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natetimm posted:Is it truly so surprising that dual echo chambers of Twitter users find each others posts so terrible? Internet hatred is not the suprising part, the suprising part is that internet hatred appears to be the majority of gamergate's visible motivation and claimed successes.
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Jun 30, 2015 06:45
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Popular Thug Drink posted:It very much appears as though harrasing SJWs is one of the central pillars of gamergate, and perhaps the most important one, given how often the topic of conversation goes back to discussing what a bad person Quinn is. Nobody here brings up Quinn except the people critical of GG. Go back and look. If you're going to steer the discussion in that direction, you can't condemn people for talking about it. This is the same way it works on Twitter as well. AGG invokes her name over and over until someone finally agrees to talk to them about it and then that person is instantly demonized for talking about it. It's a tired, dumb tactic. Do you guys want to talk about her nor not? Because I can assure you most people sympathetic to GG are over it and only humoring your mostly inauthentic questions at this point.
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Jun 30, 2015 06:47
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sick trigger posted:You keep stating this and it keeps becoming harder and harder to believe I disagree with much of the poo poo he says here, but it's actually easier. When people go from "GG chased Zoe from her house" to "Okay it's probably not true, but they got her boyfriend to lose a job offer" to "Okay, I guess not but how does him not having a job benefit games journalism" when that had nothing to do with "Did GG harass Zoe to the point of blank".
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Jun 30, 2015 06:47
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Unfunny Poster posted:I don't think anyone said it was illegal. I certainly didn't, but I am beginning to see how you may be confused by who said what. I'm not a lawyer, but I highly doubt that. Maybe if you posted the dox along with an instruction to send the person threats or do whatever, it might count as incitement, but I doubt that just posting it (assuming that you obtained the information legally) would make you liable for anything. At least in the US, the current standard for an incitement charge is that it must be reasonably interpreted as likely to provoke "imminent lawless action." Popular Thug Drink posted:It very much appears as though harrasing SJWs is one of the central pillars of gamergate, and perhaps the most important one, given how often the topic of conversation goes back to discussing what a bad person Quinn is. I've been spending far more time than is healthy watching GG forums since October, and I can testify that on those forums, there haven't been any popular threads about Quinn since the Boston Magazine story, and before that nobody had talked about her since the SVU episode when her Tweets in reaction to that episode got passed around a bit. Before the SVU episode, I can't recall any major threads bringing her up since December at the latest. She's old news.
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Jun 30, 2015 06:49
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NutritiousSnack posted:I disagree with much of the poo poo he says here, but it's actually easier. When people go from "GG chased Zoe from her house" to "Okay it's probably not true, but they got her boyfriend to lose a job offer" to "Okay, I guess not but how does him not having a job benefit games journalism" when that had nothing to do with "Did GG harass Zoe to the point of blank". It's obvious that GG did chase Quinn from her house, because all attempts to prove she was actually a liar have been laughably inadequate.
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Jun 30, 2015 06:49
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Popular Thug Drink posted:It's obvious that GG did chase Quinn from her house, because all attempts to prove she was actually a liar have been laughably inadequate. It's pretty obvious that your standard of proof is "anything that conflicts my inner narrative is false".
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Jun 30, 2015 06:50
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INH5 posted:I'm not a lawyer, but I highly doubt that. Maybe if you posted the dox along with an instruction to send the person threats or do whatever, it might count as incitement, but I doubt that just posting it (assuming that you obtained the information legally) would make you liable for anything. At least in the US, the current standard for an incitement charge is that it must be reasonably interpreted as likely to provoke "imminent lawless action." Possibly, though I would assume a competent lawyer could argue the "incitement" angle.
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Jun 30, 2015 06:52
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Popular Thug Drink posted:It's obvious that GG did chase Quinn from her house, because all attempts to prove she was actually a liar have been laughably inadequate. She went on a planned vacation and it's funny your trying this again. Like I have no doubt she got real death threats or harassment, but come on at this point. At least with Anita there is something how it has effected her.
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Jun 30, 2015 06:52
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NutritiousSnack posted:She went on a planned vacation and it's funny your trying this again. I'd ask you to prove it, but it seems obvious you cannot. I would think there would be a better accepted theory than "she went on vacation for numerous months coincidentally at the same time as she was recieving a huge volume of anonymous threats" It's about the same level of logic and reasoning that most of gamergate seems to be able to squeeze out: very little. For the nucleus of an 'ethical' group, this seems strangely and transparently hostile.
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Jun 30, 2015 06:55
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Unfunny Poster posted:Possibly, though I would assume a competent lawyer could argue the "incitement" angle. No. Like don't take my word for it, tweet it at Popehat and he might mock the poo poo out of you and get offended at the suggestion, but he'll give a legal lowdown on why not. He's also far, far from Pro GamerGate and you can read some sick burns he does to GG clowns on that account too.
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Jun 30, 2015 06:55
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Popular Thug Drink posted:I'd ask you to prove it, but it seems obvious you cannot. Someone already posted that and you ignored it. She mentioned on twitter before GG that she was leaving that month for vacation for a similar amount of time as she did. Maybe she still did, but man that's one hell of a coincidence.
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Jun 30, 2015 06:57
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Dapper_Swindler posted:While i actualy do feel bad for quinn, her boyfriend is giant dickhead. Alex Lifschitz burned his career in the industry with poo poo like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWw7LwIYHbA This idiot worked as an intern on "How to train your dragon", "Thor: God of Thunder", "Kinect Rush" and "Fallout: New Vegas" and now he likes to pretend that he was somebody. Dapper_Swindler posted:Did he? I only saw him break GTAv then gurgle about how his Gf game was the future or some poo poo. can i see the tweets? natetimm posted:Just look for Alex Lifschitz on Twitter. It's like a Goofus-level display on how to gently caress up your life via social media. natetimm posted:His job getting cancelled is completely the result of his own dumbass self being the epitome of a Twitter narcissist and spoiled idiot. He organized the destruction of games he felt offensive for political reasons like some sort of book burning, rants like a toxic retard all over Twitter, and then wonders why he can't get a job in gaming. He's one of the poster-children for gamergate being Luigi doing nothing and still somehow winning. Unfunny Poster posted:That job being cancelled, because he was "too hot to hire", took place after those involved in GamerGate targeted and harassed his girlfriend though. Unfunny Poster posted:You're not really explaining how Alex Lifshitz not having a job in game development helps improve the ethical practices of journalists working at Kotaku, Polygon, etc. and seem more to focus on express disdain towards an individual which is what most people are saying GamerGate is about. 1) He's Quinn's boyfriend 2) He antagonized gamergate 3) He broke his used copy of GTA while praising Quinn's Depression Quest in a presentation So he's intimately involved with Literally Who (target) #1 and he's antagonized and taunted and "slandered the good name of our movement" and proven that his development experience would be useless because he trashed an object of veneration and praised an object of desecration. He represents everything wrong with game development anyway, so no loss. See: This seems to match pretty well the patterns of tribalism we've been talking about. He has demonstrated in several ways he is not one of the tribe, and is in fact on the enemy's side, therefore he will be opposed. He's an enemy. He is not one of us. This is self-reinforcing. What does it have to do with any ostensible goals regarding games journalism? It doesn't have to. natetimm posted:I have the same opinion in regards to her as you do in regards to doxxing and GG: It's generally bad but I'm much less sympathetic when it happens to people who have a reputation for being lovely in the first place. Assepoester fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 06:58
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NutritiousSnack posted:Someone already posted that and you ignored it. She mentioned on twitter before GG that she was leaving that month for vacation for a similar amount of time as she did. Maybe she still did, but man that's one hell of a coincidence. I didn't ignore it. I quoted that post, and pointed out how it doesn't support the original claim. You can go back two pages and see that you are incorrect. It was just over an hour ago, that I quoted that post and replied to it. This just further demonstrates the odd and stumbling fixation on Quinn's alleged crimes, and the desire to turn her into some kind of monster, which will apparently advance ethics in games journalism any day now.
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Jun 30, 2015 06:59
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Popular Thug Drink posted:I'd ask you to prove it, but it seems obvious you cannot. I would think there would be a better accepted theory than "she went on vacation for numerous months coincidentally at the same time as she was recieving a huge volume of anonymous threats" Everything everyone is claiming about GG, from the harassment, to the vacation, to leaving their homes, every single thing has the same evidence - tweets. I can't see how you'd discount them in one case but not another. It's absolutely the same evidence all around.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:01
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Popular Thug Drink posted:This just further demonstrates the odd fixation on Quinn, and the desire to turn her into some kind of monster, which will apparently advance ethics in games journalism any day now. How does you focusing on arguing about how much Quinn has suffered demonstrate an odd fixation on the part of anyone here? Half the time someone brings something unrelated up, its met with a non-sequitur "But what does this have to do with Zoe Quinn?"
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Jun 30, 2015 07:02
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The Droid posted:How does you focusing on arguing about how much Quinn has suffered demonstrate an odd fixation on the part of anyone here? Half the time someone brings something unrelated up, its met with a non-sequitur "But what does this have to do with Zoe Quinn?" Quinn's harassment was the foundational aspect of gamergate, and looking at the way she was mobbed unfairly is indicative of gamergate's general attitudes and motivations. Generally when one is examing a movement or phenomena, it is often helpful to look at the event which triggered the rise of that movement to interpret common trends and behaviors.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:05
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Cardboard Box A posted:The key seems to be The key is that has nothing to do with what anyone said. The argument they made was his unprofessional behavior cost him a job opportunity and that somehow being lined to GamerGate. Being well known for being unable to break a game disk with your hands and going on a rant against AAA publishers and then hoping to a job from one, while spewing poo poo on twitter to possibly remind them of this is going to hurt employment opportunities .
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Jun 30, 2015 07:07
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Quinn's harassment was the foundational aspect of gamergate, and looking at the way she was mobbed unfairly is indicative of gamergate's general attitudes and motivations. Gamer Gate actually started with Doritos Pope and dozen other things that built animosity between gaming sites and gamers.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:09
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Quinn's harassment was the foundational aspect of gamergate, and looking at the way she was mobbed unfairly is indicative of gamergate's general attitudes and motivations. Quinns harassment was one step of many that led to GG, and attempting to lie the blame solely at that location is being deliberately misleading. GG is the result of years of resentment between the gaming press and their audience, it just happened to spill over in a way this time that the press believed they could beat back down with identity politics and holding up the right victims. They were wrong.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:09
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NutritiousSnack posted:Gamer Gate actually started with Doritos Pope and dozen other things that built animosity between gaming sites and gamers. I mean if you're willing to include the previous 25 years of gaming media as "starting" Gamersgate, I guess that's technically true.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:10
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It's sort of like how WW1 and WW2 are both really just the same war with a break in between. GG is the continuation of of that animosity between two sides that's been going on for years, they're just using the weapons of today to fight it instead of yesterday.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:12
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natetimm posted:Nobody here brings up Quinn except the people critical of GG. Go back and look. If you're going to steer the discussion in that direction, you can't condemn people for talking about it. This is the same way it works on Twitter as well. AGG invokes her name over and over until someone finally agrees to talk to them about it and then that person is instantly demonized for talking about it. It's a tired, dumb tactic. Do you guys want to talk about her nor not? Because I can assure you most people sympathetic to GG are over it and only humoring your mostly inauthentic questions at this point. INH5 posted:I've been spending far more time than is healthy watching GG forums since October, and I can testify that on those forums, there haven't been any popular threads about Quinn since the Boston Magazine story, and before that nobody had talked about her since the SVU episode when her Tweets in reaction to that episode got passed around a bit. Before the SVU episode, I can't recall any major threads bringing her up since December at the latest. She's old news. The Droid posted:How does you focusing on arguing about how much Quinn has suffered demonstrate an odd fixation on the part of anyone here? Half the time someone brings something unrelated up, its met with a non-sequitur "But what does this have to do with Zoe Quinn?"
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Jun 30, 2015 07:13
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natetimm posted:Quinns harassment was one step of many that led to GG, and attempting to lie the blame solely at that location is being deliberately misleading. GG is the result of years of resentment between the gaming press and their audience, it just happened to spill over in a way this time that the press believed they could beat back down with identity politics and holding up the right victims. They were wrong. I think everyone but you agrees that, regardless of whatever simmering hostility may have arisen in the years and decades preceeding Zoe Quinn's harassment, that the gamergate hashtag was used for the first time explicitly in reference to Zoe Quinn's harassment. This all seems like retroactive justification to somehow pretend the label wasn't really about harassing women at all, it was about all these other things that people decided on weeks later. natetimm posted:It's sort of like how WW1 and WW2 are both really just the same war with a break in between. GG is the continuation of of that animosity between two sides that's been going on for years, they're just using the weapons of today to fight it instead of yesterday. So we can't point to the Invasion of Poland as a cause for World War 2 in Europe? We actually have to look back to Napoleonic days, or earlier? This doesn't make any sense.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:14
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computer parts posted:I mean if you're willing to include the previous 25 years of gaming media as "starting" Gamersgate, I guess that's technically true. I'm sure the fact the same people being involved GamerGate, the same places being involved (4chan /v/ and Reddit gaming subreddits) have nothing do with what's going on now.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:15
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Popular Thug Drink posted:I think everyone but you agrees that, regardless of whatever simmering hostility may have arisen in the years and decades preceeding Zoe Quinn's harassment, that the gamergate hashtag was used for the first time explicitly in reference to Zoe Quinn's harassment. This isn't even true. The GG tag was coined after the entire Streisand effect had started in regards to her situation. It's the mass-deletion and digging in of the press and taking shots at their own audience that spawned the tag.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:16
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natetimm posted:This isn't even true. The GG tag was coined after the entire Streisand effect had started in regards to her situation. It's the mass-deletion and digging in of the press and taking shots at their own audience that spawned the tag. There's a lot of blame shifting here, citing streisand effect and talking about censorship. I think you're completely unwilling to accept or even acknowledge the roots of gamergate as a campaign to silence female game developers.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:18
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Cardboard Box A posted:Is the contention at this point that the hashtag gamergate movement has matured enough to the point that targeting "lightning rod" figures like Quinn is no longer a worry, and that all such previous activity should be expunged from the permanent record or remain forever sealed, like some sort of juvenile record, but in internet time? My only complaint is that if you want to talk about her and my opinion of her and why I don't totally buy her story, don't then turn around and make accusations of some unhealthy sort of fascination because I have an opinion. There's no doubt that her situation is linked to GG, but pretending like everyone involved has this massive hate boner for her and obsesses over her just isn't true. If you want to debate and discuss Zoe Quinn's situation, fine, but using the fact that people are willing to discuss it with you as some sort of cudgel is dumb.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:19
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Popular Thug Drink posted:So we can't point to the Invasion of Poland as a cause for World War 2 in Europe? We actually have to look back to Napoleonic days, or earlier? This doesn't make any sense.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:19
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Popular Thug Drink posted:There's a lot of blame shifting here, citing streisand effect and talking about censorship. I think you're completely unwilling to accept or even acknowledge the roots of gamergate as a campaign to silence female game developers. Where do you even get that line from? The official line is slut-shaming, not a desire to chase female devs out of the industry. GG has a bunch of female devs in the movement itself. If you truly believe that statement, you haven't been paying attention at all. GG's objections are to political material and nepotism/cronyism/favoritism. There's no gender element to it except what the press desperately tries to pin on it.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:21
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NutritiousSnack posted:I'm sure the fact the same people being involved GamerGate, the same places being involved (4chan /v/ and Reddit gaming subreddits) have nothing do with what's going on now. I don't know what you're saying but the fact of the matter is that "Doritospope" et all were not significantly worse than the past few decades of video game media. And it's not like there was major outrage either; people ate up Halo 3 Mountain Dew and the like in 2007.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:21
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Popular Thug Drink posted:There's a lot of blame shifting here, citing streisand effect and talking about censorship. I think you're completely unwilling to accept or even acknowledge the roots of gamergate as a campaign to silence female game developers. You just want back to ignoring their were problems predating her, ignoring longer deeper roots . In fact you are confusing "roots" (the conditions that set up a situation) to what the trigger. Zoe Quinn might have triggered GamerGate but it was coming regardless because without her those tensions were still there.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:23
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Popular Thug Drink posted:There's a lot of blame shifting here, citing streisand effect and talking about censorship. I think you're completely unwilling to accept or even acknowledge the roots of gamergate as a campaign to silence female game developers. Meh, the "root" isn't really that important. Also stop talking about Zoe it's creepy.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:23
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NutritiousSnack posted:You just want back to ignoring their were problems predating her, ignoring longer deeper roots . In fact you are confusing "roots" (the conditions that set up a situation) to what the trigger. Zoe Quinn might have triggered GamerGate but it was coming regardless because without her those tensions were still there. So you're saying it was just a coincidence that this whole controversy exploded at the same time that these people were very concerned with Quinn's interaction with the exact subject of their anger? Powercrazy posted:Meh, the "root" isn't really that important. Also stop talking about Zoe it's creepy. I'm just trying to figure out why Quinn was the sustained target of so many people, why gamergate arose as a hashtag specifically in reference to her, and why she was held up as an example of lack of ethics in game journalism. It seems she was very important at the genesis of the movement but nobody really wants to talk about why, except to insist that she really did deserve it, honest.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:24
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computer parts posted:And it's not like there was major outrage either; people ate up Halo 3 Mountain Dew and the like in 2007. Thousands of internet memes, years of mockery by 4chan and reddit is major outrage. Just going "nah uh" doesn't change that. This started with that, continued with everything from Mass Effect 3 and Sim City, before leading into this.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:25
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Popular Thug Drink posted:So you're saying it was just a coincidence that this whole controversy exploded at the same time that these people were very concerned with Quinn's interaction with the exact subject of their anger? What people actually exploded over, just like they did again recently, was the mass-deletion of poo poo on reddit and the full-on blitz from the gaming press. The Zoe Quinn situation was a laughable internet board drama situation that would have blown over in a week if those things didn't happen.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:26
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NutritiousSnack posted:Thousands of internet memes, years of mockery by 4chan and reddit is major outrage. Just going "nah uh" doesn't change that. This started with that, continued with everything from Mass Effect 3 and Sim City, before leading into this. Literally the only meme I can think of off-hand that's even remotely related is that MW2 boycott group which says exactly the opposite message.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:27
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Popular Thug Drink posted:So you're saying it was just a coincidence that this whole controversy exploded at the same time that these people were very concerned with Quinn's interaction with the exact subject of their anger? They only cared or thought about Quinn when the Zoe Post dropped. Before 4chan was making threads raging at Kotaku and their bullshit, both preconceived and real.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:27
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natetimm posted:What people actually exploded over, just like they did again recently, was the mass-deletion of poo poo on reddit and the full-on blitz from the gaming press. The Zoe Quinn situation was a laughable internet board drama situation that would have blown over in a week if those things didn't happen. So the real problem wasn't that she was being harassed, but that the harassment was 'censored' by privately owned websites? NutritiousSnack posted:They only cared or thought about Quinn when the Zoe Post dropped. Before 4chan was making threads raging at Kotaku and their bullshit, both preconceived and real. So then why wasn't gamergate a whole thing before the Zoe Post?
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Jun 30, 2015 07:27
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natetimm posted:This isn't even true. The GG tag was coined after the entire Streisand effect had started in regards to her situation. It's the mass-deletion and digging in of the press and taking shots at their own audience that spawned the tag. So, what happened was a guy wrote a crazy E/N post about his ex and posted it all over the place, and then when they got deleted, that's what started Gamergate?
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Jun 30, 2015 07:28
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computer parts posted:Literally the only meme I can think of off-hand that's even remotely related is that MW2 boycott group which says exactly the opposite message. The pope hat was a major meme, "Reclaim Mass Effect" was a major social media movement, and so was EA continued victories of worst company.
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Jun 30, 2015 07:28
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