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InsanityIsCrazy posted:Porn is for losers. What does this have to do with game journalism? InsanityIsCrazy posted:... for losers[:] game journalism [...]
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Jun 29, 2015 16:55
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Both "Beat up Jack Thompson" and "Beat up Anita Sarkeesian" are rooted in violence against perceived threats to gamer culture. This does not mean that "Beat up Anita Sarkeesian" is not misogynistic.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:55
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Cingulate posted:Your fantasy of angry white guys being jobless and socially isolated for being dicks to women on the internet is vile poo poo too btw. Do you think racists deserve the same treatment? I do, their conduct is equally repugnant. Zombywuf posted:If you're not going to elaborate I'm just going to assume your motives are terrible. Do you not understand the nature of violence against women?
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Jun 29, 2015 16:55
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InsanityIsCrazy posted:Porn is for losers. What does this have to do with game journalism? Just because something is a fictional depiction of something, and not the real thing, does not make it OK.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:56
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So is gamergate still basically a sisyphean slapfight? I mean, at this point, isn't it basically two sides screaming at each other for the simple pleasure of the righteous indignation and outrage?
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Jun 29, 2015 16:57
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SedanChair posted:Do you think racists deserve the same treatment? This one is kind of obvious actually, considering literally billions of people, including indians, chinese, and africans, are racist. But yes, even white racists in the west should be treated as human beings. There are only very few people where I think the alternative can be meaningfully discussed, and by "can be", I mean, has been, by Hannah Arendt.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:58
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Suppose I'm a bona fide misogynist, and I inadvertently "reveal myself" by saying something self-evidently sexist. Luckily for women, this is one of those times where the snowball starts rolling, and next thing, I am shunned and lose my job. Suppose further that this reaction actually gives me pause to reflect, and that I subsequently truly cease holding misogynist beliefs. Can I become un-shunned?
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Jun 29, 2015 16:58
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Adventure Pigeon posted:So is gamergate still basically a sisyphean slapfight? pretty much.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:58
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Adventure Pigeon posted:So is gamergate still basically a sisyphean slapfight? No, it's one side being misogynist and the other side continuing to point that out.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:00
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Sinnlos posted:Just because something is a fictional depiction of something, and not the real thing, does not make it OK. I would suppose that's why one of those things is illegal and the other is not.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:00
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SedanChair posted:No, it's one side being misogynist and the other side continuing to point that out. So it's basically what I said it was.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:00
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Adventure Pigeon posted:So is gamergate still basically a sisyphean slapfight? You have a poorly done, editorialized video blog that meets no real academic standards but purports to qualify as "educational" that pissed off lots of butt-hurt, often misogynistic men because it threatened their favorite pastime. Voices of reason are few and far between.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:01
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Sinnlos posted:Just because something is a fictional depiction of something, and not the real thing, does not make it OK. There are some very immediate problems with this stance.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:02
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SedanChair posted:Do you not understand the nature of violence against women? Is your position that somehow it's more wrong than violence against the elderly?
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Jun 29, 2015 17:02
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InsanityIsCrazy posted:Porn is for losers. What does this have to do with game journalism? Porn has about as much to do with games journalism as GanerGate, I'd say. Lotophage posted:Its probably not actually. Fantasizing about punching an older, white, male lawyer is about feeling empowered because you are striking out against someone who has power over you and overthrowing them. Fantasizing about punching a woman is about lording your power over someone weaker than yourself. HTH See Also: punching up vs punching down in comedy
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Jun 29, 2015 17:02
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Zodium posted:Suppose I'm a bona fide misogynist, and I inadvertently "reveal myself" by saying something self-evidently sexist. Luckily for women, this is one of those times where the snowball starts rolling, and next thing, I am shunned and lose my job. Suppose further that this reaction actually gives me pause to reflect, and that I subsequently truly cease holding misogynist beliefs. Yeah sure, why not. You don't even have to be truly devoid of misogynist beliefs, you just have to keep them to yourself.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:02
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Zodium posted:Suppose I'm a bona fide misogynist, and I inadvertently "reveal myself" by saying something self-evidently sexist. Luckily for women, this is one of those times where the snowball starts rolling, and next thing, I am shunned and lose my job. Suppose further that this reaction actually gives me pause to reflect, and that I subsequently truly cease holding misogynist beliefs. Of course. I don't get these questions where there's an obvious answer. There are anti-racism speakers--very effective ones--who started out as virulent racists. President Obama moved from someone who was somewhat uncomfortable with gay people and gay marriage to someone who supports gay rights, including marriage. It's doubtful, if you were employed by someone and made a bunch of tweets about what a oval office some woman is, that they'll hire you back, but you could plead your case after demonstrating an actual change in your behavior--not just stopping calling women cunts, say, but volunteering at a woman's shelter or something like that. But getting a new job would probably just mean not being an active mysogynist. InsanityIsCrazy posted:I would suppose that's why one of those things is illegal and the other is not. Legal and illegal isn't equivalent to okay and not okay. It's legal for me to email everyone I know and tell them they're stupid fuckers who will never amount to anything. It's not okay to, in a lot of ways.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:03
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Adventure Pigeon posted:So it's basically what I said it was. No, you were attempting to portray the sides as somehow being equal, when the truth is that one side is correct and the other is incorrect. Zombywuf posted:Is your position that somehow it's more wrong than violence against the elderly? How sincere.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:03
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Zombywuf posted:Is your position that somehow it's more wrong than violence against the elderly? The elderly are weak and no longer contribute to the health of the body politic. Those who have not become Heroes of the proletariate (who may be kept around for educational purposes) should be expunged.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:06
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SedanChair posted:No, you were attempting to portray the sides as somehow being equal, when the truth is that one side is correct and the other is incorrect. You can be right and still be a annoying and dumb about it.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:07
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KaptainKrunk posted:You have a poorly done, editorialized video blog that meets no real academic standards but purports to qualify as "educational" that pissed off lots of butt-hurt, often misogynistic men because it threatened their favorite pastime. I think most of the voices of reason have moved on to saner pastures. There may have been some people interested in a genuine dialogue over issues of diversity and sexism in games early on, but I think they've kinda cleared out.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:07
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KaptainKrunk posted:You have a poorly done, editorialized video blog that meets no real academic standards but purports to qualify as "educational" that pissed off lots of butt-hurt, often misogynistic men because it threatened their favorite pastime. Why are the videos bad and not good? I think they're good examples of using pop culture to educate kids to think carefully and reason well. In what ways am I mistaken?
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Jun 29, 2015 17:08
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Who What Now posted:Fantasizing about punching an older, white, male lawyer is about feeling empowered because you are striking out against someone who has power over you and overthrowing them. Fantasizing about punching a woman is about lording your power over someone weaker than yourself. HTH That's dumb. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 29, 2015 17:08
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Who What Now posted:Fantasizing about punching an older, white, male lawyer is about feeling empowered because you are striking out against someone who has power over you and overthrowing them. Fantasizing about punching a woman is about lording your power over someone weaker than yourself. HTH I think you're confusing old men with MMA experts. SedanChair posted:How sincere. I am totally sincere. I think your opinions are more about salving some dark aspect of your own concious than any genuine desire for social progress.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:09
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SedanChair posted:No, you were attempting to portray the sides as somehow being equal, when the truth is that one side is correct and the other is incorrect. No, I'm trying to portray both sides as engaging in something futile. To actually say which is correct, you'd have to look at what they claim to support, what they actually support, and how they're supporting it. This is made a lot more difficult by the fact that this varies from person to person within the groups. It's an absolute mess at this point and trying to make any sense out of it is as futile as the agendas they're pushing.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:11
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Zodium posted:Suppose I'm a bona fide misogynist, and I inadvertently "reveal myself" by saying something self-evidently sexist. Luckily for women, this is one of those times where the snowball starts rolling, and next thing, I am shunned and lose my job. Suppose further that this reaction actually gives me pause to reflect, and that I subsequently truly cease holding misogynist beliefs. Just apologize with a clear understanding of what (hypothetical) you did wrong, like a normal human being should. For an example that it works just look at Jim Sterling recovering from being a sexist rear end in a top hat.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:11
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now what if it's a older white woman who have power and is very conservative in view? what I am saying is, are we ok to punch margaret thrasher?
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Jun 29, 2015 17:11
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Cyron posted:now what if it's a older white woman who have power and is very conservative in view? what I am saying is, are we ok to punch margaret thrasher? I recall a certain attitude toward Michelle Bachmann around here, but I don't think she likes video games
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Jun 29, 2015 17:14
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Obdicut posted:Of course.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:14
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InsanityIsCrazy posted:I recall a certain attitude toward Michelle Bachmann around here, but I don't think she likes video games oh her, I think I wanted to punch the poo poo out of her just for that line about when the east cost got hit by a hurricane and a earthquake as a "god is sending a message" people loving die and there is millions in damage you thoughtless gently caress.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:18
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Cingulate posted:the recent change in passive support for marriage equality shows how many people are simply followers to what they think society has decided to be okay. Now this is not admirable, but neither does it justify outright condemnation by your rather privileged average SA.com poster. We're all products of our genes and environment, and not hating women doesn't mean you're a higher form of life, it probably just means you have enjoyed the privilege of decent parenting. Environment obviously has some impact, but it's just as obviously not overwhelming. It's also orthogonal to the point, or rather, it reinforces the idea that if we want things to change, societal shunning is a key thing that has to happen. Personally, I think that the bravery of gay men and women who have lived openly even when it was actually physically dangerous for them to do so has allowed ordinary people to overcome their prejudices and change their minds. If it were parenting, overwhelmingly, thew ay you're saying we'd see a much slower generational shift; things are changing too fast for that explanation to be true, people are actually changing their minds. We certainly are at a place in our society where the average schmoe should be able to evaluate women as equals to men without a lot of special prompting, even if they're being raised to think otherwise. I was raised to think gay people were weird and crazy and sinful and disturbed, and it didn't work just because I was able to observe gay people and go, "Nah, they're not."
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Jun 29, 2015 17:22
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Cyron posted:
Sometimes I think South Park is the worst thing ever to happen to American discourse.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:26
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Obdicut posted:Environment obviously has some impact, but it's just as obviously not overwhelming. It's also orthogonal to the point, or rather, it reinforces the idea that if we want things to change, societal shunning is a key thing that has to happen.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:26
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Zombywuf posted:I think you're confusing old men with MMA experts. Keep this on the down-low, but there are more kinds of power than just physical 
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Jun 29, 2015 17:26
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http://imgur.com/5ECIRwU lol. I like how his 5th grade insults have actual bad poo poo behind them, but he never researched them because he is to busy being mad that batman doesnt cry. https://twitter.com/radicalbytes/status/615416249263243264 Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Jun 29, 2015 |
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Jun 29, 2015 17:29
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No hotlinking Mods?
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Jun 29, 2015 17:32
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Obdicut posted:We certainly are at a place in our society where the average schmoe should be able to evaluate women as equals to men without a lot of special prompting, even if they're being raised to think otherwise. I was raised to think gay people were weird and crazy and sinful and disturbed, and it didn't work just because I was able to observe gay people and go, "Nah, they're not." Yeah, actually interacting with gay people was what changed my beliefs. Throughout middle and high school I was raised in a heavily Catholic environment where the authorities made it clear being gay wasn't normal, even if they didn't flat out call it disgusting and evil. The other students were the ones that made it clear it was disgusting and evil. Later on in college and afterwards I met lots of people who turned out to be gay, and I realized that they were perfectly fine, it was my beliefs that were wrong, and I became a better person for it. I wonder if I had been shamed and isolated for my beliefs instead if I would've changed my mind as quickly or at all. I might've not spoken about them in public, but I might've sought out people who shared them with me and ended up much more conservative as a result. Either way, I'm glad it didn't happen that way, but it does make me wonder how effective shaming actually is.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:32
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The Yahoos in Gulliver's Travels are meant to compare English imperialists to vicious animals. They have a king and kill each other over rocks and Gulliver's goes insane once he figures it out.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:35
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Jack Gladney posted:Why are the videos bad and not good? I think they're good examples of using pop culture to educate kids to think carefully and reason well. In what ways am I mistaken? - Lack of systematic research - Failure to operationalize concepts, spell them out clearly, and place them in a proper context. - Academic dishonesty (failing to cite, borrowing materials without permission, and so on). They just aren't very good videos. That's not really fair. Most of those words have long been divorced from those specific, bigoted meanings. KaptainKrunk fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jun 29, 2015 |
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Jun 29, 2015 17:35
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So just to be clear here, if instead of making a "Beat Up Anita Sarkeesian" game, they had made a "Beat Up Jonathon McIntosh" game, would everyone here would be fine with that?
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Jun 29, 2015 17:36
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