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Just in time for the beta patch next week   With bonus Brazil CN. Got it with about 30 years to spare, although I think it could've been like twenty years faster as well if loving France didn't declare a war that shattered my intricately-planned, 100-years-in-the-making web of alliances that I was going to use to get the last few provinces from Spain. Ended up having to actually win his war first and then make my move on Spain after things settled down. Ended up going Exploration->Admin->Quality->Religious->Dip->Defensive->Maritime for my ideas. Was originally going to go with Quantity second, but I got off to such a good start and had so much land that my forcelimit and manpower were high enough that I could afford to hold off on it and go admin. That ended up working super loving well because I westernized while filling all the admin ideas out, so when Westernizing finally finished I quickly caught up in tech thanks to the -10% bonus. With Kongo's -10 Mil Tech NI I could also afford to always have Defender of the Faith once I switched to Protestant, which helped out a ton in wars. After I had Central Africa secured it was pretty easy to wrap up, although I definitely got lucky as hell on this run. The Ottomans were more or less kept in check by a giant Austria and Commonwealth, Portugal got knocked out of Africa early by Morroco, and when it was finally time to get the last dozen provinces from Spain they were in the middle of a super messy war that had their troops all spread out so I just blitzed their capital, took a few other forts, and peaced out with my 20% war score and provinces. I'd say the hardest part is definitely dealing with your own poo poo once you get huge. Rebellions were happening so often that I basically took two separate ~25 year breaks to do nothing but sit and get my unrest under control. I'm kind of curious if a Sunni run rather than Protestant would have ended up being quicker or easier, but I love me those Protestant aspects too much. Really fun challenge all-in-all, although there were a couple of stressful periods there when I thought that I might run out of time.
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Jun 27, 2015 08:33
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Wiz posted:It's actually been something I've been wanting to do for a year and a half. Finally got some time to bite into my backlog for this patch. Does the discount also apply to advisors obtained through papal points?
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Jun 27, 2015 08:34
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:Can someone explain the mechanics of Unlawful Territory and the Imperial Liberation CB to me? I'm trying my first ever ironman game as the Palatinate and I don't want to get my rear end beat by bringing the emperor's wrath down upon me. Whenever you take land that isn't a core of yours, should that land be in the HRE then the HRE will usually demand one of those and stop there. I think you're safe if you diploannex. If the Emperor is your ally, they most likely will never even demand any land.
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Jun 27, 2015 08:47
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Baronjutter posted:So can someone explain the benefits of parliament and debates? I love the idea but the rewards mostly seem like poo poo vs what you have to pay to pass them. For instance to win a debate that gave me like 1 base tax and 1 manpower in a province I had to spend about 200 MP, a nearly a thousand golds, and some prestige and republican tradition to get it to pass. I could have bought those base tax's with about 150 MP. When ever I stop to do a cost/benefit on most of the debate bonuses they don't really add up, at least not if you're a large country with tons of MP's to bribe. I consider the mechanic a waste of dev time by now, it works if you have 4-8 seats and after that it is never worth it, not even the +Colonist for 10 years is worth it. The bribes are way to expensive and the benefits way too small. Which is why I don't get this at all: quote:- Parliament Issues that boost base values of provinces will now only do so in one province per debate. The tax increase was only worth it if you could get for cheap non-MP bribes in the first place. And none of the bribes are cheap, making them more expensive makes a bad mechanic even worse. If anything the number of provinces per seat needs to go up and the bribes made cheaper for the system to be worth anything.
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Jun 27, 2015 11:21
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Been playing as minor nations so long that I thought I'd mess around with the Ottomans again... completely broken. That start is more explosive than I remember, and the core bonus is insane, especially when added with the admin bonus. Dude that did the single tag WC wasn't kidding.
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Jun 27, 2015 14:16
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Sorced posted:You don't get boats as primitives period. I haven't played them in a while and that's unfortunate. It was fun to lure the AI western navies into traps and destroy their transports. I just completed my first Ironman game since Art of War came out and this time I played an actual power and not an Asian minor. It was a bit different and I'm not sure how well I actually did in comparison to what other players would be able to do.  Managed to get the achievements for coring all of India and Japan as a European nation. Had some troubles expanding into Europe and didn't expand much into North Africa due to being allied with Tunis until around 1800. Think I'll try a Venice game next.
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Jun 27, 2015 14:19
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aeglus posted:Been playing as minor nations so long that I thought I'd mess around with the Ottomans again... completely broken. That start is more explosive than I remember, and the core bonus is insane, especially when added with the admin bonus. Dude that did the single tag WC wasn't kidding. It kinda feels like being the endboss.
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Jun 27, 2015 14:24
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I know Lucky Nations does weird things but... Is this normal?
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Jun 27, 2015 15:54
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It is 1571, there's 3 Protestant electors but no League event, what other criteria are there?
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Jun 27, 2015 16:19
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SkySteak posted:I know Lucky Nations does weird things but...
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Jun 27, 2015 16:25
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Yes, France will occasionally attempt to escape its container over the Pyrenees and will need to be reminded who's boss.
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Jun 27, 2015 16:30
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Luigi Thirty posted:Yes, France will occasionally attempt to escape its container over the Pyrenees and will need to be reminded who's boss. Its getting a little Napoleonic in the east as well.
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Jun 27, 2015 16:36
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forget your france, where is it your bohemia is snaking away to?
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Jun 27, 2015 16:44
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Another Person posted:forget your france, where is it your bohemia is snaking away to? Oh thats just a combination of taking Polish land and diploannexing who I can. Full Bohemia is: 
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Jun 27, 2015 17:17
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SkySteak posted:Oh thats just a combination of taking Polish land and diploannexing who I can. Full Bohemia is:
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Jun 27, 2015 17:32
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 Finished my game with the ugliest human-made borders you ever did see. In game I became a republic via event, switched to constitutional republic, and had a brief liberal period before my guy did an auto-coup to a republican dictatorship. I took humanist ideas for the culture acceptance bonus but I went super Catholic all game, spending a lot of the midgame as emperor smashing all the Protestants. The colonies are so ugly because I took expansion ideas (but not exploration) in the 1700s, and spent a lot of that century acquiring a bunch of American colonial nations and gradually pushing my settlers east. I really want to see how this world would cope with nationalism; you don't necessarily get a lot of feel for the kind of society you're running in EU4 other than accepted cultures, and I get so sad watching those become unaccepted niche cultures as I expand out of control.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:36
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So uh, how exactly do you beat Benin as Kongo? I've tried and it's more frustrating than any OPM start. Are you supposed to restart over and over until they end up in a losing war with no manpower or something? e: Well at least it worked  
Elman fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jun 27, 2015 |
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Jun 27, 2015 19:28
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Bort Bortles posted:Wow Austria got pissed at Venice. I've never seen that before. In a recent game I played Venice actually successfully punched provinces out of Austria while they were in a crazy HRE defense war vs. the OE. Austria responded by rivalling and then full annexing Venice within 50 years or so of the first war. Don't piss off the Habsburgs 
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Jun 27, 2015 19:36
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In my most recent game, Austria and Hungary decided to partition Venice. With Hungary getting Venezia itself. It was weird. Also the Mamlukes got their Aegean islands for extra weirdness.
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Jun 27, 2015 19:45
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Took this option a few times because why not be ruled by a Turk and then crusade them. I guess this is true if you think of my country as one big bastion? 
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Jun 27, 2015 19:55
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SkySteak posted:I know Lucky Nations does weird things but... Oh yea that's normal. AI France (or the AI in general, really) tends to wind up drawing some pretty redonkulous borders. The France in my game looks pretty silly: 
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Jun 27, 2015 20:48
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Two questions: 1. What's a good idea progression for Milan? 2. Are there any good map mods that make the map flatter, like late EU3? I hate the lumpy map.
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Jun 27, 2015 21:05
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Bold Robot posted:Two questions: Admin and/or Econ. Italian provinces are rich and expensive to core, plus the merc discounts in Admin make that an attractive early choice. Milan has a strong Development discount, so Econ and building up those rich provinces is a good idea later on. You're not really positioned to colonize, so Diplomatic and Influence ideas are probably your top picks in that category. Since you're sitting on two end nodes, Trade and Maritime might not be bad picks either. All the mil ideas are pretty well-balanced right now, obviously skip Naval. I'd probably go Diplomatic, Admin, Aristocratic for starters and then whatever.
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Jun 27, 2015 21:12
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Aristocratic is still garbage, I'm surprised by all these recommendations
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Jun 27, 2015 21:40
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Yashichi posted:Aristocratic is still garbage, I'm surprised by all these recommendations I can see why you'd think that if you haven't kept up with the changes in the game. It used to be garbage. Aristocratic is great for hordes or any country that has a cavalry ability bonus in their national ideas. People were trash talking economic earlier and even thought it's getting nerfed in the next patch but I still think it's a top tier group, especially now that administrative is one too since they both give you -1 Interest per annum. If you're Catholic and can use the papal action to lower it down by 1 more or if you're Hindu and can pick the deity that reduces it by 1 you pay barely any interest at all on loans. It works even better if you're Catholic and either Austria, Hansa, Tuscany or Hamburg since they get a -1 interest in their national ideas, although the lowest you can get it to is .25 out of 4. When you get the national bank event from economic you can make your loan size equal to 2 years of your income. If you've got a decent economy that should be a huge amount. I'm not sure how effective this still is as a way of industrializing with the changes to buildings/manufactories but you could probably still get pretty crazy results by doing this. Last game I did this I had roughly the territory of the Ottoman Empire but 1,100 land FL by the end because I could take cheap loans to build conscription centers everywhere and was making ~600 ducats a month in income by having manufactories in every province that were built from cheap loans along with nearly every other building, but that was before common sense. I'm not familiar enough with the new buildings to know if it's still doable but it probably is. Or even if you don't use it for building, it's still really good for raising tens of thousands of ducats with a few pushes of a button in an emergency and it'll barely cost you anything per month compared to the huge sums of ducats you're getting. Trujillo fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jun 27, 2015 |
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Jun 27, 2015 22:40
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Yashichi posted:Aristocratic is still garbage, I'm surprised by all these recommendations It's really good right now, the +1 Diplomat and +1 Leader slot are great. Somewhat ironic since those used to be hot trash. If you haven't played much Common Sense, you'll quickly come to find the lack of the early third Diplomat from an Embassy frustrating, especially if you're doing any vassal integration. The other military ideas will give you more actual punch in battles, but Aristocratic is an excellent first military idea pick for almost any nation right now. Of course, with the upcoming patch (beta out next week) that gives you +Diplomat and +1 leader with government rank, I'd bet Aristocratic will lose a lot of its appeal. Edit: in a vacuum, Aristocratic isn't all that great, no. However with the loss of unique building bonuses, it gives you some solid military stuff as well as "quality of life" bonuses and MIL point discounts which make it an attractive first military pick.
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Jun 27, 2015 22:48
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At least the difficulty of maintaining army tradition has boosted quality and defensive immensely compared to offensive, the previous obvious military idea of choice. ..Which may or may not get stomped into the ground with the upcoming AT from forts change.
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Jun 27, 2015 23:32
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Humanism and Diplomacy combined with Bohemian national ideas make for a very nice, stable Kingdom.
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Jun 27, 2015 23:37
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Forming Scandinavia takes Denmark out the HRE, why must you ruin my fun Wiz! Anyone know if you can immediately rejoin if you happen to be emperor at the time you form a new nation whose formation decision un-HREs all your provinces?
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Jun 27, 2015 23:43
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Now that I've had some time to sit down and play the new expansion, I finally decided to play a game on Ironman. I have to say the added challenge was nice. The idea of running a nation feels more tangible when you have to acknowledge that your decisions will have consequences--and so you'll need to think for a few minutes before spamming the Declare War button. Started as Poland in 1444 and finished with this:   Got all three Poland Cheevos, dismantled the HRE, and touched the Ottomans' butts. 
Deutsch Nozzle fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Jun 27, 2015 |
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Jun 27, 2015 23:50
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Kersch posted:Holy mackerel @ some of these patch notes: " - Fixed manpower being gained inversely on stackwipe (i.e. a regiment with 0 men would give the most MP back to country)." What? What. Do surrendering regiments return manpower...?
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Jun 28, 2015 00:02
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I was under the impression that you could core a province next to your vassals? I'm guessing this is part of the interesting "overseas" mechanics that happen around this area. At least I can work around it by claiming Genoa and taking their province to westernise. Edit: Realised it isn't clear, Circassia are my vassal. Donald Duck fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jun 28, 2015 |
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Jun 28, 2015 00:06
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Donald Duck posted:I was under the impression that you could core a province next to your vassals? I'm guessing this is part of the interesting "overseas" mechanics that happen around this area. They have to core the provinces next to it, first.
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Jun 28, 2015 00:08
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Larry Parrish posted:They have to core the provinces next to it, first. They have them all cored, they start with them all
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Jun 28, 2015 00:09
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Donald Duck posted:I was under the impression that you could core a province next to your vassals? I'm guessing this is part of the interesting "overseas" mechanics that happen around this area. At least I can work around it by claiming Genoa and taking their province to westernise. You can only core provinces next to your vassals on your home continent. The province you want to core however is in europe. PleasingFungus posted:" - Fixed manpower being gained inversely on stackwipe (i.e. a regiment with 0 men would give the most MP back to country)." If an army gets stackwiped you get 50% of the troops back as manpower.
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Jun 28, 2015 00:25
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THE BAR posted:At least the difficulty of maintaining army tradition has boosted quality and defensive immensely compared to offensive, the previous obvious military idea of choice. Why is offensive less appealing in this setup? Surely in an era of unreliable AT gains, guaranteed leader pips are even more valuable. Then again I just straight up love offensive and pretty much always have 
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Jun 28, 2015 02:18
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PleasingFungus posted:" - Fixed manpower being gained inversely on stackwipe (i.e. a regiment with 0 men would give the most MP back to country)." Yuuuuup. When I said it in here like two or three months ago nobody believed me until I posted some video evidence. The game does not tell you this anywhere unless you look at your manpower as you got wiped. And usually you are not doing that. I've actually used it tactically a couple times since then, sending a few dudes on colonial suicide missions, knowing that I would only lose half of those men. I'm not sure why that manpower is returned, I assume it means that the enemy took them hostage and did not hold onto them. Hostages were known to be taken in that time, sometimes entire armies, but they would not be released back to their home nation freely, and definitely not when war was still ongoing so they may continue to fight against their captors again. After war they might have been freely released, after they lost their value and served as a net loss to continue to hold, but definitely not during. When a unit shattered in reality, the idea was that they ran so that they may fight another day, and hostages cropped up as a result of that. Every man returned was the odds evened back in the favour of your enemy. The game already simulates shattering and running successfully with retreats however. I'm not sure why they allow manpower to be returned on a wipe though. I guess it might be for balance reasons? Another Person fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Jun 28, 2015 |
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Jun 28, 2015 02:27
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Allyn posted:Why is offensive less appealing in this setup? Surely in an era of unreliable AT gains, guaranteed leader pips are even more valuable. Then again I just straight up love offensive and pretty much always have I don't think Offensive is less appealing, it's just that all of the other military ideas (except Naval really) have some really solid uses now thanks to the removal of buildings, the AT nerf (which may not be a thing after the path), and the fact that manpower is an actual resource that you need to pay attention to and manage. Offensive is still fantastic, as is Quantity, but now Aristocratic gives you the extra diplomat/leader and the tradition decay actually means something. Meanwhile Defensive and Quality both give you the AT bonus while providing their usual benefits as well, and suddenly you're not just looking at taking offensive or quantity every single game. Plutocratic is kind of the odd man out since I think it's a little too econ/diplomacy heavy for a military idea (compared to aristocratic and defensive), but it's still not bad considering it's only available if you can't take Aristocratic. I've said it before but I really think the ideas are super well balanced now all things considered. I mean only Naval and Espionage are just outright useless, while all the others at least have their time and place based on which country and region you're playing.
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Jun 28, 2015 02:36
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Another Person posted:Yuuuuup. When I said it in here like two or three months ago nobody believed me until I posted some video evidence. The game does not tell you this anywhere unless you look at your manpower as you got wiped. And usually you are not doing that. I've actually used it tactically a couple times since then, sending a few dudes on colonial suicide missions, knowing that I would only lose half of those men. Huh. The more you know. Albania update: one of my armies vanished and I couldn't figure out why. This is why: 
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Jun 28, 2015 02:43
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I actually consider Pluto to be a veeeery valuable idea group if it is available. I know it isn't militaristic, but caravan power is hard to get, merchants are great and -5% on all tech is amazing. The 10% morale and manpower recovery speed is just icing on the cake.
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Jun 28, 2015 02:46
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