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I dont know posted:Can you give a ballpark figure? Given that building an army can already cost hundreds, I can only guess at what a far more expensive army might potentially cost. Basically, I want to know exactly how hard to laugh. Well, mainly it was the fact that the daemon army list picked up cavalry and chariots. Which consisted of stuff like flying chariots pulled by Screamers and monstrous cavalry such as Bloodcrushers - Bloodletters riding Juggernauts. As far as I know, the only way to get a Juggernaut at that time was either through the ordering of individual parts, or by buying a 40k HQ figure that happened to come on one. So while you could field an infantry army with little-to-no custom modelling required, albeit still extremely expensive due to being purely pewter, if you wanted any cavalry or chariots you'd need to acquire parts from various other disparate kits and then have the modeling skills needed to actually combine parts not designed to go together. I'll leave the monetary repercussions of having to purchase kits to assemble a single model to you. Some of this has changed in the years since, though I've long stopped paying much attention to tabletop, with daemonic units getting released as boxed kits and not requiring one to purchase all the individual blisters with pewter models(incidentally, this includes Bloodcrushers), but at the time that brand-new army was released they were nonexistent, and doesn't look like they became so until years later.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:44
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sirtommygunn posted:Yeah it's cool to mess around with poo poo but to release actual units for a game and then tell your players they have to custom build it themselves from multiple products is more than a little hosed up. GW has been run for its entire existence by nerds with deep connections to what they call ~the hobby~; that is, modeling and painting little plastic/pewter men. The game rules and the lore have always been ancillary to ~the hobby~ to GW's upper management and only have utility insofar as they can advance the cause of ~the hobby~.
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Jun 23, 2015 04:36
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Neruz posted:To be fair it's actually really not hard to paint most miniatures half-decently; ex spraypaint black + drybrush with a metallic color gets you perfectly workable spess muhreens or anyone else without much flesh. Tyranid armies are probably the hardest to paint well because they're all flesh and bone which is really hard to paint good, but looks amazing if you can do it. Tyranid are actually one of the easiest to paint once everyone discovered the magic of dunking them in a dark wash ~5 years ago. Does this game actually have the potential to be an amazing series? From what I read in the op, they seem dedicated to making it a lot more varied and deep rather than having a ton of cloned armies like they said. Too good to be true? They have so much room to expand with DLC as well.
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Jun 23, 2015 05:06
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Kanos posted:GW has been run for its entire existence by nerds with deep connections to what they call ~the hobby~; that is, modeling and painting little plastic/pewter men. The game rules and the lore have always been ancillary to ~the hobby~ to GW's upper management and only have utility insofar as they can advance the cause of ~the hobby~. So why not use the lore to fund itself so ~the hobby~ stuff only has to cover the price of making minis, lower the price and get a lot more people into ~the hobby~?
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Jun 23, 2015 05:38
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goodness posted:
The preview made it sound like they're changing things up a bit from previous Total War games, and I guess they'd have to with wizards and giants and dragons and flying units and stuff. Can't wait to unleash a volley of cannon fire into the ranks of skeltons
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Jun 23, 2015 06:43
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Just imagine what amazing games CA will make after Total War: Warhammer is done. Like Empire III and Medieval III man. Just imagine how cool it will be after two years of dragons, griphons, zombies vampires orcs and giant demons.
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Jun 23, 2015 07:40
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Mans posted:Just imagine what amazing games CA will make after Total War: Warhammer is done. Yeah they better stick with war hammer fantasy and then go to 40k. Milk this for 7 years until miniature games are played on holographic tables. I believe they can do it.
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Jun 23, 2015 07:46
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The day we build a system that can generate unique holograms on the fly (probably require true AI in some form) is the day that Games Workshop finally goes out of business.
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Jun 23, 2015 07:50
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Mans posted:Just imagine what amazing games CA will make after Total War: Warhammer is done. The tears and lamentation among CA's art crew on that day will be a thing of legend.
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Jun 23, 2015 07:52
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Neruz posted:The day we build a system that can generate unique holograms on the fly (probably require true AI in some form) is the day that Games Workshop finally goes out of business. They should be working on it themselves but they are dumb. Imagine going to a shop or having friends over, you plug in your little chip to the table and it has the army lists you have worked on. Maybe you have to pay once for each army or something, whatever. Select that and they spawn on the field, give them commands and it actually happens. Hire me please.
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Jun 23, 2015 07:53
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I hope the forts are more elaborate this time as well. Wanna siege some huge vampire castle
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Jun 23, 2015 08:40
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Zzulu posted:I hope the forts are more elaborate this time as well. Wanna siege some huge vampire castle It needs a clocktower, medusa heads, and Death.
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Jun 23, 2015 08:42
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Yes! Each province taken over will have unique forts! Sprawling Orc encampments with wide open areas for lotz o'boyz to mix er up. Elegant and functional empire fortresses with griffon flags and buttresses everywhere. Flat dwarven stone with more murder holes, choke points and fall back positions than you can shake a dead Orc at. And finally dread and oppressive citadels of death, which seep miasma and give off dread. Only the bravest of fools would dare attack the undead in its home! I mean, as long as it's not castle level 2 all over again.
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Jun 23, 2015 08:54
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Vampire counts could place spooky graveyards/grimdark mass graves on defence instead of barricades, spawns zombie units when targeted by spellcasters. There's just so much potential here for interesting asymmetrical gameplay which I'm a huge sucker for.
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Jun 23, 2015 08:55
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Neruz posted:The day we build a system that can generate unique holograms on the fly (probably require true AI in some form) is the day that Games Workshop finally goes out of business. I've had friends print out pictures of units, cut off the excess paper and play small games of 40k. Cheapest way to play the game really.
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Jun 23, 2015 09:49
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goodness posted:They should be working on it themselves but they are dumb. Imagine going to a shop or having friends over, you plug in your little chip to the table and it has the army lists you have worked on. Maybe you have to pay once for each army or something, whatever. Select that and they spawn on the field, give them commands and it actually happens. Hire me please. How do you sell 10p worth of paint for £5 in this plan? I'm sure the Perry brothers would be dead keen to learn software engineering and spearhead the R&D process. GW are not a software company and never will be. They don't have any of the resources or financial clout to drive any development that would further cannibalise their existing sales.
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Jun 23, 2015 10:25
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Frankly posted:There's just so much potential here for wildly broken and buggy asymmetrical gameplay which I'm a huge sucker for. I mean come on now, this is CA we're talking about here
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Jun 23, 2015 10:36
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victrix posted:I mean come on now, this is CA we're talking about here I WANT TO BELIEVE
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Jun 23, 2015 10:48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVgIWhf8-SA AngryJoe Interviews Creative Assembly Battle Designer Simon Mann. Sounds like it looked really good. He slammed the AI in Rome II pretty hard, and makes sure to get the CA guy to admit the demo was scripted. CA guy says there'll be an army painter will be coming out in a DLC or expansion.
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Jun 23, 2015 10:55
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In the year of our lord 2000 and 15 there is still some rear end in a top hat doing the "grrr i'm a gamer i'm so angry" gimmick? edit: it's actually a decent interview so far, I heard the dev let slip "Estalian Empire" Rabhadh fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Jun 23, 2015 |
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Jun 23, 2015 11:13
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Rabhadh posted:In the year of our lord 2000 and 15 there is still some rear end in a top hat doing the "grrr i'm a gamer i'm so angry" gimmick? lol you never heard of angry joe before now? he annoys the poo poo out of me which is unfortunate because he makes good points in his reviews
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Jun 23, 2015 11:45
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He takes himself seriously enough to not be a complete softball in interviews, so there's that at least.
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Jun 23, 2015 11:53
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Martello posted:lol you never heard of angry joe before now? He's part of the nerd nest of channel awesome that's become completely unwatchable since they sold out. Not that I found Joe's stuff very watchable in the first place.  He seems like a nice guy when he's not putting on his dumb mad about vida games routine though.
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Jun 23, 2015 13:36
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Rabhadh posted:In the year of our lord 2000 and 15 there is still some rear end in a top hat doing the "grrr i'm a gamer i'm so angry" gimmick? 
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Jun 23, 2015 15:14
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I'm throwing my lot in with the believers. Don't crush my dreams like Wil Wright did.
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Jun 23, 2015 15:25
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Ironically, if the Estalians make it in, you can actually do pike and shot since they use pikes as the standard armament for their infantrymen. Only Nuln (gunpowder and tech capital) uses pikes regularly in the Empire of Sigmar.
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Jun 23, 2015 15:30
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xthetenth posted:So why not use the lore to fund itself so ~the hobby~ stuff only has to cover the price of making minis, lower the price and get a lot more people into ~the hobby~? The point of ~the hobby~ is that it is supposed to be an end unto itself. They think the reason people buy these things is that they are 'little magical wonders', and you just have to have them. And then paint them. And then get more. And somewhere in there there is a game or something, but really, look at how pretty my Space Marines are?
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Jun 23, 2015 16:29
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Crossposted from the Warhammer TG thread:  
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Jun 24, 2015 09:10
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xthetenth posted:So why not use the lore to fund itself so ~the hobby~ stuff only has to cover the price of making minis, lower the price and get a lot more people into ~the hobby~? Because if you expand the lore stuff on the side too much it might be possible for people to enjoy the lore and setting without ~the hobby~, which is counterproductive in their eyes since they don't see themselves as the owners of the Warhammer Universe That Has A Tabletop Game And Miniatures Attached, they see themselves as the owners of the Warhammer Tabletop Miniatures Line That Has A Game And Some Lore Attached. It's stupid but that's how they've always approached things and they don't seem to want to change it, which is why they've been using the same marketing strategies and advertisement for like the last 20 years and slowly choking themselves to death by gouging prices increasingly higher on the people who still play their games instead of making an effort to expand in other directions. They've never been terribly good at leveraging their IP. They're insanely protective, suspicious, and rabidly litigious about how it is used, which is why there's so few good Warhammer games. GW tends to demand an unprecedented amount of creative control and input over any usage of their IP, which means bigger name studios don't want to deal with their poo poo, which means they usually end up palming off what few games they do make onto poo poo no name developers. Only rarely does GW end up lucking into a company that both makes good games and is willing to deal with their poo poo, like Relic with the DoW games. Even then GW's strangehold on Relic during DoW and DoW2's production was incredible. There were posts from a goon that worked at Relic in the DoW2 threads about how they had to put every single voiced line in the game past GW's scrutiny for lore approval.
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Jun 24, 2015 09:29
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I'm not sure whether the fact that METUHL BAWKSESSSS made it past GW's scrutiny is a good thing or a bad thing.
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Jun 24, 2015 09:58
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Forget that, I want to know how they managed to get "Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword!" into DoW2.
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Jun 24, 2015 10:58
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papasyhotcakes posted:Crossposted from the Warhammer TG thread: Christ. Thanks for reminding me why I stopped playing tabletop GW. 
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Jun 24, 2015 11:21
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Kanos posted:They've never been terribly good at leveraging their IP. They're insanely protective, suspicious, and rabidly litigious about how it is used, which is why there's so few good Warhammer games. GW tends to demand an unprecedented amount of creative control and input over any usage of their IP, which means bigger name studios don't want to deal with their poo poo, which means they usually end up palming off what few games they do make onto poo poo no name developers. Only rarely does GW end up lucking into a company that both makes good games and is willing to deal with their poo poo, like Relic with the DoW games. Even then GW's strangehold on Relic during DoW and DoW2's production was incredible. There were posts from a goon that worked at Relic in the DoW2 threads about how they had to put every single voiced line in the game past GW's scrutiny for lore approval. All this is a great pity, after all, imagine what Total War:Warhammer could be like if it was going to have mod support. You could have things like a Warcraft mod, though weather such would be a good thing is up to interpretation. Sadly, paranoid... uh, what would be the right word for the GW folks? Grognards? miniature specialists? Eh whatever, point is GW's paranoia and such prevents more awesome games like Dark Omen and such from being made. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Jun 24, 2015 12:01
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Tomn posted:Forget that, I want to know how they managed to get "Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword!" into DoW2. The previously mentioned goon was apparently involved in the process for getting that approved. The process involved a lot of alcohol and telling the rep Come onnnn it'll rule
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Jun 24, 2015 17:02
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papasyhotcakes posted:Crossposted from the Warhammer TG thread: dear gw, please fire all your writers.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:03
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After taking a little time to actually read the fluff in those images, dear God yes fire them all.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:16
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It reads like a magazine version of home shopping network ads for nerds
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Jun 24, 2015 18:19
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id claim it was written by a marketing team but lol gw having a marketing team
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Jun 24, 2015 18:27
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It's really weird to me that they're simultaneously so dismissive & protective of the value of their IP. Like, they don't want to be more than a hobby company that makes minis with an ancillary IP because they believe the minis are far more important than any of that, yet they're insanely controlling to a degree that almost nobody else is with the licensed games and stuff that come out. I'm not sure how to articulate it but something about that seems off to me.
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Jun 24, 2015 19:12
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Hopefully with the advent of 3D printing, they will be forced to market the IP more and we will see some wonderful things like a holotable or them going bankrupt.
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Jun 24, 2015 19:25
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