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Dapper Dan posted:I can't speak for everyone, but I think most of it just didn't want it taken out of historical war games or simulations. And others didn't want to defend their heritage or whatever (there might have been, I have no idea) but didn't want it being censored because of free speech issues. For me, it is a bit more complicated because I loathe the loving thing, but at the same time I support freedom of speech. i agree with you here, but what does this have to do with SJWs or gamergate Dapper Dan posted:Part of it is the theory of the chain of free speech, which states that free speech is only as strong as its weakest link, which is really ugly, hateful poo poo. That's why you get the ACLU defending the KKK and Neo-Nazis. It isn't accepting of the flag itself or the ideas behind it, its accepting that people have a right to say what they want without it being censored, even if it is the most repugnant poo poo imaginable. I do have a hard time stomaching that, as chattle slavery was one of the loving most awful things in our history and that flag should never fly anywhere. i see free speech as a garden. if you let anything grow wherever it wants, you're going ot end up with an ugly mess where the biggest and most obnoxious plants take most of the space. you have to trim and moderate things to allow all plants to grow like i don't see chan type boards as a bastion of free speech, i see it as an obnoxious shrieking mass where the people with the most time to waste and most tolerance for horrid things dominate the conversation through sheer persistence, by driving all other opinions away in my office job i don't steer meetings the way i want them to go, if i want something to happen i speak the right words to the right people at the right time and things happen the way i want them to. blurting about how much my opinion matters and how much power i have isn't going to get me what i want, i have to work within the rules that everyone collectively decides on and not the rules as i Will them to be
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Jun 27, 2015 05:26
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i agree with you here, but what does this have to do with SJWs or gamergate Apple store removed all American Civil War games. Without exception.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:27
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i know people keep throwing this accusation around, but as soon as aatrek was confirmed as a sexual abuser, he was permabanned. many other users have been permad for actual or cartoon child porn over the years. it is not permitted here Not good enough. So how does it feel being a pedophile? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 27, 2015 05:27
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Unfunny Poster posted:Wasn't the claim that Moot was "corrupted by SJWs"? that's what they call anybody that disagrees with them. they got real mad over a john oliver bit on internet harassment because they used short clips of anita and wu as examples, even though they had others that went into far more detail.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:27
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LostRook posted:Apple store removed all American Civil War games. Without exception. yes, but, like i said, what does apple's corporate decision have to do with SJWs or gamergate is tim cook a SJW now
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Jun 27, 2015 05:27
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i see free speech as a garden. if you let anything grow wherever it wants, you're going ot end up with an ugly mess where the biggest and most obnoxious plants take most of the space. you have to trim and moderate things to allow all plants to grow from my experience with those kinds of sites, you nailed it. appropriately they call any kind of moderation "censorship" and cry a lot about it.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:28
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Al Cowens posted:Well I don't know about you but when I see poo poo like this happening both online and off all I can see is insidious dog-whistle racism from people who would be quite pleased to see me be as terrified as an antebellum era negro. Perhaps in the year 2027 we will be finally exterminated and have white people with perms take our place. i'm only quoting you here to let you know that i'm not ignoring you, but i seriously have no idea what you're trying to communicate to me i think you feel like you're persecuted by someone for some opinions you hold but i honestly can't make heads or tails of it. i'm sorry that i can't understand
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Jun 27, 2015 05:29
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yes, but, like i said, what does apple's corporate decision have to do with SJWs or gamergate
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Jun 27, 2015 05:31
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i know people keep throwing this accusation around, but as soon as aatrek was confirmed as a sexual abuser, he was permabanned. many other users have been permad for actual or cartoon child porn over the years. it is not permitted here people forget that 4chan formed after the massive pedo purge of ADRTW back in the day
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Jun 27, 2015 05:31
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Al Cowens posted:He has been labelled as such, but I don't think he is. He's just playing a corporate PR game. They made a calculated decision, scrutinized the current political climate of their consumers, considered how much capital they stand to lose or gain, and decided to remove. Their committee of analysts in a board room decided that they would alienate less consumers if they took this stance instead of that other one. ok so this is just standard corporate overabundance of caution that blows up in their face. my career is in software, i've seen this happen dozens of times what does it have to do with SJWs or gamergate
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Jun 27, 2015 05:32
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Popular Thug Drink posted:
That is an awfully totalitarian view to have.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:32
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Popular Thug Drink posted:ok so this is just standard corporate overabundance of caution that blows up in their face. my career is in software, i've seen this happen dozens of times stop being dense.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:33
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KongMu posted:That is an awfully totalitarian view to have. maybe if you're some kind of ancap who thinks rule of law is dictatorship of the proles, sure. otherwise it's how pretty much how every human society functions
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Jun 27, 2015 05:34
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Bholder posted:stop being dense. i'm just saying that in my many years of seeing firsthand how c suite types quickly overreach to capitalize on current events, i never once thought "this decision was made out of a strong belief in social justice" your personal experience with boardroom decisions may vary, however, and i can respect that
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Jun 27, 2015 05:36
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Popular Thug Drink posted:maybe if you're some kind of ancap who thinks rule of law is dictatorship of the proles, sure. otherwise it's how pretty much how every human society functions I don't think that, unfortunately for you, but I do think that squelching out speech that is uncomfortable to hear is inherently a totalitarian ideal.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:36
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KongMu posted:I don't think that, unfortunately, but I do think that squelching out speech that is uncomfortable to hear is inherently a totalitarian ideal. you're framing me as silencing dissent. i look at it more as not allowing a car alarm to go off in the parking lot all night long. that car alarm does not have a right to honk every two seconds for hours at a time like it's easy for people to think that they're being persecuted, when it's just as likely that they're obnoxious, unpopular, and purposely disrupting the majority
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Jun 27, 2015 05:37
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KongMu posted:I don't think that, unfortunately, but I do think that squelching out speech that is uncomfortable to hear is inherently a totalitarian ideal. I think the idea is that if its an open contest whomever has the most "volume" (people, platform, both) ends up "winning" to the point they crush everyone else out of even being able to respond
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Jun 27, 2015 05:37
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Popular Thug Drink posted:
Gamergate is against banning games?
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Jun 27, 2015 05:37
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i'm only quoting you here to let you know that i'm not ignoring you, but i seriously have no idea what you're trying to communicate to me It's not just video games, but GamerGate happens to be one of their obstacles.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:38
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LostRook posted:Gamergate is against banning games? so gamergate thinks that removing any game from a private service for any reason is a SJW ideal? is that what you're saying?
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Jun 27, 2015 05:39
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Al Cowens posted:Allow me to state my position without troll or ruse: White feminists are very racist authoritarians and are trying to erase my very existence both metaphorically (rendered invisible, incarcerated, denied freedom of expression) and more literally (dead). This wouldn't be so bad if they were impotent, but they have managed to influence the popular culture at large (video games are pretty popular) and it's starting to feel increasingly threatening. /pol/ wish they had the kind of power and public sympathy that Anita has. Thank heavens they do not. what are the other ways in which white feminists are trying to murder you? it can't just be through trying to ban the kinds of games you like to play.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:39
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Al Cowens posted:Allow me to state my position without troll or ruse: White feminists are very racist authoritarians and are trying to erase my very existence both metaphorically (rendered invisible, incarcerated, denied freedom of expression) and more literally (dead). This wouldn't be so bad if they were impotent, but they have managed to influence the popular culture at large (video games are pretty popular) and it's starting to feel increasingly threatening. /pol/ wish they had the kind of power and public sympathy that Anita has. Thank heavens they do not. You're loving insane, mate
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Jun 27, 2015 05:41
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i'm just saying that in my many years of seeing firsthand how c suite types quickly overreach to capitalize on current events, i never once thought "this decision was made out of a strong belief in social justice" "SJWs" overreact about the confederate flag being racist. Companies start removing confederate flags everywhere because PR. Apple removes video games because of this. Gamergate is about video games. Stop acting retarded, not sure what you want to bait out here.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:42
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i agree with you here, but what does this have to do with SJWs or gamergate Not much really, but some people in GG are extremely anti-censorship, so they took it up as their cause. Mainly because of Apple removing the games. It really is just a huge mish-mash of stuff which makes it hard to pin down exactly what they are or what they care about. It is good to have moderation, sure. I mean, if you don't, you get poo poo like /pol/ which started out as a parody board and just became utterly horrifying. Some people really just don't want that, unfortunately. They want a place where they can scream and throw poo poo at each other and generally just be as despicable as possible. Even twitter is like this, because 140 characters doesn't give you a lot of leeway to be civil. It boils ideas down to their least complicated and radicalizes everything. And that leads to poo poo slinging as well. Some people just want to roll in filth. The only good thing is that you can safely ignore places like these, and unless they are doing patently illegal things (like swatting, trading child porn, doxxing, etc.) they really won't affect your life. If we banned all the chans, they would only go to Tor anyway. At least this way people can see the horrible poo poo they do and maybe if they are doing something illegal, stop them before they do anything. But I do agree, these places do not encourage a large amount of ideas or civilized discussion.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:43
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Bholder posted:"SJWs" overreact about the confederate flag being racist. so you think that the long standing opposition to the confederate flag is rooted in tumblr reactions to video games?
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Jun 27, 2015 05:43
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LostRook posted:Apple store removed all American Civil War games. Without exception. And what does that have to do with ethics in games journalism?
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Jun 27, 2015 05:44
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Popular Thug Drink posted:so gamergate thinks that removing any game from a private service for any reason is a SJW ideal? is that what you're saying? Do you get paid to be reductionist? All games involving the American Civil War is not "any game." It's similar to Hatred, people attempting to ban a game on a deceptive or ill-considered basis. Hatred was only attempted to be banned from Steam, which is only one of several PC distribution methods. If I'm not mistaken, the Apple Store is the only distribution method for iPhones which means that they effectively cease to exist.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:44
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Popular Thug Drink posted:so you think that the long standing opposition to the confederate flag is rooted in tumblr reactions to video games? ...yes, brilliant deduction.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:44
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Popular Thug Drink posted:so gamergate thinks that removing any game from a private service for any reason is a SJW ideal? is that what you're saying? The antis have, still do, and most likely will continue to routinely call for the censorship of games and other media that do not fit their Portland yuppie centric view of what progressive really means.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:44
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Dapper Dan posted:Not much really, but some people in GG are extremely anti-censorship, so they took it up as their cause. Mainly because of Apple removing the games. It really is just a huge mish-mash of stuff which makes it hard to pin down exactly what they are or what they care about. in my experience people who are very deeply anti-censorship tend to have very fringe and unhealthy opinions i agree that apple made a dumb decision but it makes sense entirely from a framework that corporate suits often do incredibly dumb things. the one place where the rebel flag should exist is in media centered around the events in which that flag was first flown ultimate general: gettysburg is a super good game by the way and if you're interested in a civil war light strategy game that's the one to get, it's well done
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Jun 27, 2015 05:45
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Popular Thug Drink posted:you're framing me as silencing dissent. i look at it more as not allowing a car alarm to go off in the parking lot all night long. that car alarm does not have a right to honk every two seconds for hours at a time Fabricated posted:I think the idea is that if its an open contest whomever has the most "volume" (people, platform, both) ends up "winning" to the point they crush everyone else out of even being able to respond This is monumentally stupid. Of course it is disrupting and obnoxious to the majority. Of course the loudest voices are heard the most. That is what allows for discourse and appropriate ridicule.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:46
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LostRook posted:Do you get paid to be reductionist? i dont' agree with apple though, i've said that more than a few time so i don't know why you're trying to attack me here as agreeing with apple banning something from a privately run service is not a crimp on free speech. corporations do not have to honor your speech or provide you with a platform for said speech
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Jun 27, 2015 05:47
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sjw=jews is kinda stupid because israel should be criticised. death to israel, m i rite exclamation marx? those were good times. hey how about a bland political comic? good times man.... gooooood times
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Jun 27, 2015 05:47
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Exclamation Marx posted:And what does that have to do with ethics in games journalism? That's the oppositions mocking definition of gamergate, not a defined limit.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:48
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KongMu posted:This is monumentally stupid. Of course it is disrupting and obnoxious to the majority. Of course the loudest voices are heard the most. That is what allows for discourse and appropriate ridicule. i don't think it's stupid to remove disruptive people or restrict their speech. people who tend to be super obnoxious about a thing usually don't have anything useful to say anyway. speech isn't an abstract good, it's a series of relationships between people and is thus subject to interpersonal dynamics such as "this person is horrible and i wish they would shut up"
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Jun 27, 2015 05:48
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seems to me that corporate censorship is much more of an immediate and pressing concern given that gaming journalism just reproduces press releases from gaming companies as news.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:48
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Dreylad posted:seems to me that corporate censorship is much more of an immediate and pressing concern given that gaming journalism just reproduces press releases from gaming companies as news. And that mainstream journalism just reproduce articles by games journalists.
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Jun 27, 2015 05:49
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Al Cowens posted:While corporate censorship is not as shameful as government censorship, it still sets a chilling effect. Thankfully, there is still Steam. how is it even censorship? i have no obligation to allow you to plant political signs in my yard. i am not restricting your speech by throwing them in the trash i am curious though about the other ways in which white feminists are trying to make sure that you die, that i would like to hear more about
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Jun 27, 2015 05:49
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Popular Thug Drink posted:how is it even censorship? i have no obligation to allow you to plant political signs in my yard. i am not restricting your speech by throwing them in the trash Are you actually going for the "Only the government can censor things" argument?
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Jun 27, 2015 05:51
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LostRook posted:Are you actual going for the "Only the government can censor things" argument? it's a true argument, only the government can censor things, because only the government has the legal authority to actively punish you for speech
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Jun 27, 2015 05:51
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