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Dapper_Swindler posted:http://www.reaxxion.com/9936/sjws-want-lead-artist-jason-martin-fired-from-new-doom-game who else will they find to make brown and grey maps with brown cacodemons
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Jun 26, 2015 20:51
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Shadoer posted:No, that a whole bunch of men and women went into #gamergate and feminism with hat in hand and sold them a bunch of snake oil in order to cash in. you keep asserting that these people you don't like are idiots but you don't seem to be able to demonstrate why. not very compelling imo. i'm just going to assume that you don't like these people and aren't honest with others or yourself as to why you don't like them
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Jun 26, 2015 20:51
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INH5 posted:Seriously, take a step back and apply Occam's Razor. What is the more likely explanation: that every single game genre with a majority female player base happens to be less worthy on objective measures than game genres with a majority male player base, or that our society's very powerful bias to take "feminine" things less seriously than "masculine" things also applies to video games, and even to video game journalists who call themselves Progressive? First of all we are not talking about every single game genre with majority female player base, we are talking about Hidden Object games. Actually its quite possible we are talking about every single genre with a majority female player base because Hidden Object might be it. Im sure the younger generation is bringing things closer to parity in the Minecraft clone genre but I would be surprised if it were female dominated. Anyway, we are arguing the exact same thing here, just from different points of view: Hidden object games are lovely. From your point of view people who play games are being blinded to the fact that maybe these games are not lovely, and are likely to dismiss them out of hand without playing them, theyre for girls and therefore lesser. From my, correct, point of view, people who play games avoid Hidden Object games because they are poorly made. These games are poorly made because the developers that make them have no respect for their audience. Our society's very powerful bias to take feminine tings less seriously than masculine things results in the creators of these games putting in little effort on the product. When the mobile market started to explode and developers saw that women were engaging with video games at a greater scale than ever before, developers started making games in the mobile space that cater to them. However, thats all they ever did. There was no impetus to innovate or make these games better. Its been a good five years since the start of the mobile revolution and every hidden objects game is still identical. Nobody innovated or tried to make something genuinely good because of a lack of respect for the audience, and now that the mobile market is so insanely saturated that its difficult to make money there anymore nobody ever will. Theres also the fact that nobody wants to pay any money for these games, even among people who enjoy them. Theyre viewed as free entertainment and the quality of the games reflects that.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:52
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Effectronica posted:Why are you incapable of dealing with external reality? Seriously, none of the hellthread conquistadors have fully-functioning human brains, yet they keep trying to talk down to people. It boggles the mind. Yes he who's great arguments involve name calling, ignoring points, and generally talking down to people. Like you're quickly becoming Tezzor replacement from the previous thread.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:52
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KoldPT posted:who else will they find to make brown and grey maps with brown cacodemons Dense motherfucker shouldn't have said he disliked Anita's youtube video!!!
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Jun 26, 2015 20:52
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Personally if someone gave me half a million dollars to make a mediocre youtube video about feminism in videogames I'd probablly give it all to a women's shelter or something because there is no way in hell I can put that money to as good a use as they can for the cause. At some point you have to tell people to stop they're being silly there are way more important things you should spend your money on.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:52
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I think it's not very good to be upset about how other people spend their money, but I do think that many spending habits can lead certain mediums such as journalism, or even video games, to be less appealing to other groups.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:52
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I sit with my legs together and crossed even when nobody else is around. I'm lying in bed with them crossed right now.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:53
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I love how all the femfreq defense is all about how all the haters are sexist bigots. Let's make her the epitome of femnist standards no matter what she did or didn't do, going against that would mean you are siding with assholes who can only speak in profanities.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:53
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Popular Thug Drink posted:so you're upset because this woman who you didn't give money to and who you don't agree with is taking too long to produce videos that you're not going to like anyway Personally, I'm not upset. In fact, I admire Anita's ability to convince suckers to give her money even when she partners with a guy who is basically what Stephen Colbert would act like if he decided to create a strawman liberal character. She has clearly learned a lot from her years working for a MLM guru and former pick up artist.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:53
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i cant loving believe the hellthread refugee camp has been overrun with communistic free market-phobes
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Jun 26, 2015 20:53
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Shadoer posted:I'd argue that rather than making an actual academic study of sexism in video games, they then did a bunch of bullshit cherrypicking and twisting of details to create a pile of bullshit. Not to mention that there's no way the documentary costed anywhere near $400,000 to make and produce. If people want to give them $400k to make something that costs a lot less than that amount to produce, so what?
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Jun 26, 2015 20:54
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OwlFancier posted:Personally if someone gave me half a million dollars to make a mediocre youtube video about feminism in videogames I'd probablly give it all to a women's shelter or something because there is no way in hell I can put that money to as good a use as they can for the cause. also an amount that adds up to the work hours spent posting in this thread
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Jun 26, 2015 20:54
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INH5 posted:Personally, I'm not upset. In fact, I admire Anita's ability to convince suckers to give her money even when she partners with a guy who is basically what Stephen Colbert would act like if he decided to create a strawman liberal character. She has clearly learned a lot from her years working for a MLM guru and former pick up artist. how are they suckers though generally if you're going to demonstrate that someone is a cheat and a liar you need actual proof of them being a cheat and a liar, simply accusing them of being a cheat and a liar isn't sufficient to convince other people who don't already agree with you
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Jun 26, 2015 20:54
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Popular Thug Drink posted:you keep asserting that these people you don't like are idiots but you don't seem to be able to demonstrate this. not very compelling imo. i'm just going to assume that you don't like these people and aren't honest with others or yourself as to why you don't like them Well I said they were being gullible and even said in this instance they were probably well meaning, the people that have been donating. If anything I've been saying people like Wu and Sarkessian aren't dumb, their just corrupt. And I think I am demonstrating things as people are giving money to those I've listed, being promised something and instead are getting poo poo all.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:54
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Its also unfair to use the Occams Razor argument in this case because you could use that argument for any activity that does not have proportional female representation. It completly disregards the fact that traditional video games and mobile games are entirely different beasts with compeltly different control schemes and limiting factors. This is a non-trivial reason why the games in the Hidden Object genre are so poor, the mobile platform is not as robust as computers or dedicated consoles for game creation and Hidden Object games are almost exclusively found on mobile.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:54
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Bholder posted:I love how all the femfreq defense is all about how all the haters are sexist bigots. Let's make her the epitome of femnist standards no matter what she did or didn't do, going against that would mean you are siding with assholes who can only speak in profanities. Like I said, I used to be a huge piece of poo poo, but now I am a huge piece of poo poo to people that my friends dislike, therefore I am a good person.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:54
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Dapper_Swindler posted:http://www.reaxxion.com/9936/sjws-want-lead-artist-jason-martin-fired-from-new-doom-game That site seems to have a bit of an editorial slant.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:54
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Bholder posted:I love how all the femfreq defense is all about how all the haters are sexist bigots. Let's make her the epitome of femnist standards no matter what she did or didn't do, going against that would mean you are siding with assholes who can only speak in profanities. i think she's dumb and wrong, and probably a f*ggot too (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 26, 2015 20:55
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Bholder posted:I love how all the femfreq defense is all about how all the haters are sexist bigots. Let's make her the epitome of femnist standards no matter what she did or didn't do, going against that would mean you are siding with assholes who can only speak in profanities. Um, excuse me, she and John are trained feminists. They got certificates on their mothers' respective fridges.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:55
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Shadoer posted:Yes he who's great arguments involve name calling, ignoring points, and generally talking down to people. Insisting that left-wing people are all insane cultists is OK. Calling them an idiot for doing so, well, that's bad. That's wrong. I am going to get so huffy about it. Bholder posted:I love how all the femfreq defense is all about how all the haters are sexist bigots. Let's make her the epitome of femnist standards no matter what she did or didn't do, going against that would mean you are siding with assholes who can only speak in profanities. Would you hold yourself up as an example of a non-sexist, non-bigoted "hater"?
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Jun 26, 2015 20:55
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Shadoer posted:Well I said they were being gullible and even said in this instance they were probably well meaning, the people that have been donating. If anything I've been saying people like Wu and Sarkessian aren't dumb, their just corrupt. so your evidence that anita sarkeesian is a thief is because she was given a bunch of money to make some videos, and then she made some videos and continues to make videos. but maybe she was given too much money?
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Jun 26, 2015 20:55
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INH5 posted:I agree that culture greatly influences behavior, but "culture" encompasses everything from how your parents raise you to how your friends treat you to the way the news is presented to you to the food you eat. Fictional entertainment media is only one part of that, and you can't jump from "culture as a whole influences behavior" to "this one part of culture has a great influence on behavior." Personally, my indication would be that fiction, which is, to quote an RPG writer, lies advertised as lies, would not have much of an effect compared to, for example, the values that your parents raise you with, and that the fiction a society produces would be far more a product than a cause of that society's culture. The scientific evidence seems to line up with this, as most studies only show short-term priming effects at most. Again going to relink this paper on self objectification and its link to sexy avatars. Cultural products not being real doesn't change the fact that it is both an expression of cultural ideas and thoughts as well as a way in which people learn what their culture at large thinks about things. Sure, the people you very personally respect and value saying explicit things are going to have a stronger effect than the one story where the one person did a thing in a fictional setting, but it doesn't negate the effects of fictional cultural products. It doesn't even mean that what your family explicitly tells you is going to override what your culture is constantly saying. I'm pretty sure black kids didn't learn black dolls are bad and ugly from their parents. Video games aren't unique in this, but they are still an aspect of it, and the one a dumb nerd forum like SA is gonna wanna talk about a lot.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:55
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Dapper_Swindler posted:http://www.reaxxion.com/9936/sjws-want-lead-artist-jason-martin-fired-from-new-doom-game This is a proportional response. Also nobody cares about Twitter and outrage culture isn't real.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:55
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Shadoer posted:Well I said they were being gullible and even said in this instance they were probably well meaning, the people that have been donating. If anything I've been saying people like Wu and Sarkessian aren't dumb, their just corrupt. is this some goon megathread thing where dudes will post picutres of a space ship and everyone empty quotes it for five pages with the ed mcmahon emoticon and smdh
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Jun 26, 2015 20:56
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The fact that the fastest moving thread in the world issues and global/local politics subforum is about a twitter flamewar says a lot.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:56
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this kickstarter has hehehehe it has the pfftthahaha this kikcstarter has the wrong stretch goals
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Jun 26, 2015 20:56
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paranoid randroid posted:is this some goon megathread thing where dudes will post picutres of a space ship and everyone empty quotes it for five pages with the ed mcmahon emoticon and smdh if aninta sarkeesian isn't a liar then why did feminists give her money
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Jun 26, 2015 20:56
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paranoid randroid posted:i cant loving believe the hellthread refugee camp has been overrun with communistic free market-phobes Lumpy the Cook posted:The fact that the fastest moving thread in the world issues and global/local politics subforum is about a twitter flamewar says a lot. 
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Jun 26, 2015 20:57
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unlimited shrimp posted:This is a proportional response. Also nobody cares about Twitter and outrage culture isn't real. "3 Ways You're Being Lied To Sign up to our weekly newsletter and find out how you're being deceived by the big gaming sites" Sounds like these people are truly the rational ones here.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:57
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paranoid randroid posted:is this some goon megathread thing where dudes will post picutres of a space ship and everyone empty quotes it for five pages with the ed mcmahon emoticon and smdh Vince McMahon, dumbass! Lumpy the Cook posted:The fact that the fastest moving thread in the world issues and global/local politics subforum is about a twitter flamewar says a lot. I unironically hate this website but I like some of the people here so I guess I'm hosed
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Jun 26, 2015 20:57
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XMNN posted:Things don't have to be real to be creepy. And we've come full circle! This was the point being illustrated. "It's just a game" or "it's just An Internet" is not a meaningful thing to say when discussing messages.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:58
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TGLT posted:I do not. If you're particularly interested in the whole "culture influences behavior" thing then you'd probably be better off googling "APA culture" and going through the studies that show up anyways. Or going through the American Sociological Association's pages and journals and stuff. That one you cite now in the edit I have read a while ago because a youtuber I watch that's into the oWoD RPG's posted it. Having not read it recently though, from my memory that thesis is a huge false equivalence. First of all I want to know on what planet they think that using what is essentially an occulus rift is in any way a typical gaming experience. I don't know a single person that owns an occulus rift, or plans to when they come out. They openly cite the game WoW at one point as a comparison if I remember, something where you "become" your character. Putting on a helmet, looking down, seeing a fatbody and getting sad is not the same experience as playing WoW from your desktop no matter how much the authors want it to be. But IT COULD mean that if you do put on an occulus rift helmet, look down, and see a fatbody or whatever and get sad, then that may have some effect on something. Also, if you look down and see yourself as something you don't want to be, of course the expected result would be negative. The entire study stems on the fact that their experiment was as fully immersive as they could make it. I never have been immersed enough in a game to make me actually feel as though I was in it, and I can't imagine that most non delusional people have, but I can't speak for everyone.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:58
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Effectronica posted:"3 Ways You're Being Lied To 1.) Dressing up the rewriting of press releases by capcom marketing dept as journalism 2.) Using a rating scale to grade reviews 3.) Theyre all console babies who need to buy a computer
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Jun 26, 2015 20:58
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Bholder posted:I love how all the femfreq defense is all about how all the haters are sexist bigots. Let's make her the epitome of femnist standards no matter what she did or didn't do, going against that would mean you are siding with assholes who can only speak in profanities. TBF the reaction and vitriol from people who didn't contribute to the Kickstarter and have no actual intent to engage with her work has kind of pushed things in that direction, crowding out real conversation and criticism.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:58
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Effectronica posted:"3 Ways You're Being Lied To
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Jun 26, 2015 20:58
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UberJew posted:the beasts from the new splat hang out with the fair folk from new changeling and consider them buddies and their 'villains' include a little girl a beast put into a coma who dared to fight back in dreamland, "but if you think that makes them look like the baddies you're actually a racist they're 100% good guys" -devs Wow, that's pretty loltastic. XMNN posted:It's breathed new life into something that was naturally dying down on its own. Yeah, it really is funny. If they had just left it in gbs it would have slowed down, but now this is moving at the speed of light.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:59
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Meme Emulator posted:1.) Dressing up the rewriting of press releases by capcom marketing dept as journalism you can tell none of these newbs ever waited patiently by the mailbox for this month's Nintendo Power
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Jun 26, 2015 20:59
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Effectronica posted:Insisting that left-wing people are all insane cultists is OK. Calling them an idiot for doing so, well, that's bad. That's wrong. I am going to get so huffy about it. No, I and other's basically specified that it's the extreme left wing and the influence they appear to have. Like in my opinion there's nothing wrong with the left in general, just it has it's extreme fringe just as the right has them. Like I would say feminism in the sense of pushing for equal rights for women and promoting show's that empower women are good and left wing. I would also say that pushing feminism by defining it as trying to eliminate masculinity and violence as well trying to censor anything that isn't promoting a feminist agenda, is an extreme position and part of the extreme left.
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Jun 26, 2015 21:00
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unlimited shrimp posted:This is a proportional response. Also nobody cares about Twitter and outrage culture isn't real. I don't know what the dev did but he deserves to get fired 
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