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Popular Thug Drink posted:so you're saying that you do have a superior ability to detect and see through conspiracies? and this is why you support gamergate? I think he's saying that he was born in the wrong generation.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:14
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afeelgoodpoop posted:Moral faults spell out future actions. in gamergate, zoe quinn is someone who pushed sjw feminist politics in her indie groupie on twitter. Like most radical feminist, some of her actions were morally suspect coming from someone preaching morality. The zoe post happens and now you have someone who by their own standards should be in jail for rape. Her moral failures in her politic pushing foreshadowed her moral failure at following the standards she pushes on other people. How many other feminists pushes turned into shitfest like this? like that rape case that was being pushed by a radical feminists journalist? Their personal moral failure foreshadows their ideological impotence. I have no idea what this post is supposed to mean, and its incoherence suggests to me that you should take a time out from posting.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:14
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Popular Thug Drink posted:this is a sort of interesting rationalization that allows you to believe that GG are not radical activists The #burgersandfries IRC that afeelgoodpoop joins is one of the more radical parts, the name itself refers to meme that sprang up while shaming Zoe Quinn for her personal life business that the public had no right to know. I'd say that chat room is much more aligned with Twitter mob harassment campaigns than, say, r/KotakuInAction. The latter of which is more focused on the industry beat coverage angle, and isn't about organizing doxx campaigns or turf wars.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:14
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Disinterested posted:Your frustrations notwithstanding, you are still seeing ghosts where there aren't any. You have zero proof for what amounts only to a vague impression that there is a 'conspiracy' of some kind, when there are many other more plausible explanations, including explanations not injurious to your point of view. I'll never understand why GGers don't recognize the idea z list tech press really is just that loving dumb and inept at their jobs that they fall into LF thinking reporting is a bigger burn and indictment than their being an efficient anti GamerGate or whatever conspiracy.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:14
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Slanderer posted:But what about Free Speech? Last time I checked, pedophilia does not fall under free speech, as it is actively harmful. It is explicitly not protected speech and is prohibited under American law. This may differ for other countries -- I'm only familiar with American and Canadian societies. I am sorry for my deficiency. If, in this hypothetical example, one of the strongest advocates for Gamergate was outed as a pedophile, would that discredit Gamergate if they decided to defend that person on the basis of free speech? What if, in a lesser version of that scenario, Gamergate decided to give that person the benefit of the doubt and fight as hard as possible to prove that that person wasn't actually a pedophile? NutritiousSnack posted:Both do and it's extremely funny and sad. Gamer Gate in the free speech way and anti Gamer Gate in a "Our key members admit to being sexually aroused by real and cartoon children, but they are on our side and the sanaticy of feminist video game critics reputations must be protected." I think you follow me then. It's tribal identity, really: the ingroup must be believed and protected at all costs. Any accusations of them are automatically baseless, as they come from the Enemy. So overly tribalistic movements degenerate into protecting dangerous perverts.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:15
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Sharkie posted:But this is factually untrue though. There's centuries of thought and jurisprudence about censorship that you're unaware of, and so you fall back on a conspiracy to explain instead. right now, webster will justify the usage of the word censorship. Since you give off ideological vibes through this post, if you are a leftist you should know to respect the vulgarization of words by common users. What do common people use censorship for? TV shows not allowing boobies? they can if they want. its just sponsorship stopping them. Walmart making explicit versions of albums? that's not the government.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:15
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afeelgoodpoop posted:Moral faults spell out future actions. in gamergate, zoe quinn is someone who pushed sjw feminist politics in her indie groupie on twitter. Like most radical feminist, some of her actions were morally suspect coming from someone preaching morality. The zoe post happens and now you have someone who by their own standards should be in jail for rape. Her moral failures in her politic pushing foreshadowed her moral failure at following the standards she pushes on other people. How many other feminists pushes turned into shitfest like this? like that rape case that was being pushed by a radical feminists journalist? Their personal moral failure foreshadows their ideological impotence. It is worth noting, however, that if moral purity is a requirement for being heard on an issue in public, it is a test failed by everyone. By your logic, Martin Luther King should have shut the gently caress up because he plagiarised on a number of occasions and may well have cheated on his wife. You are guilty of the crime you accuse everyone else of - you're saying people should not be heard.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:17
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Brannock posted:I think you follow me then. It's tribal identity, really: the ingroup must be believed and protected at all costs. Any accusations of them are automatically baseless, as they come from the Enemy. So overly tribalistic movements degenerate into protecting dangerous perverts. Yeah and it's one of the few important lessons to be learned about this stupid loving thing.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:18
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Disinterested posted:I have no idea what this post is supposed to mean, and its incoherence suggests to me that you should take a time out from posting. Well I totally understood it. Maybe you should be the one taking a break, take your time to unpack your baggage and figure things out.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:18
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Third wave feminism is about as dumb as moving a GBS mock thread into DnD because of Ralp is a poo poo. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 30, 2015 04:18
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Disinterested posted:It is worth noting, however, that if moral purity is a requirement for being heard on an issue in public, it is a test failed by everyone. Not at all, because it didn't undermine his beliefs. How does beating your wife cancel out a belief in racial equality? That just makes him even more normal back then.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:18
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NutritiousSnack posted:TW3 was painfully stupid and simple. It argued from the point of reference of American/Western European centric worldview and not from loving Poland. When their was push back and talk of discussion to begin with, it was treated with hostility because it was part of a deeply held political belief of the writers with the additional filter of the internet to reinforce echo chambers. Everything from Gone Home, to Anita critiques, to Fez has always been sidelined way before GG because very few want to debate or discuss these things but retreat to places they receive positive reinforcement of their world views. TW2 was loaded with marketing material trying to show us just how hot Triss Merigold was and how we'd get to see her completely nude(and the game delivered several times.) I mean I guess you could say it's a Polish thing about being a man's game, and while TW3 had a lot of nudity itself it felt a lot more restrained about it. The criticism of TW3 for not having black people in it struck me as kinda odd, though. As long as this article generates outrage, people are going to write this kind of article.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:19
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Consider this: you suck. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 30, 2015 04:19
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afeelgoodpoop posted:Well I am a poor, and have been all my life. I've never had schooling out of high school so I'm very, very ignorant. I don't think getting weirded out about people pushing specific conclusions about events is dumb. Like I said when I first started posting today, a few posters early on said "it isn't censorship unless the government does it" but that is bullshit. EVERYONE knows its bullshit. it was started by anti ggers early on but for some reason people legitimately, all the way to the past few days in this thread felt they needed to push an empty, i can't even call it a half truth. it's like a quarter truth maybe. Haha, is this for real? Quick, without looking it up on Google, what does the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution actually say? Aaaaand... Go!
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Jun 30, 2015 04:21
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afeelgoodpoop posted:right now, webster will justify the usage of the word censorship. Since you give off ideological vibes through this post, if you are a leftist you should know to respect the vulgarization of words by common users. What do common people use censorship for? The problem with a hugely inclusive notion of censorship is that you end up with the problem that a game developer not making a japanese rape sim is self-censoring for not making that particular kind of game.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:21
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Disinterested posted:It is worth noting, however, that if moral purity is a requirement for being heard on an issue in public, it is a test failed by everyone. Except feelgoodpoop's point is that she was stumping for a specific cause and turned out to be extremely hypocritical about her cause in the way she lived her life. Kind of like someone who is staunchly anti-homosexual, yet has constant gay sex. Now doing something immoral isn't something that means someone should shut up, but if it relates to the very thing you stand for you need to be called out for being a hypocrite. Like if Martin Luther King turned out to be a racist, that would be something people would find worth carrying about.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:24
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Shadoer posted:Except feelgoodpoop's point is that she was stumping for a specific cause and turned out to be extremely hypocritical about her cause in the way she lived her life. Kind of like someone who is staunchly anti-homosexual, yet has constant gay sex. I honestly don't know anything about the women involved, nor do I care. All I care about is whether their arguments have substance. If they're hypocritical and lovely people, whatever, but using that as a tool to undermine an argument is bullshit, and I'm sure there are a great many skeletons to be found in the gamergate closet if that's going to be the game we all play. It has to be about the substance of the arguments, not about personalities, or the argument fails for being ad-hominem at the first hurdle.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:28
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Shadoer posted:Except feelgoodpoop's point is that she was stumping for a specific cause and turned out to be extremely hypocritical about her cause in the way she lived her life. Kind of like someone who is staunchly anti-homosexual, yet has constant gay sex. very few people are completely moral. everyone makes mistakes. if you dig hard enough into anyone's past, you will find somethat that will justify a preconditioned notion that this person is worthy of ridicule and attack it's far better to address the merits of someone's argument than to dig through someone's garbage until you dig up a half rotten rationalization, which you then have to reconfigure your ideological goals to use. otherwise nobody who doesn't already hate this person will take your arguments seriously, and you will look like an obsessive weirdo
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Jun 30, 2015 04:28
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Oh, Life on the outside ain't what it used to be. Y'know, the world's gone crazy, and it ain't safe on the streets. Well, it's a drag, I know, there's only one place to go. Baby, back where I come from, I'm comin' home. Oh, Life on the inside ain't what it used to be. Y'know, the kids have gone crazy, and they'll stick you for a slice of cheese. Oh, it's a drag, I know, there's only one place to go. Baby, back where I come from, I'm comin' home. (Hey, man. I got an idea. I know a way we can get outta here. You know that laundry room in Cell Block Four? Well, there's a tile that goes right through the floor. We'll be in Mexico in a week and a half, and we can just sit back and laugh.) Oh, yeah! (x4) Yeah! (x7) Well, lights out, baby. Yeah, it looks like the end for me. Last dance comin', it's the chicken and the rice and beans. Well, it's a drag, I know, but everybody's gotta go. They're waitin' for me down below, I'm comin' home. Oh, yeah, I'm comin' home. (x3)
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Jun 30, 2015 04:29
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afeelgoodpoop posted:That just makes him even more normal back then.  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 30, 2015 04:31
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afeelgoodpoop posted:right now, webster will justify the usage of the word censorship. Since you give off ideological vibes through this post, if you are a leftist you should know to respect the vulgarization of words by common users. What do common people use censorship for?
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Jun 30, 2015 04:31
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Sharkie posted:It's okay to not know things, but again, there's more written about censorship than you could read in a lifetime, and you're putting that aside to assert your mistaken definition is the correct one because it's a common mistake. Free speech is an incredibly complex philosophical issue for real.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:34
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Sharkie posted:It's okay to not know things, but again, there's more written about censorship than you could read in a lifetime, and you're putting that aside to assert your mistaken definition is the correct one because it's a common mistake. Like I said, anyone who would search for the definition of censorship online right now will see it justifies GGs usage of the word. academic use of it is not relevant. afeelgoodpoop fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 04:36
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Disinterested posted:I honestly don't know anything about the women involved, nor do I care. All I care about is whether their arguments have substance. Popular Thug Drink posted:very few people are completely moral. everyone makes mistakes. if you dig hard enough into anyone's past, you will find somethat that will justify a preconditioned notion that this person is worthy of ridicule and attack Exactly. At most it's a point that she's a hypocrite and she can't live up the the standard she set for others, but it doesn't invalidate the points she made and it's far better to argue someone on the merits of their arguments. You know, instead of casually dismissing gamers as naturally misogynistic, or that because there are assholes using the brand to cover their lovely activities as proof that all gamergate arguments are invalidated, or if people making the arguments are sad shut ins.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:36
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smash mouth eat teh eggs
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Jun 30, 2015 04:38
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Panzeh posted:The criticism of TW3 for not having black people in it struck me as kinda odd, though. It wasn't just odd, it was nationalist as hell. Confusing Slavic peoples in their home country who literally are 99.9% white, face real discrimination in Western Europe and will never meet a black person in their life, with American/UK media creators that have a large percentage of PoC in their population but don't include them in media is not only stupid but outright detrimental to increasing diversity. When they facing that accusation they ran or cried about GamerGate.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:41
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do you people realize how loving stupid you all are? please stop posting itt holy poo poo this thread makes israel v palestine threads look like classic lit threads
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Jun 30, 2015 04:41
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Shadoer posted:You know, instead of casually dismissing gamers as naturally misogynistic, or that because there are assholes using the brand to cover their lovely activities as proof that all gamergate arguments are invalidated, or if people making the arguments are sad shut ins. This attempt at a reversal fails by simple virtue of the fact that the argument at issue is precisely whether gamer culture is misogynistic.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:41
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Disinterested posted:I honestly don't know anything about the women involved, nor do I care. All I care about is whether their arguments have substance. the entirety of gamer gate both pro and anti is based on 'ad-hominem'
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Jun 30, 2015 04:42
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Shadoer posted:You know, instead of casually dismissing gamers as naturally misogynistic, or that because there are assholes using the brand to cover their lovely activities as proof that all gamergate arguments are invalidated, or if people making the arguments are sad shut ins. there's really not much else to do with gamergaters because they don't advance any valid points. all they have is conspiracy theories and targets. since their stated goals are demonstrably absurd, we can move past that and get right in to the mockery the only people who don't see gamergate as an organized attempt to silence women are gamergaters themselves
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Jun 30, 2015 04:42
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Sharkie posted:It's okay to not know things, but again, there's more written about censorship than you could read in a lifetime, and you're putting that aside to assert your mistaken definition is the correct one because it's a common mistake. Your strawman version was just as dumb. Disinterested posted:This attempt at a reversal fails by simple virtue of the fact that the argument at issue is precisely whether gamer culture is misogynistic. Likewise so is this. Both topics are valid if you are actually going to discuss this poo poo.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:44
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Disinterested posted:Free speech is an incredibly complex philosophical issue for real. It really is. You can argue it only applies to the government (which is mainstream), that it needs to be a value in society should uphold and strive towards (which is debatable, although I support it), and that nothing should ever be censored for whatever reason. (an argument for it, but it's pretty extreme) Gamergate has taken the position that it is a value and an ethic that people and industries should uphold. The opponents have taken the position that it's only applicable to the governments, and even as far as it's morally good to censor things that promote undesirable elements in our society, like sexism and violence. That is a debate I'm really interested in and is far more intellectual, but alas people keep going back to debating if gamergate is a misogynist conspiracy or not.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:44
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Morkies posted:the entirety of gamer gate both pro and anti is based on 'ad-hominem' NutritiousSnack posted:Likewise so is this. Both topics are valid if you are actually going to discuss this poo poo. You don't know what ad-hom means. If I say 'you are a misogynist' that is not ad-hominem per se. If I say 'you are wrong about your view on the taxation of derivatives because you are a misogynist' that is ad hom. So if I assert 'you are a misogynist' and then give examples of your misogynistic behaviour, I am making a perfectly valid non ad-hom argument. If you retort by saying 'aha, but you have been hypocritical!', that may undermine my moral standing, but that does not undermine the validity of the claim that you are a misogynist, and is an ad-hominem attack. It's very simple. If it's just about who's more morally pure, then it's a popularity contest between figures nobody gives a poo poo about, but if it is let's stop pretending there's anything more than gossip going on. Disinterested fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 04:45
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The best thing to come from Gamergate was lieutenant Gamergate, an ant dentist on adventure time.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:45
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Morkies posted:do you people realize how loving stupid you all are? I agree with the opinions on this page and the one before possibly. Now I understand that despite two out of wedlock pregnancies that Bristol Palin should continue to be paid for abstinence only sex education speeches because the actions of the speaker need be wholly divorced from their words.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:45
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Shadoer posted:Gamergate has taken the position that it is a value and an ethic that people and industries should uphold. The opponents have taken the position that it's only applicable to the governments, and even as far as it's morally good to censor things that promote undesirable elements in our society, like sexism and violence. if gamergaters believe in free speech, why are they trying to hound certain people to the point that they quit participating in public discussion?
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Jun 30, 2015 04:45
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Shadoer posted:but alas people keep going back to debating if gamergate is a misogynist conspiracy or not. But that's not really a debate because it undeniably is. Well, not so much a conspiracy, at least not in the insane lizard-government variety, but it definitely was formed with hatred for women at it's very core and that hasn't changed because no one on the GamerGate side is the least bit interested in changing it, just in hiding it. And a lot of times they aren't even interested in that.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:50
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Disinterested posted:If they're hypocritical and lovely people, whatever, but using that as a tool to undermine an argument is bullshit, and I'm sure there are a great many skeletons to be found in the gamergate closet if that's going to be the game we all play. That's what the entire arguments of both sides are.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:51
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Who What Now posted:But that's not really a debate because it undeniably is. Well, not so much a conspiracy, at least not in the insane lizard-government variety, but it definitely was formed with hatred for women at it's very core and that hasn't changed because no one on the GamerGate side is the least bit interested in changing it, just in hiding it. And a lot of times they aren't even interested in that. Where have you gotten this information from? littlegreenfootballs? the marysue?
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Jun 30, 2015 04:52
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NutritiousSnack posted:That's what the entire arguments of both sides are. I refer you to my more recent post.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:53
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