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The book never refers to him speaking for the Maiar.
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Jun 19, 2015 23:14
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You're probably conflating that with the description of Dior having the qualities of Elves, Men, and Maiar in his face.
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Jun 20, 2015 02:39
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Right, that's it. I really thought that passage referred to Earendil, weird.
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Jun 20, 2015 16:42
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Nessus posted:My take is it was a dwarven effort to imitate the Silmarils. It did not, of course, reach the same peak, but it was still real loving good. I thought they found it in the mountain, or is that just from the film? I almost wanted to think there's one in every mountain and it really is the smoking heart of the mountain but now I'm mixing up world of Warcraft (the true spiritual successor to Tolkien) so take that as you will
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Jun 20, 2015 17:30
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anilEhilated posted:edit: I also seem to remember that Luthien didn't give up her elvish ancestry - she talked Mandos into giving her and Beren a second life and I think they didn't age or anything.
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Jun 20, 2015 18:14
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concerned mom posted:I thought they found it in the mountain, or is that just from the film? They did find it in the mountain.
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Jun 20, 2015 18:25
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computer parts posted:They did find it in the mountain.
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Jun 21, 2015 09:45
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Nessus posted:You would think they might have perhaps cut it, that's what's typically done with gems...
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Jun 21, 2015 17:15
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Oracle posted:I think the idea was it was so bitchin' and perfect when they found it that they didn't want to. But the Arkenstone was cut, I thought? That's why all the
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Jun 24, 2015 17:34
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Thrain and Thorin could not have held the Arkenstone if it was a silmaril. Or Meadros' Silmaril.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:31
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I like to think the arkenstone was a practice piece of Feanor's. Like one of Da Vinci's charcoal sketches.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:33
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I like to think the arkenstone was a practice piece of Feanor's. Like one of Da Vinci's charcoal sketches. That is what I have thought as well - though how do you square the circle of it being embedded in the bowels of the Lonely Mountain? Maybe a result of the War of Wrath?
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Jun 24, 2015 21:56
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Morgoth stole it from Formenos, Ungoliant ate it; pooped out in beleriland, picked up by dwarf going east, lost in bottom of lonely mountain Or gift from Felgund to first men. Stolen by easterners. Brought east; lost in mountain.
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Jun 24, 2015 22:13
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euphronius posted:Morgoth stole it from Formenos, Ungoliant ate it; pooped out in beleriland, picked up by dwarf going east, lost in bottom of lonely mountain "Of the Excrement of Ungoliant"
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Jun 24, 2015 22:18
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concerned mom posted:I thought they found it in the mountain, or is that just from the film? This is my new cannon. Literally the heart of a mountain, mountains as semi-alive aspects of Arda, their sheer physical presence on the landscape giving them a life of their own.
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Jun 25, 2015 00:14
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It's the Lonely Mountain because the Dwarves ripped out its heart, and therefore its ability to love.
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Jun 25, 2015 03:02
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Just in case anyone hasn't seen this yet: The Most Metal Deaths in Middle-earth, Ranked
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Jun 25, 2015 07:50
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Runcible Cat posted:Just in case anyone hasn't seen this yet: That writer is totally wrong about Glorfindel. They aren't the same Glorfindel.
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Jun 25, 2015 08:28
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concerned mom posted:That writer is totally wrong about Glorfindel. They aren't the same Glorfindel. I think they are. Also that is a good list. Fingolfin has the most metal death by far.
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Jun 25, 2015 11:32
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IIRC there was some evidence for both, but Tolkien died before he could clarify the issue.
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Jun 25, 2015 11:36
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Quibble about Fingolfin: he didn't get smashed with Grond, he loving tripped and Morgoth stepped on him. I think that regrettably loses him some metal points (which is probably why the author elided that bit).
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Jun 25, 2015 12:44
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Speaking of, thanks for reminding me to check: Better Myths has more silmarillion updates http://bettermyths.com/category/mythos/silmarillion/ Aaawwwwww yeeeeeeeeaaaahhh
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Jun 25, 2015 12:55
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He tripped in a crater created by Grond smashes which is metal.
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Jun 25, 2015 15:04
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Runcible Cat posted:Just in case anyone hasn't seen this yet: I would have included Alcagon the Black: turning back the armies of Valinor and then getting lasered by the Morning Star until your corpse crushes a mountain range is pretty loving metal. EDIT: Also, didn't the Simaril burn out Luthien so that she died prematurely? I'd bump her up the ranks for that. SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jun 25, 2015 |
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Jun 25, 2015 15:13
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Also I don't think he's quite right in characterizing the movie's treatment of the Sauron/Isildur confrontation as being materially different from the text. My reading was that Sauron killed both Gil-galad and Elendil, and Elendil broke Narsil under him; but Isildur picked up the shards and cut the Ring off Sauron, and that act was what destroyed Sauron's physical form. I had always pictured somehow that Isildur had fought Sauron to his knees and he cut the Ring off him forcibly; but the movie's interpretation immediately made me go "Oh! That makes a lot more sense." But in either case saying Elendil got stripped of his kill by Peter Jackson sounds wrong.
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Jun 25, 2015 15:30
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SirPhoebos posted:
Yes good memory. It was after she came back as a human and the Silmaril was put in the Naufilgir or the Dwarves Necklace I can never spell it. poo poo I only remember that because I read it like last week.
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Jun 25, 2015 15:35
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Data Graham posted:Also I don't think he's quite right in characterizing the movie's treatment of the Sauron/Isildur confrontation as being materially different from the text. My reading was that Sauron killed both Gil-galad and Elendil, and Elendil broke Narsil under him; but Isildur picked up the shards and cut the Ring off Sauron, and that act was what destroyed Sauron's physical form. I had always pictured somehow that Isildur had fought Sauron to his knees and he cut the Ring off him forcibly; but the movie's interpretation immediately made me go "Oh! That makes a lot more sense." But in either case saying Elendil got stripped of his kill by Peter Jackson sounds wrong. From my reading, it sounded more like Elendil and Gil-Galad did most of the heavy lifting in bringing down Sauron, and Isildur 'finished' the fight by cutting the Ring from his finger. To use the WoW comparison everyone is so fond of, I pictured it like a raid fight where your Main Tank and lead DPS go down when the boss is at .05% health-as long as everyone keeps their poo poo together you can still clear the boss. And for the most part the Last Alliance did (and then Isildur then rolled Need and the guild fractured from the drama and this is where the analogy break down).
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Jun 25, 2015 15:45
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Someone in the comments pointed out that Ar-Pharazon had a pretty metal death as well: sailed to war against the Valar but stopped when God himself stepped in and reshaped the whole loving world, burying Ar-Pharazon and his army under the earth until the Last Battle.
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Jun 25, 2015 16:26
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Radio! posted:Someone in the comments pointed out that Ar-Pharazon had a pretty metal death as well: sailed to war against the Valar but stopped when God himself stepped in and reshaped the whole loving world, burying Ar-Pharazon and his army under the earth until the Last Battle. Actually I was wondering, since Tolkein dropped the whole Last Battle thing from the mythology, is Ar-Pharazon and crew just stuck there permanently then?
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Jun 25, 2015 16:50
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SirPhoebos posted:Actually I was wondering, since Tolkein dropped the whole Last Battle thing from the mythology, is Ar-Pharazon and crew just stuck there permanently then? I don't think they survived. 
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Jun 25, 2015 17:02
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Sheikh Djibouti posted:"Of the Excrement of Ungoliant" The lost chapter of the Silmarillion.
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Jun 25, 2015 17:03
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Runcible Cat posted:Just in case anyone hasn't seen this yet: This used to be my desktop wallpaper for about a year in college because of how metal I though Fingolfin was.  There is an entire metal album about the Silmarillion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRdBwXslqbA This is about Fingolfin vs Morgoth Any video in the "up next" section that has the same picture as the linked video is part of the Silmarillion story. They turned their album into a musical of the book - pretty great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoyToHOWSV8 Another goodie. Thunder Moose fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jun 25, 2015 |
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Jun 25, 2015 17:09
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How Tolkien is metal though?
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Jun 25, 2015 17:29
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There's a lot of Tolkien metal. Sometimes even taking pretty weird references. Nightfall in Middle-Earth is genuinely great, though. You can tell they really loved the source material. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jun 25, 2015 |
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Jun 25, 2015 18:06
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Metal, as an aesthetic, is what you get if you combine Tolkien and Loudness.
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Jun 25, 2015 21:31
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Was the Arkenstone supposed to be a device to illustrate the base desire of Dwarves or was it itself an item with a corruptible influence (not unlike the ring?) In otherwords was the lust Thorin had completely innate or did the stone play a part? Anyone know? Obviously the movie suggests the latter but from the book I am inclined towards the former.
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Jun 27, 2015 06:23
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Thunder Moose posted:Was the Arkenstone supposed to be a device to illustrate the base desire of Dwarves or was it itself an item with a corruptible influence (not unlike the ring?) In the film it's both, really. The Arkenstone represents the Divine Right of Kings. Thorin's entire quest is to reclaim it so he can lead the Dwarves to battle and overthrow the Usurper, etc. In a way, it's very similar to the Iron Throne in Game of Thrones. The throne itself isn't literally a corrupting influence but it is the reason why so many people die and so many others go off to war. In the Hobbit films the Arkenstone is a combination of the Iron Throne and the One Ring.
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Jun 27, 2015 06:34
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Exactly what species did Morgoth corrupt to make the dragons and drakes of M.E.? edit: this is also not the best place to ask given its a movie question but in the Hobbit was Thrandiul's brief moment of anger towards Thorin wherein he shows his serious facial wounds a reflection of his elvish soul being "scarred" by the great wars of his past? Not sure what PJ was going for there. Thunder Moose fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 05:10
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His scars were from fighting dragons from the north. He says something like "you're not the only one who knows the threat of dragons" as he flashes the scars. And the dragons came from who know where. Big wormy things. Then he put wings on them.
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Jun 30, 2015 06:34
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Thunder Moose posted:Exactly what species did Morgoth corrupt to make the dragons and drakes of M.E.? I don't think there's any definitive answer for your first question. The precise origin of Dragons, Orcs, Trolls, Fell-Beasts, etc were never pinned down. Even the stuff in Silmarillion is just what the Elves think. I thought Thranduil's scars and dialog in The Hobbit movies were simply meant to indicate that he'd been on the bad side of a run-in with a Dragon at some point in the past, meant to justify why he refused to go up against Smaug in Erebor.
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Jun 30, 2015 06:34
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