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Bobby Jindal has something he wants to tell everyone: http://www.bobbyjindal.com/announcement/
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Jun 24, 2015 17:58
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Grapplejack posted:We know what she is and how she's going to govern, But that's the point, you don't know these things. You have come up with a narrative based on assumptions that are demonstrably untrue. The conclusions you have reached based on your counterfactuals is simply wrong. There is plenty of room for debate about what Hillary will attempt to accomplish and what she has a chance of succeeding at. But we can't have any discussions about real Hillary because of all the shoddily constructed straw Hillaries being thrown around.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:58
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edit irrelevant
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Jun 24, 2015 17:58
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DeusExMachinima posted:Do you agree it's probably bad policy to restrict someone from, like, anything solely because they were accused of a crime? It's cliche but liberty does involve accepting some otherwise avoidable risks, dawg. Do you think it's a giant violation of liberty to maybe restrict someone from purchasing a firearm during the time period between accusation of a felony and exoneration?
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Jun 24, 2015 17:58
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Brannock posted:GUN CONTROL?!?!?!?!?!?!!! That doesn't count, obviously. Because there's also a conversation about racism, the symbols of racism, and the veneration of racist symbols happening, and that conversation is detracting from Full Disarmament Now. 
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Jun 24, 2015 17:59
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berzerker posted:This isn't really the scholarly consensus to my understanding, though it's not my sub-specialty. Slavery might not have made it to today, but it was insanely profitable and was on no path towards becoming less so for at least decades more. Yep, the years leading up to the war were some of the most profitable years, maybe it might have become obsolete and abandoned on its own but there's no real evidence to support that. It could have also evolved or replaced for other reasons. zoux posted:I don't agree that gun ownership is a right. Find a reasonable path to repealing the 2nd and your opinion might actually be worth something.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:59
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Alabama has just removed the flag Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley (R) posted:"This is the right thing to do. We are facing some major issues in this state regarding the budget and other matters that we need to deal with. This had the potential to become a major distraction as we go forward. I have taxes to raise, we have work to do. And it was my decision that the flag needed to come down." 
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Jun 24, 2015 17:59
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Pohl posted:Bobby Jindal has something he wants to tell everyone: http://www.bobbyjindal.com/announcement/ Does Bobby Jindal really think that I or anyone else give a poo poo about what his kids think about his surely doomed run for Presidential nomination?
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Jun 24, 2015 17:59
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So y'alls position is that the vast majority of reporting on this issue in the last few days hasn't been focused on the Confederate flag?tsa posted:Find a reasonable path to repealing the 2nd and your opinion might actually be worth something. Can I use magic?
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Jun 24, 2015 18:00
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Aliquid posted:I think in Apple's case it would have been better had I invested in 1997. A solid argument for never changing anything, ever.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:00
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Pohl posted:Bobby Jindal has something he wants to tell everyone: http://www.bobbyjindal.com/announcement/ I can't wait to see what's next from the campaign whose first move is to release hidden camera footage of children. 
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Jun 24, 2015 18:02
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Radbot posted:A solid argument for never changing anything, ever. No, it's a pretty weak argument for that, but it's a pretty solid (okay, barely solid) counterargument against what it was countering.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:02
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Jun 24, 2015 18:04
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zoux posted:So y'alls position is that the vast majority of reporting on this issue in the last few days hasn't been focused on the Confederate flag? Brannock posted:All of this aside, zoux complaining that there's not actually a national discussion on race and racism in America is a straight up falsehood. Just now I easily pulled up a dozen journalism pieces and articles discussing the Charleston shooting giving context and depth to it while specifically calling out multiple problems with American society that contribute to the undercurrent of racism. Brannock posted:No less a person than Ta-Nehisi Coates demanded the Confederate flag to be taken down a day after the Charleston shooting. Actually read my posts instead of glossing over them you little shitgoblin. Just because you whine on D&D all day with MSM news running on your television instead of actually going out and seeing what's actually happening doesn't mean that you're going to get away with pretending that actual change isn't happening or in the process of happening right now. National discussion on race? Check, in so many different ways from so many different people and groups. Working towards another push for improved gun control? Oh yup! Abolition of cultural reverence for a traitor state? Happening right now! Or do I need to carefully spoon links to actual reasoned and in-depth articles on The Issue of American Racism into your widdle babbeh mouf? Do I need to support your weak and underdeveloped neck and point your overlarge head towards people actually tearing down racist icons? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 24, 2015 18:08
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zoux posted:I think the more important question is: is this flag stuff making wishy washy white liberals feel good? I think that answer is unequivocally and emphatically yes. This is generally the only thing we need to see from you to know why you have a sandy butthole. We get it, you feel like you're superior to white liberals. This is always what your issues boil down to.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:08
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I wonder what leftist monuments will be removed in retaliation as soon as the media frenzy dies down. Oh wait, there probably aren't any to remove!
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Jun 24, 2015 18:10
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Jun 24, 2015 18:10
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Trabisnikof posted:I wonder what leftist monuments will be removed in retaliation as soon as the media frenzy dies down. That Lenin statue in Seattle had better watch out.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:11
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zoux posted:I think the most important question is: is talking about racism and flags making zoux feel good? I think that answer is unequivocally and emphatically no. We have not "done" it until zoux feels good. We must focus on what is important here. Does this sound about right, zoux? Trying to get to the crux of your problem here. Woah. Can someone give some sort of context for this? Why?
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Jun 24, 2015 18:12
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computer parts posted:That Lenin statue in Seattle had better watch out. Funny enough, that statue is private property and is for sale! quote:The path to Seattle from Poprad, Slovakia, for this 8-ton bronze of the Communist revolutionary occurred because Lewis Carpenter of Issaquah saw it, bought it and brought it back after the collapse of the Soviet bloc. The irony.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:12
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Brannock posted:Actually read my posts instead of glossing over them you little shitgoblin. Just because you whine on D&D all day with MSM news running on your television instead of actually going out and seeing what's actually happening doesn't mean that you're going to get away with pretending that actual change isn't happening or in the process of happening right now. National discussion on race? Check, in so many different ways from so many different people and groups. Working towards another push for improved gun control? Oh yup! Abolition of cultural reverence for a traitor state? Happening right now! Hey bro if you think Atlantic columnists and WaPo articles are driving the national conversation then that would explain your misconceptions about media. That you can go a cherry-pick a few articles from people writing exclusively about race does not counter the argument that the places that most people get news from, that is FoxNews and CNN are focusing on this symbolic and tangential issue instead of the issues more closely related to the shooting. Talmonis posted:This is generally the only thing we need to see from you to know why you have a sandy butthole. We get it, you feel like you're superior to white liberals. This is always what your issues boil down to. Actually it boils down to the people on this forum jerking their dicks at their racist cousins on facebook being mad about the confederate flag and thinking that that is a desirable outcome.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:12
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Jun 24, 2015 18:13
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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GlyphGryph posted:Does this sound about right, zoux? Trying to get to the crux of your problem here. I honestly have no idea what you guys are so mad about.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:13
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zoux posted:So y'alls position is that the vast majority of reporting on this issue in the last few days hasn't been focused on the Confederate flag? What don't you get? It's this or nothing. It's removing and demonizing a symbol of a failed rebellion that was started because people wanted to keep owning other people. The country isn't going to have an intervention with itself because of the shooting, but it is saying "No, gently caress what that flag may or may not symbolize, it's coming down." It's the recognition that the flag itself being offensive that's a good first step. The whole point of non-violent protest is to shame the opposition into having to change in order to move forward. People sat at store counters while people screamed at them, poured food all over them, and beat them. The rest of the country looked on in loving horror at how black people were hosed down and had dogs ripping them apart in public. Shame of that brought meaningful change and while it didn't solve the problem, it certainly helped move things forward. Making people look like monsters is part of the process. Removing a powerful symbol because it's loving shameful to fly in public isn't as powerful a message as you want to hear, but it's another step forward we otherwise may not have taken without the shooting.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:14
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zoux posted:Hey bro if you think Atlantic columnists and WaPo articles are driving the national conversation then that would explain your misconceptions about media. That you can go a cherry-pick a few articles from people writing exclusively about race does not counter the argument that the places that most people get news from, that is FoxNews and CNN are focusing on this symbolic and tangential issue instead of the issues more closely related to the shooting. So you won't be happy until Fox News is having a discussion focused on the complex and systemic issues of racism? You're not going to be happy, sorry.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:14
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House Democrats are organizing a "Conga Line" to speak on the Ex-Im Bank today.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:15
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zoux posted:So y'alls position is that the vast majority of reporting on this issue in the last few days hasn't been focused on the Confederate flag? The flag is a symbol. Everyone knows exactly what the discussion is about; even if there is an appearance that this is all about a flag, it really isn't and you know it. It is a bit disingenuous to act like no one cares about the murders or the institutional racism behind them when what is being debated is directly related to those things. Again, everyone knows exactly what this argument is about, the flag is the symbol that is the public face or identity of the argument. Sure, it would be nice to be able to have a nice adult conversation about racism, but unless someone is a self avowed racist, no one thinks they are racist. That discussion isn't going to happen, but we can have that discussion in a circular and still positive way by focusing on the stupid flag. That flag represents the discussion we should be having but can't, it's symbolism represents all of the ideas that we can't have a productive conversation about. Once again, everyone on each side knows exactly what the discussion really is about. What you are writing off as a diversion or whatever you think it is, is actually incredibly productive and positive.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:16
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computer parts posted:That Lenin statue in Seattle had better watch out. Good thing the one in New York is on top of a building.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:16
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On Terra Firma posted:What don't you get? It's this or nothing. It's removing and demonizing a symbol of a failed rebellion that was started because people wanted to keep owning other people. The country isn't going to have an intervention with itself because of the shooting, but it is saying "No, gently caress what that flag may or may not symbolize, it's coming down." It's the recognition that the flag itself being offensive that's a good first step. It's a good first step yes. My argument is that if the sum total of social change that occurs because of the AME shooting is that the SC state capitol stops flying the flag, that is not enough.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:16
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Pohl posted:Bobby Jindal has something he wants to tell everyone: http://www.bobbyjindal.com/announcement/ Impeccable timing. 
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Jun 24, 2015 18:16
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zoux posted:I honestly have no idea what you guys are so mad about. If the straw arguments you're attacking weren't evidence enough, I think this is solid evidence you have a deep misunderstanding of the people you are attempting to communicate with. zoux posted:It's a good first step yes. My argument is that if the sum total of social change that occurs because of the AME shooting is that the SC state capitol stops flying the flag, that is not enough.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:17
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A good mass shooting would have been if every slave owner and CSA officer had been killed in 1865 and the stars and bars made illegal, see ya
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Jun 24, 2015 18:17
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Trabisnikof posted:So you won't be happy until Fox News is having a discussion focused on the complex and systemic issues of racism? I'd just be happy if any popular outlet was. Not even MSNBC is promoting stories about the shooting. It was literally only a week ago.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:17
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Jesus Christ. Gives you a good idea of how fast the political landscape changes its mind on what's acceptable.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:18
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GlyphGryph posted:No, it's a pretty weak argument for that, but it's a pretty solid (okay, barely solid) counterargument against what it was countering. Countering "I wish I Roof didn't have a gun" with "well I wish I invested in Apple in 1997" would've flunked me in debate, but hey.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:19
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Joementum posted:House Democrats are organizing a "Conga Line" to speak on the Ex-Im Bank today. If they do an actual Conga line I will break into someone's house to watch CSpan if I have to Or even if I don't
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Jun 24, 2015 18:20
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GlyphGryph posted:Woah. Can someone give some sort of context for this? Why? i.e. It is with great honor that I commemorate [EVENT NAME] for their [EVENT MILESTONE]. Since {FOUNDING DATE}, [EVENT NAME] has been a bastion of American ideals and blah blah b l a h. "What's up for today, Bobby?" 'Let's see... Young Farmers of America, 75th ann; Wisconsin Cheese-a-palooza, 350 lb wedge of Gouda;United Daughters of the Confederacy, 100th ann..." FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jun 24, 2015 |
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Jun 24, 2015 18:21
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zoux posted:It's a good first step yes. My argument is that if the sum total of social change that occurs because of the AME shooting is that the SC state capitol stops flying the flag, that is not enough. Well it was this or the sum total of social change being nil. Incrementalism: catch the fever!
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Jun 24, 2015 18:21
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Wasn't produced by the campaign.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:22
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DeusExMachinima posted:Do you agree it's probably bad policy to restrict someone from, like, anything solely because they were accused of a crime? It's cliche but liberty does involve accepting some otherwise avoidable risks, dawg. Well...yeah man. I'd rather that someone out on bail for domestic abuse doesn't have the option of buying a handgun over the counter. Also, please say "trigger warning" before you use (Trigger Warning:) "Liberty" with a straight face.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:22
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