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Elman posted:The Ottomans lose their lucky nation status and the Janissaries in the 1700s, though. Do they actually LOSE lucky status when the year ticks to 1700? Or do they just not get it if you start after 1700? Big difference.
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Jun 21, 2015 23:19
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| # ? May 12, 2024 19:20 |
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A tip if you're like me and you get irrationally angry at the Italy decision forcing you into being a monarchy: it lets you keep your previous government type if you're a theocratic government. I think that I would probably grade Aquileia as a 'challenging start' since you're an OPM vassal of Venice but on the plus side they usually have a lot of enemies who might be able to be enticed into helping you break free.
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Jun 22, 2015 00:07
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About to play this since the DLC/Patch dropped. Can anyone give me a quick primer? I've been a bit out of pocket, all I've heard is that the new Patch basically remakes the entire game or some poo poo and it has awful reviews on Steam.
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Jun 22, 2015 00:38
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Is there any way to see the details of a war you're not involved in? Things like the wargoal and battle history and stuff. I know you can see the warscore on the diplomacy screen but I can't figure out how to see any more details.
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Jun 22, 2015 01:05
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:About to play this since the DLC/Patch dropped. Can anyone give me a quick primer? I've been a bit out of pocket, all I've heard is that the new Patch basically remakes the entire game or some poo poo and it has awful reviews on Steam. The new Development mechanic converts roughly 1 basetax into 2.5 development, coring is 10 ADM per development and claims only reduce by 10% so coring is more expensive. Diplo-annexation is fully twice as expensive as before. Combined that means you'll be expanding more slowly and that's generally what the tantrums are about. You can spend MPs to develop provinces but this is pretty expensive for non-Western nations. Forts in friendly territory exert a zone of control that cannot be passed until you siege down the fort. Un-fortified provinces can be sieged in one month and leaving armies sitting there will loot it for gold like in CK2. Forts can be huge manpower drains to take and similarly you can attrite a lot of enemies on them. Religious conversion is easier due to changes in the formula relative to Development. The loss of +1 Diplomat, +1 relations, +leader slots from the unique Embassy and War College etc buildings really hurts. Protestantism owns really hard. England and France no longer start in the middle of the HYW. New mechanics for Buddhists.
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Jun 22, 2015 01:05
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Pellisworth posted:The new Development mechanic converts roughly 1 basetax into 2.5 development, coring is 10 ADM per development and claims only reduce by 10% so coring is more expensive. Diplo-annexation is fully twice as expensive as before. Combined that means you'll be expanding more slowly and that's generally what the tantrums are about. You can spend MPs to develop provinces but this is pretty expensive for non-Western nations. So what's the run around? Just makes you focus on tech that reduces core costs if you want to expand that way? Seems like it kinda pushes you to have more Marches as well. So if you want to take out a big country, like Lithuania, you have to take out forts one by one before you can get to their capital? How does that affect war? Seems like it might stink if I have to devote my entire stack to fighting on one fort instead of attacking their stacks. I guess putting forts in forest/mountain provinces is probably the best idea now?
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Jun 22, 2015 01:31
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:So what's the run around? Just makes you focus on tech that reduces core costs if you want to expand that way? Fort ZOC only extends to adjacent provinces, so before you can take a country's capital you'll usually have to siege down a fort or two but you won't have to siege every fort first. It affects war quite dramatically--I just held off the entire HRE as a not very big Prussia by using interlocking forts. the terrain type of a province is going to generally be subordinate to its geographical location in terms of fort placement prioritizing. I've found that I need a fort where I need a fort, terrain doesn't usually come into my decision making.
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Jun 22, 2015 01:56
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:So what's the run around? Just makes you focus on tech that reduces core costs if you want to expand that way? Well, the overall change is you can now develop vertically by improving your province development, but expanding "wide" is slower. I should've mentioned AE is reduced relative to before the patch, so if you do want to conquer a ton of provinces something like Admin is really crucial and Influence is still excellent but a little less so. Yes, and another small change was that there's no cap on Marches, plus with the new vassal interactions you can force them to switch religion and so on. It is indeed hugely valuable to just feed up a strong March or two even if you never intend to integrate them. Offensive wars I usually focus on the important forts to take my wargoals. Detach siege on the fort, move the rest of the army to wealthy unfortified neighbor provinces and loot them for mad cash while you siege. Use merc infantry for siege, use lots of mercs. You'll probably end up knocking down a few forts and peacing out, I feel like this makes wars shorter since you're only sieging a couple forts, but they're bloodier. Defensive wars if you have a well-placed line of forts you can just sit your armies behind them and let the AI eat attrition. Then assemble your armies at your leisure to relieve sieges that are close to finishing. Since Forts occupy one of a limited number of building slots per province and you want to maximize attrition, I generally try to put them in low-development provinces I don't plan on investing in. Personally I think having good Zone of Control coverage to restrict enemy troop movement might be more important than the terrain of where you put them. edit: Sharzak posted:Fort ZOC only extends to adjacent provinces, so before you can take a country's capital you'll usually have to siege down a fort or two but you won't have to siege every fort first. It affects war quite dramatically--I just held off the entire HRE as a not very big Prussia by using interlocking forts. the terrain type of a province is going to generally be subordinate to its geographical location in terms of fort placement prioritizing. I've found that I need a fort where I need a fort, terrain doesn't usually come into my decision making. Chokepoints are also really good, for example Holstein Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jun 22, 2015 |
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Jun 22, 2015 02:02
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That being said, it is amazing to see your enemies bleed themselves on level 4 forts in the alps.
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Jun 22, 2015 02:05
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Note that the fort system makes the game pretty "interesting" for someone like Muscovy/Russia who has a huge number of fairly weak provinces. They seem to do really poorly with Common Sense, they just have way too many provinces for good fort coverage especially in Siberia. Every time they fight someone in Asia most of their territory gets occupied rapidly, the only thing that can hold out for long is the central Moscow region they seem to fortify well. Russian winter doesn't really work as a strategic element if you have a hard time affording the forts to defend your long rear end border 
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Jun 22, 2015 02:10
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Do I still want to spam temples? ed lol No idea group until 5.
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Jun 22, 2015 02:19
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:Do I still want to spam temples? Only in high base tax provinces. I haven't bothered where base tax is 4 or less. Production building seem like more of a moneymaker now too.
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Jun 22, 2015 02:25
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Pellisworth posted:Note that the fort system makes the game pretty "interesting" for someone like Muscovy/Russia who has a huge number of fairly weak provinces. They seem to do really poorly with Common Sense, they just have way too many provinces for good fort coverage especially in Siberia. Every time they fight someone in Asia most of their territory gets occupied rapidly, the only thing that can hold out for long is the central Moscow region they seem to fortify well. Russian winter doesn't really work as a strategic element if you have a hard time affording the forts to defend your long rear end border In real life, the hordes literally ran circles around them until they got smart and just built tons of forts. Guess what you should be doing as Muscovy/Novgorod? These provinces have such massively low supply limit, especially in winter, that even a plain castle on your border is extremely punishing to the enemy. This patch basically made every country feel like fighting Switzerland/Russia/Ethiopia, and now those three are just insane.
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Jun 22, 2015 02:26
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Can someone explain to me what is meant by a "vertical" nation?
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Jun 22, 2015 02:31
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:Only in high base tax provinces. I haven't bothered where base tax is 4 or less. Production building seem like more of a moneymaker now too. Personally, I have the exact opposite experience. Temples consistently provide more money in my provinces over the production buildings, for everything except the most valuable trade goods. I really appreciate that they changed the display to show how much more money you make monthly, as opposed to yearly. It helps a ton when evaluating the exact benefit of doing something over something else.
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Jun 22, 2015 02:34
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Konig posted:Can someone explain to me what is meant by a "vertical" nation? A small nation with super rich provinces, equal in power to a large nation with less developed ones. So instead of spending your points on conquering and coring, you're spending them on cranking up the development of your provinces. No idea how 'competitive' it is, or how it compares in practice to traditional blobbing.
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Jun 22, 2015 02:45
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Fintilgin posted:A small nation with super rich provinces, equal in power to a large nation with less developed ones. So instead of spending your points on conquering and coring, you're spending them on cranking up the development of your provinces. Ah so something like non-colonising England or Japan, sounds cool and very much in line with how I like to play, might have to buy this new DLC!
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Jun 22, 2015 02:55
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alcaras posted:Why can we still not tab/swipe out of EU4 on Macs Inshallah Paradox will add this functionality some day. I would pay five bucks for a DLC that did this and nothing else.
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Jun 22, 2015 03:05
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Pellisworth posted:Note that the fort system makes the game pretty "interesting" for someone like Muscovy/Russia who has a huge number of fairly weak provinces. They seem to do really poorly with Common Sense, they just have way too many provinces for good fort coverage especially in Siberia. Every time they fight someone in Asia most of their territory gets occupied rapidly, the only thing that can hold out for long is the central Moscow region they seem to fortify well. Russian winter doesn't really work as a strategic element if you have a hard time affording the forts to defend your long rear end border Yeah, lacking a coast to funnel land units, the fort system favor bizarre expansion. Pretty Border Society has gained casus belli Diplomatic Insult against Common Sense. Contrecoup fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Jun 22, 2015 |
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Jun 22, 2015 03:05
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Does provincal tax affect anything else now? I am just wondering if there are any other considerations to make. For example, if the temple is 100 gold, and gives you an extra .13 gold per month in a province then it will take about 64 years to break even with your investment, which could be worth it or not, but if base tax has some other benefits it might be worth considering.
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Jun 22, 2015 03:12
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Konig posted:Ah so something like non-colonising England or Japan, sounds cool and very much in line with how I like to play, might have to buy this new DLC! You probably want to do some of each. Take Economic because it's great all around but also has -20% Development cost, then eventually you can build Universities for another -20% per province. Even with those bonuses however, the gain from buying development is hugely more than coring or integrating a province; the base is 50 + terrain and other modifiers +1% per development. You want to be strategic about your development, buy production in valuable trades good provinces, manpower in lovely grain but same-culture, tax in same-culture, etc.
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Jun 22, 2015 03:12
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Pellisworth posted:You probably want to do some of each. Take Economic because it's great all around but also has -20% Development cost, then eventually you can build Universities for another -20% per province. Even with those bonuses however, the gain from buying development is hugely more than coring or integrating a province; the base is 50 + terrain and other modifiers +1% per development. You want to be strategic about your development, buy production in valuable trades good provinces, manpower in lovely grain but same-culture, tax in same-culture, etc. Yeah I've sort of cooled off on min-maxing a 1st place-getting nation and more about creating something fun/interesting to play, but sounds good!
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Jun 22, 2015 03:16
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So I decided to play Naples and immediately got Castile, England, and France to support my independence war against Aragon. Things were going great until I found out I had accumulated 85 aggressive expansion by doing so and got a coalition war declared on me within the first five minutes of the game. Is this supposed to happen?
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Jun 22, 2015 04:01
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Do you still get random events that give you core on enemy provinces? Cause this 200 admin off the loving bat is crazy. I even gotta core Granada as Castille.
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Jun 22, 2015 04:13
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i thought that was only ever as hordes
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Jun 22, 2015 04:15
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I've seen shots where the Ottomans haven't even bothered to take Byzantium by 1500. How can I get those Ottomans? Not even a single country wants to coalition them. At first I thought it was good that they were ignoring me and going west but at this point I think if I continued all I would be doing is sitting and waiting till they get a mission to take the last crusader bastions and it'd be over.
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Jun 22, 2015 04:19
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So I was trying to get the Sultan of Rum achievement before Common Sense launched, which was a bad idea as the save obviously didn't transfer. But its so much easier now when you can snake up through Circassia, the Golden Horde and take Moscow in a single war without getting over 100% overextension or much aggressive expansion at all. Nothing like strangling the Russian menace in the grave.
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Jun 22, 2015 04:32
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I'm playing the Papal States and it seems the dlc added LOTS of events to them and they're really cool. One set of events involves rebuilding the former glory of the church that lets you choose various permanent bonuses like -5% tech costs and +5% discipline. The other set of events involves combating the reform desire. You get a choice between lowering the reform desire by 10% and also stopping all catholic nations from getting a certain event that usually raises the reform desire and also a -1 stability hit to yourself, or you can choose gently caress that get a +5 yearly ducat income. Of course I chose the income choice every time and now a protestant centre of reformation spawned on Mantua and protestant is spreading through northern italy and my lands 
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Jun 22, 2015 04:37
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Mr.Morgenstern posted:So I decided to play Naples and immediately got Castile, England, and France to support my independence war against Aragon. Things were going great until I found out I had accumulated 85 aggressive expansion by doing so and got a coalition war declared on me within the first five minutes of the game. Is this supposed to happen? Did you take all of Sicily in the peace? It has really high development so you eat poo poo if you try to take it all at once.
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Jun 22, 2015 04:59
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Yashichi posted:Did you take all of Sicily in the peace? It has really high development so you eat poo poo if you try to take it all at once. I didn't even finish the war. They attacked me while I was still fighting.
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Jun 22, 2015 05:07
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My march won't cede occupation of a province to me. I don't know why, but I think it might be because they have claims there. I hope this isn't WAD because it's kind of annoying.
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Jun 22, 2015 05:11
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Yes vassals keep occupation of claims/cores. And then they get angry when you don't give them a province in the treaty.
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Jun 22, 2015 05:14
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Frontspac posted:I don't know why, but I think it might be because they have claims there. Pretty sure that's exactly it.
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Jun 22, 2015 05:14
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Mr.Morgenstern posted:I didn't even finish the war. They attacked me while I was still fighting. Naples may start the game with a truce with Aragon, and something tells me that there might be some case for added AE on truce-break the more -stab conditions you fill. I haven't broken a truce in a long rear end time, though, so I very well could be wrong there. 80 AE is massive though, Sicily wouldn't even be close to that much, you could eat half of Austria and still be under 80.
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Jun 22, 2015 05:15
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Any ally, march or othewise, won't cede a claim since they want the land and all. e: beaten worse than an Ottoman rival
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Jun 22, 2015 05:16
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:Do you still get random events that give you core on enemy provinces? Yes, I got it as Jaunpur yesterday. It is super rare though. Common Sense really raises the value of Administrative ideas early game to get that 25% coring cost reduction. Economic for the development reduction can wait until at least your third, maybe fourth idea, since doing any development at all before universities is wasted monarch points unless you are an OPM. Growing outwards is more important for most games, so those admin points you save in the long run are totally worth it. Also, forming Bharat as the Hindustani culture group is just cruel, it asks you to reach faaar further out than any other culture group in India. As far West as Roh, as far south as some province in Gujarat. Whereas for Dravidian you just need to beat up your equal footing neighbour and some OPMs, West Aryan asks you to grow outwards a bit, and East Aryan barely asks you to grow at all, Hindustani kinda asks a hell of a lot more of you. You will need to fight Delhi, who starts off equal, and after 2 months of ingame time, stronger, Malwa with their god leader (5/6/6 or something like that) and 2 vassals, Orissa for their vassals land, and you will almost definitely come to blows with Bahmanis because they will ally all of the Muslims you need to fight. Bengal will guaranteed rival you, so expect them to come knocking too. Oh, and by the time you get to reaching Roh the Timurids will probably have it, and be at their strongest. I got it by 1560, but wow was it one hell of a fight upwards to get there. I faced a Peasants War because I spent so long with no manpower and also fought a hell coalition of everyone in India who was not my vassal or a severely weakened Vijaynagar (which I won, barely). I think I might have a fort in every other province, just because Bahmanis was so strong for such a long time. Also, I thought Bharat would have given me a cultural union and made Indian all accepted. It did not. Does Hindustan do that? If so, I hosed up by being Hindu.
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Jun 22, 2015 05:22
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Trujillo posted:I've seen shots where the Ottomans haven't even bothered to take Byzantium by 1500. How can I get those Ottomans? Attacking Hungary generally doesn't incur much aggressive expansion. The amount of AE you get is modified by three things mainly, the region you're in (like "Italy" or "central europe" there's a map mode for this), the other countries that share the same religion, and the culture group. Since Hungary is pretty much it's own map region, and it doesn't have any other cultures in its culture group, you just have the base AE from other countries that share it's religion, which is pretty small.
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Jun 22, 2015 06:05
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Vanilla Mint Ice posted:Yes vassals keep occupation of claims/cores. And then they get angry when you don't give them a province in the treaty. The relations penalty makes sense, but it seems a little awkward to have to race your own vassals to occupy territory first -- especially since you can't keep them out of a war like allies. It might be too fiddly and awkward for this game, but some kind of dedicated mechanic around disputes between allies over peace negotiations/divvying up spoils would be kinda neat. Nitrousoxide posted:
Maybe that modifier should get a buff if the country taking the AE hit is from a different religious group? It's good to see Ottomans going bigger in Europe, but it should probably provoke a bit more of a reaction than that from the Christian Europeans (or at least the Austrians and Poles.)
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Jun 22, 2015 06:33
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Looking for a quick answer before the Steam sale expires. I currently have Art of War and Wealth of Nations. I have just enough money left in my steam wallet to pick up Common Sense or a couple of the older DLC. Any thoughts on what would be a better choice?
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Jun 22, 2015 06:50
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| # ? May 12, 2024 19:20 |
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  Oh god the Reformation happened 25 years ahead of its historical schedule and Europe is burning. I might just be the worst Pope ever  But maybe in certain eyes I might be the best pope ever 
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Jun 22, 2015 07:10
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