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I have a bad feeling this sudden backlash over confederate iconology is going to end in a lot of self-satisfied kudos and little if any reflection as to why that same iconology was acceptable across most of the south up until last Friday. Or the fact that those GOP presidential candidates likely would have held on to those CCC donations had this shooting not occurred. Or why those GOP candidates received donations from such a racist organization to begin with. Or what, aside from confederate apologism and iconology, poisoned the mind of Dylann Roof.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:06
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If the TPP/TPA/whatever provisions state that the President has 5 years to negotiate its terms before putting it before Congress for a straight yes/no vote, doesn't that mean it's not Obama who'll be handling it? That seems like a big leap for something that's supposed to be part of his "legacy"this_is_hard posted:me, because she's absolutely a corporatist democrat and was literally on the board of walmart Walmart was the first to dump the selling of CSA merchandise (just flags?) though.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:06
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Its this bizarre gymnastics move that they seem to be trying to make. The flag started bad and was used for lots of bad stuff, but then we made it good and its just been innocuous good stuff for us for awhile, but then this jerk made it bad again so you need to address that but totally give us a pass on all those years we waved it around because we weren't bombing or shooting up black churches. Its this weird deal where a bunch of people woke up and suddenly realized they can't back the flag anymore but they still have to find a way to brush off all those years of doing it without acknowledging they were literally waving the same banner as all the racist assholes, and that it was their's first.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:07
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Hasters posted:So who's still saying she's not a New Deal/Great Society liberal at this point? I don't have a lot of problems with what Clinton says, I have problems with her character, her sources of campaign funding, parts of her political/legislative record, and the fact that she'd be a dynastic President. In other words, I don't trust her to execute wholeheartedly on her stated agenda, and I don't like the political trends she represents.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:07
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"Hey look, just because Wal Mart was literally jackbooting unions while I sat on their board of directors doesn't mean a thing. I didn't even go to the meetings! :iamafag:" ~ Hillary "Eleanor Roosevelt" Clinton, 2016 Candidate for President
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Jun 23, 2015 20:07
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Trabisnikof posted:UHC? this_is_hard posted:"Hey look, just because Wal Mart was literally jackbooting unions while I sat on their board of directors doesn't mean a thing.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:09
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Supraluminal posted:I don't have a lot of problems with what Clinton says, I have problems with her character, her sources of campaign funding, parts of her political/legislative record, and the fact that she'd be a dynastic President. In other words, I don't trust her to execute wholeheartedly on her stated agenda, and I don't like the political trends she represents. yep. On nearly every single policy she's basically the equivalent of Obama. On foreign policy she's significantly more hawkish. She will essentially be Obama except a tad bit more to the right.  quote:She could have been the most vocal supporter of rapprochement with unions on the planet, but if she's getting shut out by the rest of the board what can she do? Okay, so what you're saying is rather than speak up and say something she should do nothing and let bad things happen unopposed. Hillary Clinton, 2016 Candidate for President.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:11
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spacetoaster posted:We discussed earlier how this "cleansing" of the confederate battle flag is just some BS to make everyone feel better, but not to actually change anything. Mass destruction of symbols can create change, that's why we do it.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:11
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JT Jag posted:She could have been the most vocal supporter of rapprochement with unions on the planet, but if she's getting shut out by the rest of the board what can she do? Not serve on the board.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:11
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spacetoaster posted:We discussed earlier how this "cleansing" of the confederate battle flag is just some BS to make everyone feel better, but not to actually change anything. This is wrong. Symbols matter, and a public outcry over racist symbols is meaningful in terms of the modern discourse on race and the racial history of the country. While it's good to advocate for large change, small change is still vitally important and should be supported.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:13
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Zeroisanumber posted:Not serve on the board. Maybe she thought she could make a differeaahaha
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Jun 23, 2015 20:15
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Hasters posted:So who's still saying she's not a New Deal/Great Society liberal at this point? Trying to gloss over (and sometimes entrench) institutional racism to appease certain voting blocs? Yeah sounds about right.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:15
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kaxman posted:Maybe she thought she could make a differeaahaha It's basically The Clintons.txt. They're renown for valuing 'loyalty' and connections above all else, and is exactly why people are so distrustful of her and her husband's relationship with Clinton Foundation donors. Her serving on the board of Walmart is like ground zero for Arkansas inside political baseball and it doesn't shock me for one second that she didn't say jack poo poo when they did things that are polar opposite of what she claims to support publicly. The parallels with Clinton Foundation donors are obvious.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:17
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De-confederatization(150 years too late) is more than has been done over any of the other mass shootings, so... at least it's some form of progress. It's also nice for the people defending it to be told they don't matter, they are irrelevant. The "free market" slapping them down as everyone who wants any presence outside the american south recoils in horror is a nice bit of symbolism in itself.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:19
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JT Jag posted:The Confederacy is the butt-end of all these jokes because they lost. If they won, they'd have eventually become the United States' #1 trading partner and would have abolished slavery in, I dunno, let's say the 1960s. You know, if they miraculously didn't fall apart from all the debt, inflation and interstate trade conflict post-war. Had the CSA survived the high probability is they would have acted on this to try to mitigate economic damage, and as a result would have created a slave-empire. Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Jun 23, 2015 |
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Jun 23, 2015 20:19
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sugar free jazz posted:This is wrong. Symbols matter, and a public outcry over racist symbols is meaningful in terms of the modern discourse on race and the racial history of the country. While it's good to advocate for large change, small change is still vitally important and should be supported.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:20
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Fried Chicken posted:The Fire-Eaters had a very expansive set of foreign policy proposals, prior to 1860 they campaigned not only on the expansion of slavery into the new territories, but also for a U.S. Intervention into Cuba to prior up its slavery practices, intervention in Brazil to reinforce after the Mal'e revolt, the support of Texas in its breakaway from Mexico (on the basis of supporting slavery) and called for military aid to neighboring Caribbean and Central American slave states to preclude slave revolts. All true, and not to get into the age-old counterfactual about what an independent South would have actually looked like, but for my money I don't see the CSA surviving on its own due to its internal contradictions and, for lack of a better term, ornery nature of the various state governments. Hell, Georgia nearly re-seceded during the war over having to kick in war supplies for other confederate states. It seems likely to me that any major policy debate within the Confederate government could have easily provoked a new round of secessions, especially since the precedent would have then been set.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:27
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And here comes the final boom http://www.mediaite.com/online/amazon-to-pull-confederate-flag-merchandise-from-website/ Amazon is pulling all confederate merchandise Also this  5,466%
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Jun 23, 2015 20:29
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Countdown until a prominent voice on the right (either in media or a politician) comes out and complains that the whites are being persecuted by ~mainstream America~ shunning their hate-flag and oh it's so hard for a white Christian man in America today just look at those liberals at WalMart/Amazon/wherever stifling our free speech! oh I see Todd Starnes has already done this. well here's hoping one of the GOP candidates goes full neo-Confederate. my bony fealty fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jun 23, 2015 |
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Jun 23, 2015 20:31
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i dont like this praise that walmart & sears are getting just bc they're going to stop selling confederate flag merchandise now, like wow thanks for being halfway decent and letting the world know you’re finally gonna stop selling racist merchandise, how saintly of them. how about some dang healthcare or at least some respetc
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Jun 23, 2015 20:32
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:And here comes the final boom
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Jun 23, 2015 20:32
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Zeroisanumber posted:Not serve on the board. What exactly would that gain? How would the world be better if she didn't serve on that board? Besides improving the posting in this thread.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:33
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I can make my own confederate flag if I wanted to. hell, I can even make a sailor moon brooch
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Jun 23, 2015 20:33
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Captain_Maclaine posted:All true, and not to get into the age-old counterfactual about what an independent South would have actually looked like, but for my money I don't see the CSA surviving on its own due to its internal contradictions and, for lack of a better term, ornery nature of the various state governments. Hell, Georgia nearly re-seceded during the war over having to kick in war supplies for other confederate states. It seems likely to me that any major policy debate within the Confederate government could have easily provoked a new round of secessions, especially since the precedent would have then been set. Well the noted resistance to providing war supplies lead to confederate officers stepping in to assume control of those industries so the supplies would keep coming. In my assumptions of a surviving CSA I assume that this sort of arrangement remains in place and you have a one party state with nominal control of the military with said military controlling all the important industries and a minor market for no industrial goods. With the army running the show internal divisions tend to disappear very swiftly, as do those who object to the army running the show (usually at night, into a shallow grave) Basically the CSA died the first proto-fascist state, I assume that had it lived it would have become the first full one, and gone off to carve a slave-empire on in its sphere of influence the way Hitler did in Eastern Europe. But like you said this is counter factual naval gazing and not really relevant
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Jun 23, 2015 20:35
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It is good that you'll now have to go to a weird website that looks like it's from 1999 to obtain your Racist Traitor flag
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Jun 23, 2015 20:38
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my bony fealty posted:Countdown until a prominent voice on the right (either in media or a politician) comes out and complains that the whites are being persecuted by ~mainstream America~ shunning their hate-flag and oh it's so hard for a white Christian man in America today just look at those liberals at WalMart/Amazon/wherever stifling our free speech! Already happened, see the issue of the National Review dropped last evening
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Jun 23, 2015 20:39
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Trabisnikof posted:What exactly would that gain? It would make her less of a complete loving hypocrite?
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Jun 23, 2015 20:39
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:And here comes the final boom Will be. Everything's still up. Probably waiting for sales to die down first...
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Jun 23, 2015 20:39
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this_is_hard posted:It would make her less of a complete loving hypocrite? No one actually cares about hypocrisy.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:41
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Monkey Fracas posted:It is good that you'll now have to go to a weird website that looks like it's from 1999 to obtain your Racist Traitor flag Where it deserves to be imo
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Jun 23, 2015 20:41
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this_is_hard posted:It would make her less of a complete loving hypocrite? I donno, "reforming horrible institutions from within" seems pretty ideologically consistent for a former senator  (and any liberal politician).But besides not angering ideologically pure leftists, what actual benefit would be seen to the rest of us if she'd excluded her voice from the board?
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Jun 23, 2015 20:43
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I actually just checked because of morbid curiousity, but there are still quite a few swastika'd items you can buy on Amazon.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:43
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:And here comes the final boom I enjoy the blissful thoughts of imagining that these people are buying flags to burn them in that grill.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:43
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this_is_hard posted:It would make her less of a complete loving hypocrite? Yeah, refusing to serve on the board of the single largest company in the state you live in and your husband governs is a good way to effect change.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:44
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this_is_hard posted:It would make her less of a complete loving hypocrite? Yeah honestly bud I'm a Bernie guy myself but no one gets anywhere by out and out refusing to play the game. If you believe so hard in politics without process, go torch an office building.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:44
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Doctor Butts posted:I enjoy the blissful thoughts of imagining that these people are buying flags to burn them in that grill.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:44
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JT Jag posted:She could have been the most vocal supporter of rapprochement with unions on the planet, but if she's getting shut out by the rest of the board what can she do? And she could have been the one who called in the thugs and told them to kick in workers teeth.  It's fun to make up stuff!
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Jun 23, 2015 20:45
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I'd prefer politicians that take a tiny chance of reform over a 0 chance of reform and keeping their ideological purity any day. But then again, I'm not an accelerationist.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:45
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Trabisnikof posted:What exactly would that gain? Perhaps by not associating with people who's actions directly contradict her stated beliefs and policy goals, she wouldn't be facing so much skepticism about her motives and the Clinton Foundation?
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Jun 23, 2015 20:47
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Trabisnikof posted:I'd prefer politicians that take a tiny chance of reform over a 0 chance of reform and keeping their ideological purity any day.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:48
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