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BravestOfTheLamps posted:By ending the video game industry. So what, there's no place for video games in your socialist utopia? Who What Now posted:Yes, absolutely. More specifically because they have opinions about women being inferior sluts that need to get back to the kitchen. You know, even for people that do actually believe this and other disgusting things like racism, I'm not sure how condemning them to a life of poverty and social deprivation will actually help anything. Shadoer fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Jun 29, 2015 |
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Jun 29, 2015 15:17
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Who What Now posted:Yes, absolutely. More specifically because they have opinions about women being inferior sluts that need to get back to the kitchen. ... and feminists hate men and they should be crucified for it.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:20
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^^^^^ The difference being that Feminism has actual goals that they are working at and achieving like women's suffrage across the globe and other forms of gender equality that I can point to to prove that this isn't the case. All GG has is that they have become so absolutely toxic that a few review cites are losing patronage because they are associated with GamerGate at all with no regard with whether they are pro- or anti-. Shadoer posted:You know, even for people that do actually believe this and other disgusting things like racism, I'm not sure how condemning them to a life of poverty and social deprivation will actually help anything. They will serve as useful examples to other people not to behave like shithead bigots. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jun 29, 2015 |
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Jun 29, 2015 15:21
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Bholder posted:... and feminists hate men and they should be crucified for it. Well yes, I suppose everyone who posted under the #KillAllMen hashtag need to have their lives permanently ruined for their wrong beliefs. Edit: Who What Now posted:They will serve as useful examples to other people not to behave like shithead bigots. Or you know we could go through the normal process of debate and education which has worked really well in the past and didn't socially exile a large portion of the population or condemn them to poverty.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:21
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InsanityIsCrazy posted:CBA can have that effect on you. It's not CBA, it's the stuff they have collected on gamergate. I don't know how they did it, but there it is, a permanent record that stands against any claims that gamergate is about anything other than a pack of spooky, woman-hating freaks. Shadoer posted:Because they have opinions different than yours? Yeah, specifically woman-hating opinions. I always love this right-wing argument, where people hide behind "having an opinion." Well guess what? Having the wrong opinions can make you a despicable person. So can associating with people with wrong opinions.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:21
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But what does all this have to do with Minecraft?
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Jun 29, 2015 15:21
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Bholder posted:Hope you see the important distinction here. The list of people in gamergate who provide the talking points is not that big either. Except the more reasonable ones prefer to hide under the "neutral" umbrella and don't want to bother with sorting out the enormous pile of poo poo, and the rest enjoy the hell out of their sealion army because lol sjws got rekkkkt.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:21
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Who What Now posted:If you're asking me to provide actual graphs and poo poo to prove empirically that more black murderers reform than internet misogynists then you're going to be very sorely disappointed, I'm afraid. SedanChair posted:Why do you keep saying "how so" like you're broken? He just told you. GG is grosser and puts a permanent stench of patheticness on you. Black men who go to prison generally don't deserve to (yeah I know you are a "race realist," so there's no point in trying to convince you of that). Participating in GG, on the other hand, is the very definition of deserving things, including isolation and joblessness. Also your post is terrible. "a permanent stench of patheticness"? "deserving [...] isolation and joblessness"?
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Jun 29, 2015 15:22
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corn in the bible posted:But what does all this have to do with Minecraft? Nothing, that's not a video game. It's interactive media!
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Jun 29, 2015 15:23
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Shadoer posted:So what, there's no place for video games in your socialist utopia?
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Jun 29, 2015 15:24
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SedanChair posted:Yeah, specifically woman-hating opinions. I always love this right-wing argument, where people hide behind "having an opinion." Well guess what? Having the wrong opinions can make you a despicable person. So can associating with people with wrong opinions. I believe it's called freedom of speech, the mechanic that has also been used to defend homosexuality when they were consistently slandered as horrific child predators and convince the majority of the population it's wrong. Cingulate posted:Can't speak for Bravest, but in my socialist utopia, we're too busy exploring space, having sex in the shower, and curing cancer to play Witcher 3. If your utopia is "the video games are a bit better" that's cool though. Probably. But some of us would like to have the holodeck as well 
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Jun 29, 2015 15:24
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SedanChair posted:It's not CBA, it's the stuff they have collected on gamergate. I don't know how they did it, but there it is, a permanent record that stands against any claims that gamergate is about anything other than a pack of spooky, woman-hating freaks. murphyslaw posted:It is literally impossible to follow along in this web of intrigue, misinformation, fabricated proofs, and half-truths. You can basically just pick a corner of the "debate", and no matter how ridiculous, assemble enough evidence to compile a 100 page document on how your incredibly retarded interpretation of events is the only true one. Language is dead, words mean nothing, hail satan. There is no evidence because every bit of "evidence" has been crafted by The Other. This is the environment they have created. The truth is out there.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:25
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Shadoer posted:Or you know we could go through the normal process of debate and education which has worked really well in the past and didn't socially exile a large portion of the population or condemn them to poverty*. *Note: offer only valid to middle and upper-class white males.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:25
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Shadoer posted:Realistically, because at the moment it is achieving strategic goals. A bunch of the game review sites that were effectively corrupt have lost their audience and their advertising revenue and are facing some difficult financial realities. Because of the knee jerk reaction against censorship, it's now impossible for a campaign to prevent a game from launching on major sites like steam simply for political reasons, and creating alternative media. Also any useful organization like a consumer advocacy group will probably rise up from the organization.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:26
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Cingulate posted:Okay for all I care make it a white guy who committed robbery at 19. Too late, you've revealed yourself. quote:Also your post is terrible. "a permanent stench of patheticness"? "deserving [...] isolation and joblessness"? The things I'm describing are terrible. Do they not have a stench of patheticness? Is participating in this cult of raving misogyny something that they shouldn't feel ashamed of, even fifty years later? Do they deserve the company of others? Do they deserve jobs?
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Jun 29, 2015 15:26
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Shadoer posted:So what, there's no place for video games in your socialist utopia? From a practical stand-point, video games and their attendant technology represent a material luxury that is simply not supportable with the limited resources of our planet. It's not video games, but it's relevant: "Hidden in an unknown corner of Inner Mongolia is a toxic, nightmarish lake created by our thirst for smartphones, consumer gadgets and green tech" Naive liberals will point out to our wealth and prosperity as proofs of the superiority of liberalism, but it's illusory. The essence of liberal consumerism can be found in places like Baotou, industrial hellscapes that make our society and lifestyle possible. You can see it on Google Maps, even. e: This is not the kind of thing that liberal consumerism can correct or fix, this is liberal consumerism. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Jun 29, 2015 |
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Jun 29, 2015 15:27
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Shadoer posted:I believe it's called freedom of speech, the mechanic that has also been used to defend homosexuality when they were consistently slandered as horrific child predators and convince the majority of the population it's wrong. By all means, you have the right to say anything you want. It's just that saying some things will out you as a despicable person who should be shunned. Like everyone who associates themselves with gamergate. Parallels to homosexuality or other things that are not despicable do not have any bearing on this.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:28
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Who What Now posted:*Note: offer only valid to middle and upper-class white males. Well the Japanese, and the Chinese, and a lot of groups actually. Cingulate posted:Either way, give up the label. Right? I suppose I could to try, but I can't imagine it will do anything.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:29
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SedanChair posted:Too late, you've revealed yourself. SedanChair posted:The things I'm describing are terrible. Do they not have a stench of patheticness? Is participating in this cult of raving misogyny something that they shouldn't feel ashamed of, even fifty years later? Do they deserve the company of others? Do they deserve jobs? Civilized people, in the civilized world, lock up their fellow humans not because of superficially sublimated blood lust, but because we hope to be able to reform them - allowing to show them the errors of their ways. This goes for everyone, from people who commit minor offenses, to those committing harsher offenses, and includes mass murderers and insane psychopaths. It especially goes for those who commit offenses before adulthood. There is no sensible justification for making an exception for, of all people, internet misoygynists.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:32
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SedanChair posted:By all means, you have the right to say anything you want. It's just that saying some things will out you as a despicable person who should be shunned. Like everyone who associates themselves with gamergate. Except that in the past, backing homosexuality would brand you as a despicable person, just as defending black people in the past would make you a race traitor, and so on. If everyone shared your attitude, pretty much the entire civil rights movement wouldn't have happened.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:34
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Cingulate posted:No, I'm not asking you that. I asked you why you think a 19yo internet misogynist is less likely to not be a useless dick 10 years after the fact than a robber, your answer may as well be "I read the innards of small animals and they tell me so", or possibly "offense committed from a position of privilege are an entirely different thing than offenses committed from a position of systematic economic disenfranchisement". Although I guess graphs would be nice too? If you want a serious answer then it's pretty much this, along with the fact that getting a job is going to be much harder for the black murderer than the white bigot and I feel like the former is much more deserving of having a second chance because being gainfully employed is one of the best ways to prevent recidivism. And I whole-heartedly believe that the black murderer will be far more likely to have taken some time to do some introspection about his life, while I do not believe that a privileged white boy is likely to do the same because, let's face it, he isn't likely to have his bigotry to be all that seriously challenged. Shadoer posted:I believe it's called freedom of speech, the mechanic that has also been used to defend homosexuality when they were consistently slandered as horrific child predators and convince the majority of the population it's wrong. Freedom of Speech protects you from government censorship, not social consequences, you complete dumbass.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:34
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:From a practical stand-point, video games and their attendant technology represent a material luxury that is simply not supportable with the limited resources of our planet. In terms of physical resources, we're talking about a memory stick that's very reusable. I think we can manage the resources. BravestOfTheLamps posted:It's not video games, but it's relevant: "Hidden in an unknown corner of Inner Mongolia is a toxic, nightmarish lake created by our thirst for smartphones, consumer gadgets and green tech" I like Cinigate's socialist utopia a lot more.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:36
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Shadoer posted:Except that in the past, backing homosexuality would brand you as a despicable person, just as defending black people in the past would make you a race traitor, and so on. If everyone shared your attitude, pretty much the entire civil rights movement wouldn't have happened. You've got it rear end-backwards. There were always right-thinking people who knew at the time that discrimination against those groups was wrong. And now here you are, defending a movement that discriminates against women. Don't try to cloak yourself in the trappings of people who fought bigotry. You belong to the historical class of those who promoted bigotry.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:38
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Is Minecraft sexist or not, please let me know. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 29, 2015 15:42
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Shadoer posted:Except that in the past, backing homosexuality would brand you as a despicable person, just as defending black people in the past would make you a race traitor, and so on. If everyone shared your attitude, pretty much the entire civil rights movement wouldn't have happened. You need to finish your thought, it's incomplete. Right now, your half-finished thesis is that shunning people for bad behavior or considering them despicable is bad because what is perceived as bad behavior changes over time. The corollary for this would be to not shun anyone for any behavior. I doubt you believe this. So, finish your thought. Is your position that people aren't necessarily to blame for being racist because they were rased that way, that GGers aren't necesarily to blame with being misogynists or fine with associating with misogynist because that was and is part of their culture, or are you making a different argument? It's possible, i guess, that you're making a completely morally relativistic argument, it just seems unlikely.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:42
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corn in the bible posted:Is Minecraft sexist or not, please let me know. Maybe?
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Jun 29, 2015 15:43
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corn in the bible posted:Is Minecraft sexist or not, please let me know. it was a little sexist in that the only player character was male, now they're adding a female character to fix that very mild problem. Other than that, no sexism. I hope this helps your minecraft awareness. Also what's the game like now? I checked out of it a long long time ago, have the functionality additions actually improved it?
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Jun 29, 2015 15:44
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Hmmm... I have a question. Is there anything Anita Sarkeesian said in her videos or outside of it that you don't agree with or you have problems with?
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Jun 29, 2015 15:45
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Minecraft discriminates against "real gamers" by having low hardware requirements and no titties.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:46
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Who What Now posted:If you want a serious answer then it's pretty much this, along with the fact that getting a job is going to be much harder for the black murderer than the white bigot and I feel like the former is much more deserving of having a second chance because being gainfully employed is one of the best ways to prevent recidivism. And I whole-heartedly believe that the black murderer will be far more likely to have taken some time to do some introspection about his life, while I do not believe that a privileged white boy is likely to do the same because, let's face it, he isn't likely to have his bigotry to be all that seriously challenged. Also I'm much less optimistic about the US prison system than you still. From what I've seen of that place, the last thing it leads you to is introspection. Shadoer posted:I like Cinigate's socialist utopia a lot more.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:49
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Shadoer posted:Except that in the past, backing homosexuality would brand you as a despicable person, just as defending black people in the past would make you a race traitor, and so on. If everyone shared your attitude, pretty much the entire civil rights movement wouldn't have happened. You realize that your analogy essentially implies that misogyny is just misunderstood and isn't actually bad, right? So you're saying you do support the ideas that women are inherently inferior to men and that those that don't are the real bigots? Because that's what I'm getting out of this statement. EDIT Cingulate posted:Okay make it a white guy. Why? quote:Also I'm much less optimistic about the US prison system than you still. From what I've seen of that place, the last thing it leads you to is introspection. Cool, but I don't really care about what you think of the prison system, nor is it particularly relevant to this thread or the example. I mean, the prison system has undeniable and enormous problems, but this isn't the place to hash those out. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Jun 29, 2015 |
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Jun 29, 2015 15:52
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Shadoer posted:Except that in the past, backing homosexuality would brand you as a despicable person, just as defending black people in the past would make you a race traitor, and so on. If everyone shared your attitude, pretty much the entire civil rights movement wouldn't have happened. It's because people shared that attitude that the civil rights movement happened. Do you think that homosexuals and black people asked really nicely to be treated as equals? It was people who took a stand and said "This is wrong" and pressured people into changing their actions, if not their thoughts. The "cult of shame" works both ways. Human beings are social creatures and we seek approval. One of the biggest weapons for social change is to make people feel as loving awful as they're being.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:55
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Who What Now posted:You realize that your analogy essentially implies that misogyny is just misunderstood and isn't actually bad, right? So you're saying you do support the ideas that women are inherently inferior to men and that those that don't are the real bigots? Because that's what I'm getting out of this statement. "There was a time, a dark time, when posting long diatribes about a woman's sex life on the internet was seen as wrong."
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Jun 29, 2015 15:55
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Anita's videos that I've watched are really bad. I've only watched a couple, the Hunger Games and the Beyond Good and Evil videos, because life is short. Most of what she says is basically "Beyond Good and Evil the book report" which is uncontroversial because it's just Cliff's Notes. The one point she made that is worth discussion, a female character saving a male character is not the same as the opposite, is left as a given without further statement. This makes me wonder if the people defending her videos have actually watched any because they are just bad.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:57
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SedanChair posted:You've got it rear end-backwards. There were always right-thinking people who knew at the time that discrimination against those groups was wrong. And now here you are, defending a movement that discriminates against women. Don't try to cloak yourself in the trappings of people who fought bigotry. You belong to the historical class of those who promoted bigotry. Except in order for those "right-thinking people" to make their point, they needed free speech to do it. Those people were always a minority, but because they could argue their case they were able to get their ideas across. Obdicut posted:You need to finish your thought, it's incomplete. Right now, your half-finished thesis is that shunning people for bad behavior or considering them despicable is bad because what is perceived as bad behavior changes over time. The corollary for this would be to not shun anyone for any behavior. I doubt you believe this. So, finish your thought. Is your position that people aren't necessarily to blame for being racist because they were rased that way, that GGers aren't necesarily to blame with being misogynists or fine with associating with misogynist because that was and is part of their culture, or are you making a different argument? It's possible, i guess, that you're making a completely morally relativistic argument, it just seems unlikely. Well to the point of free speech, I think people should be able to express their opinions no matter how horrible they are. Yes some social censure is understandable, but not to the point of that their are condemned to poverty and effective exile because of it. My citing of past examples was to demonstrate that ideas at the time considered disgusting eventually won because of free speech, not that misogyny will be accepted or is right (it's not right). The thing is, in order to advance society you need to have an environment where people can express their ideas without having to worry it's the end of their lives. Who What Now posted:You realize that your analogy essentially implies that misogyny is just misunderstood and isn't actually bad, right? So you're saying you do support the ideas that women are inherently inferior to men and that those that don't are the real bigots? Because that's what I'm getting out of this statement. See the above, and no I don't think misogyny is misunderstood. I do find value in the topic debated though, if only to put feminism through the crucible to tighten the what it is and what it isn't.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:00
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Germstore posted:Anita's videos that I've watched are really bad. I've only watched a couple, the Hunger Games and the Beyond Good and Evil videos, because life is short. The only defense of Anita's videos that I've seen are that their quality, or debatable lack thereof, are not deserving of the intense vitriol that she receives for them.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:01
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Obdicut posted:it was a little sexist in that the only player character was male, now they're adding a female character to fix that very mild problem. Other than that, no sexism. I hope this helps your minecraft awareness. Still runs on Java so it's probably the #1 source of viruses for Windows.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:02
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Who What Now posted:The only defense of Anita's videos that I've seen are that their quality, or debatable lack thereof, are not deserving of the intense vitriol that she receives for them. Fair enough.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:02
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Shadoer posted:Except in order for those "right-thinking people" to make their point, they needed free speech to do it. Those people were always a minority, but because they could argue their case they were able to get their ideas across. Who What Now posted:Freedom of Speech protects you from government censorship, not social consequences, you complete dumbass. Please learn what Freedom of Speech actually is and what it protects you from so you can stop looking like a moron when you try and hide behind it.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:04
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Germstore posted:Anita's videos that I've watched are really bad. I've only watched a couple, the Hunger Games and the Beyond Good and Evil videos, because life is short. What is bad about them? Is there something mistaken in the claim that there are very different narrative associations in American media between a man saving a woman and a woman saving a man?
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Jun 29, 2015 16:05
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