|
Not a lot of love for Chocolate Doom eh? People make fun of it in this thread as a "hipster vinyl warm pixels" thing all the time. Not saying it's the superior choice or something stupid like that--gotta get your Deemonsteele and part of the fun of Doom is the ridiculous variety now available--but I do find it makes portions of the Doom 1-2 campaigns scarier, if that's an effect you're looking for. The hyper clarity of high res gameplay sorta makes the whole thing seem a lot clearer and more manageable, which makes the tech base mazes especially seem less tense and claustrophobic.
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2015 23:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 04:35 |
|
|
The levels and lighting were designed for 320x240 or so displays, down to the muddy visuals and extremely dark corridors. It's reasonable to want to play on chocolate doom if you want to play it how id intended. I think the ultra clean visuals and modifications on modern source ports take away from the game a lot.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2015 23:08
|
|
|
The main reason I don't play chocolate doom is that PRBoom+ already gives me perfect recreation of the rules of vanilla gameplay if I want it, and also BOOM map extensions when I don't.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2015 23:12
|
|
|
Infinitely tall actors really is a bug/engine quirk though, since monsters do have a defined height. I can't think of any level of Cyberdreams that would require it but I definitely didn't finish that wad! I've waffled between having the setting on/off since it does make swarms of Cacodemons more threatening just because they physically block you from doing anything, but I've decided to stick with my reasoning above. Also, crowdsurfing a demon horde owns.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2015 23:44
|
|
reinardus vulpes posted:Not a lot of love for Chocolate Doom eh? People make fun of it in this thread as a "hipster vinyl warm pixels" thing all the time. Chocolate Doom is great and until Doom Retro came into existence it was my port of choice. Nowadays Doom Retro does everything Chocolate Doom does while also adding some graphical flourishes (like blue and green blood for cacodemons and barons) and some other nice extras.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2015 23:45
|
|
|
Segmentation Fault posted:Chocolate Doom is great and until Doom Retro came into existence it was my port of choice. Nowadays Doom Retro does everything Chocolate Doom does while also adding some graphical flourishes (like blue and green blood for cacodemons and barons) and some other nice extras. Didn't know about Doom Retro. Thanks.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2015 23:49
|
|
reinardus vulpes posted:Didn't know about Doom Retro. Thanks. It's only for Windows at the moment, but the developer is quite friendly and approachable if you have any issues. Him and I just found a few bugs regarding mouse wheel weapon selection and music playback.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2015 23:52
|
|
|
Doom rpg and RL arsenal are fun. Community chest 4 is fun. The two combed are even more fun. THEN  What?   WHAT   WHY!  Really conveys the  feeling of roguelikes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2015 23:58
|
|
|
Geight posted:Infinitely tall actors really is a bug/engine quirk though, since monsters do have a defined height. I can't think of any level of Cyberdreams that would require it but I definitely didn't finish that wad!
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 00:01
|
|
|
Lork posted:I don't know anything special about Cyberdreams, I'm just assuming the cyberdemon stepped out from under/over something that would've blocked it in the old engine. This shouldn't have any bearing, as "infinite actor height" really just means that an actor can't pass over or under another actor. Monsters in Doom have a defined height, which determines if they can fit past a low-hanging ceiling or other architecture, and when a crusher ceiling should start hurting them. I'm reasonably confident that infinite actor height would have no effect on Cyberdreams.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 00:34
|
|
|
All this time I was assuming "Cyberdreams" was referencing the series of WADs where you fist the cyberdemons until they cum until I actually googled "cyberdreams wad"
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 00:43
|
|
|
Klaus88 posted:Doom rpg and RL arsenal are fun. that looks really neat(what exactly is Community Chest 4?)
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 01:05
|
|
|
drrockso20 posted:that looks really neat(what exactly is Community Chest 4?) The community chest wads are a series of wads made by a large group of doomworld (?) community members. There have been 4 of them. The maps are generall pretty large and grandiose, and aren't really designed for continuous play at all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 01:17
|
|
|
Geight posted:This shouldn't have any bearing, as "infinite actor height" really just means that an actor can't pass over or under another actor. Monsters in Doom have a defined height, which determines if they can fit past a low-hanging ceiling or other architecture, and when a crusher ceiling should start hurting them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 01:19
|
|
|
I feel like Community Chests 3 and 4 are significantly better than 1 and 2, and that 4 is a really impressive assortment of maps in general. CC1 and 2 have a bunch of maps that are just...not very good in general, so if you haven't played any of them, it seems like the latter two are a good place to start.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 01:26
|
|
|
Zedsdeadbaby posted:The levels and lighting were designed for 320x240 or so displays, down to the muddy visuals and extremely dark corridors. It's reasonable to want to play on chocolate doom if you want to play it how id intended. I think the ultra clean visuals and modifications on modern source ports take away from the game a lot.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 01:55
|
|
|
Shadow Hog posted:I think Carmack's on record as saying he would've supported higher resolutions in Doom had he had the time? Yeah, they would have gone for 640x480 if they'd had the time and a suitable install base that could handle it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 02:02
|
|
|
Shadow Hog posted:I think Carmack's on record as saying he would've supported higher resolutions in Doom had he had the time?
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 02:14
|
|
|
I find that it enhances my experience to have distant textures/sprites not look like pixelly poo poo on a modern monitor  And sorry if that sounds pejorative; I'm not telling anyone else what to like, I'm just saying how I experience it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 02:17
|
|
|
Speaking of which, are there any source ports that have an option to attempt to emulate the processing slowdowns for various DOOM release computer setups. Like you'd set the "crappy 386 sx" swtich and then you have to run it with the shrunken screen in most WADs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 02:22
|
|
|
Nintendo Kid posted:Speaking of which, are there any source ports that have an option to attempt to emulate the processing slowdowns for various DOOM release computer setups. Like you'd set the "crappy 386 sx" swtich and then you have to run it with the shrunken screen in most WADs. I don't have an educational answer for you, and I get what you're going for, but that sounds like a colossal waste of time. "Come here, kids... This is what Doom used to play like... pixelated molasses!"
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 03:11
|
|
|
Rupert Buttermilk posted:I don't have an educational answer for you, and I get what you're going for, but that sounds like a colossal waste of time. Mostly it would be interesting for someone trying to do "real vanilla" where the thing can't slow down too badly on an average release-window PC.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 03:13
|
|
|
Nintendo Kid posted:Mostly it would be interesting for someone trying to do "real vanilla" where the thing can't slow down too badly on an average release-window PC. Hmm, you'd probably have to run the original release through DosBox, setting the virtual machine settings to something similar to whatever your machine was back in the day. I doubt there's a port that gives those kinds of options.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 03:16
|
|
|
honestly if you're getting to that point why don't you just build your own vintage PC and be done with it
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 03:31
|
|
|
I recently replayed Quake 1 and Quake 2 and I feel that, overall, Quake 1 is the better game. Q2 single player is kinda weird. The first half has uninteresting map design (endless warehouses woo!) and you have too little ammo for your cool guns to really do some damage, but as soon as you reach the Factory hub, the game really starts to pick up, with the Palace hub being the best area in the entire game. However, it lacks the verticality that makes Q1's default maps so fun, so most of the time you're fighting generic enemies in boring corridors instead of the interesting map design that had things like enemies attacking on multiple floors. The monsters are very boring compared to Q1's; Quake 1's monsters encourage you to frantically move around by denying you space with things like Fiend pounces and Vore bombs, while Quake 2's enemies are about strafing left and right instead of constantly moving. Q2 multiplayer lacks Q1's snappiness and extremly arcade-y MP gameplay. The Rocket Launcher nerf takes a bit of fun out of the game because of how slow rockets are now, the rebalanced armor makes it far less useful than it was before to the point where most of it is useful just for not getting OHKOed from a Railgun shot, the weapon switch delay seems to exist just to get you killed, and I feel the Railgun takes away from the close-quarters chaos that makes early iD games shine. It's not bad at all; it just lacks the adrenneline that Quake 1's multiplayer has. I feel that, unlike Q1, most of the DM maps aren't good. The only maps that I reallly enjoyed were Q2DM1 and Q2DM2; the rest felt like they either didn't flow well, were uninteresting visually, were too big, or had bad gameplay. Q2DM feels like iD was overreacting to complaints about Quake 1 at the time instead of actually refining Q1's DM. Some of Q2's weapons are better than Quake 1's. The Q2 Super Shotgun is a beast that has a very meaty firing sound, the Rialgun looks and feels cool when it fires, and the minigun is a complete mosnter of a weapon that really makes it feel like you're using a minigun instead of an assault rifle using a minigun sprite *COUGH*Doom*COUGH*. The Rocket Launcher is just awful compared to the Q2 one because of how slow it's rockets are and the goofy firing sound that sounds more like a vacuume being used than firing a rocket launcher at some fucker. The rest of the weapons are fine, but they aren't as satisfying as Quake 1's weapons because they have weaker sounds and don't feel as powerful. I feel that Quake 2 lacks a bit of the fun and frantic pacing that Quake 1 has. Don't get me wrong; Quake 2 is still a fast-paced game, but it lacks the balls-to-the-walls speed and charm that makes Quake 1's gameplay so memorable. It's pretty telling that, in several Q2 matches, I spent most of time time either picking bots off with the Railgun, rushing them with the Super Shotgun, or lobbing explosives into groups. However, in the single Q1DM match I played afterwards, I was juggling bots with the Rocket Launcher, being killed by well-placed rockets, chucking enemies and being chucked into a void, and zooming around like crazy so I could snag an armor as soon as it spawned.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 04:10
|
|
|
Segmentation Fault posted:honestly if you're getting to that point why don't you just build your own vintage PC and be done with it I wish someone would come up with a compact vintage-PC-in-a-box thing because I really want to do this but I also really don't want to set up a whole new desktop workstation.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 04:14
|
|
|
Just install Doom on computers at the library or some other public service place, boom vintage gameplay.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 04:15
|
|
|
Buy some 1997-1998 laptops and enjoy your vintage Doom in a smaller form factor.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 04:19
|
|
|
closeted republican posted:I recently replayed Quake 1 and Quake 2 and I feel that, overall, Quake 1 is the better game. Quake 1 was a mess of development but lead to interesting things. id has never been good at putting together games with a unified plot or theme hence why Q2 is kind of boring. I love Q2 but really this love comes from my summers when I stayed up playing Q2 mods online such as Loki Minion's CTF, Jailbreak, Action Q2, Weapons Factory, Weapons of Mass Destruction, Qpong, Red Rover, etc. Sure Q1 had mods also but it seemed at the time Q2 just blew up with what you could do with the engine. Nowadays I play more Q1 than Q2, but sometimes I do like to play Q2 DM, which people still play.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 04:20
|
|
|
SPACE HOMOS posted:Quake 1 was a mess of development but lead to interesting things. id has never been good at putting together games with a unified plot or theme hence why Q2 is kind of boring. I love Q2 but really this love comes from my summers when I stayed up playing Q2 mods online such as Loki Minion's CTF, Jailbreak, Action Q2, Weapons Factory, Weapons of Mass Destruction, Qpong, Red Rover, etc. Sure Q1 had mods also but it seemed at the time Q2 just blew up with what you could do with the engine. Nowadays I play more Q1 than Q2, but sometimes I do like to play Q2 DM, which people still play. That's my feeling as well. Vanilla Q2DM is watered-down and slower compared to Quake 1 DM, but Q2's mods are what makes it shine. I'm currently playing Action Quake 2 with bots, and it's a lot more fun and frantic compared to vanilla Q2DM. It's like someone grabbed an early Counter-Strike prototype and injected pure heroin into it. Not surprising, since some of the AQ2 guys went on to make CS, but still.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 04:33
|
|
|
Elliotw2 posted:Buy some 1997-1998 laptops and enjoy your vintage Doom in a smaller form factor. This but like 2000-2001 laptops. They're significantly less chunky and the screen is usually able to actually handle motion. That aside, back in the day Unisys made a ton of mini desktop 486 machines with sound and good VGA video built-in.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 04:49
|
|
|
I have a fun Doom story guys. Another grad student in my lab is designing his own x86-compatible processor from scratch. Part of the process of evaluating his architecture is running all sorts of benchmarks on a simulated version of the CPU. One of them is straight up booting DOS and running timedemo3 on the original DOOM.EXE. Doom is a good testcase for non-floating-point stuff, because it doesn't use any FP instructions. He was noticing weird performance behavior when comparing two designs for his L1/L2 cache hierarchy. Case A was a 256kb L1 cache and no L2 cache. Case B was a smaller L1 cache and a 256KB L2 cache. Case A should obviously run faster, since L1 cache is so much faster than L2 cache. However, out of all the benchmarks, the Doom timedemo was the odd one out (it was SLOWER with the big L1 cache). He deduced that the only way this could be happening is if Doom was running self-modifying code. Lo and behold, that's exactly what Carmack was doing in the floor/ceiling rendering code: quote:00174022: ( ): add ebp, 0xf7b7fec8 ; 81c5c8feb7f7 edit: poo poo, table-breakage? It won't let me re-upload a smaller image. Sorry! Schmerm fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Jun 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 05:59
|
|
|
Interesting; yeah some Googling around shows that Doom is known to use self-modifying assembly in the R_DrawColumn and R_DrawSpan functions, but those weren't in the GPL source release (they were in tmap.S mentioned here: http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_source_code_files ). News to me. That wacky Carmack kid.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 06:50
|
|
|
Johnny Law posted:Interesting; yeah some Googling around shows that Doom is known to use self-modifying assembly in the R_DrawColumn and R_DrawSpan functions, but those weren't in the GPL source release (they were in tmap.S mentioned here: Doom wikia link ). News to me. That wacky Carmack kid. Just as a heads up, nobody credible runs that wiki anymore. The real Doom wiki is located at http://doomwiki.org/, and thus the page you wanted is here: http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_source_code_files
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 07:53
|
|
|
Yeah here's the ASM https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM/blob/master/linuxdoom-1.10/README.asm
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 07:58
|
|
|
Just finished Hexen:DotDC! It was wayyyy less confusing than regular Hexen and I liked some of the maps a lot more. I am playing Hexen II now and it's pretty cool how they handled the transition to 3D. Only odd thing is that move speed is faster when strafing for some reason. Feels really weird. I don't recall that in Q1  Also more poo poo to smash. Heck yeah! Nokiaman fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Jun 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 13:18
|
|
|
Nokiaman posted:Just finished Hexen:DotDC! It was wayyyy less confusing than regular Hexen and I liked some of the maps a lot more. If you've played a ton of Goldeneye/Perfect Dark 64, the 'faster when strafing' thing is totally normal.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 14:48
|
|
|
Isn't the faster-when-strafing thing in Doom as well? Not even getting into the whole SR40 vs SR50 thing; just running on a diagonal is faster than running straight.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 15:23
|
|
|
Shadow Hog posted:Isn't the faster-when-strafing thing in Doom as well? Yep. Consequently, it shows up in a ton of later FPSes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 16:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 04:35 |
|
|
Nokiaman posted:Just finished Hexen:DotDC! It was wayyyy less confusing than regular Hexen and I liked some of the maps a lot more. Got a link for that? I'd love to play some Hexen with less confusing maps.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 16:28
|
|
