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Bonesnap posted:14 on the same day, while gamers were busy trying to figure out who was actually doing it.
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Jun 28, 2015 02:34
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Popular Thug Drink posted:if people are going to be assholes no matter what, then what's the point of opposing SJW attempts to overthrow the gaming world? aren't they just going to be assholes regardless, if there can be no victory in the grim digital future? You are really underestimating how much people actually enjoy being assholes on the internet. Dapper_Swindler posted:Yeah i remeber that. It wasnt even channers/mras/sjws/whatevers. it was just tons of pissed of teen girls who couldnt play some lovely phone game. Yeah, it was kind of funny because that poo poo happens all the time in gaming and most people just wait for it to be fixed or patched and these people just went insane for what basically amounts to cookie clicker combined with a paper doll game.
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Jun 28, 2015 02:35
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Dapper Dan posted:You are really underestimating how much people actually enjoy being assholes on the internet. i completely agree with you if you're saying that all gamergate boils down to is people trying to be as angry and spiteful as possible for no legitimate reason
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Jun 28, 2015 02:36
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Popular Thug Drink posted:it seems like nobody who's actually invested in this thing is affiliated with gamergate at all, they just follow all the details and know the particulars and can cite when major developments happened but they're not in the middle of it, really, they are dispassionate observers who just peek in from afar with a bemused smirk It's probably one of the longest running social media calamities since the invention of social media, and a good primer on how effective trolling can really destroy discussion and alienate people. It's horrifying. It's also pointed out the process of actual news media relying on secondhand information rather than getting their hands dirty, which for a lot of these youngens was an eye opener, I guess.
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Jun 28, 2015 02:37
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InsanityIsCrazy posted:It's probably one of the longest running social media calamities since the invention of social media, and a good primer on how effective trolling can really destroy discussion and alienate people. is there actually anything to discuss? i don't see how any gamergater claims are valid, except for the payola nature of games journalism, which is a problem with hobby journalism itself. it's like gamergate is just a way for people to legitimize their grievances and try to elevate their hatred from a pure and simple "i hate you" to something more rarefied, "i'm trying to prevent you from destroying gaming", which itself is just a sad rationalization
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Jun 28, 2015 02:39
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i dont know what this means. 14 of what? Mainstream articles. That thing you said that I quoted and provided a picture of. Popular Thug Drink posted:i don't think you can blame her for not believing the group which organized itself largely to call her a human monster made flesh Gamergate wasn't even a thing when she started making those accusations. The word "gamergate" wasn't even uttered until a day after those articles were written. Anita had absolutely nothing to do with gamergate until she brought up the world's least credible threat, and pointed the finger at a large group of people with no evidence.
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Jun 28, 2015 02:39
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i agree, which is why i doubt bonesnap's argument is true. i don't think any credible news source linked gamergate and islamic terrorism. if that did actually happen it was probably something one individual on twitter said that then got swept up into the gamergate mythology explaining how persecuted and beset they are by the rest of society I wouldn't call people like Devin Faraci and Geordie Tait creditable, yet their commentary was retweeted and repeated by Gawker and other sites. Which doesn't say much either obviously.
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Jun 28, 2015 02:39
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Dapper Dan posted:Yes, 'The Witcher 3' is pretty much exclusively Polish, from the character design to the attitude, Geralt's neutrality mirrors feelings in post-Communist Poland. Even the entire scenario, with the Empire of Nilfgaard threatening to take over the much more independent and vulnerable North can be interpreted as Communist Russia trying to Impose its will on a place where they feel it has no claim. It represents their culture almost exclusively. They are so proud of 'The Witcher' series, their president gave a copy of the 'Witcher 2' to Barack Obama. The 'Witcher 3' is a cultural export like 'Romance of the Three Kingdoms'. This entire line of argument would work a lot better if there hadn't been a black guy in Witcher 1. Don't blame anyone for having not played it, for all they polished the Neverwinter Nights engine until it shone in Witcher 1 that just made it a really shiny turd. Azar Javed, fire mage. Has a chance to be one of like three people in all of RPGs who can legitimately gently caress the player up for not detectiving well; he's the villain for the first like 5/6ths of the game, at which point of course it's revealed he's working for the REAL bad guy. Game establishes that black people do exist in NotPoland, and they're not only not unheard of in the kingdoms of the north their mercenaries have a rep as the people you seek out when you want to make sure your employees have no reason to give the slightest poo poo about local politics. From the perspective of NotPoland, Zerrikanians are 1. the place half the explosives in the world come from 2. a place some real fuckers of mercenaries come from. Now if they retconned that poo poo out for 3, they retconned that poo poo out, but there is some reason in-universe to wonder why there's no black people in the hour of the Northern Kingdoms' greatest 'oh poo poo oh poo poo we are all going to loving die.'
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Jun 28, 2015 02:40
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Bonesnap posted:Mainstream articles. That thing you said that I quoted and provided a picture of. none of those headlines refer to all gamers, and headlines are misleading anyway. maybe you meant to post a different image? Bonesnap posted:Gamergate wasn't even a thing when she started making those accusations. The word "gamergate" wasn't even uttered until a day after those articles were written. Anita had absolutely nothing to do with gamergate until she brought up the world's least credible threat, and pointed the finger at a large group of people with no evidence. it's a pretty safe assumption on her part that people who have made death threats against her in the past would continue to do so in the future there seems to be this tendency to claim that your opponents are falsely accusing a large number of people, which doesn't ever actually appear to be true. this kind of claim is indicative of a persecution complex, "war on all christianity" kind of chest thumping. i don't really see where you're coming from, sorry boner confessor fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Jun 28, 2015 |
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Jun 28, 2015 02:41
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Popular Thug Drink posted:is there actually anything to discuss? i don't see how any gamergater claims are valid, except for the payola nature of games journalism, which is a problem with hobby journalism itself. it's like gamergate is just a way for people to legitimize their grievances and try to elevate their hatred from a pure and simple "i hate you" to something more rarefied, "i'm trying to prevent you from destroying gaming", which itself is just a sad rationalization I think there could be a discussion on the problem of Twitter as a discussion medium. Or how people can prevent the next one of these over some other stupid niche. Other than that, Adam Curtis's Oh-Dearism comes to mind.
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Jun 28, 2015 02:43
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Popular Thug Drink posted:none of those headlines refer to all gamers, and headlines are misleading anyway. maybe you meant to post a different image? "Black people don't have to be your audience, black people are over" But it's not referring to all black people, just the bad ones quote:it's a pretty safe assumption on her part that people who have made death threats against her in the past would continue to do so in the future I agree, she probably will continue to fake threats against herself.
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Jun 28, 2015 02:44
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Bonesnap posted:"Black people don't have to be your audience, black people are over" are people born gamers? how do you identify a gamer in the wild? really though more than half of those headlines don't even mention gamers. i think you posted the wrong image, or you see something in that image that i do not Bonesnap posted:I agree, she probably will continue to fake threats against herself. i think this is an unfair accusation spread by people who hate anita sarkeesian for being a woman who speaks her mind. it is very likely that all of the death threats she recieves are real, because some gamers really are mentally deranged about women criticizing games
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Jun 28, 2015 02:46
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Ze Pollack posted:This entire line of argument would work a lot better if there hadn't been a black guy in Witcher 1. Don't blame anyone for having not played it, for all they polished the Neverwinter Nights engine until it shone in Witcher 1 that just made it a really shiny turd. Azar Javed, fire mage. Has a chance to be one of like three people in all of RPGs who can legitimately gently caress the player up for not detectiving well; he's the villain for the first like 5/6ths of the game, at which point of course it's revealed he's working for the REAL bad guy. Game establishes that black people do exist in NotPoland, and they're not only not unheard of in the kingdoms of the north their mercenaries have a rep as the people you seek out when you want to make sure your employees have no reason to give the slightest poo poo about local politics. From the perspective of NotPoland, Zerrikanians are 1. the place half the explosives in the world come from 2. a place some real fuckers of mercenaries come from. 1 black person out of 3 games seems incredibly diverse considering Poland's demographics.
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Jun 28, 2015 02:46
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did any gamergaters actually read any of the 'gamers are dead' articles?
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Jun 28, 2015 02:47
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sick trigger posted:did any gamergaters actually read any of the 'gamers are dead' articles? I think they internalized the "everything is clickbait" mindset, read the titles and said "gently caress you."
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Jun 28, 2015 02:49
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Squinty posted:1 black person out of 3 games seems incredibly diverse considering Poland's demographics. Wait until you see how many dwarves and elves there are Also how many The Lady of The Lake, Yes, The One Who Handed The Sword To King Arthur, That The Lady Of The Lakes there are.
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Jun 28, 2015 02:51
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i think this is an unfair accusation spread by people who hate anita sarkeesian for being a woman who speaks her mind. it is very likely that all of the death threats she recieves are real, because some gamers really are mentally deranged about women criticizing games this goes for both sides
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Jun 28, 2015 02:51
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Popular Thug Drink posted:or you see something in that image that i do not The words? goku im piss posted:I wouldn't call people like Devin Faraci and Geordie Tait creditable, yet their commentary was retweeted and repeated by Gawker and other sites. Did someone say Georgie Tait? 
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Jun 28, 2015 02:52
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poptart_fairy posted:Well Sheva was born and raised in the area the game is set and still got complained at for not being black enough. It kind of reminds me of the Nina Simone biopic and Zoe Saldana. I honestly think she could be darker myself but I think she is a solid character.
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Jun 28, 2015 02:52
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Bonesnap posted:The words? let me be more clear: you are reading way too much into this. you are alleging that these articles say things that they clearly do not say. i will be nice and assume that you have a firm grasp of english and are not having a psychotic event, so i can only assume that you have some reason to lie about the contents of those articles. you may not even be lying, you may just be unable to see through your own internalized biases
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Jun 28, 2015 02:55
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Bonesnap posted:"Black people don't have to be your audience, black people are over" 'Gamer' is a manufactured identity. And when did Sarkeesian fake death threats?
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Jun 28, 2015 02:57
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Bonesnap posted:The words? gently caress Kibler this is the best magic player
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Jun 28, 2015 02:59
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Ze Pollack posted:This entire line of argument would work a lot better if there hadn't been a black guy in Witcher 1. Don't blame anyone for having not played it, for all they polished the Neverwinter Nights engine until it shone in Witcher 1 that just made it a really shiny turd. Azar Javed, fire mage. Has a chance to be one of like three people in all of RPGs who can legitimately gently caress the player up for not detectiving well; he's the villain for the first like 5/6ths of the game, at which point of course it's revealed he's working for the REAL bad guy. Game establishes that black people do exist in NotPoland, and they're not only not unheard of in the kingdoms of the north their mercenaries have a rep as the people you seek out when you want to make sure your employees have no reason to give the slightest poo poo about local politics. From the perspective of NotPoland, Zerrikanians are 1. the place half the explosives in the world come from 2. a place some real fuckers of mercenaries come from. In the books, Zerrikania is barely ever mentioned and Zerrikanians themselves are almost unheard of in the North. People know they exist, but they absolutely have no idea what they are like. Only that its really hot down there, there might be jungles or deserts, bugs that can kill you, they like fire a lot and maybe worship dragons. The Witcher 3 is very much based on the books, much more than the other 2, and it goes right back to that narrative that Zerrikania is mysterious and really doesn't want anything to do with the North. It also takes a very, very long time to get there (many months) and you have to cross over mountains to do it. Yes, Azar Javed is there, but they are so rare in the North he turns out to be a main story point. And even he is an exception to Zerrikanians, because he is a renegade mage who got kicked out of one of their schools, which I remember was extremely uncommon. The only knowledge of them comes from traveling scholars, whose reports may or may not be accurate. Even so, 'The Witcher 3' basically divorces itself from the other games nearly completely with some exceptions to the second. The only consistent things from the first game are the three witcher friends you have and they get far more characterization here than they did previously and some little things which are mainly just easter eggs and poor Kalkstein. At least he got to say Radovid sucks cock before he died  and I don't even know if that is in the game for everyone or just people who played the first.
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Jun 28, 2015 03:02
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"Christian" and "Buddhist" are manufactured identities. If I said "Christians are over", most Christians wouldn't assume "oh, he's just talking about the bad ones". Moreover, if 700 Club said that, they wouldn't be allowed to hold their status among christians any longer, which is exactly what happened here. And Anita linked tweets saying simply "I disagree with you" and "This Tweet is a death threat" in her big collage of "death threats"(tweets). I'll be generous and say it's probably actually Josh McinJosh doing it, she seems a lot smarter than that. Bonesnap fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Jun 28, 2015 |
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Jun 28, 2015 03:02
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Bonesnap posted:"Christian" and "Buddhist" are manufactured identities. If I said "Christians are over", most Christians wouldn't assume "oh, he's just talking about the bad ones". Moreover, if 700 Club said that, they wouldn't be allowed to hold their status among christians any longer, which is exactly what happened here. christians and buddhists hold sincere philosophical positions that influence every part of their lives, from how they view the world and their place in it to how they interact with fellow humans. gamers just play video games and talk about playing video games
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Jun 28, 2015 03:09
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Bonesnap posted:"Christian" and "Buddhist" are manufactured identities. If I said "Christians are over", most Christians wouldn't assume "oh, he's just talking about the bad ones". Moreover, if 700 Club said that, they wouldn't be allowed to hold their status among christians any longer, which is exactly what happened here. did you read the articles
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Jun 28, 2015 03:11
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Bonesnap posted:"Christian" and "Buddhist" are manufactured identities. If I said "Christians are over", most Christians wouldn't assume "oh, he's just talking about the bad ones" Religion has a basis in shared cultural, philosophical & ideological values. 'Gamer culture' is, most charitably, a group of fan clubs for consumer products. It's weird that you are viscerally offended by a clickbaity title, but then refuse to read the subhead let alone the entire article. Link to the big collage of death threats that has things that aren't death threats? I tried to google but got a bunch of truther-style forensics about timestamps.
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Jun 28, 2015 03:11
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blackguy32 posted:I honestly think she could be darker myself Uhhhh. Why?
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Jun 28, 2015 03:11
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sick trigger posted:did you read even if they did, i don't think any combination of words in those articles would disabuse gamergaters of the idea that the mainstream media is attacking the very core identity of gaming itself
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Jun 28, 2015 03:12
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Popular Thug Drink posted:let me be more clear: you are reading way too much into this. you are alleging that these articles say things that they clearly do not say. i will be nice and assume that you have a firm grasp of english and are not having a psychotic event, so i can only assume that you have some reason to lie about the contents of those articles. you may not even be lying, you may just be unable to see through your own internalized biases Every argument you have made in this thread is based on the premise people who disagree with you are idiots acting upon their biases while you're clearly the only unbiased and smartest person in the room. None of your claims are ever backed up and you always skim through links other people post just enough to make some half-assed generalistic attempt to make them look retarded You have twice as many posts in this thread as the next guy but claim to not care about the topic. Basically what I'm trying to say here is that everyone who wants to have a honest discussion about this topic in this thread should put you on ignore which I am doing right now. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 28, 2015 03:12
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Popular Thug Drink posted:christians and buddhists hold sincere philosophical positions that influence every part of their lives, from how they view the world and their place in it to how they interact with fellow humans. It's really weird to me. I worked in game development for a long time, I've loved games since I was playing Pool of Radiance on a C64 back in the day, and I still game a lot. I would never think of identifying being a 'gamer' as an important part of my identity or personality. It's fun stuff that I do for a hobby. Some excellent games, like Psychonauts, rise to the level of art. I think obviously people could make great games while avoiding the pitfalls of sexism and racism which pervade the industry. Am I gamer or a SJW or what?
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Jun 28, 2015 03:12
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Totalizator posted:Every argument you have made in this thread is based on the premise people who disagree with you are idiots acting upon their biases while you're clearly the only unbiased and smartest person in the room. None of your claims are ever backed up and you always skim through links other people post just enough to make some half-assed generalistic attempt to make them look retarded You have twice as many posts in this thread as the next guy but claim to not care about the topic. Basically what I'm trying to say here is that everyone who wants to have a honest discussion about this topic in this thread should put you on ignore which I am doing right now. Did you read the articles?
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Jun 28, 2015 03:13
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Exclamation Marx posted:Did you read the articles? Not all but some of them. They're rude, preachy and dismissive based on little to no fact checking whatsoever and a clear bias against gamers. I actually encountered the original batch before I knew of gamergate and even then thought it's smug bullshit.
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Jun 28, 2015 03:15
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Totalizator posted:Not all but some of them. They're rude, preachy and dismissive based on little to no fact checking whatsoever and a clear bias against gamers. I actually encountered the original batch before I knew of gamergate and even then thought it's smug bullshit. like some of it was veneered in a sneering "lol fat dudebro neckbeard fedora nerd blawfhwagfgf" kind of language but the general idea isn't totally incorrect Like it wasn't literally declaring the gamer subculture dead or w/e Totalizator posted:Every argument you have made in this thread is based on the premise people who disagree with you are idiots acting upon their biases while you're clearly the only unbiased and smartest person in the room. None of your claims are ever backed up and you always skim through links other people post just enough to make some half-assed generalistic attempt to make them look retarded You have twice as many posts in this thread as the next guy but claim to not care about the topic. Basically what I'm trying to say here is that everyone who wants to have a honest discussion about this topic in this thread should put you on ignore which I am doing right now.
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Jun 28, 2015 03:25
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Popular Thug Drink posted:let me be more clear: you are reading way too much into this. you are alleging that these articles say things that they clearly do not say. i will be nice and assume that you have a firm grasp of english and are not having a psychotic event, so i can only assume that you have some reason to lie about the contents of those articles. you may not even be lying, you may just be unable to see through your own internalized biases Not to prop them up, but are you sure you're not being entirely disingenuous with that assertion and the assumption about the articles themselves? They all appeared around the same time, pointed to either to a toxic gaming culture or the Gaming identity and elements related. I wasn't quite sure what to think of them myself, but after reading them, a common theme emerges, and while its more or less business as usual for the sites that hosted them, its highly suspect that the tone is nearly the same across the board. Obviously the styles of the articles are different. but the vitriol contained within made it seem more the the authors were writing about mass genocide than just trollish immature behavior from some members of the gaming community and the general vulgarity of the channers.
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Jun 28, 2015 03:27
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Fabricated posted:Hey wow someone finally realized that Thug Drunk is a really lovely and bad poster, almost a zillion posts later after i had him pegged as a retard after looking at a single lovely post from him gj I miss Tezzor and wrestlingchat. I hope Shenmue 3 isnt hated for its traditional values. Obdicut posted:It's really weird to me. I worked in game development for a long time, I've loved games since I was playing Pool of Radiance on a C64 back in the day, and I still game a lot. That all hinges on A) if you have a twitter account and B) follow any of the rogues gallery on the "anti" side. InsanityIsCrazy fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jun 28, 2015 |
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Jun 28, 2015 03:28
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"Gamer" is as much of an identity as anything else. Sure, it's only slightly better a title than "Brony" or "Garbage Person", but if you identify with it, and use that identity to find like-minded people who also identify with it, it's an identity, and just as stupid to make such accusations against. The gaming industry is bigger than the movie industry, and it would be just as retarded of the movie industry press to put out articles like that. sick trigger posted:did you read Yes, 10 months ago, but the psychotic ramblings of Arthur Chu are forever in my mind. How long do you think Ebert would have had his job if he wrote "'Film Culture as we know it is kind of embarassing -- it's not even culture."? Exclamation Marx posted:Link to the big collage of death threats that has things that aren't death threats? I tried to google but got a bunch of truther-style forensics about timestamps. I'll post it here if I find it later, I'll have to dig through some poo poo to find it again.
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Jun 28, 2015 03:30
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InsanityIsCrazy posted:I miss Tezzor and wrestlingchat.
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Jun 28, 2015 03:31
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Bonesnap posted:"Gamer" is as much of an identity as anything else. Sure, it's only slightly better a title than "Brony" or "Garbage Person", but if you identify with it, and use that identity to find like-minded people who also identify with it, it's an identity, and just as stupid to make such accusations against. The gaming industry is bigger than the movie industry, and it would be just as retarded of the movie industry press to put out articles like that. The music industry press puts out stuff like that all the time. Punk is dead and all
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Jun 28, 2015 03:32
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I don't remember anyone ever saying film culture was a thing so that's a terrible argument right there
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Jun 28, 2015 03:33
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