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Totalizator posted:I'm pretty sure I'm safe, right wing movements are getting quite the foothold in Europe because the left wing decided the most pertinent thing to direct their intellectual criticism at are sexist video games and boobs on some guy's shirt rather then addressing income inequality or any sort of real economic concerns. And when the chips are down, guess who you'll ally yourself with? You'll be right there at the edge of the Roma camp with a torch in your hand.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:03
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Literally The Worst posted:Ah yes, curse a large vague political group's inability to focus on more than one thing at a time. The right stopped trying to censor the media because it got them nowhere and it made them look like authoritarian idiots. Funny that.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:04
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Totalizator posted:The right stopped trying to censor the media because it got them nowhere and it made them look like authoritarian idiots. Funny that. No, they've succeeded. How else would you be here, with a mind entirely written by the right?
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Jun 27, 2015 17:05
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Right wing extremism growing in Europe because of the demand for diversity in video games. I hope VICE or Al Jazeera gets the scoop on this.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:05
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SedanChair posted:No, they've succeeded. How else would you be here, with a mind entirely written by the right? I believe all people are equal and all discrimination is wrong, and that the only moral way to judge a person is by their actions, and not the color of their skin or how they dress or what gender they are. Truly, Adolf would be proud.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:08
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Totalizator posted:I believe all people are equal and all discrimination is wrong, and that the only moral way to judge a person is by their actions, and not the color of their skin or how they dress or what gender they are. Truly, Adolf would be proud. As I said, your mind has been written entirely by the right. You have taken Martin Luther King Jr's message of equality and twisted it into expectations that you impose on minority groups. If they do not perform to your expectations, you complain about them. That is absolutely standard right wing idiot behavior.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:13
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The Right is Right then I guess, ever consider that?
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Jun 27, 2015 17:18
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SedanChair posted:As I said, your mind has been written entirely by the right. You have taken Martin Luther King Jr's message of equality and twisted it into expectations that you impose on minority groups. If they do not perform to your expectations, you complain about them. That is absolutely standard right wing idiot behavior. Expectations such as "maybe marrying your kids off at 10 year old is wrong and is a barrier for your people to be accepted into common society". Are you one of these people who say widespread FGM in places like Egypt is ok because it's their culture? Equality doesn't mean equivalence. Not every culture goes about every single thing in an equally good way. Western culture has plenty of things to fix but that doesn't mean we should leave women and minorities in other cultures to rot until we solve the pertinent issue of whether Tifa's boobs need to be smaller in the Final Fantasy 7 remake.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:19
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Totalizator posted:Expectations such as "maybe marrying your kids off at 10 year old is wrong and is a barrier for your people to be accepted into common society". Are you one of these people who say widespread FGM in places like Egypt is ok because it's their culture? Equality doesn't mean equivalence. Not every culture goes about every single thing in an equally good way. Western culture has plenty of things to fix but that doesn't mean we should leave women and minorities in other cultures to rot before we solve the pertinent issue of whether Tifa's boobs need to be smaller in the Final Fantasy 7 remake. Feminism handles these critiques much more capably than your pith helmet-wearin' rear end.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:20
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Totalizator posted:Expectations such as "maybe marrying your kids off at 10 year old is wrong and is a barrier for your people to be accepted into common society". Are you one of these people who say widespread FGM in places like Egypt is ok because it's their culture? Equality doesn't mean equivalence. Not every culture goes about every single thing in an equally good way. Western culture has plenty of things to fix but that doesn't mean we should leave women and minorities in other cultures to rot before we solve the pertinent issue of whether Tifa's boobs need to be smaller in the Final Fantasy 7 remake. Hey guys what's going on in.... .....  Oh look, its another guy who thinks social issues are linear, and that we have to ignore all social issues until the major ones are taken care of. Bravo.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:22
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CommieGIR posted:Hey guys what's going on in.... I'm saying censoring content you dislike is self evidently evil and shouldn't be an issue at all. There is a line between critique and censorship that certain elements on the left have crossed and it will end poorly for them and not solve anything they think it will.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:23
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What is an acceptable way to voice your displeasure with elements of media as your hopes that those elements will be reconsidered in the future
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Jun 27, 2015 17:26
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Literally The Worst posted:What is an acceptable way to voice your displeasure with elements of media as your hopes that those elements will be reconsidered in the future Well if you're Bobcat Goldthwaits you'd make a movie to voice your opinions through other characters.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:27
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Totalizator posted:I'm saying censoring content you dislike is self evidently evil and shouldn't be an issue at all. There is a line between critique and censorship that certain elements on the left have crossed and it will end poorly for them and not solve anything they think it will. Censorship by the state is bad. "Censorship" consisting of correct-thinking people getting together and deciding that certain messages are inappropriate and should be suppressed, on the other hand, is wonderful.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:28
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SedanChair posted:Censorship by the state is bad. "Censorship" consisting of correct-thinking people getting together and deciding that certain messages are inappropriate and should be suppressed, on the other hand, is wonderful. seriously this really bad gimmick account is allowed to post in the 'serious' debate and discussion forum when it wouldn't have passed muster in lf also lol you're white
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Jun 27, 2015 17:31
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Literally The Worst posted:What is an acceptable way to voice your displeasure with elements of media as your hopes that those elements will be reconsidered in the future This is a good question. I will go with: avoid acting like content you find problematic is evil, people who like it are evil, people who created it are evil. Be civil, explain your stance, don't assume yelling "it's sexist" at a thing makes everyone see it's self-evidently sexist. Promote positive counterexamples of compelling progressive work. Vote with your wallet. Debate rather then preach. Respect people with different opinions and treat them as human beings. Accept some people want to have their entertainment done a certain way and don't force change if you cannot convince them with arguments. Always remember diversity is not about destroying things, nor is it tokenism or idealized, sanitized portrayals. Remember that human beings of all walks of life are flawed and this will be reflected in the media always, regardless of how it makes you feel.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:34
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like two people actually posting at eachother, one implying that all ideas somehow need equal representation (not possible) and another insisting that "correct thinking" people should be picking and choosing what gets heard and it continues for more than like 2 posts without anyone saying how asinine and stupid both are
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Jun 27, 2015 17:35
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So a tone argument
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Jun 27, 2015 17:35
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Literally The Worst posted:So a tone argument You can also be rude, dismissive, manipulative and exclusive. And then get all upset and offended when something like gamergate happens.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:37
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Totalizator posted:You can also be rude, dismissive, manipulative and exclusive. And then get all upset and offended when something like gamergate happens. So please be nice about the things you find disgusting don't hurt our feelings
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Jun 27, 2015 17:38
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Dapper Dan posted:Games should be judged on its own merits, definitely. I mean, again, I'd love to play a feminist game. If it is good, obviously. Also, that was one of the major criticisms with Polygon. They started giving games lower scores because they felt they were sexist or didn't align with their views. Normally, who cares but when you take Metacritic into account, a lower score could mean less money for the development staff. This happened with Fallout: New Vegas. Obsidian developed it and their bonus was contingent upon a Metacritc score of 90.They got an 89 because they had to rush it out and it had some bugs at launch. They didn't get their bonus. Now contrast this with a good game with no bugs, but because the reviewer didn't agree or didn't like the content, they gave it a lower score. Which means less money for the development staff simply because someone disagreed with your ideas. This is a huge problem and one of the reasons scores need to be done away with altogether. Obviously, Metacritic score should not be tied to bonuses, but that's the unfortunate reality. When money is on the line and it could mean another game of that quality or not, people tend to get defensive. Well then this problem is Obsidian's fault not Polygon's. A review is an opinion and it is a reviewer's prerogative to generate their score however they see fit. Obsidian is ridiculous if they feel that they should give money to their development staff based on something as fickle as a Metacritic score and not on profit.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:40
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Literally The Worst posted:So please be nice about the things you find disgusting don't hurt our feelings You asked me what I consider a good standard for criticism. You have full right to be a dismissive rude rear end in a top hat and then I have the full right to laugh at you when you not only lose the argument but cultivate a community of people who hate you and your message.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:41
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Knight Boat posted:Well then this problem is Obsidian's fault not Polygon's. A review is an opinion and it is a reviewer's prerogative to generate their score however they see fit. Obsidian is ridiculous if they feel that they should give money to their development staff based on something as fickle as a Metacritic score and not on profit.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:43
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Because everyone knows the guys who have issues with feminism were real nuanced and polite with their grievances
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Jun 27, 2015 17:43
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Fabricated posted:It didn't quite work like that; the bonus was from Bethesda to Obsidian. This Metacritic agreement is actually pretty standard in the games industry and is one of the kinda hosed up things about it. Well, poo poo. Shouldn't that be changed instead of requiring reviewers to endorse a game they have problems with?
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Jun 27, 2015 17:46
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Literally The Worst posted:Because everyone knows the guys who have issues with feminism were real nuanced and polite with their grievances And the repercussions of that carry to this day when the media won't give them the time of day and automatically dismiss any of their claims as entitled babies regardless of how much of a point they have. This is the consequence of acting like this and it baffles me why you feel lowering yourself to this level won't result in anything else but this happening to you as well. People are already noticing how toxic some of the left wing is becoming and a lecture about "tone policing" as a reaction won't work the way you think it will.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:46
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Fabricated posted:like two people actually posting at eachother, one implying that all ideas somehow need equal representation (not possible) and another insisting that "correct thinking" people should be picking and choosing what gets heard and it continues for more than like 2 posts without anyone saying how asinine and stupid both are Why would you put quotes around "correct thinking"? Feminist and antiracist thought is correct, and thought in opposition to it is incorrect. If you disagree, good people should conspire to suppress you and remove your viewpoint from the public discourse.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:47
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I'm glad feminism is dead and considered a big joke by society it's just too bad they're taking down the rest of the left with them.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:48
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Broniki posted:I'm glad feminism is dead and considered a big joke by society it's just too bad they're taking down the rest of the left with them. A false "left" which has been infiltrated by misogynists and stripped of feminism deserves to fail.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:50
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SedanChair posted:Censorship by the state is bad. "Censorship" consisting of correct-thinking people getting together and deciding that certain messages are inappropriate and should be suppressed, on the other hand, is wonderful. Like, I agree with the point that people should be allowed to criticise what they want without being accused of trying to ruin things or censorship and private individuals actually attempting to censor things is not the same thing as the state doing so, but could you have chosen a more moralising, self-righteous way of expressing it.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:52
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Knight Boat posted:Well, poo poo. Shouldn't that be changed instead of requiring reviewers to endorse a game they have problems with? as for gamergate and this; yeah the gamergate kids should be more mad about this than a bunch of complete nobodies who will never ever change the industry
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Jun 27, 2015 17:54
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XMNN posted:Yeah, it was great when people got together and decided that sex, drugs and miscegenation were inappropriate in movies wasn't it. But I said correct thinking. Those people's thought was incorrect, as you know.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:54
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Why do whiny pissbabies get so angry about women?
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Jun 27, 2015 17:56
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SedanChair posted:But I said correct thinking. Those people's thought was incorrect, as you know. e: And my point was your description came across as as self-righteous and moralising as they did, even though I happen to agree with you and not with them. XMNN fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Jun 27, 2015 |
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Jun 27, 2015 17:57
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What we really need is Colonization III with slavery.Jack Gladney posted:Why do whiny pissbabies get so angry about women?
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Jun 27, 2015 17:58
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XMNN posted:Yeah, it was great when people got together and decided that sex, drugs and miscegenation were inappropriate in movies wasn't it. Actually, I'd really like to see a return of anti-miscegenation rules in movies so we could maybe finally get rid of that "proud white warrior conquering foreign girl" trope.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:59
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Totalizator posted:As an European I can weigh in on the Roma debate. Currently in Europe there is no state-sanctioned oppression against the Roma and harassing them would be persecuted as a hate crime. Unfortunately the Roma communities do not wish to engage or integrate with society at large despite efforts being made on the state level to do so, and their culture is permissive of things most Europeans think is bad such as child marriage and thieving. People who speak out about this are considered racists by the left because a white person raising a concern about a non-white culture is considered inherently racist by the modern left. This approach has convinced a lot of people that the left is irrational and retarded, because pretending these problems don't exist has not made them go away, and has not made the Roma or their status improve in any way. You'd need to pour vast amounts of funding for education, subsidies and so on to even start making a difference but the problem is Europeans don't want to spend that money and the Roma community isn't reaching out for this type of help as well. I have no good solution to this problem but clearly trying to condition people on the state level on this has failed miserably thus far, and bred even more resentment towards the Roma from people I know. As an actual Roma I too can weigh in on the debate: You know very little. In the UK several members of my family have had planning permission to build houses outright denied to them. This is a huge problem for the Roma community on multiple levels in many different countries, as such permission is denied to them at a much higher proportion than to anyone else. More than 90% of all planning requests applied for by the Roma are flat out denied (as opposed to the general population where over 80% are granted). There is actual, bona-fide state-level discrimination. As a child my family was also targeted for being Roma and the actual police response was "Maybe you should move". Hate crime didn't even begin to enter their minds.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:59
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XMNN posted:I assume they thought they were thinking correctly. Who cares what they thought? They were wrong. Are you really so unsure of yourself and your ideals that you murmur to yourself "I better not hit this 'disliking racism and misogyny' thing too hard, history could prove that the one who was wrong was me"? How faddish. e: quote:e: And my point was your description came across as as self-righteous and moralising as they did, even though I happen to agree with you and not with them. Yes my tone is deliberate, it helps to identify people who can't distinguish tone from content. woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Jun 27, 2015 |
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Jun 27, 2015 18:01
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Totalizator posted:Expectations such as "maybe marrying your kids off at 10 year old is wrong and is a barrier for your people to be accepted into common society". Are you one of these people who say widespread FGM in places like Egypt is ok because it's their culture? Equality doesn't mean equivalence. Not every culture goes about every single thing in an equally good way. Western culture has plenty of things to fix but that doesn't mean we should leave women and minorities in other cultures to rot until we solve the pertinent issue of whether Tifa's boobs need to be smaller in the Final Fantasy 7 remake. so what is the threshold of world problems that must be solved before you think it is acceptable to criticize boobs in games?
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Jun 27, 2015 18:02
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Oh yes, the Left is dying, they're only talking about social justice issues in these social justice discussions, I know because I frequent only these social justice discussions.Totalizator posted:This sounds unscientific. And holy lol, did you seriously say "vote with your wallet" while denouncing the corruption of the Left? You do realise why the Left is so corrupt, right? It's capitalism and consumerism.
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Jun 27, 2015 18:02
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