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Kalman posted:So you support training police to be less moral, less human, and more willing to overcome natural inhibitions against use of force? If the only two options are "applaud police for not stopping a murdercop when they have no beef killing people usually" and "the cops kill murdercops along with the people who don't deserve it" I guess I'll pick the latter? I mean it's a good thing those aren't the only two options but yeah; offering a hypothetical where cops become less reluctant to use force in a country where they are already not very reluctant to do so isn't a powerful threat
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Jun 30, 2015 15:15
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Ima Grip And Sip posted:
quote:“I never want a child’s safety being jeopardized. This is the type of incident that causes us to reflect on what we tell our police officers and how we tell them,” he said in a statement.
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Jun 30, 2015 15:18
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he tries to use his daughter as a shield
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VitalSigns posted:Yes actually I do think policing should be done by a professional "force" of some kind, maybe even one with some sort of academy where they could be trained to cope with the human urge to protect their own tribe at all costs and to be frightened of those who look like they are from another tribe, so they can discharge the duties appropriate to their career in a civilized society. Hey, me too. So you agree with me that it's totally natural for the officers not to have wanted to shoot their sergeant. See? You can think that what they did was totally normal and human and still the wrong choice. Which is what people have been trying to get through your thick loving skull for the last 5 pages.
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Jun 30, 2015 15:22
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Kalman posted:Hey, me too. edit: They also probably knew the Wife and Children too as well as officer shooty's domestic violence history. Add that to the other 2 factors. tezcat fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 15:28
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Kalman posted:Hey, me too. I would love to see you go to this woman's family and use this argument. What we're trying to get through your thick loving skull for the last five pages is that this kind of conduct costs lives. And since we can't bring the dead back when cops go "whoops my bad", we expect cops to err on the side of minimizing deaths and casualties especially of those who have not demonstrated a capacity for murder. But God forbid you actually address this point.
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Jun 30, 2015 15:33
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Kalman posted:Hey, me too. I haven't been here the last 5 pages, and all I did was reword what the people you're arguing with have been saying, but I'm glad I could clear it all up and we can see that the disagreement isn't nearly as big as it might have seemed.
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Jun 30, 2015 15:44
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Kalman posted:Hey, me too. Nobody thinks it's not hard to kill your friend. People here just don't buy that it's a valid excuse to not try to save the woman. It's really a very simple and straightforward position.
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Jun 30, 2015 16:58
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The entire point behind police officers is that they're supposed to be more morally upstanding and willing to make sacrifices to do what's right for protecting society than the average person.
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Jun 30, 2015 17:11
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I sign up to be a cop and accept the public trust and authority to use lethal force in defense of the populace, and suddenly you're asking me to make the tough decisions and handle myself in a professional manner. What's next, asking firemen not to let the houses of people they don't like burn down, or asking the FDA not to let their buddies slide on infractions? Those things are just human nature!
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Jun 30, 2015 17:14
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Kalman posted:So you support training police to be less moral, less human, and more willing to overcome natural inhibitions against use of force? Nope! Despite my best efforts to provide you with wisdom, you keep loving it up. See below: SedanChair posted:I cannot understand how "since you have the authority to use deadly force with impunity, how about you use it in those vanishingly rare instances where it's actually appropriate, rather than hundreds of times when it is not" can possibly be construed as "get trigger happy." Either we're dealing with disingenuous liars or people with cognitive processing disorders.
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Jun 30, 2015 17:34
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VitalSigns posted:I sign up to be a cop and accept the public trust and authority to use lethal force in defense of the populace, and suddenly you're asking me to make the tough decisions and handle myself in a professional manner. Show some common loving empathy. It's harder to put out a fellow goodfriend fireman's rainforest book bonfire. It makes you blink.
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Jun 30, 2015 17:34
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A Fancy Bloke posted:If the only two options are "applaud police for not stopping a murdercop when they have no beef killing people usually" and "the cops kill murdercops along with the people who don't deserve it" I guess I'll pick the latter? I mean it's a good thing those aren't the only two options but yeah; offering a hypothetical where cops become less reluctant to use force in a country where they are already not very reluctant to do so isn't a powerful threat I'm really glad to see all the people who want to disarm cops in this thread. Much like all the people tho think that everyone accused of a crime should be treated like Zimmerman and so obviously support prison abolition.
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Jun 30, 2015 18:42
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VitalSigns posted:I sign up to be a cop and accept the public trust and authority to use lethal force in defense of the populace, and suddenly you're asking me to make the tough decisions and handle myself in a professional manner. They probably talked that now murdered woman out of filing a domestic violence complaint dozens of times. Tough decisions, made in a professional manner. There is going to be a pattern of abuse, going back decades. Letting her die might be the closest they ever got to showing her kindness.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:15
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Kalman posted:So you agree with me that it's totally natural for the officers not to have wanted to shoot their sergeant. It's totally natural for garbagemen to not want to have to pick up the trash too, but they do it, cause it's their job.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:28
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Kalman posted:Hey, me too. Nobody.is saying it isn't natural. Everyone is saying and the apologists are pretending nobody is saying is the cops didn't do a loving thing when there was a woman bleeding to death. Fine don't shoot him, taze him, beanbag him, loving do SOMETHING besides spending half an hour putting together a photo album. The second thing apologists haven't even touched is where the gently caress is this patient empathy for anyone else. Someone is loving dying and shot in front of them but instant non-compliance from a non violent non-cop and cops lose their poo poo start screaming at people, whip out tazers and people end up dead for no other reason than instead of treating everyone like their good buddy sarge they get bullshit "resisting arrest" because they didn't go limp and dared to ask what the gently caress is going on especially in cases where their only actual crime at that point is daring to ask what they are being charged with. Nice catch-22. Watch the white and black open carry guys video. White gut gets treated like a human, black guy gets drawn on instantly. People ask why the gently caress doesn't everyone get treated like good old wife murdering sarge and all they can do is waste pages arguing about headlights and how hard it is to have to take down someone committing murder right in front of you because you know him.
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Jul 1, 2015 05:35
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Lyesh posted:the people tho think that everyone accused of a crime should be treated like Zimmerman are there people who are against everyone being given a fair trial posting here now? has this thread sunk that low? Toasticle posted:The second thing apologists haven't even touched is where the gently caress is this patient empathy for anyone else. Someone is loving dying and shot in front of them but instant non-compliance from a non violent non-cop and cops lose their poo poo start screaming at people, whip out tazers and people end up dead for no other reason than instead of treating everyone like their good buddy sarge they get bullshit "resisting arrest" because they didn't go limp and dared to ask what the gently caress is going on especially in cases where their only actual crime at that point is daring to ask what they are being charged with. Nice catch-22. It's the exact same thought process, dude. Had the cops reacted like they normally did and hosed the guy up, nobody would be surprised or feel sorry for him because he was resisting arrest and was a crazy murderer. Similarly, when someone who's obviously under arrest for some also-obvious thing resists and ends up getting their rear end kicked, I and many other people have very limited sympathy for them. It just happens that in the first case, the cops had a few reasons to balk at doing what needed to be done.
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Jul 1, 2015 06:21
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semper wifi posted:It's the exact same thought process, dude. Had the cops reacted like they normally did and hosed the guy up, nobody would be surprised or feel sorry for him because he was resisting arrest and was a crazy murderer. Similarly, when someone who's obviously under arrest for some also-obvious thing resists and ends up getting their rear end kicked, I and many other people have very limited sympathy for them. It just happens that in the first case, the cops had a few reasons to balk at doing what needed to be done. It's pretty clear that you don't "have limited sympathy," you actively cheer on the deaths of people at the hands of police. semper wifi posted:I'm not justifying what the cops did, I'm criticizing the tendency for people in this thread to let high-profile victims of police violence completely off the hook, to the point of pretending that a 25 year old man qualifies as a "kid". The cops aren't great but Freddie, and Freddie alone, was the one who invited them into his life. semper wifi posted:"anyone who disagrees with me is trolling"
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Jul 1, 2015 06:38
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Man, usually the smarter authority worshipers are deft enough to pivot to "these were isolated bad actors who don't reflect anything at all of the culture and attitudes of their organization, and they are getting charged so the system works" whenever an obvious case of unjustified manslaughter and premeditated violence against a shackled prisoner comes out.
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Jul 1, 2015 16:37
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FRINGE posted:Theres a lot of stuff going on in these topics every day. Getting mired in arguing with the people who think that murder is ok when Heroes do it is a massive distraction machine. This is interesting. At least when compared with five pages of shoot/don't shoot. I knew we had de facto slave labor subsidizing our food supply in a variety of ways, but I didn't realize that the state employed literal slaves to drive down the price of McDonald's hamburgers. Is there any more information on this?
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Jul 1, 2015 16:46
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VitalSigns posted:Man, usually the smarter authority worshipers are deft enough to pivot to "these were isolated bad actors who don't reflect anything at all of the culture and attitudes of their organization, and they are getting charged so the system works" whenever an obvious case of unjustified manslaughter and premeditated violence against a shackled prisoner comes out. All cops are good except for the ones involved in the 147 incidents listed in this thread.
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Jul 1, 2015 16:47
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Nah even they are usually good even in the most egregious circumstances. The "perp" generally shouldn't have "talked back", "resisted", or should have just averted his gaze quicker.
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Jul 1, 2015 19:02
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semper wifi posted:are there people who are against everyone being given a fair trial posting here now? has this thread sunk that low? I'd be perfectly fine with it. It's just that if we actually did that, then our prisons would be almost empty.
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Jul 1, 2015 20:06
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semper wifi posted:are there people who are against everyone being given a fair trial posting here now? has this thread sunk that low? Haha, get a load of the guy who gushed approvingly at the execution of Freddie Gray before he'd even been charged pearl-clutching over forumsposters criticizing police on the internet without the benefit of trial. Lyesh posted:I'd be perfectly fine with it. It's just that if we actually did that, then our prisons would be almost empty. It would also mean we'd have to let everyone actually reach the trial alive instead of shackling and murdering them first. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 1, 2015 21:57
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3e_1435755500 Stop monday morning quarterbacking!! Or whatever stupid poo poo apologists say.
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Jul 2, 2015 00:35
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Agrajag posted:http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3e_1435755500 I'm the wall he was casually slammed into before he was yelled at
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Jul 2, 2015 04:09
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Agrajag posted:http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3e_1435755500 This is how some cops act despite knowing they're being recorded by a device pinned to their chest. Edit: quote:For the recent jail beating, Magness pleaded guilty to misdemeanor assault and was placed on one year probation by an Adams County court in June. Lasnik was also charged with misdemeanor assault. He has retained an attorney who says they are considering civil action. http://kdvr.com/2015/06/30/body-cam-shows-federal-heights-officer-with-history-of-violence-beating-suspect/ Devor fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 04:42
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Misdemeanor assault and just probation? loving hell. Why aren't there sentencing enhancements for crimes committed by those abusing their authority, that seems like it should obviously be more egregious than most of the existing reasons for those enhancements? And how does someone with a prior assault conviction manage to walk away with probation regardless of the circumstances?
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Jul 2, 2015 13:08
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From the other side of the argument for body-cameras: suicide-by-cop. NMS/NSFW -- two angles, snychronized:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXfUBZptZ9Q Depressing as poo poo, but I think it well illustrates a few points:
To continue on that last point, how this goes down is a boilerplate, "He was (suddenly) coming right for me!," story. If for some reason this were to blow up in their faces, how would that story fly? Except here, we actually have proof that it actually happened and in that fashion. This case is exemplary of, "Cops should want this, too." Lastly, context: quote:James D. Bushey, 47, of Elkhart, went into the restaurant after shoplifting alcohol from Walmart Sunday evening. After Palestine Police officers removed him from his hiding place, the restroom inside the establishment, he pulled out a pistol. It was later discovered that the pistol was a BB gun. An officer attempted to get the weapon away from Bushey, but the man broke free from the officer and pointed the weapon at the officers. The two officers shot Bushey multiple times trying to eliminate the threat of a weapon. 
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Jul 2, 2015 15:13
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Man that was a nice little throw move to get out of the line of fire. Nothing wrong with any of that. See cops? It's for your own protection!
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Jul 2, 2015 15:37
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Literally LOL if you paid attention to the Eric Garner incident and think cameras will curb police brutality
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Jul 2, 2015 15:50
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I would have thought the case about the officers failing to do something about the police killing his hostage ex wife would have been a slam dunk "gently caress cops" moment, but welp, here we are.
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Jul 2, 2015 17:50
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Zelder posted:I would have thought the case about the officers failing to do something about the police killing his hostage ex wife would have been a slam dunk "gently caress cops" moment, but welp, here we are. Someone literally called us sociopaths for not empathizing with the killer enough...
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Jul 2, 2015 17:56
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A Fancy Bloke posted:Literally LOL if you paid attention to the Eric Garner incident and think cameras will curb police brutality Cameras seemed to help with that South Carolina case. And also the other case posted above where the cop is no longer a cop because he was fired.
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Jul 2, 2015 17:56
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ToastyPotato posted:Cameras seemed to help with that South Carolina case. And also the other case posted above where the cop is no longer a cop because he was fired. He wasn't fired because of the body camera he was fired because his superiors and coworkers recognized that he was a raging rear end in a top hat who was impossible to work with.
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Jul 2, 2015 18:29
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Cameras are useful enough that there is no reason not to have them. They are however not a panacea because, as this thread illustrates, Americans are totally cool with cops beating the gently caress out of people for being disobedient. Also convicted domestic abusers or people with records of assault should be bared forever from being police officers. I just can't fathom why you would want someone with a short temper to be authorized to initiate physical force on people.
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Jul 2, 2015 19:08
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Mavric posted:Cameras are useful enough that there is no reason not to have them. They are however not a panacea because, as this thread illustrates, Americans are totally cool with cops beating the gently caress out of people for being disobedient. There's a bad trend among people in which any solution that doesn't immediately solve the problem is treated as useless and shouldn't be started in the first place unless it's better. Of course body cameras won't be an instant cure, but departments using cameras that can't be turned off by the officer have experienced a marked decrease in complaints and violence. They're not super awesome, but they do something. It provides a way to chip away at the violence by providing an immediate form of oversight to discourage abusive behavior.
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Jul 2, 2015 19:22
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Accretionist posted:From the other side of the argument for body-cameras: suicide-by-cop. My buddies are all for the body cams. Apparently having everything recorded is a good way to lower BS complaints against cops. That video. Best coment: 0:14 "Ofc Griffin has joined the server,"
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Jul 2, 2015 19:22
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chitoryu12 posted:There's a bad trend among people in which any solution that doesn't immediately solve the problem is treated as useless and shouldn't be started in the first place unless it's better. Of course body cameras won't be an instant cure, but departments using cameras that can't be turned off by the officer have experienced a marked decrease in complaints and violence. They're not super awesome, but they do something. It provides a way to chip away at the violence by providing an immediate form of oversight to discourage abusive behavior. Rialto PD could turn them off and they still had a huge effect. They shouldn't be able to period, but justvthe impact of having them cannot be understated.
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Jul 2, 2015 20:14
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Woozy posted:He wasn't fired because of the body camera he was fired because his superiors and coworkers recognized that he was a raging rear end in a top hat who was impossible to work with. He might not have been fired because of the video specifically, but the video was reviewed and undoubtedly used as evidence against him for the firing, along with the rest of his history of assholery. chitoryu12 posted:There's a bad trend among people in which any solution that doesn't immediately solve the problem is treated as useless and shouldn't be started in the first place unless it's better. Of course body cameras won't be an instant cure, but departments using cameras that can't be turned off by the officer have experienced a marked decrease in complaints and violence. They're not super awesome, but they do something. It provides a way to chip away at the violence by providing an immediate form of oversight to discourage abusive behavior. Yeah it is just another way of being dismissive. There is literally no reason to be against the cameras. The cameras protect cops too. In fact, I would even be willing to believe that the cameras could help cops more than they help everyone else.
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Jul 2, 2015 21:15
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ElCondemn posted:Someone literally called us sociopaths for not empathizing with the killer enough... It's more like a bunch of people are insanely care mad a cop didn't die, regardless of circumstances.
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Jul 2, 2015 23:21
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