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GlyphGryph posted:So, let's ignore your pet hobby horse and your need to make every situation about it and it alone, and talk about what you would want us to do, as the next (but not final) step, that is better than denormalizing symbols of racial hatred and oppression? Make it harder to get a handgun? 
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Jun 24, 2015 17:24
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Again, go find the national news story that's about the endemic and entrenched societal racism that led to this shooting. I'm sad because the national conversation about this is apparently over, and it didn't even take a week.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:24
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McDowell posted:Slavery was becoming obsolete because of technology, so inevitably it becomes a question of how human beings are compensated for their labor. It is hard to imagine slavery surviving the shift from 1860 (with 50+% of people working in agriculture) to today.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:25
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Drone posted:Make it harder to get a handgun? Sorry, sorry, I mean in terms of fighting the whole racism/white supremacy thing. Left out a couple words on the rewrite.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:26
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zoux posted:People are saying that it's fine if the only outcome from the national discussion on race engendered by the AME shooting is that you can't buy a Stars n Bars belt buckle at Wal Mart. They are also saying this is real and meaningful change. "We took the flag down because it's a symbol of racism and white supremacy and therefore has no place in society outside of tombstones and museums" - PROGRESS "We took the flag down because Dylann Roof enjoyed waving it around and we want nothing to do with him, plus everyone else was taking it down at the time and we didn't want to stick out like a sore thumb" - NOT PROGRESS
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Jun 24, 2015 17:26
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Rhesus Pieces posted:"We took the flag down because it's a symbol of racism and white supremacy and therefore has no place in society outside of tombstones and museums" - PROGRESS If it relegates the Confederate flag to the dustbin of history, then I don't give a poo poo why they took it down/stopped selling it.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:27
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Drone posted:Make it harder to get a handgun? Meaningful gun control? That's all? It's so simple! Why didn't I think of that? But seriously, that'd be nice and all, but it isn't remotely possible. Even assuming broad popular support for that (which doesn't exist) the Senate could never pass anything with any real teeth.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:27
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zoux posted:Again, go find the national news story that's about the endemic and entrenched societal racism that led to this shooting. I'm sad because the national conversation about this is apparently over, and it didn't even take a week. You mean the national conversation about racism is over because people are finally accepting that the confederate flag stands for racism?
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Jun 24, 2015 17:28
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AhhYes posted:Meaningful gun control? That's all? It's so simple! Why didn't I think of that? One week ago everyone would've said the same thing about the flag backlash. botany posted:You mean the national conversation about racism is over because people are finally accepting that the confederate flag stands for racism? Yeah and the argument and discussion is "Is the flag racist" instead of "is our damaging and polarizing political rhetoric radicalizing white power youth" or any number of actual salient issues.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:28
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Rhesus Pieces posted:"We took the flag down because it's a symbol of racism and white supremacy and therefore has no place in society outside of tombstones and museums" - PROGRESS That Haley had all but encouraged it's continued existence on private property pretty much tells you which of these scenarios are most likely
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Jun 24, 2015 17:29
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Fried Chicken posted:What Zoux's argument really comes down to is that that Zoux knows better than the black people who are pushing this about what will help black people, and that Zoux knows better than the activists who have been building these organizations about what these organizations can presently accomplish. zoux posted:Haha yeah that's my argument. That's what I'm arguing. Good poo poo Buddy. zoux posted:I do support it, I'm just dismayed that the national conversation has shifted so readily onto a symbolic tangential issue. This position has made some posters in this thread Extremely Mad. So again, Fried Chicken posted:What Zoux's argument really comes down to is that that Zoux knows better than the black people who are pushing this about what will help black people, and that Zoux knows better than the activists who have been building these organizations about what these organizations can presently accomplish.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:30
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Fried Chicken posted:So again, Hm actually it sounds to me like YOU are the white paternalist, tbqf.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:31
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On the contrary, I'd say this is a huge step forward and has some pretty big ramifications going forward. Open support for the country's biggest symbol of white supremacy just got eroded overnight. It's not going to magically make racism go away, but it's a much needed course correction that exposes those dogwhistles for what they truly are. Part of the reason why racism is so prevalent is because people grow up in environments where openly racist symbols are seen as normal. Anything that lessens that is important progress.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:32
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I don't actually care whether or not the absolute loving morons that populate America understands the dynamics of whatever at a collegiate level as long as they stop doing things that encourage and normalize racial oppression and help to prime youths like Roof towards radicalization. You're calling for a deep and frank National Discussion towards an audience that has the political and intellectual depth of a puddle.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:34
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Look at that fat guy out for a run! He's probably just doing it to *look* better, not because he's learned true mind body discipline. And he'll probably just go eat a million bowls of ice cream and get fatter now anyway, I'm assuming. This running nonsense is just a meaningless distraction and I'm against it!
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Jun 24, 2015 17:35
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berzerker posted:Look at that fat guy out for a run! He's probably just doing it to *look* better, not because he's learned true mind body discipline. And he'll probably just go eat a million bowls of ice cream and get fatter now anyway, I'm assuming. This running nonsense is just a meaningless distraction and I'm against it! You're 'bout these false equivalencies today huh. In your analogy, going for a run would be what I want them to do, stapling up thinspiration photos on their bedroom walls is what you think is plenty of progress towards a goal.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:36
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berzerker posted:Look at that fat guy out for a run! He's probably just doing it to *look* better, not because he's learned true mind body discipline. And he'll probably just go eat a million bowls of ice cream and get fatter now anyway, I'm assuming. This running nonsense is just a meaningless distraction and I'm against it! I don't know why he's bothering either, to be honest. I mean, even if he truly believed it would help, he's still going to be fat after he's done running for the day, so can you call it a meaningful effort? And in like half an hour he's probably just going to stop, you know? So much for that! zoux posted:You're 'bout these false equivalencies today huh. In your analogy, going for a run would be what I want them to do, stapling up thinspiration photos on their bedroom walls is what you think is plenty of progress towards a goal.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:36
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Drone posted:Make it harder to get a handgun? Didn't Roof pass a background check? His only "crimes" to date was drug possession IIRC.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:39
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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DeusExMachinima posted:Didn't this guy pass a background check? I believe that he was gifted the gun by his father because he was ineligible due to past felony convictions. Hey, maybe that's something the media could look into! How straw purchases allow felons to circumvent gun control laws!
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Jun 24, 2015 17:40
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zoux posted:I believe that he was gifted the gun by his father because he was ineligible due to past felony convictions. Hey, maybe that's something the media could look into! How straw purchases allow felons to circumvent gun control laws! Okay but my point is his crime was non-violent and victimless. And how could you realistically enforce--before the shooting--background checks between family members anyway?
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Jun 24, 2015 17:42
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zoux posted:Hey, maybe that's something the media could look into! How straw purchases allow felons to circumvent gun control laws! Scour the country clean of symbols and statues and reverence of an institution of brutal slavery, racial oppression, and hatred? No, no, why don't we instead focus on my specific pet issue.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:43
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zoux posted:I believe that he was gifted the gun by his father because he was ineligible due to past felony convictions. Hey, maybe that's something the media could look into! How straw purchases allow felons to circumvent gun control laws! Actually I think the story yesterday was he bought the gun near (25 min drive in SC is near) his home with his parents' birthday money.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:43
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zoux posted:I believe that he was gifted the gun by his father because he was ineligible due to past felony convictions. I'm still unsure at this point because I heard it was either that or his convictions didn't go through to the national database.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:43
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Brannock posted:Scour the country clean of symbols and statues and reverence of an institution of brutal slavery, racial oppression, and hatred? Why was slavery bad? The answer should be more complicated than 'it was racist'
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Jun 24, 2015 17:44
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That's not my pet issue. That's just one of many issues that I wish we were talking about in the media. Getting rid of the confederate flag is literally the least we could do.computer parts posted:I'm still unsure at this point because I heard it was either that or his convictions didn't go through to the national database. It's too bad that we don't have some sort of system to investigate and report on things to people. Oh well, here's Don Lemon on if the Confederate Flag is worse than Obama saying the n-word.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:44
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zoux posted:I believe that he was gifted the gun by his father because he was ineligible due to past felony convictions. Hey, maybe that's something the media could look into! How straw purchases allow felons to circumvent gun control laws! What honestly makes you believe white america's gonna bother with gun control laws in the aftermath of a guy killing 9 black people when they couldn't manage that after 20 white children were slain?
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Jun 24, 2015 17:45
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Impermanent posted:What honestly makes you believe white america's gonna bother with gun control laws in the aftermath of a guy killing 9 black people when they couldn't manage that after 20 white children were slain? You're right, maybe we should just never bother with anything ever again.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:46
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The whole point of a straw purchase is that it's all but impossible to stop beforehand anyway soooo  Good to see some leftists applauding someone they disagree with losing rights solely based on drug indictments, not convictions, though.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:47
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zoux posted:That's not my pet issue. That's just one of many issues that I wish we were talking about in the media. Getting rid of the confederate flag is literally the least we could do.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:48
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DeusExMachinima posted:The whole point of a straw purchase is that it's all but impossible to stop beforehand anyway soooo I don't agree that gun ownership is a right.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:49
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zoux posted:You're right, maybe we should just never bother with anything ever again. We are bothering with something right now, you're just upset because we are bothering with something that you don't think is a big deal, even though we've done it your way after most of the previous shootings. zoux posted:I don't agree that gun ownership is a right. In America? Would you like to make any additional statements about how your opinions are not in fact based on reality but rather on wishful thinking? I think it really helps your arguments.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:49
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All of this aside, zoux complaining that there's not actually a national discussion on race and racism in America is a straight up falsehood. Just now I easily pulled up a dozen journalism pieces and articles discussing the Charleston shooting giving context and depth to it while specifically calling out multiple problems with American society that contribute to the undercurrent of racism. If you're expecting Fox News and CNN to give collegiate level presentations then you are a drooling moron and will literally never ever be satisfied. You've forgotten just how straight up unintelligent the majority of our voters are, let alone our non-voters. The Debate On Race is happening right now and it's there if you go look for it.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:52
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zoux posted:I don't agree that gun ownership is a right. It's far more important than a right, it's something white people feel entitled to.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:53
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Fried Chicken posted:So again, zoux posted:Hm actually it sounds to me like YOU are the white paternalist, tbqf. No less a person than Ta-Nehisi Coates demanded the Confederate flag to be taken down a day after the Charleston shooting.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:54
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zoux posted:You're right, maybe we should just never bother with anything ever again. That's your pet cause, not mine. I'm just happy the confederate flags are going down. Then I'm going to paint a big mural that says "RACISM IS DEAD FOREVER" and donate my life savings to Wal-Mart, amazon, ebay and NASCAR. Because even that would be a more realistic response than expecting a national news story about the endemic and entrenched societal racism that led to this shooting. The whole point of white supremacy is that it confers invisible benefits to the privileged class. White america is not going to step down and start an earnest discussion about race because you want it to.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:55
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zoux posted:I believe that he was gifted the gun by his father because he was ineligible due to past felony convictions. Hey, maybe that's something the media could look into! How straw purchases allow felons to circumvent gun control laws! He bought it with birthday money, the press already did look into it.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:55
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zoux posted:I don't agree that gun ownership is a right. Do you agree it's probably bad policy to restrict someone from, like, anything solely because they were accused of a crime? It's cliche but liberty does involve accepting some otherwise avoidable risks, dawg.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:55
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DeusExMachinima posted:Do you agree it's probably bad policy to restrict someone from, like, anything solely because they were accused of a crime? It's cliche but liberty does involve accepting some otherwise avoidable risks, dawg. I think in this case it would've been good if Dylann Roof didn't have a gun.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:56
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GUN CONTROL?!?!?!?!?!?!!!quote:In the wake of the Charleston shooting, Sens. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) are considering ways to renew their failed push to expand meaningful background checks on gun purchases. But but but America isn't discussing or deliberating any meaningful action! The national conversation is already over!
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Jun 24, 2015 17:57
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Senator Pinckney's last trip to the statehouse   A good amount of people there but not a ton, there's open viewing from 1-5pm I'll probably head back and get some more pics of the crowd.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:57
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