Just state what your expectations are in the form of a counter position. Be polite and optimistic but phrase it like a statement rather than a request. I and others have drafted forms of responses earlier in the thread that might suggest some language for you. Others have stated this but I'll re-iterate, there's no harm at all in telling the German company that you're really interested but have a live offer from a competitor and can they accelerate things.
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Jun 21, 2015 13:55
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Wasn't sure if it was stated explicitly or not already, but don't ask if salary's negotiable, because then they can just say no and you're left with no further avenues. Just state what your expectations are in the form of a counter position. Be polite and optimistic but phrase it like a statement rather than a request. I and others have drafted forms of responses earlier in the thread that might suggest some language for you. Others have stated this but I'll re-iterate, there's no harm at all in telling the German company that you're really interested but have a live offer from a competitor and can they accelerate things. Thanks, that was what earlier responses suggested but it's nice to see it laid out bluntly. I've drafted an email that is enthusiastic, polite, and firm. I've actually done a lot of research since then and they really are coming in at the low-end of the industry given salaries that alumni have received from similar companies, as well as what they pay people with just a bachelor's and a few years of experience in other similarly titled roles. I was going to send the German firm a message tonight, and am trying to figure out if I should address it to both my recruiting contact and the hiring manager? I'll likely end up meeting or working with this team in the future given the small size of my industry and I'd like to ensure that no matter what I leave them with a good feeling about me. A thorough survey of friends and family has revealed everyone's just too afraid to negotiate. Most of them express regret over that after finding out they could have gotten more. My dad suggested that I'm an entitled millennial and they won't like me if I ask for more money, but then I remembered that he told me that my stepmom negotiated for a 40k raise last year and figured he's a capitalist pig just trying to keep the new generation down.
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Jun 21, 2015 16:56
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Gonktastic posted:Thanks, that was what earlier responses suggested but it's nice to see it laid out bluntly. I've drafted an email that is enthusiastic, polite, and firm. I've actually done a lot of research since then and they really are coming in at the low-end of the industry given salaries that alumni have received from similar companies, as well as what they pay people with just a bachelor's and a few years of experience in other similarly titled roles. I hope this makes you even more confident in asking for more money. Gonktastic posted:I was going to send the German firm a message tonight, and am trying to figure out if I should address it to both my recruiting contact and the hiring manager? I'll likely end up meeting or working with this team in the future given the small size of my industry and I'd like to ensure that no matter what I leave them with a good feeling about me. Address it to both of them. Gonktastic posted:A thorough survey of friends and family has revealed everyone's just too afraid to negotiate. Most of them express regret over that after finding out they could have gotten more. My dad suggested that I'm an entitled millennial and they won't like me if I ask for more money, but then I remembered that he told me that my stepmom negotiated for a 40k raise last year and figured he's a capitalist pig just trying to keep the new generation down. "We didn't ask for more money when I was your age! We also had stronger unions and better relative wages which we then voted against and then turned workers into a commodity, thus bringing about the need to negotiate." Ignore the haters, get what you are worth.
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Jun 21, 2015 17:34
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Gonktastic posted:A thorough survey of friends and family has revealed everyone's just too afraid to negotiate. Most of them express regret over that after finding out they could have gotten more. My dad suggested that I'm an entitled millennial and they won't like me if I ask for more money, but then I remembered that he told me that my stepmom negotiated for a 40k raise last year and figured he's a capitalist pig just trying to keep the new generation down. gently caress that poo poo. Negotiate. I regret not doing so when I accepted this job, now I am constantly reminded of my stupidity every day that I walk into the office and see incompetent people earning more than me. The HR manager bullshitted me about the 'salary bands', forgetting to say that they have a massive range and she's putting me right at the very bottom. I could have easily pushed it mid-way and that's a 1k USD monthly I'm not seeing now. /rant
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Jun 21, 2015 18:30
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Dik Hz posted:You may be aware of this already, but your director gave you the unexpected 5% "increase in responsibility" raise because he knew he was making an internal transfer and wanted to poach you. Either he'd reset your salary if you moved, or the hit would be to the new director's budget if you stayed put. It was a very cheap way (to him, at least) to build goodwill to you. Jumping into a new team at the director level can be a huge challenge, and having one familiar face that has a demonstrated good work history is a huge asset in making the transition. That makes sense now, in retrospect. Thanks for posting this. I don't think I fully realized it, to be honest. It seems like the higher-ups here are constantly talking behind closed doors about who is high potential and who should be moved into what role, and once they make a decision it happens almost immediately. This has been a big culture shock for me, coming from a F100 company where everything was very bureaucratic, essentially no raises or promotions happened outside of the annual review process, and I had to constantly fight with my manager/director to get raises and a promotion that I deserved (and was promised), only to be rewarded with an "average" performance rating and 1.4% raise 2 years in a row (yay quotas). An update: I told my director, current manager, and new manager that I'd like to move forward with the new job. I didn't explicitly say I accepted the job, so hopefully I didn't gently caress up my negotiations by more or less telling them yes. It's true I will accept this job either way--it's a great team, the work will be way more interesting than what I'm doing now, and I'm guaranteed more money, it's just not clear how much. Now I'm waiting for them to go through all the motions: open up a req, I'll apply, they'll leave it open for 5 days, and then they'll give me a formal offer.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:21
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Thanks all for the words of encouragement. Negotiated $3,500 more annually! Just remembered to stick to my guns, and don't ask small because they'll meet you halfway.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:25
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I've been interviewing with two consulting/engineering companies for the past few weeks. One of them is a position similar to what I'm doing now at a firm that is rated in the top 20 of the "best firms to work for" according to Forbes. The other is with a smaller consulting firm with a position that is slightly bigger step up from what i'm doing now. The second firm has given me a good offer with a roughly 15% increase in what I make now. The problem is I really want to go with the first firm but have not yet had an offer from them. I just finished my second interview with what I feel were very good positive results. On my way out they said they would like to see me aboard and that I would be hearing from HR soon. The second firm wants an answer by Monday and their is probably no way I'll have firm in hand offer from the first firm by then. I do feel like that offer is coming, however, I don't want to just completely blow off the second firm as its a very good offer in itself. Reputation does get around a bit in the engineering field so I'm hesitant to accept the second firms offer and then jump ship if the first firm comes through. Anyone have any suggestions on how to stall on the second firms offer while I wait to see how the first firm pans out?
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Jun 25, 2015 18:24
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fishhooked posted:I've been interviewing with two consulting/engineering companies for the past few weeks. One of them is a position similar to what I'm doing now at a firm that is rated in the top 20 of the "best firms to work for" according to Forbes. The other is with a smaller consulting firm with a position that is slightly bigger step up from what i'm doing now. The second firm has given me a good offer with a roughly 15% increase in what I make now. The problem is I really want to go with the first firm but have not yet had an offer from them. I just finished my second interview with what I feel were very good positive results. On my way out they said they would like to see me aboard and that I would be hearing from HR soon. When I was job-shopping fresh out of college, I put off a lot of "we need an answers" by saying that my significant other was out of town until the following week and that I needed to discuss it with her.
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Jun 25, 2015 20:19
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fishhooked posted:I've been interviewing with two consulting/engineering companies for the past few weeks. One of them is a position similar to what I'm doing now at a firm that is rated in the top 20 of the "best firms to work for" according to Forbes. The other is with a smaller consulting firm with a position that is slightly bigger step up from what i'm doing now. The second firm has given me a good offer with a roughly 15% increase in what I make now. The problem is I really want to go with the first firm but have not yet had an offer from them. I just finished my second interview with what I feel were very good positive results. On my way out they said they would like to see me aboard and that I would be hearing from HR soon. However, don't lie, and don't string along the second company. You can probably get away with it if you're new in the industry, but it will catch up with you eventually if you make dishonesty a habit.
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Jun 25, 2015 22:01
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swenblack posted:Either e-mail the first company and tell them you have another offer you're prepared to accept, but you'd rather work for them instead and you need an answer by Monday. Or, e-mail the second company and tell them you're waiting on a second offer and aren't prepared to make a decision by Monday. Or do both. Artificial deadlines are a fairly common negotiation practice. Don't feel overly compelled to meet them if you're in a strong negotiating position, which it seems like you are. Went ahead and called the first company, they'll have an offer to me monday! Should line up perfectly, thanks for the sound advice
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Jun 26, 2015 22:15
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dead lettuce posted:An update: I told my director, current manager, and new manager that I'd like to move forward with the new job. I didn't explicitly say I accepted the job, so hopefully I didn't gently caress up my negotiations by more or less telling them yes. It's true I will accept this job either way--it's a great team, the work will be way more interesting than what I'm doing now, and I'm guaranteed more money, it's just not clear how much. Now I'm waiting for them to go through all the motions: open up a req, I'll apply, they'll leave it open for 5 days, and then they'll give me a formal offer. Finally got an offer for the promotion. I think they kind of low-balled me with a raise of only 11% base ($88K). I was really hoping for $95K but I would be happy with $92K. I asked my new manager if there is any flexibility on the base salary offer, and he said to get back to him after reviewing the numbers. He then added that he didn't agree with HR's process of only looking at salary internally before calculating an offer, which leads me to believe that there's wiggle room. Thanks C-Euro for posting your awesome letter. I hope you don't mind that I borrowed bits and pieces for my own: quote:Hi [new manager], Now to wait...  Hopefully I didn't ask for too much. I'm assuming they will counter-offer since they aren't looking at any other candidates at this point.
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Jul 7, 2015 17:41
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dead lettuce posted:Thanks C-Euro for posting your awesome letter. I hope you don't mind that I borrowed bits and pieces for my own: I mean it only got me an extra G per year in the end, but I'm flattered that you liked it enough to borrow. Good luck!
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Jul 8, 2015 03:14
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Teeter posted:Got a couple of quick questions since I'm being optimistic about receiving an offer soon: I've finally received the official offer in writing so I'm quoting myself to get some advice about this question I had. I've been offered $30/hr, with benefit options that are decent but not as good as my current job. I am changing fields so while this is a significant increase in pay overall, it still looks to be on the lower side of average for this position. Inside scoop informs me that others on the team make about $35/hr. I definitely have little experience but there are other factors such as me not being represented by a staffing company, so is there a line that crosses to "too much" when I throw a counter offer out? Should I counter with $35 or shoot for the moon with something higher? Other random things for consideration: This is a huge company compared to what I'm used to, with close to 70k employees across a few states. Glassdoor tips say that raises are infrequent. I will also be moving for this job. It is a short move, not out of state or anything, but nonetheless it will be a big expense upfront since I currently live about an hour east of L.A and will be looking into moving to the city proper. I have never negotiated before so it is a bit overwhelming. I am nearly doubling my pay already but I can't let that interfere with looking out for myself. A big thanks to everyone in this and similar job-related threads as it's been a huge help throughout the process.
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Jul 9, 2015 00:37
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Never don't negotiate. Your hand is maybe not as strong as if you had loads of experience, but you've already got an offer and that gives you some leverage. You've already got a job, it's got better benefits. The fact that you're a referral works in your favor as well, it means that someone on their side thinks that you'll be a good fit for the team. This counts for more than you might think, as hiring someone and having them not work out because of cultural fit is a huge risk that HR departments run that they have very few ways of guarding against. Referrals are typically highly valued prospects. If you turn down their offer at this stage, they're back to square one, either making an offer to someone they already rejected for whatever reason or putting out the rec again. In some cases, they might not have another candidate or their other candidates will have already moved on. And if they often work with outside staffing firms, that means they're going to have to pay their recruiters more to continue the search. So they have some motivation to make you happy. In this case, I'd say standard negotiating rules apply. If you want 35, counter with 37, see if they come back at 35. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, ask for 35 and try to negotiate non-salary incentives like vacation or extra moving expenses. Even if you come out below what you're looking for, try to get an agreement to revisit compensation after you've been on the job for a bit so you don't stay below average for long. You don't get anything you don't ask for. Baby Babbeh fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 02:01
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Definitely negotiate, I made a counter offer when I was offered my current job (which represented a $15k bump over my previous 40 hr/week pay) and got an extra grand on my salary as well as a better start date and earlier benefits. And I wasn't even working at the time! The fact that they made an offer means they want to hire you, so they are ready to do a little work to make sure you say yes.
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Jul 9, 2015 02:20
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Thanks for all that. What seems like a lot of money for me may not be the case for a large company and it helps to have things put in perspective from their side of things. One thing I want to elaborate on: my current retirement plan is loving fantastic. I have a 403(b) with an employer contribution of 10% gross salary, immediately vested, no match or anything required on my part. Even with my much lower pay currently it ends up being a lot of free money. My new rate of 3% just can't compete with that so I will be paying a lot more out of pocket to get the same contributions. How much of this information do I disclose with them? Beyond just informing them that I'd be leaving behind a better plan, will it help to let them know flat-out that I'm getting that 10% currently?
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Jul 9, 2015 07:09
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In a situation I'd like some advice on... Little background, I'm a claims adjuster for a large commercial insurer. I started in June of last year as a 'trainee' in their training program with 4 other people in my office at a rate of 45K/year. The training program lasts 18 months, through December 2015 and I had to sign a promissory note for the duration of it. After a month of training and getting licensed, I got put onto a team with a heavier (literally 2x) workload than the other trainees and that's where I've been since last year. I did receive a small raise, putting me at 46K, at the start of this year. The team I'm currently on handles the western states. Recently, I applied for a position on the team that handles the Eastern states and was offered it. When I received the offer letter it was for 47K. I asked the manager for 52K (market rate looks to be around 50k) and the manager told me 47K was locked in for trainees and there wasn't anything I or he could do. He told me to reach out to his boss if I wanted to discuss it further. A couple things I should add before my questions: -AFAIK, there isn't anything I read regarding compensation being structured like this in the training program. -I'm the only trainee with experience handling these types of claims. The material isn't difficult but if they hired someone else there would be a lag period where they learn how to do it, probably a few weeks to a month or two -if I don't take this promotion, I will automatically be promoted at the end of the training program (December 2015) -I'm currently non-exempt and it is strictly verboten for me to work over 40 hrs/week. If I take the promotion, I'll lose that 'perk.' - I'm under no illusion that I'm sort of superman or anything, the market rate appears to be right around 50k; i asked for 52 in the negotiation Now I have 2 questions, 1.) Is he loving with me by appealing to authority? I think he is being honest in that he didnt have alot of control with trainees but I figured they would have a budget pool to use. It seemed like such a cop out. 2.) Assuming he isn't and 47K is the only offer, am I dumb for wanting to turn down the offer and stay where I'm at? Shats Basoon fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 15:48
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Teeter posted:Thanks for all that. What seems like a lot of money for me may not be the case for a large company and it helps to have things put in perspective from their side of things. I think it's to your advantage to disclose the terms plan. It's a big portion of your current compensation and you would be giving it up, and it allows you to ask for something that compensates for that specific loss in pay.
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Jul 9, 2015 16:16
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Is it appropriate to negotiate over e-mail? For example, I got a job offer, which was an email of "Hey SgtScruffy, you've got the job! Ill call you at 2 PM and we'll talk specifics!" Then I talked to him on the phone, and he listed all the benfits and salary and such. I was a little lukewarm on the salary, but with everything else added in it's not bad. He then sent me an email recap of everything So now I basically want to say "OK I like everything, the only thing holding me back is the base salary - can you up it by like 5% and I'd be happy?" - should I do that via email, or should I e-mail him asking for some time to speak on the phone about a question I have? I'm generally more introverted on the phone so my preference would be e-mail to just send it and wait for him to respond, but I didn't know if that's a general faux pas.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:01
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Write it out. Don't do it over the phone, you want a paper trail. You can call him and tell him you're sending an e-mail with some questions.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:04
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Shats Basoon posted:In a situation I'd like some advice on... What does your promotion after you get out of the training period look like if you turn this down? If you jump over to the other group, are you locked at 47K even after you stop being a trainee? What will your workload look like if you transferred vs. sticking it out? There are some mitigating factors, but I think you should talk to his boss to get some clarification on the compensation schedule. That might be a real rule, who knows, but a 2 percent bump in pay is hardly anything and the extra $1,000 a year will probably feel pretty negligible. I'd say if the workload is going to be better for you for the few months until you stop being a trainee than you should make the move, but definitely get them to commit to reviewing your compensation once your trainee status would normally end.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:40
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Teeter posted:Thanks for all that. What seems like a lot of money for me may not be the case for a large company and it helps to have things put in perspective from their side of things. Consider their offer in terms of all-in comp (they will). Total up the value of salary, retirement contributions, benefits, vacation and other things and compare on that basis. In your case take your old comp plus 10% (plus value of any other benefits) and compare to new comp plus 3% (plus value of any other benefits). Or your new employer needs to pay you 7% more than your old one just to be equal! You can absolutely use this to your advantage. 'Thanks for the offer and I'm excited to work here but, in addition to my research into comparable positions, I've noted that your firm is providing 7% less retirement contribution than my current employer. Considering the total compensation package I'd be prepared to accept $X if you think you could revise your offer to that level.' Or something like that.
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Jul 10, 2015 01:39
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Baby Babbeh posted:What does your promotion after you get out of the training period look like if you turn this down? If you jump over to the other group, are you locked at 47K even after you stop being a trainee? What will your workload look like if you transferred vs. sticking it out? It's essentially a lateral move. Slight increase in pay, probably a slight increase in workload. I'd have to get licensed in the other states but that would be paid by the company and also wouldn't be hard. I would no longer be a trainee. I did ask to speak with his boss but his boss has been out of the country for the last week and will be next week as well so that probably won't happen. The end of the training period is at the end of the year so there would be a performance review where I'd probably get a small raise like last year but to my knowledge there is no specific end-of-training-program review. Thinking I should just take it and put my head down until the end of the year and look for an exit outta claims like I was planning to do anyway
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Jul 10, 2015 16:39
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Ended up getting $2k more in base salary. It's still a little less than I wanted, but I'm still happy to be getting an early promotion, a more interesting job, and a 14% increase in base / 17% in total comp (up from their initial offer of 11% base / 14% total). After being at this company for a year, I've gotten a 25% increase in total comp and a promotion. I also just realized that this means I will have doubled my pay in exactly 3 years of working full-time. I've negotiated 3 times in 3 years and I've gotten at least something every time, either a base salary increase higher than their initial offer, or a signing bonus. Yay negotiating! Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. I'm still left wondering if I should have countered their counter-offer a second time, but I didn't want to seem too pushy, or start off on the wrong foot with my new manager just so I could get another $1k-2k. I really do think the revised offer is fair since, internally, this puts me slightly below average, but I have much less experience than everyone else in the same job and should still hit the average base salary next year after my annual raise.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:08
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So after what I thought were two hilariously bad interviews I got an offer. I wasn't too confident on the offer they were going to make so I made an initial offer of $60,000. They came back with $53,000 stating that my technical interview wasn't that great but I have lots of potential and that's why they countered with what they did. I completely agree that my interview was garbage and they are essentially acting on faith. How do I go about asking for more knowing this information and being in this situation? Overall it's a slight bump in pay to what I make now but I'd be completely happy with 55,000. The going from permatemp to full time with benefits is the main draw here so I guess I'm not too terribly worried if they say no.
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Jul 10, 2015 20:44
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I'd just ask for it pretty directly. It's only a $2k difference from their offer, I suspect they'll just say yes.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:49
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