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Wulfolme posted:Of course it's absurd. The point is that The Law and even plain old precedent can be used to justify absurd things whether you like it or not. You have to make decisions with the absurd in mind. You're right, nobody should ever tell anyone not to say anything.
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Jun 27, 2015 06:26
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Wulfolme posted:They're not legally prevented from doing it. But do you approve of them doing it? Do you really think that it's acceptable for a company with a near-monopoly on video hosting in this country to silence a political viewpoint because a lot of people don't want to hear it? What's your alternative? Mandating that if a corporation/person allows any speech they must allow all? If I print a newsletter am I required to print your op-ed in it? How can you handle the "censorship" of something awful? The mods ban many political beliefs they dislike.
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Jun 27, 2015 06:29
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Wulfolme posted:They're not legally prevented from doing it. But do you approve of them doing it? Do you really think that it's acceptable for a company with a near-monopoly on video hosting in this country to silence a political viewpoint because a lot of people don't want to hear it? yes, because they dont silence political viewpoints, they silence harmful and illegal viewpoints, which by and large are things that aren't worth providing a platform to anyways i'm an old person so i've seen enough things by now to feel like not all speech is worth protecting. there's a lot of dumb, repetitive, worthless speech out there that i don't care about, and there's a subset of that which is actively harmful where the relative benefit of defending said speech in defense of larger abstract rights to free speech is not worth the practical harms that said speech inflicts like a random person badly articulating their belief that white people are superior to black people: i have no problem with this individual bit of video being banned, because it is worthless boner confessor fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Jun 27, 2015 |
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Jun 27, 2015 06:30
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Motto posted:that's what they call anybody that disagrees with them. they got real mad over a john oliver bit on internet harassment because they used short clips of anita and wu as examples, even though they had others that went into far more detail.      (if you were ever curious about /pol/ leaking)  The funny thing is that he barely mentions the "literally who" targets of gamergate and the largest chunk of it is about revenge porn and the lack of legal recourse for it. Not that revenge pornographers haven't tried to insinuate themselves into gamergate before... 
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Jun 27, 2015 06:32
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i look at free speech like i look at being a parent. my child may abstractly have the right to speech, but when it's time for dinner and my kid wants to run around and chase the cat that is verboten, you are going to sit down and eat so help me god this isn't theoretical i actually have kids irl and sometimes you have to be a tyrant because sometimes your subjects (children) legitimately do not know what is best for them
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Jun 27, 2015 06:35
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Let us English posted:This thread moves fast. That is actually a really good video, and I typically don't like things from him. And games do have a diversity problem and I do want more diverse games. Cardboard Box A posted:You have summoned me, I am here. I thought we had lost you to twitter forever. Welcome back to Not-Hellthread
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Jun 27, 2015 06:36
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s. A bingo card isn't an argument.
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Wulfolme posted:Of course it's absurd. The point is that The Law and even plain old precedent can be used to justify absurd things whether you like it or not. You have to make decisions with the absurd in mind. It doesn't matter if I approve or not. It is legal for them to do so. Yes, I believe that in private spaces individuals do not have a right to free speech. Legal precedent agrees with me.
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Jun 27, 2015 06:44
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Cardboard Box A posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuNIwYsz7PI and thats the poo poo that makes me not like GG. stupid shits doing poo poo like that. It was good segment, yeah i think wu is probaly full of poo poo, but its mostly about how revenge porn is hosed up and bad which most people agree with.
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Jun 27, 2015 06:45
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Dapper_Swindler posted:and thats the poo poo that makes me not like GG. stupid shits doing poo poo like that. It was good segment, yeah i think wu is probaly full of poo poo, but its mostly about how revenge porn is hosed up and bad which most people agree with. You have to be a huge rear end in a top hat to poo poo on Jon Oliver, who is pretty much doing the best to tackle issues no one else wants to talk about and make them funny and interesting.
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Jun 27, 2015 06:50
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Dapper Dan posted:You have to be a huge rear end in a top hat to poo poo on Jon Oliver, who is pretty much doing the best to tackle issues no one else wants to talk about and make them funny and interesting. yeah. I like oliver alot so i am biased as hell.
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Jun 27, 2015 06:51
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Dapper Dan posted:I thought we had lost you to twitter forever. Welcome back to Not-Hellthread That reminds me, I have to finish posting the rest of the anitathreats.jpg sometime, but for now this should be plenty. Bonesnap posted:Zoe for the most part hasn't had much to do or say in this since the months after the whole thing started and is best forgotten. She's the Archduke Franz Ferdinand to GG's World War 1. The reason this poo poo is going is because of opportunistic latchers-on like Anite Sarkeesian who came up with some glaringly fake threats and that became the narrative. So the media kept pushing that and gamers, in their 'tism, just couldn't let it go.                      
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Jun 27, 2015 06:54
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  hmm. thats interesting.
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Jun 27, 2015 06:55
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Dapper_Swindler posted:
Forgive me if I'm getting things wrong, but wasn't the initial, basic, idea behind gamergate that Zoe Quinn slept with a dude and deserved harassment for it? I'd say that that is wrong right out the gate.
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Jun 27, 2015 07:03
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https://youtu.be/IeOM3xpRQ7A?t=2592
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Jun 27, 2015 07:04
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Sinnlos posted:Forgive me if I'm getting things wrong, but wasn't the initial, basic, idea behind gamergate that Zoe Quinn slept with a dude and deserved harassment for it? I'd say that that is wrong right out the gate. More along the lines of the implications she slept her way into a job and positive press coverage.
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Jun 27, 2015 07:08
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Sinnlos posted:Forgive me if I'm getting things wrong, but wasn't the initial, basic, idea behind gamergate that Zoe Quinn slept with a dude and deserved harassment for it? I'd say that that is wrong right out the gate. No, the people who introduced harassment into it were wrong and trying to justify their lovely behavior. How it really began was, some stupid, misguided, arguably creepy fella decided to call his z-list ex out for lovely behavior and took it a few steps too far in the evidence department, though taking pains to mention he didn't think the people she slept with had an effect on her career. Said ex contacted or was contacted by Reddit admins who began deleting without notice all discussion on it. People took issue with having their poo poo deleted and began trying to find out what the connection was. Conspiracy lines were drawn, some false, a few semi-true, most completely blown out of proportion. Huge shitfit with the gaming press. Cue Streissand effect and nearly a year later here we are. turnways fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Jun 27, 2015 |
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Jun 27, 2015 07:11
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Shadoer posted:More along the lines of the implications she slept her way into a job and positive press coverage. Why does it appear she receive the lion's share of the initial abuse over Greyson then, who actually committed the impropriety? I thought that she and Greyson didn't have that sort of relationship with each other until after both articles had been published too?
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Jun 27, 2015 07:14
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Shadoer posted:More along the lines of the implications she slept her way into a job and positive press coverage. this was all debunked though, wasn't it? like it turned out that people were mostly just mad about a woman who enjoyed sex and had sex with more than one man?
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Jun 27, 2015 07:14
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Sinnlos posted:Forgive me if I'm getting things wrong, but wasn't the initial, basic, idea behind gamergate that Zoe Quinn slept with a dude and deserved harassment for it? I'd say that that is wrong right out the gate. It wasn't so much Zoe Quinn as gamers really loving hating games journalists and were really just looking for any excuse to poo poo on them. There was a lot of bad blood between them before Zoe Quinn ever came up. If it wasn't about Depression Quest, it would have easily been something else that kicked this off. Popular Thug Drink posted:this was all debunked though, wasn't it? like it turned out that people were mostly just mad about a woman who enjoyed sex and had sex with more than one man? Yeah, it was just one line and the game was free anyway. It didn't matter though, because people were looking for any excuse to go after the gaming press. There was and still is a lot of animosity between journalists and their audience, probably even moreso now than before. Dapper Dan fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Jun 27, 2015 |
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Jun 27, 2015 07:15
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Popular Thug Drink posted:this was all debunked though, wasn't it? like it turned out that people were mostly just mad about a woman who enjoyed sex and had sex with more than one man? They were friends and one could maybe argue he should've said "hey this game I'm mentioning in my big article mentioning games? Yeah I'm close with the creator" but it definitely was not "sex for a positive review" or even "sex for positive coverage," but what's funny is in the original, original post he points out several times her cheating on him was not related whatsoever to coverage of her game and idiots kind of drew and latched onto that conclusion themselves. I believe the point of his original post was to point out the hypocrisy of her saying if he cheated on her it was rape then going on and cheating on him several times, not as an avenue to point out corruption in the games journalist industry.
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Jun 27, 2015 07:17
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Dapper Dan posted:It wasn't so much Zoe Quinn as gamers really loving hating games journalists and were really just looking for any excuse to poo poo on them. There was a lot of bad blood between them before Zoe Quinn ever came up. If it wasn't about Depression Quest, it would have easily been something else that kicked this off. So doesn't this kind of mean the basic premise of gamergate is harassment of a female game developer for the crime of being a female game developer? I can't really find any reason that she would be harassed that isn't rooted in pretty blatant misogyny. I mean, gamergate prioritized a game developer over an actual games journalist.
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Jun 27, 2015 07:18
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Sinnlos posted:Forgive me if I'm getting things wrong, but wasn't the initial, basic, idea behind gamergate that Zoe Quinn slept with a dude and deserved harassment for it? I'd say that that is wrong right out the gate. Shadoer posted:More along the lines of the implications she slept her way into a job and positive press coverage.  Thanks for this link, it was interesting and informative. Also I am now reminded how disappointed I was that the ICY HOT STUNTAZ were not real 
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Jun 27, 2015 07:20
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Sinnlos posted:So doesn't this kind of mean the basic premise of gamergate is harassment of a female game developer for the crime of being a female game developer? I can't really find any reason that she would be harassed that isn't rooted in pretty blatant misogyny. I mean, gamergate prioritized a game developer over an actual games journalist.
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Jun 27, 2015 07:20
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Sinnlos posted:So doesn't this kind of mean the basic premise of gamergate is harassment of a female game developer for the crime of being a female game developer? I can't really find any reason that she would be harassed that isn't rooted in pretty blatant misogyny. I mean, gamergate prioritized a game developer over an actual games journalist. Initially yeah more or less, then it spun into "holy gently caress you games journalists are bad at the journalism thing" (which wasn't a shocking statement) which resulted in the games sites hunkering down and drawing lines in the sand and then it just kept on growing into a poo poo flinging contest that has lasted 10+ months.
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Jun 27, 2015 07:20
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Al Cowens posted:Depression Quest is not a game. Zoe Quinn is not a game developer. This still doesn't address why she was prioritized over a games journalist, which gamergate is obstinately about.
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Jun 27, 2015 07:21
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Sinnlos posted:So doesn't this kind of mean the basic premise of gamergate is harassment of a female game developer for the crime of being a female game developer? I can't really find any reason that she would be harassed that isn't rooted in pretty blatant misogyny. I mean, gamergate prioritized a game developer over an actual games journalist. The basic premise of the people who harassed her ranged from what you said, to believing she was a lovely person and deserving of outward of expression of hate, to a myriad of other reasons. Gamergate as a whole though had a lot of different premises, though I think the absolute main one is "she knew people who it appeared kept mentioning her poo poo-awful game, why is that?" and kind of blowing it up from there. The fact that later on games journalists did dumb poo poo is part coincidence, part inevitability. Edit: I think she fell into the center of it because she was the subject of the initial article, and later on people dug up poo poo that was kind of lovely and just latched onto that. Spotlight syndrome, primarily, with misogyny only coming from the misogynists who saw an opportunity. turnways fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Jun 27, 2015 |
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Jun 27, 2015 07:22
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Al Cowens posted:Depression Quest is not a game. Zoe Quinn (aka Chelsea van Valkenburg) is not a game developer. She's an assassin and you are on her hitlist, you've figured it out.
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Jun 27, 2015 07:22
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Bitchface loving cocksucker fuckface. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 27, 2015 07:23
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Sinnlos posted:This still doesn't address why she was prioritized over a games journalist, which gamergate is obstinately about. The only rationale I can think of is that she was the common factor between Grayson, some other writer, and that Indiecade guy. It's silly regardless.
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Jun 27, 2015 07:23
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turnways posted:They were friends and one could maybe argue he should've said "hey this game I'm mentioning in my big article mentioning games? Yeah I'm close with the creator" but it definitely was not "sex for a positive review" or even "sex for positive coverage," but what's funny is in the original, original post he points out several times her cheating on him was not related whatsoever to coverage of her game and idiots kind of drew and latched onto that conclusion themselves. this is all a deeply charged accusation though given how weird the kinds of people who care deeply about video games are re: vaginas and sex w/ vaginas like it doesn't play well at all with casuals
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Jun 27, 2015 07:23
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Al Cowens posted:Depression Quest is not a game. Zoe Quinn (aka Chelsea van Valkenburg) is not a game developer. Actually it is, and she is.
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Jun 27, 2015 07:23
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Al Cowens posted:Depression Quest is not a game. Zoe Quinn (aka Chelsea van Valkenburg) is not a game developer. just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't real it's like saying john cage isn't a musician, you're limiting yourself by limiting who is allowed to be in your hobby
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Jun 27, 2015 07:24
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Popular Thug Drink posted:just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't real
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Jun 27, 2015 07:26
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Al Cowens posted:It's not a game, and it's bad at whatever other thing it's trying to be. it is a game. you may not think it is good, or even a game, but nevertheless, it is a game
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Jun 27, 2015 07:28
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Popular Thug Drink posted:this is all a deeply charged accusation though given how weird the kinds of people who care deeply about video games are re: vaginas and sex w/ vaginas Which accusation do you mean? If you're talking about the cheating thing I agree with you; I think folks went with the journalism angle because they couldn't handle the relationship stuff. What's funny is them doing that actually loops back around to misogyny anyway; they couldn't handle hearing about a potential male abuse victim (I don't think he's an abuse victim because of the cheating, but because there was a lot of other stuff like severe psychology manipulation and gaslighting accusations) so they went in a completely different direction.
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Jun 27, 2015 07:28
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Are we going to go off on a "what is a game" tangent?
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Jun 27, 2015 07:28
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Popular Thug Drink posted:it is a game (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 27, 2015 07:28
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Sinnlos posted:So doesn't this kind of mean the basic premise of gamergate is harassment of a female game developer for the crime of being a female game developer? I can't really find any reason that she would be harassed that isn't rooted in pretty blatant misogyny. I mean, gamergate prioritized a game developer over an actual games journalist. Obviously, nothing excuses harassment, no matter what someone did. And there were plenty of assholes and trolls and pieces of poo poo who gleefully engaged in it. If I remember correctly, the gears shifted rather quickly away from Quinn and to game journalists and to indie cliques. Especially Nathan Grayson/Kotaku. And once the 'gamers are dead' articles came out, that's when the focus shifted completely away from her. Which is what I feel the whole thing was about in the first place, an excuse to put that animosity out in the open. If the whole ZQ thing was never posted on the internet, I believe this still would have happened. But the catalyst would have been different. Also, it has been nearly a year on and the whole thing has morphed into something completely different now, Zoe Quinn seems like the distant past. So I could be mis-remembering some stuff. Unfunny Poster posted:Are we going to go off on a "what is a game" tangent? Please God, no. Lets just say DQ is a crappy game and leave it at that.
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Jun 27, 2015 07:28
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Thank you gamergate for making me hate the term "gamer" more than I already did.
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Jun 27, 2015 07:29
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Al Cowens posted:The same way SedanChair is black. confetti.css it's never a convincing thing for you to pull out bad rumors to win an argument, especially when they have nothing to do with the topic at hand, and double especially when they involve a person who is not even posting itt or relevant to the conversation whether or not you like or disapprove of zoe quinn or whatever, has no bearing on depression quest being an actual video game
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Jun 27, 2015 07:30
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