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Effectronica posted:In other words, when a highly sexualized outfit is worn on the catwalk, everyone knows that this is actually supposed to be sexy, but when this happens in a film, everyone knows that it's not really sexy. I suspect that the mental illness is not to be found in the idea that people might identify at all with fictional characters in any way. I thought we were talking about body image, not sexy clothes? For the record, the outfits seen at fashion shows often aren't particularly sexualized, and in fact the whole reason that fashion models are thin is because the fashion designers, who are overwhelmingly women and gay men, want people to focus their attention on the clothes they design instead of the people wearing them. So yes, it is very different in intent from sexy video game women.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:05
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Ddraig posted:There are people in this very thread and the previous who can't. Anita is a talking head that reads what McIntosh tells her to. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:06
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ChazTurbo posted:Shortening nipponjin is a racial slur? My apologies if it is. I'm not from the United States originally. the correct term is nihon-jin
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Jun 30, 2015 19:06
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Cingulate posted:This I hate sexy women in my Japanese boy band games too.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:06
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does not need to directly lead to the hate-murder of female babies to be bad.
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Cingulate posted:This Isn't this more of a Japanese culture thing than an American one? I'm pretty sure they have entirely different views on sex and the depiction of women over there.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:07
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natetimm posted:Negative correlation between consumption of sexual content and having sexist opinions. Advertising is trying to sell you something that actually exists. Did you get past the paywall? My Uni does not have the full article on record, and the link only shows the abstract with no obvious link to the full article.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:07
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computer parts posted:You could have cited How I Met Your Mother but it doesn't change the fact that no one petitioned the studios to release an alternate cut of the ending like people did with Bioware. It happens. The game consumer just happens to be a lot more internet-savvy, generally. A wide majority of TV consumers think Facebook is the internet, just as they used to think AOL was the internet.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:08
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INH5 posted:I thought we were talking about body image, not sexy clothes? For the record, the outfits seen at fashion shows often aren't particularly sexualized, and in fact the whole reason that fashion models are thin is because the fashion designers, who are overwhelmingly women and gay men, want people to focus their attention on the clothes they design instead of the people wearing them. So yes, it is very different in intent from sexy video game women. We are talking about sexism generally. I was using that as an example, because the point is that what we think of as "sexy" is continuously created by all media, rather than being split neatly into "factz" that do so and "fantasy" that we are immune to.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:08
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INH5 posted:So, men in popular (note that these are images from "top-selling American gaming magazines") video games are more likely to be violent, women in those same games are more likely to be sexy, and teenagers know that this is the case. Wow, I would never have guessed that, Captain Obvious. Note that the study doesn't actually attempt to measure long term media effects, and other studies that have looked at that have found no effect. You seem awfully upset about me pointing out research. I mean at least I am bringing something to the table. Also, people keep bringing up that abstract without actually going in depth to what the article actually is saying. http://kotaku.com/what-to-make-of-a-study-about-gaming-and-sexism-1698543308 quote:“Some people seem to think that this is proof that sexism is not an issue in games and gaming culture, which is something that we neither found, nor say (nor examined, really) in our study.”
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Jun 30, 2015 19:08
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Craptacular! posted:Just want to mention since last night discussion of Mass Effect's ending came up, with some people saying that fans of other media don't lose their poo poo with petitions and editorials and so on, and that this makes gamers uniquely retarded among entertainment consumers, I want to say film/TV fans actually have lost their poo poo over a controversial ending direction before. Debating the ending of the Sopranos is far different from petitioning bioware to release an alternate ending.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:09
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Weirdo posted:Did you get past the paywall? My Uni does not have the full article on record, and the link only shows the abstract with no obvious link to the full article. It was printed completely a while back during GG and passed around. I want to say I read the whole thing at this link at one time, because i have it bookmarked. Anyway, it's pretty interesting if you can find the whole thing.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:09
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INH5 posted:I thought we were talking about body image, not sexy clothes? For the record, the outfits seen at fashion shows often aren't particularly sexualized, and in fact the whole reason that fashion models are thin is because the fashion designers, who are overwhelmingly women and gay men, want people to focus their attention on the clothes they design instead of the people wearing them. So yes, it is very different in intent from sexy video game women. Yes, which is why all models have horrible acne and awful teeth. Models aren't selected for their physical features at all and we definitely do not have several whole shows to selecting models based on beauty standards.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:09
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natetimm posted:It was printed completely a while back during GG and passed around. I want to say I read the whole thing at this link at one time, because i have it bookmarked. Anyway, it's pretty interesting if you can find the whole thing. You do know that is theft don't you? Or at least the same as any copyright violation.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:10
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blackguy32 posted:You seem awfully upset about me pointing out research. I mean at least I am bringing something to the table. Also, people keep bringing up that abstract without actually going in depth to what the article actually is saying. Unironically quoting Kotaku in a way that directly contradicts the study itself. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 30, 2015 19:10
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natetimm posted:Anita is a talking head that reads what McIntosh tells her to. Nothing more, nothing less. Why do you think this? It is a legitimate question. Don't you think Anita has some control over what she is saying?
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Jun 30, 2015 19:11
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natetimm posted:Isn't this more of a Japanese culture thing than an American one? I'm pretty sure they have entirely different views on sex and the depiction of women over there. ChazTurbo posted:I hate sexy women in my Japanese boy band games too.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:11
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Craptacular! posted:It happens. Again, HIMYM ticks similar (age) demographics to video games and no one petitioned them for an alternate ending. They just said "yeah we wasted most of a decade on this, that sucks".
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Jun 30, 2015 19:11
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natetimm posted:Unironically quoting Kotaku in a way that directly contradicts the study itself. It is better than what you are bringing to the table, which is nothing. You could actually read the article and see that even the authors of the study themselves are saying that the study isn't saying what people think it is saying. http://blog.rkowert.com/sexist-games--sexist-gamers/#more
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Jun 30, 2015 19:12
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natetimm posted:Unironically quoting Kotaku in a way that directly contradicts the study itself. You're a paranoid lunatic and have not shown any reasons why we should assume that anything posted on the website "Kotaku" is lies.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:12
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Cingulate posted:I think as a feminist, your privilege is you're allowed to be angry at other cultures (if they're sexist, but, haha, turns out they all are). I know, the coolest privilege, and white guys don't get it!? Literally "  Won't someone please think of the white men?!" This is simply a thing of beauty.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:13
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natetimm posted:Anita is a talking head that reads what McIntosh tells her to. Nothing more, nothing less. pretty much.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:13
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computer parts posted:Again, HIMYM ticks similar (age) demographics to video games and no one petitioned them for an alternate ending. It's also easier to change a ending of a game then a ending of a live tv show. Hardest part is voice acting. But it's easier then live actors.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:13
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blackguy32 posted:Why do you think this? It is a legitimate question. Don't you think Anita has some control over what she is saying? There are multiple tweets that are word for word copied from his past accounts (spelling errors included) that ended up on femfreqs account presented as Anita saying it. He moves back and forth between the two accounts during his rants, and one time accidentally called someone a misogynist for disagreeing with him on his own account instead of the femfreq one. If you follow the two accounts at all, it's completely obvious he's jerking the strings.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:14
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blackguy32 posted:It is better than what you are bringing to the table, which is nothing. You could actually read the article and see that even the authors of the study themselves are saying that the study isn't saying what people think it is saying. Actually, that's what hack bloggers are saying to protect their narrative.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:14
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Cyron posted:It's also easier to change a ending of a game then a ending of a live tv show. Hardest part is voice acting. But it's easier then live actors. They're pretty similar now that everything is voice acted.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:15
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Who What Now posted:Yes, which is why all models have horrible acne and awful teeth. Models aren't selected for their physical features at all and we definitely do not have several whole shows to selecting models based on beauty standards. Horrible acne and awful teeth would distract from the clothes in a different way. I'm not just speculating here, multiple fashion designers have said as much. quote:During a debate on body image, held a few years ago in the midst of all the ‘size zero’ press, designer Roland Mouret told a packed lecture theatre at the London College Of Fashion that he preferred his ladies with a bit of meat on them. The designs he creates flatter women of all shapes and sizes but he found that his clothes didn’t hang as intended on models who were simply skin and bones. However, one of the most interesting points he made was that women with shape and curves can look too sexy for the catwalk, drawing attention away from the clothes. It was one of the arguments for many designers choosing super-skinny, uniform models as they were to be little more than clothes horses, displaying the designer’s art in the same way that galleries often hang fine art prints on blank walls. http://liquorsandlace.tumblr.com/post/2926550095/fashion-notes-style-at-mugler-during-a-debate
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Jun 30, 2015 19:16
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natetimm posted:Actually, that's what hack bloggers are saying to protect their narrative. "Hack bloggers" interviewed the actual author of the article you posted, as opposed to stealing it 
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Jun 30, 2015 19:16
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natetimm posted:Actually, that's what hack bloggers are saying to protect their narrative. That's one of the researchers who did the study you wave about like it's Old Glory. Guess she's another puppet of some idiot on twitter.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:17
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INH5 posted:Horrible acne and awful teeth would distract from the clothes in a different way. I'm not just speculating here, multiple fashion designers have said as much. I'm kind of okay with this.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:17
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computer parts posted:Again, HIMYM ticks similar (age) demographics to video games and no one petitioned them for an alternate ending. I don't know what your point is. TV has a very different type of industry coverage. Mass Effect rage also didn't get New York Times stories and a segment on the nightly news the way that Sopranos rage did. Coverage surrounding video games largely lives online. I don't watch HIMYM. I don't have any opinion on it, I just know that the ending of The Sopranos created so much mainstream ink of people wanting "a real resolution" that David Chase made a firm No Comment and then disappeared for a good long while. EDIT: The ending for Seinfeld was also garbage, but didn't generate the kind of reaction that either Mass Effect or Sopranos did. It's probably more telling that audiences for comedies are just sort of willing to go with it.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:18
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natetimm posted:Actually, that's what hack bloggers are saying to protect their narrative. I linked to one of the author's actual blogs who actually links to that Kotaku article. natetimm posted:There are multiple tweets that are word for word copied from his past accounts (spelling errors included) that ended up on femfreqs account presented as Anita saying it. He moves back and forth between the two accounts during his rants, and one time accidentally called someone a misogynist for disagreeing with him on his own account instead of the femfreq one. If you follow the two accounts at all, it's completely obvious he's jerking the strings. Ok, I can understand where you are coming from, but do you think he is controlling everything that she is saying?
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Jun 30, 2015 19:18
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Effectronica posted:That's one of the researchers who did the study you wave about like it's Old Glory. Guess she's another puppet of some idiot on twitter. It doesn't surprise me that people would waffle and present opinions as "possible" that directly conflict with their data, especially when interviewed by notorious witch-hunt click bait websites.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:19
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computer parts posted:They're pretty similar now that everything is voice acted. Oh right i forgot studios love to cgi everything now.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:19
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computer parts posted:They're pretty similar now that everything is voice acted. It's still significantly easier because visiting a recording studio is a lot easier than setting up a film shoot. There's a reason why in Film School they tell aspiring directors to always shoot at least one scene where the protagonist is talking on the phone with his/her back to the camera.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:19
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Craptacular! posted:I don't know what your point is. TV has a very different type of industry coverage. That is my point.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:19
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blackguy32 posted:I linked to one of the author's actual blogs who actually links to that Kotaku article. I wish she would dump him and go it alone so we could actually parse what her opinions are, because at this point all she's ever done is Q&A sessions with people who lobbed her softballs and nodded her head at McIntosh's scripts and read them out loud for the camera.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:20
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natetimm posted:It doesn't surprise me that people would waffle and present opinions as "possible" that directly conflict with their data, especially when interviewed by notorious witch-hunt click bait websites. That's her personal blog. And please stop agreeing with my insults. I say that you believe in a feminist conspiracy that is actually controlled by one man on twitter who I will never, ever give a drat about, and you agree enthusiastically. If I call you a pedophile, will you start talking about how age-of-consent laws are bullshit?
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Jun 30, 2015 19:20
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computer parts posted:That is my point. But are you arguing that the video game consumer is somehow 'more retarded' (or autistic or whatever your favorite put-down for "obsessed with this to the point that it scares normal people"?) Because I don't think anything proved that. The venues for which people complain about TV and movies leaving them unsatisfied has a much larger 'reach' than a change.org opinion spread on NeoGAF and then linked once on Kotaku.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:22
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Yeah, judging by the actions and words of its supporters I'm starting to think this Gamergate is not actually about ethics!
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Jun 30, 2015 19:23
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natetimm posted:It doesn't surprise me that people would waffle and present opinions as "possible" that directly conflict with their data, especially when interviewed by notorious witch-hunt click bait websites. And really: are you actually arguing that media doesn't have any impact on people's attitudes (unless they are incapable of distinguishing fantasy from reality)? We already know that violent pornography impacts men's attitudes towards women. Why wouldn't other media impact men's attitudes towards women, too? Is it just that video games are somehow immune from this impact? Why would video games be immune from this?
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Jun 30, 2015 19:24
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