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Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

quote:

Mr. Yan, the author of the empty condo report for BTA Works, was intrigued by the potential impact of the few-months-at-a-time renter. That sort of condo use would not have made it into his empty condo study, which was based on electricity usage. He said the short-term renter would have just as big an impact as the empty condo, however, because they are competing with rental stock for the working local looking for a home.

The massive difference between empty condos and short term rentals (STR) though is that in the empty condos are completely useless, whereas STR are occupied by tourists that are injecting significant amounts of money into the local economy.

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Franks Happy Place
Mar 15, 2011

It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

Femtosecond posted:

The massive difference between empty condos and short term rentals (STR) though is that in the empty condos are completely useless, whereas STR are occupied by tourists that are injecting significant amounts of money into the local economy.

The part you seem to be missing is that having outside money flowing into the housing market is indeed stimulate, but that stimulation has serious negative repercussions for the local housing market, and the vagur and ill defined economic benefits don't remotely offset those repercussions.

Housing is not a commodity, it's a necessity for living. If the local housing market has entirely decoupled from local incomes, that's bad, and some dickhead making a few grand a year renting his shoebox condo doesn't change that fact.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
Sjw calculus: being a rentier is only ok if you're hoarding taxi licences

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005

PT6A posted:

Why is long-term rental availability inherently better than short-term rental availability? The use cases are completely different, and you need both. It's ridiculous to blame AirBnB for low rental availability just the same as it would be stupid to blame a company like Premiere Executive Suites.

You've obviously never tried to rent a place long term in Whistler.


Or I assume anywhere else that depends primarily on tourist dollars. But JFC does looking for long term rentals here suck balls.

edit:

http://whistler.craigslist.ca/apa/5093432669.html

HookShot fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Jun 27, 2015

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

Franks Happy Place posted:

The part you seem to be missing is that having outside money flowing into the housing market is indeed stimulate, but that stimulation has serious negative repercussions for the local housing market, and the vagur and ill defined economic benefits don't remotely offset those repercussions.

Housing is not a commodity, it's a necessity for living. If the local housing market has entirely decoupled from local incomes, that's bad, and some dickhead making a few grand a year renting his shoebox condo doesn't change that fact.


Tourism is acknowledged to be a important part of Vancouver's economy, and the benefits of increased tourism seem clear to me. Increased tourism is not a vague and ill defined economic benefit. If the City does study this AirBnB issue throughly (and they definitely should) I would hope that they would try to determine the impact of these STR units on the Tourism economy in addition to determining a more precise idea of the actual number of STR units and whether removing those units from the market has a meaningful effect on rental vacancy or if it's just a drop in the ocean.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
Want to make Airbnb less lucrative and thus increase long term rental stock? Increase supply of hotels.

Oh wait there's a cartel of special interest groups who aren't interested in this sort liberalization.

I guess this should put you sjws on the side of hotel chains.

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005
The problem is hotels aren't fully self contained.

I almost always look at airbnb type sites for places before I look at hotels for that exact reason. If for the same price I can get a one bedroom condo/studio with a full kitchen, well that'll save me so much money/calories on food from eating out that I will absolutely go that route.

apatheticman
May 13, 2003

Wedge Regret

Cultural Imperial posted:

Want to make Airbnb less lucrative and thus increase long term rental stock? Increase supply of hotels.

Oh wait there's a cartel of special interest groups who aren't interested in this sort liberalization.

I guess this should put you sjws on the side of hotel chains.

Hey man, whats with dropping SJW every post?

Makes you sound like a gamer gater and not our own version of Dale Reed.

EngineerJoe
Aug 8, 2004
-=whore=-



"Don't buy the most expensive house in the neighbourhood" Oops

http://www.centris.ca/en/houses~for-sale~candiac~monteregie~5-rue-dublin/27766649

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

💥💥🤯💥💥
Gotta nuke something
If you've got that much money to build a literal mansion, why aren't you buying some more secluded property instead of building in the (rich person) suburbs?

EngineerJoe
Aug 8, 2004
-=whore=-



Bloody Hedgehog posted:

If you've got that much money to build a literal mansion, why aren't you buying some more secluded property instead of building in the (rich person) suburbs?

I'm not sure. It lacks the seclusion of a rural mansion but it's also lacks the urban appeal of a place like Westmount. It's probably a lot easier to sell a $7 million house in Wesmount even if it ends up being a lot smaller.

Ceciltron
Jan 11, 2007

Text BEEP to 43527 for the dancing robot!
Pillbug

Christ it's bigger than the consulates of most countries.

Vehementi
Jul 25, 2003

YOSPOS
Is that a garage with 5 garage doors?

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
To be fair, if I had the sort of money where having a $7 mil house seemed reasonable, I'd have at least 5 cars.

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

💥💥🤯💥💥
Gotta nuke something

Vehementi posted:

Is that a garage with 5 garage doors?

Don't be silly, it's much too big.

Clearly those are five affordably priced bungalows for low-income earners.

apatheticman
May 13, 2003

Wedge Regret

PT6A posted:

To be fair, if I had the sort of money where having a $7 mil house seemed reasonable, I'd have at least 5 cars.

To be fair, those are double car garages.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

apatheticman posted:

To be fair, those are double car garages.

If you look at the car on the left side of the image for scale, I'm pretty sure those would be tight as gently caress to try and fit two cars into.

Nine of Eight
Apr 28, 2011


LICK IT OFF, AND PUT IT BACK IN
Dinosaur Gum

EngineerJoe posted:

I'm not sure. It lacks the seclusion of a rural mansion but it's also lacks the urban appeal of a place like Westmount. It's probably a lot easier to sell a $7 million house in Wesmount even if it ends up being a lot smaller.

Not only suburban, Candiac is considered sort of a white trashy nouveau riche suburb, which may explain the particular architectural designs.

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord
Who would spend 7 mil on a castle in a Montreal suburb of all places? Zoning laws must not exist as I see the property nearly touching all neighbours for a castle that large. Also those cars in the left are on a neighbours driveway.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
Hey motherfuckers its neoliberal macro guessing time. China's stock market declined 7+percent last week and pboc responded by dropping the o/n rate for the 4th time since last November and dropped bank reserve ratios by 1%.

Greece couldn't find a solution to their debt problem so their ~Marxist pm decided to pull a christy Clark and put the question of crippling austerity vs eurozone membership to a referendum.

This coming week is either going to be loving hilarious for the world of finance or I will stop drinking alcohol for a month.

Is this the start of something really bad for Canadian housing finance or not?

Gorau
Apr 28, 2008

Cultural Imperial posted:

Hey motherfuckers its neoliberal macro guessing time. China's stock market declined 7+percent last week and pboc responded by dropping the o/n rate for the 4th time since last November and dropped bank reserve ratios by 1%.

Greece couldn't find a solution to their debt problem so their ~Marxist pm decided to pull a christy Clark and put the question of crippling austerity vs eurozone membership to a referendum.

This coming week is either going to be loving hilarious for the world of finance or I will stop drinking alcohol for a month.

Is this the start of something really bad for Canadian housing finance or not?

Nope. People are going to freak out, the BoC will keep its rate low and money from Asia and Europe is going to seek safety in other markets like the U.S. and so forth making banks even more willing to lend! Expect mortgage rates to fall :v:

Edit: also all stimulus is universal! The amount of money that the central bank in China pumps into the economy is going slosh around in capital markets around the world, not just in China.

Gorau fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Jun 28, 2015

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=11171131

quote:

Vancouverites rediscovering the ‘magic’ of being out on the water

lol

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe

Gorau posted:


Edit: also all stimulus is universal! The amount of money that the central bank in China pumps into the economy is going slosh around in capital markets around the world, not just in China.

Maybe. On the other hand, the last pboc stimulus had few takers from Chinese financial institutions.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe

Gorau
Apr 28, 2008

I don't get why this is a surprise. It's almost axiomatic when you look at a whole system. The interest rate is the price of money. The massive savings rate in east Asia and the massive expansionary policies of all the worlds major central banks make cash cheap and therefore the interest rate low. Low price means high consumption and there you are, high debt levels.

Mandibular Fiasco
Oct 14, 2012

Yeah, because a paediatric anesthesiologist and a psychologist are representative of the community at large.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Mandibular Fiasco posted:

Yeah, because a paediatric anesthesiologist and a psychologist are representative of the community at large.

lol

Fronczek believes it is a combination of relief that the recession is over and people suddenly deciding life is too short.

Mandibular Fiasco
Oct 14, 2012

etalian posted:

lol

Fronczek believes it is a combination of relief that the recession is over and people suddenly deciding life is too short.

Brilliant. YOLO and the absence of personal angst are now economic variables to be modelled.

So 'life is too short'...how does one know that if one doesn't know exactly how long one is going to live? "Too short" for what, exactly? And when did this recession actually end? I'm employed, which is more than I can say for when I lost my job in the middle of the GFC, but it's hardly fantastic goings.

I can't understand why journalists quote people making these statements without asking them what evidence they have for their position beyond personal experience. I am continually reminded of Lionel Hutz who said that he had "plenty of hearsay and conjecture" which were "kinds of evidence".

Edit: And seriously, we're trusting the boat sales guy to tell us about the state of the economy? This is only marginally better a tactic then let's ask the bozo on the street what he thinks about <INSERT TOPIC HERE>.

Pimpmust
Oct 1, 2008

Nothing to see here, nothing wrong at all. The giant lump under the carpet? Nothing, I told yah, the economy is doing just fine! - Every pundit/economist/banker 20092010 and forward.

Of course, this is not exclusive to "the economy", see for example: http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/06/09/why-has-bloomberg-given-robert-bryce-a-platform/203936

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Mandibular Fiasco posted:

Brilliant. YOLO and the absence of personal angst are now economic variables to be modelled.

So 'life is too short'...how does one know that if one doesn't know exactly how long one is going to live? "Too short" for what, exactly? And when did this recession actually end? I'm employed, which is more than I can say for when I lost my job in the middle of the GFC, but it's hardly fantastic goings.

I can't understand why journalists quote people making these statements without asking them what evidence they have for their position beyond personal experience. I am continually reminded of Lionel Hutz who said that he had "plenty of hearsay and conjecture" which were "kinds of evidence".

Edit: And seriously, we're trusting the boat sales guy to tell us about the state of the economy? This is only marginally better a tactic then let's ask the bozo on the street what he thinks about <INSERT TOPIC HERE>.

also the classic thing in which they ask real estate agents and brokers what the market will do.

Mandibular Fiasco
Oct 14, 2012

etalian posted:

also the classic thing in which they ask real estate agents and brokers what the market will do.

Yes, the joys of being a middle-man. Everything is great until someone figures out how to get rid of you.

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN
Even when you interview actual economists instead of realtors, a lot of the most widely read and cited financial experts are taking huge speaking fees or working at university departments that have large endowments provided by major financial institutions. Plus a lot of economists hold particular ideological positions that either say markets are really efficient and therefore bubbles and other fraud can't be endemic, or that markets have all been corrupted by big government, low interest rates or whatever, and therefore catastrophic hyper inflation is always right around the corner.

So I imagine it's rather hard to find large numbers of experts on the economy who don't have at least a potential conflict of interest. Even the guys who are constantly predicting doom are usually pitching their own book or their unique investment strategy that will help you survive the coming crash or whatever. It's not exactly a field that produces a lot of unbiased observers.

And it's not as though most newspapers actually exist to inform their readers. As long as you're able to attract advertisers or please your papers owner you are doing your job right, and in either case providing the most accurate analysis possible isn't necessarily going to help you achieve those goals.

Vehementi
Jul 25, 2003

YOSPOS
Really wish we were at the information / tech level to be able to just pit all these people against each other in a debate that continually iterates on a thesis, eventually arriving at the truth, or the truths, subject to certain assumptions, and we can draw down to "The bubble will burst, if you believe markets are efficient, and the bubble will not burst, unless the unknown statistic of foreign investment is above $X." But no, we read some guy's opinion backed up by anecdotes. Then, some other guy's opinion that doesn't directly refute anything in the first one, meanwhile both contain some elements of truth.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
Or you know, you could do some work and read some Shiller.

Nah that's just his opinion man

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN
There are obviously economists and market analysts out there worth listening to, the point is that good economic analysis is an under supplied public good in the marketplace of ideas for reasons that are entirely predictable (i.e. a lot of people benefit from this status quo).

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Mandibular Fiasco posted:

Yes, the joys of being a middle-man. Everything is great until someone figures out how to get rid of you.

I always love the real estate agent interviews for a business article since they always talk about how they feel the market it heating up again and then throw in some random
anecdotal stories to support their ideas.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
http://business.financialpost.com/news/retail-marketing/sears-canadas-chances-of-survival-are-slim-analyst-says-its-now-or-never

quote:

Time is running out for struggling department store chain Sears Canada to improve its financial results and the chances of survival are slim, says one retail analyst.

Keith Howlett of Desjardins published a report Friday saying it’s “now or never” for the money-losing company to make headway on a turnaround that has dragged on for several years with little progress.

“The next seven quarters are ’make it or break it’ for Sears Canada,” he wrote.

“Our current view is that an operating turnaround is improbable.”

Howlett’s prediction suggests the fate of the company will be determined some time around the 2016 holiday shopping season.

:smug:

hurry up and die sears

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
Who gives a gently caress? When was the last time anyone shopped at Sears anyway? It should shuffle off and die already instead of taking of space.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
Because you loving idiot, sears employs 11k people in canada.

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namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...628210527&ord=1

quote:

A Canadian mortgage meltdown? Unlikely

The supposedly elevated level of Canadian household debt levels relative to Americans has ignited a lot of talk about whether it is an opportune time to short Canadian banks.

Media reports suggest some U.S. hedge funds are doing just that, amid expectations of a Canadian mortgage market meltdown similar to the one in the United States in 2008-09.

Does this really make any sense?

The often-cited household debt-to-income measure saw a modest decline in the first quarter of 2015 to 163.3 per cent from the record high of 163.6 per cent at the end of 2014, while the analytically preferable debt-to-asset and debt-to-net worth ratios saw more significant declines, with each hitting seven-year lows in the first quarter. The former was down to 17.5 per cent from 17.9 per cent in each of the previous three quarters while the latter improved to 21.3 per cent from 21.9 per cent. These measures give a better indication of household solvency, given that financial obligations could be met with the disposition of assets.

What we are seeing is that debt is being used to finance asset purchases – either investing in real estate (holdings rose by $55-billion or 1.2 per cent in the first quarter) or financial assets (up $246-billion or 4.4 per cent to mark the strongest one-quarter increase on record back to 1990). These in turn are boosting overall household wealth and thus, mitigating some of the concern about the overall indebtedness of Canadian households. The balance sheet data emphasize the fact that assets are worth more than 5 1/2-times that of debt.

Indeed, the debt-to-income ratio is elevated versus its historical levels, but there are many mitigating factors, such as the strength of the asset side of the balance sheet, the fact that Canadian homeowners have substantial skin in the game, and the fact that the cost of carrying this debt touched yet another record low in the first quarter.

The debt service ratio in Canada is at its historically lowest level of 6.74 in the first quarter, nearly double the ratio in the early 1990s. We would need either a massive rate shock or a massive unemployment problem to generate a bad default experience.

Canada’s unemployment rate at 6.8 per cent in May at first looks elevated relative to the unemployment rate of 5.5 per cent in the United States, but on an apples-to-apples basis, Canada’s unemployment rate is 6.0 per cent which is not far above the U.S. level. Moreover, the broad R8 employment measure (that includes those marginally attached to labour force because of economic reasons) in Canada is at 10.1 per cent compared to 10.8 per cent stateside.

Meanwhile, the average weekly wage rate in Canada is accelerating. As of May, the year-over-year trend accelerated to more than three per cent, the strongest growth since October 2012.

What about the banks and supply side of the mortgage market?

The share of insured residential mortgages on Canadian banks’ balance sheets currently stands at 54 per cent, more than double the share when the banks last got in trouble in the late 1980s to the early 1990s.

Canadian banks historically have a high exposure to credit card loans, but since 2011 this share out of the non-mortgage loans declined from nearly 11 per cent to roughly 8 per cent in the first quarter of 2015.

Another argument for having a bearish outlook on the performance of Canadian banks is their exposure to energy companies.

Non-mortgage loans to oil and gas industry surged 70 per cent in the last year to record high. However, the matter of fact is that the share of loans to oil and energy companies out of the non-mortgage loan book is only 1 per cent compared to 6 per cent in 1985-86.

Those hedge funds shorting Canadian banks that have a 4-per-cent yield better know what they are doing, because nothing nefarious is happening to the local real estate market until the Bank of Canada begins the process of raising rates and boosting carrying charges.

Nothing bad will happen if nothing changes.

That's some loving sharp analysis right there. People actually give these loving assholes money to manage?

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