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I'm surprised Akira Otoishi is still able to walk around town in the rohan spinoffs without an intense fear of Okuyasu just erasing his face
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Jun 24, 2015 01:22
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Okuyasu made peace with the fact that his brother was a dirtbag who kinda had it coming. His anger satiated, he returns to his natural state of being a lovable buffoon.
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Jun 24, 2015 01:32
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I want to hug okuyasu forever.
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Jun 24, 2015 02:06
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I've started to read part 4 since the fate of the anime being able to do it is up in the air. It's very good! I won't read this thread since there's spoilers abound for part 4 and beyond, but I can definitely see myself continuing to read the whole series now.
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Jun 24, 2015 02:13
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Million Ghosts posted:He did twice, first some time back in the day for Killer Queen, and again for Bites The Dust. Wait, what? I thought Kira was a natural stand user. Or maybe I made this up in my own head because Ive only read Duwang. I always thought they said his intense desire to cover up his crimes is what caused his stand to awaken: Something that can turn anything into bombs and explode away pesky evidence. Didnt he get Killer Queen after killing the ghost girl who was his only "normal" kill.
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Jun 24, 2015 02:15
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Kira's father owned one of the arrows, so the implication seems to be he shot his son. Given how protective he is of his twisted kid, I wouldn't be surprised to learn he caught Kira returning home from his first murder, covered in blood, and decided to give him a stand to help him cover his tracks in the future.
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Jun 24, 2015 02:27
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Well, it's good to be supportive of your kid's hobbies.
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Jun 24, 2015 02:28
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Jun 24, 2015 02:34
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Yoshihiro Kira is the best father in all of Jojo. And that's the problem.
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Jun 24, 2015 02:38
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Agreed
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Jun 24, 2015 02:46
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Beautiful and inspirational words.
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Jun 24, 2015 03:05
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Xibanya posted:Hi thread, remember the chart from this lecture by Araki that Bad Seafood shared? I'm loving this post and would also love to see more from you Xibanya.
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Jun 24, 2015 03:11
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Okay, I'm a little confused about Hamon during the Dio fight now. Does Joseph's use of Hamon when he has Dio wrapped in Hermit Purple not actually reach Dio before Dio goes "haha your stand is lovely *flexes, busts out*"? That's the only reason I can think of because otherwise there'd be no reason for Dio to be afraid of punching Joseph's hamon-hermit-purple body armor.
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Jun 24, 2015 06:56
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Does anyone have a source for the whole Jotaro is quiet because he's thinking of one-liners or is that just Akrai Says(TM)?
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Jun 24, 2015 06:57
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I don't think it's even an Akarin-says thing, it's just a fan joke.
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Jun 24, 2015 07:02
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Aurora posted:Okay, I'm a little confused about Hamon during the Dio fight now. Does Joseph's use of Hamon when he has Dio wrapped in Hermit Purple not actually reach Dio before Dio goes "haha your stand is lovely *flexes, busts out*"? That's the only reason I can think of because otherwise there'd be no reason for Dio to be afraid of punching Joseph's hamon-hermit-purple body armor. I guess he hadn't began to channel the Hamon.
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Jun 24, 2015 07:04
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i'm pretty sure it's just a joke that was born out of his lame receipt gag
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Jun 24, 2015 07:06
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Zeruel posted:I guess he hadn't began to channel the Hamon. Yeah, everyone was always saying "oh hamon is useless versus Dio" though, I thought.
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Jun 24, 2015 07:07
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Brannock posted:I'm loving this post and would also love to see more from you Xibanya. You're in luck, I've got words about Japanese comics for everyone! I've been wanting to compare the art of DB with the art of Jojo for a little while now. I'll give this thread the rough cut first (minus some more Dragonball-specific paragraphs.) Why compare DB with JJBA? They are both influential shonen fighting comics from the same era, are both fantastic, and have completely different approaches to their storytelling style and art. Appreciating what makes them different helps us to appreciate the techniques that were employed in each and helps us appreciate the contributions they made to the comics that came after them. In the DBZ thread I discussed some of the key features of Dragonball that make its art so appealing, particularly its clarity. (You can read about it here: https://manuelamalasanya.wordpress.com/effort-series/) I demonstrated Toriyama's use of clarity of form to visually communicate the story of Dragonball by blocking in the characters' silhouettes like this:  Arguably the most valuable tools in Toriyama's arsenal are clarity of forms and clarity of spatial relationships. The most valuable tools to Araki...are not. Have a look at the following. I took six pages from Dragonball chapter 159 (Goku vs. King Piccolo) and six pages from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure chapter 262 (Jotaro vs. Dio) and applied the exact same lovely photoshop filters to them. Here's the result: Dragonball    Jojo    What that's meant to prove is that overall, Dragonball has much stronger clarity of form (it's easier to tell what the drawings are supposed to represent.) That does not mean, however, that Dragonball's art is better or that Jojo's art is hard to read. The reason why Jojo is much less clear than Dragonball is because it has features that make it much more intense. Per Scott McCloud's "Making Comics," intensity comes at the expense of clarity. If the artist pulls it off, it can be well worth the trade-off. Grades of Abstraction The nature of the stories that Toriyama and Araki wanted to tell respectively dictated the style. Before Toriyama or Araki submitted the first chapter of Dragonball or Jojo, they had committed to telling a story with a specific premise, genre, and tone. Fortunately I don't need to speculate on Araki's opinion on what kind of story he wanted to tell, because he provided this handy chart (the same one I posted two pages ago):  (you can play with the sweet interactive version here: http://xibanya.neocities.org/arakichart.html) Araki aimed to tell a suspenseful story with sweeping drama and high stakes. For that reason, the world of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (horror/fighting genre) is established as one of consequences. This gives Araki the freedom to depict intense psychodrama but means the action can't depart too far from what is literally possible. (Part of what makes things in the series bizarre is that what happens stand out next to all the realistic stuff that's already there.) This allows characters to change more realistically over time, making characters more complex and interesting and keeping the story exciting with high stakes and running tension, but the author runs the risk of changing the characters into something less interesting or even really stupid (like Marvel's Speedball --> Penance thing.) The world of JJBA is one where characters' emotions are very real and should be inferred from the subtext. A more realistic style is ideal for this type of story as it will heighten the reader's engagement with the characters' inner lives. For the first three arcs, I would actually place Jojo's Bizarre Adventure in the upper left quadrant of the graph. At first, Toriyama only intended Dragonball to be a short pastiche of Journey to the West, and from the very first chapter we have a girl shooting a boy in the face with no lasting harm done and an attack by a talking dinosaur. The world of Dragonball (gag/fighting genre) is established as one with almost no consequences. This gives Toriyama the freedom to depict a wider range of actions at the expense of emotional verisimilitude. Characters can have all manner of misfortune befall them but they stay static, both an advantage and a disadvantage. Characters can get into situations that would traumatize an ordinary person but be unaffected, making the situation humorous instead of tragic - the disadvantage is that interest can't be maintained through tension alone since the stakes are never too high; furthermore, if a character stays static too long they wear out their welcome and get kind of stale. DB world is not one with deep psychological issues nor emotional suffering. We default to assuming characters aren't emotionally affected and if that isn't the case, we're explicitly told. A more abstract style is ideal for this type of story as it will amplify the humor. Line art Instead of reinventing the wheel, I'll just post this bit from "Understanding Comics" by Scott McCloud:     I'm sure you can reach your own conclusions. Panel Focus/Expression Here are all the faces that Goku makes in chapter 159 the same size they appear in relation to each other.  And here's every face Jotaro makes in chapter 262 at the same size they appear in relation to each other.  Nearly every shot of Goku shows his entire body, while Jotaro's face takes up a significant amount of panel real estate. Because Goku is drawn in a very cartoony style, his expressions are easy to parse but limited in nuance, while Jotaro is drawn in a style that's much closer to realism, meaning he has a wider range of subtle emotions but they require more attention from the reader to be correctly detected. Clearly in Dragonball the focus is more on what the character is literally doing, while the focus in Stardust Crusaders is more on how the character is feeling. In light of this, if in a scene Goku and Jotaro are both equally angry, Goku HAS to be much more obviously angry than Jotaro does - since we understand that we're in a world where actions have real consequences, we can trust that Jotaro is really upset under his cool demeanor. We can't trust that a character in Dragonball has any deeper emotion than the one that's obviously there. On the flip side, if Araki exaggerates characters' expressions too much then he runs the risk of losing their grounding in reality and making them look emotionally unstable (sometimes he does this on purpose.) Things are a little more ho-hum in Dragonball world.  If this woman were in JJJBA, she'd be monstrously grotesque. In Dragonball she's just a humorously unattractive lady.  In JJBA this is the insane laughter of a disturbed vampire. In Dragonball world, it's just a Super Saiyan bargain sale.  What's next: The obvious differences out of the way, if you weren't all bored to tears by the  , what I want to really explore in-depth at a later date are the following topics: extreme violence vs. tight choreography, hyperreal vs. fantasy, panel layout, and transitions.
Xibanya fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jun 24, 2015 |
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Jun 24, 2015 07:22
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That was really interesting, for sure.
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Jun 24, 2015 07:51
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Cabinet posted:Does anyone have a source for the whole Jotaro is quiet because he's thinking of one-liners or is that just Akrai Says(TM)?
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Jun 24, 2015 08:06
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K82uLI56cCk
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Jun 24, 2015 08:22
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That write-up was super cool. I look forward to reading more of your effortposts, Xibanya
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Jun 24, 2015 08:52
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That was actually more interesting than your DB posts, keep doing God's (DIO's) work.
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Jun 24, 2015 11:07
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Sekkira posted:No stand is flat out better than any other in every aspect and the winner is decided by the ingenuity of the stand user.
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Jun 24, 2015 12:58
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I'm sure they'd be different in obscure ways. Also, decided to watch Heroes with a friend again. Every time Hiro stops time, I keep thinking "ZA WARUDO!". I am somewhat disappointed that there are no edits of The World as his stand.
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Jun 24, 2015 16:52
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Really into the art write-up. I always found the range and detail of expression in Araki's work to be really interesting, but I'm not very well versed in the lingo so it's hard to put it into words.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:16
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Thanks everybody, I really appreciate it. I'm still a newcomer to JJBA and I'm reading the Viz editions of the manga, which means I haven't looked much at part 4 on. If anyone knows of good examples from any part of the series of unusual panel sizes and layouts, particularly insane poses, gruesome fights, or anything else that might be a good example of Jojo's intensity, let me know.
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Jun 24, 2015 19:00
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Xibanya posted:Thanks everybody, I really appreciate it. I'm still a newcomer to JJBA and I'm reading the Viz editions of the manga, which means I haven't looked much at part 4 on. If anyone knows of good examples from any part of the series of unusual panel sizes and layouts, particularly insane poses, gruesome fights, or anything else that might be a good example of Jojo's intensity, let me know. Part 6 is pretty much that. Jolyne Owns.
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Jun 24, 2015 19:06
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Soulcleaver posted:This statement is almost always true, but isn't Khnum a straight up downgrade from Yellow Temperance? Then again, Khnum can change the user's scent and I don't know if Yellow Temperance could. Both of their users were morons, too, and that's the most important bit. It also allows a person to change their size. It was pointed out by Rubber Soul that Jotaro did not notice that his Kakyoin disguise was getting larger and larger from the stuff Yellow Temperance was eating.
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Jun 24, 2015 19:32
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Part 7 always sticks out to me as having lots of visually striking stuff as it goes on, especially with regards to lines and foreground/background objects (it also gets pretty sameface-y but it's a beautiful sameface so who cares  ). Although personally I have a soft spot for mid-to-end Part 4's line art, it's just really appealing to look at.I remember Part 5 and 6 as being pretty gory and gruesome (Green Day, Metallica, and C-Moon especially), but I've always thought it was interesting how the gore is really up close and detailed for some stuff like nails and eyes, but more abstract when it comes to things like limbs being blown off.
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Jun 24, 2015 19:36
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Xibanya posted:Thanks everybody, I really appreciate it. I'm still a newcomer to JJBA and I'm reading the Viz editions of the manga, which means I haven't looked much at part 4 on. If anyone knows of good examples from any part of the series of unusual panel sizes and layouts, particularly insane poses, gruesome fights, or anything else that might be a good example of Jojo's intensity, let me know. If you could do me a huge favor and timg those first huge pictures I would really appreciate it. I want to read your post but have to scroll back and forth is a bummer. Also there is a scene early on in part 4 where Josuke punches straight through a random civilian to get to the person behind her. He has a really strong healing power so they do stuff like that frequently through the series. I remember part 6 just being brutal as gently caress, especially the big fight in the solitary ward or whatever that was. Senor Candle fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jun 24, 2015 |
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Jun 24, 2015 19:47
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Continuing Part 5, it's really good, but I can't help but still be disappointed that when they went to Pompei Koichi wasn't there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKtgWx6e0hs
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Jun 24, 2015 19:52
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Xibanya posted:Thanks everybody, I really appreciate it. I'm still a newcomer to JJBA and I'm reading the Viz editions of the manga, which means I haven't looked much at part 4 on. If anyone knows of good examples from any part of the series of unusual panel sizes and layouts, particularly insane poses, gruesome fights, or anything else that might be a good example of Jojo's intensity, let me know. Towards the end of part 5 there's a fight against a stand called Green Day that causes mold to grow on people and quickly decompose them if they aren't continually gaining altitude. There's a lot of people falling over and having their limbs start to decompose and random civilians running away as they get disintegrated. It goes on for about 8 chapters and ends with 7 full page panels of GioGio's stand muda muda mudaing the villain.
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Jun 24, 2015 19:56
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CJ posted:Towards the end of part 5 there's a fight against a stand called Green Day that causes mold to grow on people and quickly decompose them if they aren't continually gaining altitude. There's a lot of people falling over and having their limbs start to decompose and random civilians running away as they get disintegrated. It goes on for about 8 chapters and ends with 7 full page panels of GioGio's stand muda muda mudaing the villain. That's not an exaggeration. It has 7 straight pages of Giorno beating the snot out of a guy
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Jun 24, 2015 20:00
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giorno really is his father's son
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Jun 24, 2015 20:01
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The Cioccolatta fight always felt like the real climax of part 5 to me. Part of it is that everything surrounding the Diavolo fight is so confusing and weird, but also that beatdown is just so great. GioGio even slips in a WRYYYYY at the end!
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Jun 24, 2015 20:02
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Senor Candle posted:If you could do me a huge favor and timg those first huge pictures I would really appreciate it. I want to read your post but have to scroll back and forth is a bummer. Shoot, sorry about that! It's fixed now. quote:Also there is a scene early on in part 4 quote:Towards the end of part 5 Holy poo poo those sound  as gently caress. 
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Jun 24, 2015 20:06
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there are definitely times when the term 'body horror' applies in later parts
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Jun 24, 2015 20:15
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Part 6 is just hardcore all around. Jolyne really knows how to take a hit.
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Jun 24, 2015 20:20
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