|
Totalizator posted:Apple pulling historical games to score points from the whole debate is the exact thing people are complaining about. There is no justification for taking down historical games because they contain a symbol. They backed out from that fortunately but this was the banning I was referring to. It's not like people who disagreed with it had a choice other then trashing their expensive phone, you can't just download a different app store, you're locked in to whatever political decision Apple makes or lose money. It showcased a real problem. But the Apple pulling games debacle has nothing to do with internet social justice or gamergate or any of that. It had to do with the fact that other major US retailers (Walmart, Ebay, etc.) began pulling confederate products from their stores in response to the Charleston shooting, and Apple wanted to follow suit. Being Tim Cook Apple, they did so in the most ham-fisted and poorly thought out way possible, but it had nothing to do with people from twitter using angry hashtags and Apple bending to their will
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 01:02 |
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:gaming journalism has always been payola. always. it's odd to me and many others that ethical reform of games journalism was triggered at the same time as gaming was becoming more diverse and inclusionary of non-white male opinions, and that the reactionary opposition to gaming media as advertising is also framed in false apocalyptic terms like " the only original content they were allowed to put in was complaining how triggered they were by a character showing her midriff" The idea that gaming has only in the past few years started to include "non-white male opinions" isn't even remotely true unless you consider Japanese people white. Scrub-Niggurath posted:But the Apple pulling games debacle has nothing to do with internet social justice or gamergate or any of that. It had to do with the fact that other major US retailers (Walmart, Ebay, etc.) began pulling confederate products from their stores in response to the Charleston shooting, and Apple wanted to follow suit. Being Tim Cook Apple, they did so in the most ham-fisted and poorly thought out way possible, but it had nothing to do with people from twitter using angry hashtags and Apple bending to their will Right, and all those other retailers pulling Confederate flag products had nothing to do with internet social justice.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:42
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:They pulled games. Gamergate hates it when someone censors games for whatever reason. Removing something from your store that you previously sold based on politics is a form of censorship. so apple's control of their own service is also an example of advertising in gaming media because a video game is temporarily not available for purchase if the only gamestop in town shuts down because of a rat problem, is that also an example of something gamergaters are deeply concerned about? INH5 posted:Right, and all those other retailers pulling Confederate flag products had nothing to do with internet social justice. it does not. the majority of living people in the world right now do not base their political opinions on what people on the internet say. they base it on what people in real life say.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:44
|
|
|
NightVis posted:Actually, yes, doubts allayed. I 'run' with a hard-left crowd, I'm involved in game development, and I've seen nothing of what you've seen. GG doesn't get talked about much because it's pretty straightfoward: rear end in a top hat misogynistic dipwads gently caress poo poo up, as always. Journalists mostly suck. The crazed anti-feminists see a conspiracy under every bush. quote:Most of all though, I'm not really seeing any balanced accounts of what's going on here in any press whatsoever (outside of say, Popehat who's a libertarian so you can imagine I have a problem with agreeing with him). Actual discussion about the state of indie gaming (a subject I'm a huge sperg about because I'm really into it) has become an absolute minefield and the well has been poisoned. There's bad faith on every side of this, which is really like a microcosm of a lot of ways the left (particularly online) has been operating in the last couple years. I don't even get how you can sperg out about indie gaming. it's just making games. People all over the world are doing it. There isn't a coherent 'state' of indie gaming. The 'left' hasn't been operating in any way, because the 'left' isn't monolithic. Maybe pay less attention to twitter? I dunno. Totalizator posted:Apple pulling historical games to score points from the whole debate is the exact thing people are complaining about. There is no justification for taking down historical games because they contain a symbol. They backed out from that fortunately but this was the banning I was referring to. It's not banning it, though. You can still buy, sell, and carry around confederate flags. quote:I can point out flaws in a culture and still treat members of it like everyone else. Every people's culture has it's flaws including my own. This has nothing to do with each other. Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away. Your analysis of Roma culture is victim-blaming and lovely. They don't want to engage with Europena culture because for the past thousand years, and continuing to this day, Europeans have hosed them over, stolen children from them, burned down their camps, enslaved them, etc. You created the loving situation, and whining about it is as stupid as white Americans whining about black people having high rates of crime. It's going to take a look time for the Roma to trust anyone in Europe, and even longer as long as France deports them illegally and Italy burns their poo poo down and doesn't investigate crimes against them. Ignoring the cause of problems makes sure they will remain forever. INH5 posted:The idea that gaming has only in the past few years started to include "non-white male opinions" isn't even remotely true unless you consider Japanese people white. Gee I wonder why confederate flags are under scrutiny now. Maybe it's because a white supremacist who loved flying them murdered a bunch of people. Nope, must be those internet social justice warriors. For fucks sake, you ascribe them superpowers. Obdicut fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jun 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:44
|
|
|
it's seriously weird that we can pretty much include every bad thing that happens re: video games and blame it on SJWs, and every good thing that happens re: video games can be attributed to gamergaters fighting the good fight. that seems like a massive scoping error
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:47
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:Your analysis of Roma culture is victim-blaming and lovely. They don't want to engage with Europena culture because for the past thousand years, and continuing to this day, Europeans have hosed them over, stolen children from them, burned down their camps, enslaved them, etc. You created the loving situation, and whining about it is as stupid as white Americans whining about black people having high rates of crime. It's going to take a look time for the Roma to trust anyone in Europe, and even longer as long as France deports them illegally and Italy burns their poo poo down and doesn't investigate crimes against them. So you're saying we should treat the Roma community like a puppy with PTSD, it may not trust us, bite our hand, and aggressively piss on our carpet but other people were really loving nasty to it so it's understandable. I choose to treat them as people instead. This aggressive infantilization and treating minority groups like they're mentally impaired victims with no agency is a huge failing of identity politics.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:51
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:They pulled games. Gamergate hates it when someone censors games for whatever reason. Removing something from your store that you previously sold based on politics is a form of censorship. No, it's not. Private entities are under absolutely no obligation at all to stock or sell something that they don't want to. Apple don't sell the Anarchists' Cookbook or The Poor Man's James Bond, is that also censorship? How about cigarettes or alcohol?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:51
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:For fucks sake, you ascribe them superpowers. Which one of them gets the super power to make a good game?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:52
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:sepp blatter controls billions of dollars in real resources all around the globe. zoe quinn is an obscure game developer who was accused of being a skank. i would not hold the latter to the same level of scrutiny as the former If people thought Zoe Quinn was personally the one deleting countless posts and suppressing the thing that reply might make sense. But the misguided "cover up" in this case was done by the industry as a whole, which has a reputation almost as dirty as FIFA. To the ignorant masses, this was just sensational evidence of the corruption that everyone knew was happening but nobody could prove. A smoking gun the press were trying to hide, that the ultimately proved to be a wet fart.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:53
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:So you're saying we should treat the Roma community like a puppy with PTSD, it may not trust us, bite our hand, and aggressively piss on our carpet but other people were really loving nasty to it so it's understandable. I choose to treat them as people instead. No, treat them as a group of people you've systematically abused for a thousand years. That's kind of what I said, I don't know where you get this puppy idea from. quote:This aggressive infantilization and treating minority groups like they're mentally impaired victims with no agency is a huge failing of identity politics. They're not mentally impaired at all. They don't trust Europeans or European governments for good reasons: you hosed them over, and continue to gently caress them over, continually. Same reason why black Americans don't trust the justice system in the US. They're right not to. Unfunny Poster posted:Which one of them gets the super power to make a good game? What do internet social justice warriors have to do with making games?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:55
|
|
|
Ddraig posted:No, it's not. Private entities are under absolutely no obligation at all to stock or sell something that they don't want to. Censorship of content by a private company is also censorship. Of course it is at the same time free speech - they should not be forced to INCLUDE things in their app store that they don't want to carry. The criticism was entirely "they banned historical games, which is a stupid and hamfisted move" once the games were reinstated GG declared a victory and returned to having a slapfight over that batman joke or whatever. Nobody complained any racist confederate flag games, if there were even any, remained banned.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:55
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:So you're saying we should treat the Roma community like a puppy with PTSD, it may not trust us, bite our hand, and aggressively piss on our carpet but other people were really loving nasty to it so it's understandable. I choose to treat them as people instead. This aggressive infantilization and treating minority groups like they're mentally impaired victims with no agency is a huge failing of identity politics. What do the Roma have to do with Gamergate? Popular Thug Drink posted:it's seriously weird that we can pretty much include every bad thing that happens re: video games and blame it on SJWs, and every good thing that happens re: video games can be attributed to gamergaters fighting the good fight. that seems like a massive scoping error I am still not understanding this insistence on game reviews trying to be some kind of "objective" measure where reviewers aren't allowed to talk about what made them uncomfortable including the lack of people of color throughout a game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:55
|
|
|
Pleasant Friend posted:If people thought Zoe Quinn was personally the one deleting countless posts and suppressing the thing that reply might make sense. But the misguided "cover up" in this case was done by the industry as a whole, which has a reputation almost as dirty as FIFA. i think the 'cover up' was done by reddit and other sites who generally do not tolerate posting people's personal information for revenge
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:57
|
|
|
blackguy32 posted:What do the Roma have to do with Gamergate? I always loved Ebert's reviews where he went into great detail about the lightning and the use of colour and not what the film was actually about or how it made him feel. Those really speak to me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:57
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:Censorship of content by a private company is also censorship. Of course it is at the same time free speech - they should not be forced to INCLUDE things in their app store that they don't want to carry. The criticism was entirely "they banned historical games, which is a stupid and hamfisted move" once the games were reinstated GG declared a victory and returned to having a slapfight over that batman joke or whatever. Nobody complained any racist confederate flag games, if there were even any, remained banned. The confederate flag is not banned, though. A tiny segment of the representation of the confederate flag is not allowed in certain marketplaces. Oh, the humanity. blackguy32 posted:What do the Roma have to do with Gamergate? I brought up the Roma as an example of how racism is still alive and well in Europe today. He announced that harassing the Roma would be prosecuted as a hate crime, at which point we all had a good laugh.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:58
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:Censorship of content by a private company is also censorship. Of course it is at the same time free speech - they should not be forced to INCLUDE things in their app store that they don't want to carry. The criticism was entirely "they banned historical games, which is a stupid and hamfisted move" once the games were reinstated GG declared a victory and returned to having a slapfight over that batman joke or whatever. Nobody complained any racist confederate flag games, if there were even any, remained banned. a private company is not under any obligation to sell a product they don't want to sell to support abstract rights to free speech. that is not how free speech works at all. i'm concerned that you do not have the same definition of free speech that i or many other people share
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:58
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:a private company is not under any obligation to sell a product they don't want to sell to support abstract rights to free speech. that is not how free speech works at all. i'm concerned that you do not have the same definition of free speech that i or many other people share To be fair, that's actually what he was saying.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:59
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:What do internet social justice warriors have to do with making games? Nothing. I just asked which one of these people with supposed superpowers would get the power to make a good game since there's so many "not a game" games made by supposed SJWs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 20:59
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:They're not mentally impaired at all. They don't trust Europeans or European governments for good reasons: you hosed them over, and continue to gently caress them over, continually. Same reason why black Americans don't trust the justice system in the US. They're right not to. Yes and as a result of Europe making GBS threads on them for thousands of years they have developed a culture that is not compatible with how modern western civilization operates. This is not their fault nor do I think it's on them to change it to comply with modern capitalism. I also don't think all of them or even most take part in the worst aspects of that culture. That said if you wish for Romani people to be well and prosper, I don't think yelling at everyone who sees a problem with 10 year olds getting married in some of these communities and calling them racist is the right way to go about it. That's also the gist of my original post about this topic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:00
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:Yes and as a result of Europe making GBS threads on them for thousands of years they have developed a culture that is not compatible with how modern western civilization operates. i'm not sure this is a true statement
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:02
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:Censorship of content by a private company is also censorship. Of course it is at the same time free speech - they should not be forced to INCLUDE things in their app store that they don't want to carry. The criticism was entirely "they banned historical games, which is a stupid and hamfisted move" once the games were reinstated GG declared a victory and returned to having a slapfight over that batman joke or whatever. Nobody complained any racist confederate flag games, if there were even any, remained banned. It is a completely empty criticism for the most part since many times companies self censor in order to achieve more sales. Manhunt 2 wouldn't have likely come out at all if they didn't censor it for a mature rating. Movies choose to go for a PG-13 rating in order to receive more sales. The end-game seems to be Gamergate getting pissy for companies choosing to self-censor their games in order to achieve more sales.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:02
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:Gee I wonder why confederate flags are under scrutiny now. And I guess everyone just instantly knew that this guy liked the confederate flag through telepathy. It's not as if a bunch of people immediately went through this guy's Facebook pictures for anything they could use to score points against their political opponents. This is just a coincidence, honest:  I hate the stupid flag too, but seriously, give yourself some credit. blackguy32 posted:The end-game seems to be Gamergate getting pissy for companies choosing to self-censor their games in order to achieve more sales. Because it's not like Gamergate's opponents ever get pissy over companies choosing to include or not include certain content in their games.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:02
|
|
|
INH5 posted:And I guess everyone just instantly knew that this guy liked the confederate flag through telepathy. It's not as if a bunch of people immediately went through this guy's Facebook pictures for anything they could use to score points against their political opponents. This is just a coincidence, honest: not everyone is motivated by political spite. there is a very valid reason to search into the background of a man who just murdered multiple people, and it's not to find political mud to throw INH5 posted:Because it's not like Gamergate's opponents ever get pissy over companies choosing to include or not include certain content in their games. what does it matter what anti-gamergaters do? the question wasn't what they do. this is just an attempt to deflect the conversation away from an uncomfortable topic boner confessor fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jun 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:03
|
|
|
blackguy32 posted:It is a completely empty criticism for the most part since many times companies self censor in order to achieve more sales. Manhunt 2 wouldn't have likely come out at all if they didn't censor it for a mature rating. Movies choose to go for a PG-13 rating in order to receive more sales. I actually really hate what PG-13 did to movies and the whole self-censorship deal. So yeah It's legal and all but I think it's bad and being vocally opposed to it is good.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:05
|
|
|
Pretty sure at least 30% of "gamergate" would get angry and ask for censoring a scene in a video game where a gay orgy happens. There'd possibly even be "think of the children" arguments.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:06
|
|
|
I'm going to preface this by saying I don't particularly care one way or another about either side of gamergate beyond enjoying the howling stupidity, ignorance, and exaggeration coming from both sides. That said I find it much more enjoyable to point out how stupid the self-proclaimed Correctthinkers and moral crusaders are acting than doing the same for a group is that is already almost universally seen as stupid and gross. Low-hanging fruit and all ya know? One of the few things I actually did care about, though, is the reaction to Eron Gjoni's callout of Quinn's abusive and manipulative behavior. (Here I should say I don't actually like or support any of Gjoni's subsequent and vindictive actions towards Quinn or anything else in that category. He and his supporters went way over the line.) A group of people who are otherwise very quick to listen and believe, to criticize those who are condescending and skeptical of those who come forward talking about their bad experiences and abuse, and especially who are otherwise critical of gender roles, patriarchy, societal pressures, blah blah blah, immediately turned around and threw every last classical patriarchal defense in the book against Gjoni, with a helping of twisting around some feminist ideas in the defense of Quinn (slut-shaming, etc). This is representative of the typical defense of Quinn that I saw from AGG people about a year ago when all of this was initially coming out: Sinnlos posted:In 2014, her caremad ex-boyfriend made a blog post about how much he hated her because she'd rather sleep with people that aren't him ... So yeah, it's about hating women b/c they don't want to gently caress you. If Eron and Zoe had instead been Erin and Zack, then I am absolutely certain that "Zack Quinn" would have received a planet-sized backlash for being abusive and manipulative of a poor woman while in the process of cheating repeatedly on her and lying about it while convincing her that she shouldn't sleep with anyone else even while they're separated/split up as well as insisting that having sex on false pretenses is Rape. Instead Zoe had the ranks close in around her and was held up as a martyr while Eron Gjoni consistently had his character insulted and shamed for not being Man Enough to deal with repeated emotional manipulation and gaslighting. If we take Quinn's own definitions at her word, then Quinn is a straight up abuser and rapist. If we instead evaluate Quinn's actions by a reasonable standard then she's still a lovely person who did some really really lovely things and the community that both Gjoni and Quinn were involved in deserved to know about what sort of person Gjoni claimed Quinn is. Also lol at a bunch of self-proclaimed leftists repeatedly mocking a black person for being distrustful of white feminists and twisting his words to make him sound insane and paranoid when it's common knowledge that white Western feminism has had long-standing and well-documented issues with dealing with minorities and black people in particular.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:07
|
|
|
Most of gamergate cheered for gay marriage yesterday. They're not socially conservative.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:07
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:i think the 'cover up' was done by reddit and other sites who generally do not tolerate posting people's personal information for revenge Basically most of the internet decided to not allow discussion of the topic, with nobody able to talk about it properly the misinformation and gossip surrounding it grew and grew, and what the public saw was just a run of the mill sex scandal with a corrupt press slant being repressed. This was also incredible because tabloid sites like Gawker like to report on sex scandals like this all the time, they've even being sued by Hulk Hogan right now for releasing his sex tape, so the perception of added hypocrisy and corruption was magnified by the silence. Maybe it's hindsight that lets me say they went about it all wrong, because what they did resulted in a situation much worse than what is should've been, but it's worth pointing out what they did wrong so it doesn't happen in the future.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:08
|
|
|
Unfunny Poster posted:Nothing. I just asked which one of these people with supposed superpowers would get the power to make a good game since there's so many "not a game" games made by supposed SJWs. Sorry, no clue what you're talking about. Totalizator posted:Yes and as a result of Europe making GBS threads on them for thousands of years they have developed a culture that is not compatible with how modern western civilization operates. This is not their fault nor do I think it's on them to change it to comply with modern capitalism. I also don't think all of them or even most take part in the worst aspects of that culture. That said if you wish for Romani people to be well and prosper, I don't think yelling at everyone who sees a problem with 10 year olds getting married in some of these communities and calling them racist is the right way to go about it. That's also the gist of my original post about this topic. Their culture is not 'not compatible' with modern western civilization, that's a really lovely way of putting it. They have been systematically cut off from education, social services, and integration, and so they're not integrated. I haven't yelled at anyone or called them racist. If that was your original gist, you are loving horrible at expressing yourself. Your original statement was that the governments of Europe are doing so much to help the Roma and that harassing them would be prosecuted--you, happily, admitted the latter is not actually true. The former is not also true--some is being done to help, a lot is still being done to gently caress them over, and given the long, long history of fuckery, it's going to take a long time to penetrate their culture. As you say, that's not their fault. In the meantime, talking about how much they love 10 year olds getting married, how they're fine with thievery, is not going to be helpful in restoring that trust. My original point was that racism against the Roma in europe is still totally socially acceptable in a wide swathe of the population. This is a true statement. We can drop the whole Roma derail because you've already admitted this is true. INH5 posted:And I guess everyone just instantly knew that this guy liked the confederate flag through telepathy. It's not as if a bunch of people immediately went through this guy's Facebook pictures for anything they could use to score points against their political opponents. This is just a coincidence, honest: Why do you think it was 'to score points against their political opponents', rather than actually pointing out that horrifically racist culture does in fact inspire people to act out violently against the people it inspires hatred against? quote:I hate the stupid flag too, but seriously, give yourself some credit. What do you mean by 'yourself'? Who are you under the impression you're talking to? Obdicut fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jun 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:08
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:Pretty sure at least 30% of "gamergate" would get angry and ask for censoring a scene in a video game where a gay orgy happens. There'd possibly even be "think of the children" arguments. Because gamergate hated when somebody made a dating sim/puzzle game with explicit sex cards and a yuri option-oh wait, actually they loved Huniepop. But they definitely hated when two gay guys hooked up at one of their meetups and posted about it on Twitter-no wait, actually they found that hilarious. Ever consider the possibility that not all of your political opponents are the same people?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:14
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZzwv44EZJ0
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:14
|
|
|
INH5 posted:Because gamergate hated when somebody made a dating sim/puzzle game with explicit sex cards and a yuri option-oh wait, actually they loved Huniepop. But they definitely hated when two gay guys hooked up at one of their meetups and posted about it on Twitter-no wait, actually they found that hilarious. Not to mention some of their leading personalities include Milo, a flamboyantly gay man, and a bunch of women as well.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:15
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:Most of gamergate cheered for gay marriage yesterday. They're not socially conservative. Also, 30% isn't "most" either so INH5 posted:Because gamergate hated when somebody made a dating sim/puzzle game with explicit sex cards and a yuri option-oh wait, actually they loved Huniepop. But they definitely hated when two gay guys hooked up at one of their meetups and posted about it on Twitter-no wait, actually they found that hilarious. Also, "gamergate" are not my political opponents. They seem like a bunch of sad losers, and that's not scorn, but pity. They seem like losers to the same system the rest of us lost to, only they lost a bit harder.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:17
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:Is Adam Baldwin part of "gamergate"? And where, exactly, did you pull that 30% number from? For the record, these are the results from a GG political survey conducted back in December, showing more than 90% in favor of legalizing gay marriage: 
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:20
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:i think the 'cover up' was done by reddit and other sites who generally do not tolerate posting people's personal information for revenge That last bit is debatable
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:20
|
|
|
INH5 posted:And where, exactly, did you pull that 30% number from?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:23
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:Most of gamergate cheered for gay marriage yesterday. They're not socially conservative. Indeed, they're liberals. They're not really different from their opponents, which makes cheerleading for them doubly ridiculous. They want the same thing. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jun 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:24
|
|
|
When this game developer looks around him, thinks about the greasy neckbeards, and then decides not to make a japanese porn game- that's censorship. The implication made in this thread is that this is what the "slient majority" of gamers wants.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:33
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:Was this survey conducted on people who knew they were investigated qua being "gamergate"rs? Yes, it was an internet poll advertised as a "gamergate political survey," because there really is no other possible way to conduct such a thing. Are you suggesting that a bunch of people lied on their answers to that survey? If so, do you have any actual evidence of that? And I would still like to know on what basis you made your original claim that 30% of GGers would be vocally offended by a hypothetical gay orgy scene in a video game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 01:02 |
|
|
Does anyone here knows what Gamergate is?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2015 21:35
|
|
