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Whenever I hear "wait until all the facts are out" it's always a situation where facts wouldn't matter. "This unarmed man was killed by police that beat him to death instead of arresting him, wait until the facts are in that will totally excuse them."
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Jun 24, 2015 15:44
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Discendo Vox posted:OK then. Thank you for your contribution, will do! I guess I could post about headlights or property rights instead but I thought this was more interesting as an anecdote.
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Jun 24, 2015 16:35
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Radish posted:Whenever I hear "wait until all the facts are out" it's always a situation where facts wouldn't matter. "This unarmed man was killed by police that beat him to death instead of arresting him, wait until the facts are in that will totally excuse them." He means to wait until people have forgotten about it so it can be swept under the rug obviously.
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Jun 24, 2015 19:34
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hallebarrysoetoro posted:What the gently caress? I understand you need to go to bat to your employees but christ try to be a little less disingenuous. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest but pisses me off to no end that when police beat/injure/maim/kill someone it's immediately "WAIT FOR THE FACTS!!!!", but anyone else gets "well he was obviously A Bad Person and we did nothing wrong."
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Jun 24, 2015 20:18
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In lighter news... oopsie.quote:Canadian police have apologised after an explicit conversation was inadvertently broadcast from one of its helicopters.
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Jun 25, 2015 00:40
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Man, this guy has balls; I can't imagine the hell he's gonna' catch if he stays in Baltimore. (Former BPD officer goes on Twitter spree detailing abuses he/others participated in while he was on the force.)
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Jun 25, 2015 03:20
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Dead man walking.
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Jun 25, 2015 03:37
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silver lining: Najeh Davenport probably should send his resume to the BPD
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Jun 25, 2015 05:49
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Prosecutors will probe police response to cop who allegedly killed wife. Surprisingly good news! Maybe some sort of charges for officers that stood around watching their coworker gun down his wife in broad daylight on Main Street.quote:[Prosecutor Christopher Gramiccioni] said that if his office finds any wrongdoing on the part of any officer, it would be up to that respective police department to determine the appropriate discipline.
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Jun 25, 2015 16:06
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DARPA posted:Nevermind. Enabling your wife-murdering coworker puts you into the same disciplinary process as being late for a shift, or not having your uniform pressed properly. It's hard to discipline an employee for doing their job, killing innocent people. Though I guess in this case the problem was that they didn't kill enough people. ElCondemn fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Jun 25, 2015 |
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Jun 25, 2015 16:26
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DARPA posted:Prosecutors will probe police response to cop who allegedly killed wife. Surprisingly good news! Maybe some sort of charges for officers that stood around watching their coworker gun down his wife in broad daylight on Main Street. Unironically yes, failing to kill someone before they can commit murder is not a crime, its an employer disciplinary issue.
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Jun 25, 2015 18:43
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Jarmak posted:Unironically yes, failing to kill someone before they can commit murder is not a crime, its an employer disciplinary issue. Not knowing the details of this incident, it probably would have been better if the police had killed the suspect prior to shooting his wife, but not killing him afterwards is actually a display of positive restraint on their part. They correctly assessed that he was no longer an immediate threat to the safety of other bystanders (as evidenced by the fact that he did not attempt to shoot anyone else) and took him in alive to face the legal process, which is a better form of justice than summary execution. The officer in question is certainly not a sympathetic character, but remember that a core tenet of justice is that the rules are applied impartially to everybody. If there's a discrepancy in the way the police handled this shooting compared to other incidents that have been discussed in this thread, the problem is that they were too quick to violence in those cases, not that they failed to gun down this suspect with adequate zeal.
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Jun 25, 2015 21:13
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Voyager I posted:Not knowing the details of this incident, it probably would have been better if the police had killed the suspect prior to shooting his wife, but not killing him afterwards is actually a display of positive restraint on their part. They correctly assessed that he was no longer an immediate threat to the safety of other bystanders (as evidenced by the fact that he did not attempt to shoot anyone else) and took him in alive to face the legal process, which is a better form of justice than summary execution. He shot her on multiple occasions more than half an hour apart, with significant pauses during at least one of the times he was shooting her. The wife received no medical attention between the shootings since he was still standing over her with a gun.
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Jun 25, 2015 21:25
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I don't think people are upset about the first shots, its the fact that there was a pause after he shot her the first time and then he casually walked over a put a few more rounds into her while the cops watched on. So "correctly assessed that he was no longer an immediate threat" is kinda debatable since they didn't know she was 100% dead in between volleys. Edit: ^^ that
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Jun 25, 2015 21:26
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I'm 100% open to arguments that they should have shot him (again, not personally knowing enough about the details of the incident or general best-practices for such situations), but it is important to make the distinction that the problem was failure to protect the victim rather than failure to execute the criminal. Jarmak is also correct in that, even in the seemingly plausible case that the police responders failed to handle the situation correctly, the issue would still be a matter of department procedure rather than criminal justice. Allowing someone to come to harm through failure to act is a crime only in very specifically defined circumstances. Voyager I fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jun 25, 2015 |
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Jun 25, 2015 21:33
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You can read the last few pages to see the mud slinging back and forth over this, I don't think there is much more to say. The snarky response is that cops loves shoot first ask questions later at perceived threats (black people) but when it comes to one of their own all the sudden they are concerned about about the suspect even though he unambiguously holding a weapon. But yes, he is correct its not a crime for them fail at their job, its just another thing to sigh and shake your head about.
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Jun 25, 2015 21:41
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Even people who have different opinions on just what the cops should have done with him (shoot him or let him go?) can come to an agreement that he was treated far differently because of his profession. American police have a long record of killing civilians, both suspects who are actually a danger and disturbingly large amounts of people who are either not a threat or even completely innocent of any crime at the drop of a hat. But when there's a police officer who's in the middle of a psychotic breakdown and actively firing rounds into his wife in front of the police, they treat him with kid gloves.
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Jun 25, 2015 22:05
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C2C - 2.0 posted:Man, this guy has balls; I can't imagine the hell he's gonna' catch if he stays in Baltimore. Radley Balko at WaPo interviewed him regarding those tweets and it's an absolute must read. He gets into what snapped him out of the "us-vs-them" mentality the department drilled into his head and what he thinks needs to be done to reform policing: In short, cops need to drop the warrior/soldier mentality, stop treating everyone they deal with like the enemy, and develop some empathy for the people they're supposed to be protecting.
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Jun 25, 2015 23:50
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:He shot her on multiple occasions more than half an hour apart, with significant pauses during at least one of the times he was shooting her. The wife received no medical attention between the shootings since he was still standing over her with a gun. The two shootings were ~8 minutes apart not a half hour, it was a half hour from the first shooting to the surrender. chitoryu12 posted:Even people who have different opinions on just what the cops should have done with him (shoot him or let him go?) can come to an agreement that he was treated far differently because of his profession. American police have a long record of killing civilians, both suspects who are actually a danger and disturbingly large amounts of people who are either not a threat or even completely innocent of any crime at the drop of a hat. But when there's a police officer who's in the middle of a psychotic breakdown and actively firing rounds into his wife in front of the police, they treat him with kid gloves. To bring things full circle no, trying to treat this as "look cop's lives are worth more" is silly and requires complete ignorance of the ways human beings interact. I think this is a failure to fulfill their duties and they should be punished (and if what one poster said earlier is true, that she died in the hospital and therefore medical treatment could have made a difference, fired/blacklisted/maybe sued), but the hesitation to shoot a familiar coworker and/or disbelief that he's going to shoot you/her more is a pretty standard human reaction.
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Jun 26, 2015 00:43
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As somebody posted the LA Sheriff's beating a jail visitor yet?
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Jun 26, 2015 00:59
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Jarmak posted:the hesitation to shoot a familiar coworker and/or disbelief that he's going to shoot you/her more is a pretty standard human reaction. What? If that's the standard human reaction why was there a guns drawn stand off for 8 mins? Keeping up appearances?
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Jun 26, 2015 01:27
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All units SWAT is being called off. Suspect shot a hostage and we're pretty sure he's all tuckered out, have the hug unit on stand by. Somebody get burger king on the line.
Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jun 26, 2015 |
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Jun 26, 2015 01:36
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Intel&Sebastian posted:What? If that's the standard human reaction why was there a guns drawn stand off for 8 mins? Keeping up appearances? I'm confused how you think this post even makes sense, do you believe humans operate in completely binary reactions?
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Jun 26, 2015 01:49
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Update on the port orange officer that hit and killed a person driving a scooter while doing 65 in a 50: clicky clicky quote:An internal affairs investigation is clear when it states that Port Orange police Officer Silvio Portillo was driving the patrol car that struck and killed a man riding a scooter last year. But the Florida Highway Patrol could not legally prove that fact during a hearing Thursday, and a judge aquitted the officer of careless driving.
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Jun 26, 2015 11:52
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peengers posted:Update on the port orange officer that hit and killed a person driving a scooter while doing 65 in a 50:
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Jun 26, 2015 12:07
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That article reads like straight-up satire. Our justice system is irrevocably broken & hosed.
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Jun 26, 2015 12:10
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peengers posted:Update on the port orange officer that hit and killed a person driving a scooter while doing 65 in a 50: can somebody please explain this to me, because I don't understand the purpose this law is supposed to have: quote:White also said that any comments by Portillo would not be admissible due to Florida's traffic accident privilege. According to the privilege, statements made by the defendant in a crash as part of a traffic report and the report itself cannot be used against that person.
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Jun 26, 2015 12:27
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botany posted:can somebody please explain this to me, because I don't understand the purpose this law is supposed to have: It's to encourage people to be honest for purposes of civil liability settlements. Same reason things said during negotiations can't be used against you. Most traffic accidents are not criminal matters.
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Jun 26, 2015 12:41
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peengers posted:Update on the port orange officer that hit and killed a person driving a scooter while doing 65 in a 50: Also how bad does FHP have to gently caress up to not only not ID the driver but forget to write down which county the accident happened in?
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Jun 26, 2015 13:25
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Also how bad does FHP have to gently caress up to not only not ID the driver but forget to write down which county the accident happened in? It makes a lot more sense if you assume the cops writing it up weren't trying to get him in trouble.
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Jun 26, 2015 14:10
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peengers posted:Update on the port orange officer that hit and killed a person driving a scooter while doing 65 in a 50: poo poo like this makes me want to cross paths with the guy every day while he's off duty and just be like "hey, aren't you that officer that killed a guy because you were speeding and using your laptop?"
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Jun 26, 2015 14:16
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:It makes a lot more sense if you assume the cops writing it up weren't trying to get him in trouble.
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Jun 26, 2015 14:20
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RZA Encryption posted:poo poo like this makes me want to cross paths with the guy every day while he's off duty and just be like "hey, aren't you that officer that killed a guy because you were speeding and using your laptop?" That'd get you killed man.
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Jun 26, 2015 14:32
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Yeah but the FHP is staffed entirely by hateful morlocks. They feel no compassion, no mercy. Their only joy in life is loving up traffic on I-4. Don't forget about 95, 75, and 10. Actually the best cop encounter I had was with a cop on 95. I was on my bike drafting a car doing 90 and he clocked me, hit his lights and I pulled over. He told me he was surprised that I pulled over because most people on sportsbikes run, then he looked at my gear and said "and you're riding safe." Told me he had a sportsbike too, and sometimes it's easy to go way faster than you think you are and let me off. I wouldn't have balked at a ticket, I knew how fast I was going but honestly he was really nice and polite. I also had an incident where I was driving at night and a truck in front of me somewhere dropped a floor jack off of its bed, which took out the undercarriage of about 5 cars as it skittered across the road - it took out both passenger side tires of mine. I called the FHP, two units show up, one guy was a complete rear end in a top hat that I called to let them know about the hazard and the other actually told him to stop being an rear end in a top hat and that I did the right thing. It's a mixed bag, but at this point I would much rather deal with FHP than the local PD because the local ones are corrupt as gently caress.
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Jun 26, 2015 14:36
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Talmonis posted:That'd get you killed man. I don't really want to do it, I'm sure that guy has enough mental torture knowing that he ended an innocent life through his own neglect. I'm just mad about it and wishing pain on others. >=(
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Jun 26, 2015 14:36
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Yeah but the FHP is staffed entirely by hateful morlocks. They feel no compassion, no mercy. Their only joy in life is loving up traffic on I-4. Morlocks had important jobs.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:03
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Voyager I posted:Not knowing the details of this incident, it probably would have been better if the police had killed the suspect prior to shooting his wife, but not killing him afterwards is actually a display of positive restraint on their part. No, it's not positive at all. At this point all they know is that there is a severely injured woman in obvious need of immediate medical attention, with their buddy, her assailant, hovering over her with a gun. Keep in mind that she did not die until she got to the hospital. This entire time, after being shot the first time, the second time, and throughout all the time the police spent talking and compiling a goddamn Precious Memories scrapbook, this poor woman is bleeding to death in the car. You can't even make the claim that the police assumed she was dead, because we've all seen that, to the police, nobody's dead until a medical professional says they're dead. If you want a cite just let me know, I'll go dig up some pictures of bullet riddled black guys in handcuffs for you. It's not like they're hard to find. This is a dismal, unmitigated gently caress up.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:41
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In defense of the dudes that didn't shoot the cop who killed his wife: A - Shooting someone you know is hard. It makes you blink. B - More importantly, if and when those guys answer questions, what do you want them to say? Shoot anyone that might possibly pose a threat to anyone, ever? Do we want cops to act as robots? There's some serious groupthink going on here, those dudes were faced with a hard decision, and yeah, they hosed up. But if you want more cops to just shoot first and ask questions later, say it and quit bitching about the cops who kill people at the drop of a hat. Stop Monday morning quarterbacking this thing, jesus.
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Jun 26, 2015 16:56
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Shooting Blanks posted:In defense of the dudes that didn't shoot the cop who killed his wife: I think people's problems with the police is that it seems like being black looks more threatening to them than shooting someone with a gun.
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Jun 26, 2015 16:58
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