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Anatharon posted:I don't understand why they felt the need to change the names of stats to be such a mess, EQ and vanilla WoW and all those old games they revered just used strength intellegence dexterity or whatever, right? You shut right up now, MOXIE is the best name for a stat like ever
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Jun 26, 2015 20:15
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itt people literally cannot mouseover stat names on their character sheet
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Jun 26, 2015 20:16
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Libluini posted:You shut right up now, MOXIE is the best name for a stat like ever It was really cool in kingdom of loathing, in 2003.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:25
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I'm guessing Assault is straight up attack power and strikethrough is.. armor penetration?
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Jun 26, 2015 20:35
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Anatharon posted:I'm guessing Assault is straight up attack power and strikethrough is.. armor penetration? it's expertise
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Jun 26, 2015 20:40
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Metrohunter posted:itt people literally cannot mouseover stat names on their character sheet That isn't enough. As an MMO developer, if you want to claim that you have developed a good UI then stat names should be something that most players can relate to and be memorable so that the player does not have to reference their character sheet often. That plus WS's system goes way beyond HG^&*^&^%S = Base Damage.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:58
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What's wrong with naming a stat after Moxie? It's a pretty good soda...
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Jun 26, 2015 21:24
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What's great is in LUA all of the stats have the same name as WoW stats. It's only on the UI itself that it's called something stupid.
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Jun 26, 2015 21:30
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Rhymenoserous posted:What's great is in LUA all of the stats have the same name as WoW stats. It's only on the UI itself that it's called something stupid. Oh poo poo we totally forgot we hardcored the wow clone. Easy put a bandaid on it! Lets call it hardcore and say cupcakes alot.
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Jun 26, 2015 21:36
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Rhymenoserous posted:What's great is in LUA all of the stats have the same name as WoW stats. It's only on the UI itself that it's called something stupid. OK, this is kind of lame. And dumb. It's not like the names are that different conceptually. I conclude from this the Wildstar-devs are either cursed with bad memory and can only process stats if they're named like in every other RPG ever made, or they're full of poo poo. Possibly both.
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Jun 26, 2015 21:46
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did someone say anime is good?
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Jun 26, 2015 21:57
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:did someone say anime is good? this is how I feel about anime https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP5lz2CYNR4
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Jun 26, 2015 22:33
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Rhymenoserous posted:What's great is in LUA all of the stats have the same name as WoW stats. It's only on the UI itself that it's called something stupid. when ripping off wow's stats and gw2's mechanics, they really should have left tabula rasa's miserable failure out of the recipe
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Jun 26, 2015 22:38
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Thunderbro posted:when ripping off wow's stats and gw2's mechanics, they really should have left tabula rasa's miserable failure out of the recipe Agreed except Tabula Rasa was actually a cool game, the 'failure' was with the chinese dudes forging Lord British's signature while he was in space so they could shut the game down. How lovely do you have to be to do something like that.
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Jun 26, 2015 23:31
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Kelp Plankton posted:it didn't work for Super Monday Night Combat I am sad to hear that SMNC turned out to be poo poo. The original was a lot of fun.
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Jun 27, 2015 00:21
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CoffeeBooze posted:I am sad to hear that SMNC turned out to be poo poo. The original was a lot of fun. the devs had a solid core to the game and just screwed it over in every way possible. they accidentally launched the game during the beta among other huge stupid problems it was pretty unfortunate. still hoping they try again with an MNC2 that reuses the new characters or something
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Jun 27, 2015 00:50
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CoffeeBooze posted:I am sad to hear that SMNC turned out to be poo poo. The original was a lot of fun. I loved both Monday Night Combat and SMNC and I still miss them. Uber got screwed over by their exclusivity deal with Microsoft for MNC and SMNC was accidentally launched too early, causing Uber to panic and push forward despite SMNC not being anywhere near done. They eventually ran out of money to properly keep developing for the game. Uber did a lot right with both games and I still miss the voice of Mickey Cantor, the real hero of the series.
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Jun 27, 2015 01:41
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IIRC the way stats worked is you just wanted to max assault if you were DPS and support if you were a tank or healer, so all the dumb names were just a weird way of masking the exact same system every other MMO uses where you have one prime stat that you stack.
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Jun 27, 2015 02:06
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WarLocke posted:Agreed except Tabula Rasa was actually a cool game, the 'failure' was with the chinese dudes forging Lord British's signature while he was in space so they could shut the game down. Korean dudes (NCsoft)
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Jun 27, 2015 02:26
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The Moon Monster posted:IIRC the way stats worked is you just wanted to max assault if you were DPS and support if you were a tank or healer, so all the dumb names were just a weird way of masking the exact same system every other MMO uses where you have one prime stat that you stack. Well mostly. The uber spergs looked at the other parts of the formula too and there are a lot of people like this in WS. But in the end, you are right which begs the question why mask at all right?
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Jun 27, 2015 03:06
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the most important stat is proper dressup and that comes in two varieties: space barbie, and space barbie dreamhouse
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Jun 27, 2015 03:15
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Xavier434 posted:Well mostly. The uber spergs looked at the other parts of the formula too and there are a lot of people like this in WS. But in the end, you are right which begs the question why mask at all right? We're so hardcore that we have secondary stats, but we're gonna randomize the names so they are different on each character, that way figuring out what gear to get at the AH at 11 P.M. is extra confusing, cupcake.
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Jun 27, 2015 03:34
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If it's called +Crit Severity, why not just put +Crit Severity on the gear? What is this, some WoW MMO for babbies? +Crit Severity will be called Moxie, STR, DEX, Anger Management, Arugula, and Timmy Horton's depending on what alt you are playing. We don't want anyone figuring out gear unless they've put the work into it!
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Jun 27, 2015 03:36
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Metrohunter posted:the most important stat is proper dressup and that comes in two varieties: space barbie, and space barbie dreamhouse Space Barbie with cancer of the Tasteful Colors gland
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Jun 27, 2015 03:57
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The Moon Monster posted:IIRC the way stats worked is you just wanted to max assault if you were DPS and support if you were a tank or healer, so all the dumb names were just a weird way of masking the exact same system every other MMO uses where you have one prime stat that you stack. Yeah but if I remember right you also wanted some amount of strikethrough (expertise, hit rating, whatever) for the given level of content you were on. I think it was different from adventures to dungeons to raids. The thing I remember most was spending all my gold on the fifty different things you needed to assemble for loving runes, then equipping all those runes to get a SWEET PROC of like literally 4 extra damage on your attacks. I guess they addressed this somewhat by making a previously completely worthless currency that you accumulated thousands of incidentally useful for buying some of the basic ones or something. This doesn't even mention the asinine way runes combined, only fit in certain slots, only had certain stats available for certain types in certain places and the endless loving loops from the auction house to the mailbox to the rune crafting/inserting station. The poo poo was unbelievably stupid. You need nine of this type of rune across all your gear to activate level 1 effect! You need 16 of this rune to activate level 2! What happens if I change a piece of gear? Hope your new gear has the right types of rune slots in the correct numbers otherwise gently caress you.
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Jun 27, 2015 04:44
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I don't really mind the alternate names for stats, but having all the different stats do different things for each class is a surefire way to confuse the poo poo out of newer players. You want to be able to look at a drop and go, "okay this will be good on my (class X)" or "okay this is an upgrade to my current gear" instead of "errr which stat did espers use for crit again". Yes, you could make the argument that you want to reduce competition over drops by having each class use a different stat profile - but there are better, less confusing ways of accomplishing that.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:26
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Mormon Star Wars posted:If it's called +Crit Severity, why not just put +Crit Severity on the gear? What is this, some WoW MMO for babbies? +Crit Severity will be called Moxie, STR, DEX, Anger Management, Arugula, and Timmy Horton's depending on what alt you are playing. We don't want anyone figuring out gear unless they've put the work into it! Because the stats didn't do the same thing for every class. They made it so Moxie was +Crit Severity for class A and +Mana for class B.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:29
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See in theory this is a good idea as by making stats do different things you can make gear viable equally for multiple classes, you give your healers healing and mana and your DPS bigger crits and damage... In theory.
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Jun 27, 2015 12:17
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Vanderdeath posted:I loved both Monday Night Combat and SMNC and I still miss them. Uber got screwed over by their exclusivity deal with Microsoft for MNC and SMNC was accidentally launched too early, causing Uber to panic and push forward despite SMNC not being anywhere near done. They eventually ran out of money to properly keep developing for the game. And then they put a bitcoin miner in the SMNC game files.
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Jun 27, 2015 13:26
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Schubalts posted:And then they put a bitcoin miner in the SMNC game files. they never actually did that they made a bitcoin miner you could download and earn keys to open some lovely chests, but it was never in the game itself's files and you had to go out of your way to download it from their forums SMNC did a lot of stupid poo poo, and the bitcoin miner was one of them, but they didn't try to sneak it into the game or force it on players or anything
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Jun 27, 2015 14:09
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Stormgale posted:See in theory this is a good idea as by making stats do different things you can make gear viable equally for multiple classes, you give your healers healing and mana and your DPS bigger crits and damage... In theory. All healing classes were also DPS classes though, as were all tank classes. So you still had separate pieces of gear for each role.
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Jun 27, 2015 14:28
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sword_man.gif posted:it's expertise Funny thing is I have no idea which one you mean, because the names are all special snowflakes.
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Jun 27, 2015 14:31
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Thunderbro posted:when ripping off wow's stats and gw2's mechanics, they really should have left tabula rasa's miserable failure out of the recipe a good Thunderbro post
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Jun 27, 2015 15:02
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Lol
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Jun 27, 2015 19:11
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Just think about all the word of mouth they're getting. Carbine are a bunch marketing experts.
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Jun 28, 2015 05:56
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Complicated stat systems are 100% pure Columbian rpg. You dumb it down too much and you have gear that is just "+10 more health, +10 do better". Like diablo 3. That being said wildstars was a mess.
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Jun 28, 2015 14:07
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Another option would be to have stats that do things which are interesting. Like Diablo 3.
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Jun 28, 2015 15:00
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Metrohunter posted:space hamsters own
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Jun 28, 2015 15:01
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Stormgale posted:See in theory this is a good idea as by making stats do different things you can make gear viable equally for multiple classes, you give your healers healing and mana and your DPS bigger crits and damage... In theory. It's dumber than that, actually. The secondary stats did the same things but swapped around. The goal wasn't to make gear pieces equally viable for multiple classes, it was the opposite: to make gear significantly better for some classes than others. This isn't a bad thing- you generally want to reduce loot competition down to a certain level. Now in a normal MMO, this is done by making classes prioritize different secondary stats over others. But that's hard, you have to like design the classes differently and balance them and all. So instead, all similar classes/specs generally prioritize the same stuff (to the point that wildstar had the simplest stat priorities of any MMO I've ever played) but classes prioritize different gear because different stats mean the same things. So like a piece of gear with 50 finesse and 25 moxie is spellslinger DPS gear, a piece of gear with 50 moxie, 25 finesse is esper DPS gear. These two pieces of gear are identical in terms the actual stats they provide to their users because spellslinger and esper have basically identical stat priorites. Like they have different stat weights but the specific weights are irrelevant because any given piece of gear is so binary in its usefulness, since finesse is SO MUCH BETTER than moxie for spellslingers and moxie is SO MUCH BETTER than finesse for espers. It turns out, btw, that ignoring some key aspects of class design and papering over it with a confusing stat system is a terrible idea. The total apathy toward stat weights is WHY you ended up with things like: - Gear stats being largely ignored by players in favor of glyph slots, because the game invites you to prioritize your primary stat over anything and be willing to kill your grandmother for 20 assault power, which a good roll on glyph slots will get you 2 or 3 times. - Players using crafted gear for raiding because you can roll out good glyph slots and also pump everything into a single seriously-overvalued stat. - Dungeons being ignored outside the attunement/legendary quest lines because their itemization was aggressively bad because nobody on the itemization or raid teams ever bothered to learn about stat weights. - Heavy/medium armor players sometimes prioritizing light/medium armor because the class that loot is "for" has the same primary stat and is better-itemized, thus increasing loot competition and destroying the entire point of this system. Incidentally, this is also WHY the stats are so vaguely-named: they intentionally chose totally vague, meaningless stats names since there is no relationship between a stat and what it does in any objective sense, so the stats have to be named meaningless buzzwords.
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Jun 28, 2015 15:10
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Agreed. Stats were even more disturbing in beta when we had a crazier, beefier circuit system too and milestones linked 100% to your statistics. Those milestones were littered with rng procs or amps with poo poo drop rates. At least they tried to make their systems hard for a couple of weeks until they started "listening" into oblivion.
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