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Throatwarbler posted:But the 159 is FWD? Well, OK, take the new thing, and put the 159 body on it unchanged.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:45
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sanchez posted:Probably something similar to what we get now. It's a shame they won't do a high output diesel in in the A4, Merc and BMW have left the door wide open (Is there a slower car per dollar than a 328xd wagon?) I've said it before, but if there was an A4 wagon with the 3.0TDI for sale in the US I'd probably be in it. Outside of the part where they'd make it cost more than an S4 for whatever dumb reason. And yeah, the 328d was slower than my Golf TDI at more than double the cost. The price on those is loving ridiculous.
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Jun 29, 2015 15:57
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That Audi looks nice, but it doesn't put a twitch in the chinos. Maybe the new S4 will.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:01
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Tide posted:Take away the ipad mounted on the dash and that is a gorgeous interior.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:16
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bull3964 posted:All the sensors are there. That's what's driving the gauges you have today. Graphics and software packages can be had off the shelf from companies now. Yeah I don't see anyone but the cheapest of the cheap companies buying graphics and software pre-built. Anything over $30k is going to be bespoke and the amount of effort that goes into even just the placement of things is ridiculous. You have multiple departments making one car, all vying for space on the dashboard. Your HVAC people NEED this amount of space for venting etc which eats into your screen room, the dude that designs the dash surround NEEDS to tweak this or that meaning you have less space, more space, a different shaped space. The guy that fits the clock orders in the wrong size clock but decides to fudge it anyway causing you yet more stress as you lose another 1/2" of valuable screen space or cause the thing not to fit at all... I know a guy who works in the car industry on interface design for a variety of cars and some of the stories he's told me are just ridiculous in terms of the amount of people that are all fighting to get this or that done on a car and the sheer stupidity of the people involved, particularly the programmers who you need to make sure your poo poo actually appears onscreen. You could definitely do a cluster, you'd just need to mandate that all your cars must have the same size aperture for the screens but even then you run the risk of someone needing to take up some room and all of a sudden your speedo is half off the dash and you need to redesign the entire interface to fit and then go speak to your programmers again and all the annoyance that brings... Seriously, I've heard some amazing poo poo about the art of designing this sort of thing, it's really interesting. You still need a whole stack of people behind the scenes making poo poo work though, plus the cost of the screens themselves. Also are reversing cameras a requirement now? I never knew.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:28
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Solution: replace all gauge clusters with Racepaks, and all switchgear with metal toggle switches.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:36
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88h88 posted:
Yes, they will be required on new cars being sold after May 1st 2018. All the design considerations you've given are still there if they are physical gauges with the added complexity that that design is less flexible so any changes are going to be more time consuming and more costly. Coherent and user friendly design is hard, but that's not a digital problem. Digital is just a larger toolbox.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:42
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Tide posted:Take away the ipad mounted on the dash and that is a BMW interior. FTFY  Mr. Apollo posted:It can retract into the dash. I'm not sure if it can.  The B9 A4 is pretty underwhelming, and the rumor is that there won't be a single manual in Audi's lineup after 2016. I think my current car will the last Audi I buy.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:34
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Doesn't that 'ipad' retract into the dash when you're not using it? I thought that was generally how those designs worked. I can forgive it if that's the case, but otherwise that's a horrible design decision which will look incredibly stupid and dated in 5 years to the people who are totally into it right now.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:37
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still looks like a Passat with better seats to me and everything else just sort of thrown together. and how I am supposed to turn the iDrive thingie when my wrist is uncomfortably on top of that huge shifter? ...........and that chrome steering wheel piece.........meh  unfortunately BMW is going with the Ipads as well for future releases so that's something I think everyone will have to get used to. Keyser_Soze fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jun 29, 2015 |
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Jun 29, 2015 17:44
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If the ipad retracts, wouldn't it block the ac vents on the way down?
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Jun 29, 2015 17:49
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blugu64 posted:If the ipad retracts, wouldn't it block the ac vents on the way down? It'd have to swivel down 90deg, then pull in.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:53
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Honestly wish there were no LCD screens in dashboards but aw well
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Jun 29, 2015 18:09
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bull3964 posted:All the design considerations you've given are still there if they are physical gauges with the added complexity that that design is less flexible so any changes are going to be more time consuming and more costly. Coherent and user friendly design is hard, but that's not a digital problem. Digital is just a larger toolbox. It's a huge toolbox and that's the issue, you need a team of designers and a team of programmers as well as the guy that decides where things are located. It's more cash to get to an end result. There's no denying it could be an amazing upgrade in terms of functionality but money talks and companies try and cut corners... :/ It'll definitely happen though.
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Jun 29, 2015 18:25
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I don't understand all this hate about 'ipads on the dash'. What exactly is so terrible about it?
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Jun 29, 2015 18:42
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88h88 posted:
I can't wait until all controls are handled through digital interface, like the Tesla Model S has. Eventually I can see aftermarket layouts and upgradeable interfaces much like we have with smartphones. Sick of your radio, download a new one! Want a different skin for the HVAC controls, get the replica 1964 Mustang one! It'll be like Winamp but for your car!
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Jun 29, 2015 18:44
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corn in the fridge posted:I don't understand all this hate about 'ipads on the dash'. What exactly is so terrible about it? Personally, I don't like that we spend lots of money telling people not to text on a little screen, then put slightly larger screens in the dashboard of the car. A distraction is a distraction. I suppose there is also some concern about these things working in 10 years. A button is fairly easy to fix, but would you want to use a 10 year old cell phone, or even a first gen iphone?
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Jun 29, 2015 19:02
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TrinityOfDeath posted:Personally, I don't like that we spend lots of money telling people not to text on a little screen, then put slightly larger screens in the dashboard of the car. A distraction is a distraction. As far as car manufacturers are concerned, cars still being on the road after 10 years is a bug, not a feature.
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Jun 29, 2015 19:07
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Your are far more likely to be able to replace a screen in 10 years than some fiddly mechanical gauges. Don't tell me those don't break either because that's bullshit. Screens can also allow for FEWER distractions than current gauges.
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Jun 29, 2015 19:09
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CornHolio posted:I can't wait until all controls are handled through digital interface, like the Tesla Model S has. This is pretty bad to use in real life though, I hope the other manufacturers aspire to something better.
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Jun 29, 2015 19:25
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LCDs capable of withstanding all manner of environmental conditions in a car for decades and with the necessary performance are actually quite expensive. It's not like a crappy TV or evem cell phone that's eexpected to last a few years tops.CornHolio posted:I can't wait until all controls are handled through digital interface, like the Tesla Model S has. Spoken like someone whos never owned a Tesla. It sucks and is annoying. With older people or when you first get one it's downright dangerous The worst part is probably the HVAC controls that are on a popup menu with tiny buttons. Also annoying is the fact that you can't turn the radio off, only turn the volume down to zero OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jun 29, 2015 |
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Jun 29, 2015 19:27
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TrinityOfDeath posted:Personally, I don't like that we spend lots of money telling people not to text on a little screen, then put slightly larger screens in the dashboard of the car. A distraction is a distraction. Yeah but you're not texting on the screen are you? It's surely not any more distracting than a normal radio and probably far more intuitive to use. It also probably doesn't require a lot of processing power to run the software and is only used when you're driving not constantly switched on like your phone so longevity probably won't be much of an issue. It's a completely different device than a phone or tablet and serves a similar yet completely seperate purpose, it's silly to draw conclusions between the two.
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Jun 29, 2015 19:29
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corn in the fridge posted:Yeah but you're not texting on the screen are you? It's surely not any more distracting than a normal radio and probably far more intuitive to use. It also probably doesn't require a lot of processing power to run the software and is only used when you're driving not constantly switched on like your phone so longevity probably won't be much of an issue. It's a completely different device than a phone or tablet and serves a similar yet completely seperate purpose, it's silly to draw conclusions between the two. It's far less intuitive to use because you can't just hit buttons by feel without looking, and after you hit a control you have to wait and keep watching it to see if it actually registered (and sometimes it just doesn't). Even on the Tesla the interface isn't very responsive and accidentally brushing the screen is annoying. Also there's the gorilla arm thing, which is a hundref times worse in a moving car while driving and when the interface designers love tiny buttons and mixing tabs and scrolling and random menus all with different interfaces You can use the wheel mounted controls for some things in the Tesla but not easily for hvac Also leaving your phone in sub-zero temps or unDer the baking sun will kill it pretty fast. And the display itself is not on all the time on a phone like it would be on a car. It must work in all conditions for decades, so they have to spend money to make them tough and reliable. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jun 29, 2015 |
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Jun 29, 2015 19:36
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bull3964 posted:Your are far more likely to be able to replace a screen in 10 years than some fiddly mechanical gauges. Don't tell me those don't break either because that's bullshit. Like everything else it'll be assembly replacement, not component. However with the fancy displays the assembly will cost a lot more then a few switchs. Worst case I can dremel out a hole in the dash and replace a broken switch with a .50 part from RadioShack.
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Jun 29, 2015 19:48
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corn in the fridge posted:I don't understand all this hate about 'ipads on the dash'. What exactly is so terrible about it? I'm cool with the screens being in the dashboard, but the sitting-on-top thing just looks bad to me, and like was said already, is going to be a thing that dates cars. Give me some hud-like overlays on the windshield with sensors to tell me something is on the other side of a bush at an intersection or things that tell me the speeds of cars approaching so I know if I have enough space to merge or not. Suppose once that stuff becomes common place we'll have diverless cars anyway which means I won't need to know or see that because the computer will do it all for me.
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Jun 29, 2015 19:52
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KakerMix posted:I'm cool with the screens being in the dashboard, but the sitting-on-top thing just looks bad to me, and like was said already, is going to be a thing that dates cars. Huds are already a thing on luxury cars - hell Hyundai offers them. The reason they put giant screens on like that is in part to make them able to be hidden/removed for drivers that don't want them. Also since you must look at the screen to use it, you can't just hide it on the center stack but want to put it as high up as possible so the driver has the smallest distance to cover when they take their eyes off the road. Put too much trim around it and it'll start obscuring the view out front, so better to make it stick up from the rest of the dash. And brighter LCDs make it so you don't need as muCH of a hood on top, too. And don't worry we're a looong way away from self-driving cars. Though adaptive cruise control is pretty common now and is covenient for stop and go traffic on the highway. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jun 29, 2015 |
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Jun 29, 2015 19:59
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blugu64 posted:Worst case I can dremel out a hole in the dash and replace a broken switch with a .50 part from RadioShack. No, you can't First, because Radio Shack doesn't exist anymore Second, because what you are connecting to is probably going to a data-bus that has very specific requirements of what it wants in a switch to work properly. Besides all of that, I'm not talking about infotainment systems. I'm talking about the gauge cluster itself. No touch, no buttons, just the display instruments.
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Jun 29, 2015 20:15
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bull3964 posted:No, you can't The newer trucks i work on have switch banks which have all of 2 data bus wires plus power and earth to control 5 switches. Each switch will only perform a specific function. You can remove the switch and put it anywhere else in the truck and it will recognise it on the next ignition cycle.
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Jun 29, 2015 20:33
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warcake posted:The newer trucks i work on have switch banks which have all of 2 data bus wires plus power and earth to control 5 switches. Each switch will only perform a specific function. You can remove the switch and put it anywhere else in the truck and it will recognise it on the next ignition cycle. Yup, stuff like that simplifies wiring harnesses in vehicles significantly. It also reduces weight since there are fewer wires to run. But, that also means that some dumb toggle switch you get from an electronics parts house isn't going to work in the car.
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Jun 29, 2015 20:49
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Ban touch screens in cars, move all touchscreen functions to laser-projected HUD controlled with buttons on the steering wheel and/or dash. Boom.
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Jun 29, 2015 21:47
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Ineptus Mechanicus posted:Solution: replace all gauge clusters with Racepaks, and all switchgear with metal toggle switches. This is what I want. A race car. It's very tempting, particularly if I can get switches like this...  It's making me want to brush up on my electronics knowledge (which is zero).
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Jun 29, 2015 22:16
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DropShadow posted:I'm not sure if it can.
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Jun 29, 2015 22:44
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88h88 posted:This is what I want. A race car. It's very tempting, particularly if I can get switches like this...  Just a simple back and forth switch, but I was able to google a simple diagram and even though this is considered kindergarten stuff by more knowledgeable people in the field I felt like a drat king after hooking it up.
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Jun 30, 2015 01:31
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Mange Mite posted:LCDs capable of withstanding all manner of environmental conditions in a car for decades and with the necessary performance are actually quite expensive. It's not like a crappy TV or evem cell phone that's eexpected to last a few years tops. When I first rode in a Tesla I was terrified. Guy was constantly fiddling with the radio, HVAC, maps, etc and it so distracting in that car.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:05
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DropShadow posted:I'm not sure if it can. The screen on the S3 retracts, and there is a button to do it at any time. It seems weird that the S4 wouldn't do the same thing, but then again the current S3 is faster than the current S4 and I wouldn't be surprised if it's barely faster than the new S4 too. On the S3 the hiding screen is pretty slick IMO.
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Jun 30, 2015 06:26
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How the hell does the new 2015 Honda Fit still have drum brakes?
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Jun 30, 2015 13:47
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Coredump posted:How the hell does the new 2015 Honda Fit still have drum brakes? Front brakes do like 90% of the braking during normal road driving, the rear brakes are basically only there to make sure the car doesn't swap ends. It's also cheaper and easier to integrate the handbrake into rear drums, compared to rear discs. Ask me about having the right rear wheel lock up 100% while I was taking a left turn in a busy intersection, because the stupid drum-in-disc handbrake fell apart and jammed up due to 15 years of corrosion and lack of wear. With rear drum brakes, you avoid this issue as the handbrake shoes get used during normal braking, instead of only holding the car stationary.
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Jun 30, 2015 13:52
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Miatas, at least NBs, use the normal rear discs for the handbrake as well. Seems like a pretty simple and cheap setup. But yeah drums are probably still cheaper overall.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:03
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Coredump posted:How the hell does the new 2015 Honda Fit still have drum brakes? The base models on a lot of small cars have them, too - the Fiesta, Yaris, etc. They're cheaper to make and to maintain, the latter since the pads last a lot longer due to having more friction area. Apparently wear in particular has become a bigger concern these days since rear brakes get used more due to traction control and electronic brake control systems, and when the brake pads are small (as in small cars) they wear out a lot faster. Also those same computerized controls can help compensate for some of the weaknesses of drum brakes so the driver doesn't notice them as much. The higher power models of the Fiesta like the ST get 4-wheel discs, though, because when you uprate the engine you have to uprate everything else on the car, too. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 14:28
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I find these defense of rear drum brakes pretty funny since I know domestics have gotten poo poo on in the past for having rear drums.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:50
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