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natetimm posted:It doesn't surprise me that people would waffle and present opinions as "possible" that directly conflict with their data, especially when interviewed by notorious witch-hunt click bait websites. But she isn't waffling. I don't think she intended to for her research to be some kind of rallying point for gaming enthusiasts to deflect criticism from the social effects of games. She is clarifying that her research isn't conclusive.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:25
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Weirdo posted:Yeah, judging by the actions and words of its supporters I'm starting to think this Gamergate is not actually about ethics! What give away the hint :p Honestly i know a sexist gamer who believe femanist is a myth and he think gamergate is too full of assholes. Cyron fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 19:25
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Craptacular! posted:But are you arguing that the video game consumer is somehow 'more retarded' (or autistic or whatever your favorite put-down for "obsessed with this to the point that it scares normal people"?) Because I don't think anything proved that. The venues for which people complain about TV and movies leaving them unsatisfied has a much larger 'reach' than a change.org opinion spread on NeoGAF and then linked once on Kotaku. The proof is that TV audiences don't get in an uproar about this, even controlling for age. Hell, even if you control for other demographics you don't get the same sort of vitriol. For example, Battlestar Galactica had a whole bunch of "this ending is poo poo" but not any "we should petition this until it's changed". Your example for the Sopranos isn't even that relevant because people didn't want a change, they wanted another 10 seconds of film.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:25
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Scientists will hedge every claim under the sun, that's how scientists talk. Violent pornography is depicting an act that actually happened. Video games are not. Fantasy is not reality. Jesus Christ, people.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:26
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blackguy32 posted:But she isn't waffling. I don't think she intended to for her research to be some kind of rallying point for gaming enthusiasts to deflect criticism from the social effects of games. She is clarifying that her research isn't conclusive. Not conclusive but certainly points in one direction as opposed to the other.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:26
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natetimm posted:Violent pornography is depicting an act that actually happened. Video games are not. Fantasy is not reality. Jesus Christ, people. No, it isn't. It is depicting a simulation of an act, just as any other fictional medium does. What, do you think that they do it all in one take? Do you even know what a take is?
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Jun 30, 2015 19:27
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Effectronica posted:No, it isn't. It is depicting a simulation of an act, just as any other fictional medium does. What, do you think that they do it all in one take? Do you even know what a take is? I hate to break this to you, but people in porn are actually loving. It's not CGI velociraptors.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:27
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Effectronica posted:No, it isn't. It is depicting a simulation of an act, just as any other fictional medium does. What, do you think that they do it all in one take? Do you even know what a take is? Are you telling me that the casting couch is fake?!
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Jun 30, 2015 19:28
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computer parts posted:The proof is that TV audiences don't get in an uproar about this, even controlling for age. Hell, even if you control for other demographics you don't get the same sort of vitriol. For example, Battlestar Galactica had a whole bunch of "this ending is poo poo" but not any "we should petition this until it's changed". A thing to keep in mind is that with TV changing an ending usually isn't possible at all, as even if the studios would be willing to put up money for it, there's a good chance that the sets will have all been torn down and the actors will have moved onto other roles by the time the final episode airs. DLC is commonplace in games. Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Scientists will hedge every claim under the sun, that's how scientists talk. That debate seems to be far from settled.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:28
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natetimm posted:I hate to break this to you, but people in porn are actually loving. It's not CGI velociraptors. They are not performing the sexual acts that you view when you masturbate to a woman getting her head slammed against a foam wall. They are simulating them, because they take multiple takes and shots to piece together the final footage. It's not the real act, it's a simulation of the depicted one.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:29
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Effectronica posted:They are not performing the sexual acts that you view when you masturbate to a woman getting her head slammed against a foam wall. They are simulating them, because they take multiple takes and shots to piece together the final footage. It's not the real act, it's a simulation of the depicted one. Nah, they're loving, dude. They're actual people loving, as opposed to pretend characters looking too sexy for sex-negative feminists with no data to show why that's bad.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:31
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Are we really utilitarians about this? To those attacking overly sexualised video game women, I ask: would you stop being against it if it were shown to not lead to increased sexism? To those defending it: I understand you may want to take a principled liberal stance on your medium of choice and keep restrictions out of it as long as no direct harm is done, but do you truly not look at poo poo like this and think: this is dumb, I wish they'd stop doing it? To those defending it: do you actually like this?
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Jun 30, 2015 19:32
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natetimm posted:There are multiple tweets that are word for word copied from his past accounts (spelling errors included) that ended up on femfreqs account presented as Anita saying it. He moves back and forth between the two accounts during his rants, and one time accidentally called someone a misogynist for disagreeing with him on his own account instead of the femfreq one. If you follow the two accounts at all, it's completely obvious he's jerking the strings. http://feministfrequency.com/about/ Yo read this. I'll quote it incase you get the cooties: quote:Jonathan McIntosh serves as producer and co-writer on Feminist Frequency’s Tropes vs Women in Video Games web series. Even further up it says Feminist Frequency is a registered charity. Following the IRS charity registry it says that Feminist Frequency is indeed a registered charity, as evidenced by this: http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/46-3408143/feminist-frequency.aspx#legitimacy It's registered as a 501c3 Here are the IRS exemption requirements for said organization: http://tinyurl.com/a4arhlq quote:To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. Further clarification on the nature of an organization of a 501c3 organization reveals this: http://tinyurl.com/pcmbell quote:To be organized exclusively for a charitable purpose, the organization must be a corporation (or unincorporated association), community chest, fund, or foundation. A charitable trust is a fund or foundation and will qualify. However, an individual will not qualify. (Emphasis mine) tl;dr Anita is not Feminist Frequency, it's a joint collaboration and it's probable that maybe, just maybe, the Feminist Frequency twitter account is not actually Anita's personal account?
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Jun 30, 2015 19:32
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INH5 posted:A thing to keep in mind is that with TV changing an ending usually isn't possible at all, as even if the studios would be willing to put up money for it, there's a good chance that the sets will have all been torn down and the actors will have moved onto other roles by the time the final episode airs. DLC is commonplace in games. So instead the guy's just comparing apples to oranges. Good to know.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:32
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natetimm posted:Nah, they're loving, dude. They're actual people loving, as opposed to pretend characters looking too sexy for sex-negative feminists with no data to show why that's bad. You have a real problem with reading comprehension. Might I suggest getting your GED? Cingulate posted:Are we really utilitarians about this? I'm not a utilitarian.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:33
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Cingulate posted:Are we really utilitarians about this? As a matter of taste I can live with it or without it, but I will defend its right to exist and the bullshit pseudoscience and political intolerance attacking it.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:33
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natetimm posted:Not conclusive but certainly points in one direction as opposed to the other. She actually thinks that studies should be done on gamer interaction and that most likely affects things more than the games themselves.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:34
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Effectronica posted:You have a real problem with reading comprehension. Might I suggest getting your GED? natetimm posted:As a matter of taste I can live with it or without it, but I will defend its right to exist and the bullshit pseudoscience and political intolerance attacking it.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:35
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Ddraig posted:http://feministfrequency.com/about/ Her face is the cover for it and serves as an effective shield from criticism so McIntosh can continue his stupid tirades. Take her face off of it and use the logo instead if they don't want her associated with his dumb statements. That would be contrary to his goals though, because he specifically hired her to be the face of his opinions and a target for harassment (less than 1% of the messages they receive, by their own metric).
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Jun 30, 2015 19:35
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Cingulate posted:Why are you pursuing an utilitarian argument? I am not pursuing a utilitarian argument.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:37
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Effectronica posted:They are not performing the sexual acts that you view when you masturbate to a woman getting her head slammed against a foam wall. They are simulating them, because they take multiple takes and shots to piece together the final footage. It's not the real act, it's a simulation of the depicted one. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. computer parts posted:So instead the guy's just comparing apples to oranges. Good to know. One real example of fans trying to get a movie's ending changed that I know of was when Firefly fans learned from spoilers that Wash was going to die in Serenity, and some of them started a petition asking Whedon and co. to reshoot the last part of the movie to have him survive. Obviously nothing came of that, since the movie was already in post-production at that point and there was no way the studios were going to put a bunch of more money into what was already a huge gamble, even if Joss had wanted to do it.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:39
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Cingulate posted:Why are you pursuing an utilitarian argument? It depends on how it's used. Sex was an excellent character development tool in the new Wolfenstein. Bayonetta is a funny example of sexualized characters. If you're going to tell me that overall video games need better writing I'm not going to disagree with you, but I don't think that's going to be accomplished by even worse writers trying to be some sort of content curators in regards to material they consider offensive. Nobody really bitches about how dumb the Bioware games are in regards to having a virtual harem in your party because they shoehorned gays into it, so the current system of preening critics cltuching their pearls obviously doesn't work once they're pandered to even a little bit.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:39
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natetimm posted:Her face is the cover for it and serves as an effective shield from criticism so McIntosh can continue his stupid tirades. Take her face off of it and use the logo instead if they don't want her associated with his dumb statements. That would be contrary to his goals though, because he specifically hired her to be the face of his opinions and a target for harassment (less than 1% of the messages they receive, by their own metric). He even did the whole "my statements would seem stronger if coming from a woman" thing on his own account before a bunch of his tweets showed up on the FemFreq one, lol.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:39
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natetimm posted:Her face is the cover for it and serves as an effective shield from criticism so McIntosh can continue his stupid tirades. Take her face off of it and use the logo instead if they don't want her associated with his dumb statements. That would be contrary to his goals though, because he specifically hired her to be the face of his opinions and a target for harassment (less than 1% of the messages they receive, by their own metric). Ok so when presented with evidence that Anita has never, or will ever claim that Feminist Frequency is her (it's a joint effort, as noted by the "Team" section) and the fact the organization itself is a registered non-profit, which can only happen if there's more than one person involved (almost as if Feminist Frequency is not just Anita, they certainly kept this hidden) you move onto "Well they shouldn't have her image" Tell me: How do you feel about Jade Raymond?
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Jun 30, 2015 19:41
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natetimm posted:Her face is the cover for it and serves as an effective shield from criticism so McIntosh can continue his stupid tirades. Take her face off of it and use the logo instead if they don't want her associated with his dumb statements. That would be contrary to his goals though, because he specifically hired her to be the face of his opinions and a target for harassment (less than 1% of the messages they receive, by their own metric). This has no evidence at all.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:41
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INH5 posted:You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. When you watch a woman get
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Jun 30, 2015 19:41
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Cingulate posted:Why are you pursuing an utilitarian argument? I rather more found of the abs on the man. And most of my favorite games are not super sexy. So i can live with cid with s shirt. Just let me see them pecks.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:42
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blackguy32 posted:This has no evidence at all. He ranted for years about the same bullshit to no avail on his own personal Twitter. He even calls himself a propagandist and deliberately manufactured this entire situation.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:43
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natetimm posted:He ranted for years about the same bullshit to no avail on his own personal Twitter. He even calls himself a propagandist and deliberately manufactured this entire situation. This still isn't evidence that he did what you said he did. You are jumping to conclusions.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:44
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Ddraig posted:Ok so when presented with evidence that Anita has never, or will ever claim that Feminist Frequency is her (it's a joint effort, as noted by the "Team" section) and the fact the organization itself is a registered non-profit, which can only happen if there's more than one person involved (almost as if Feminist Frequency is not just Anita, they certainly kept this hidden) you move onto "Well they shouldn't have her image" She is a good dev. helped created one of my favorite game franchises. same with amy hening. she wrote all the uncharted games and is now working on a star wars game.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:44
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I still can't get over how stealing a graduate student's work is acceptable behaviour for a group claiming the ethical high-ground.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:45
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blackguy32 posted:This still isn't evidence that he did what you said he did. You are jumping to conclusions. If less than 1% of the communication femfreq receives is harassment by their own metric, why is that the narrative they put forth everywhere? Do you think the guy who bitches about the damsel in distress trope constantly doesn't know why it's successful?
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Jun 30, 2015 19:46
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blackguy32 posted:This still isn't evidence that he did what you said he did. You are jumping to conclusions. What, that he posted identical tweets on her account shortly after deleting the original ones from his?
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Jun 30, 2015 19:46
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Cingulate posted:Are we really utilitarians about this? Because cultivation theory is more like the cultivation hypothesis. Research on it has been spotty and contradictory at best and people looking to justify their views at worst. To dictate to people what to make or design based on something that is completely inconclusive is ridiculous.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:47
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Effectro i get that being aggressively contrary to shitposters is your thing but you can't possibly think that porn productions, especially ones that depict misogynistic abuse of women, are free from actual abuse, right?
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Jun 30, 2015 19:47
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poptart_fairy posted:What, that he posted identical tweets on her account shortly after deleting the original ones from his? It's not her account.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:47
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poptart_fairy posted:What, that he posted identical tweets on her account shortly after deleting the original ones from his? But you see it's not really "her" account when he's posting dumb poo poo, it's only "her" account when it's receiving harassment.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:48
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Dapper Dan posted:Because cultivation theory is more like the cultivation hypothesis. Research on it has been spotty and contradictory at best and people looking to justify their views at worst. To dictate to people what to make or design based on something that is completely inconclusive is ridiculous. Media, to you, is something that does not play a part in socialization. Children are born knowing what vampires are. A big flaming stink posted:Effectro i get that being aggressively contrary to shitposters is your thing but you can't possibly think that porn productions, especially ones that depict misogynistic abuse of women, are free from actual abuse, right? That's not what I said. I said that pornography is as fake as any other movie is. Porn is generally pretty abusive, and the less abusive parts of the industry are damned as pink-hair SJWs.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:49
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Ddraig posted:It's not her account. Except for her face and brand being attached to it, and the harassment suddenly being aimed at her when fired at the Fem Frequency account.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:51
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Effectronica posted:Media, to you, is something that does not play a part in socialization. Children are born knowing what vampires are. ok that's what i thought
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Jun 30, 2015 19:52
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