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blackguy32 posted:You seem awfully upset about me pointing out research. I mean at least I am bringing something to the table. Also, people keep bringing up that abstract without actually going in depth to what the article actually is saying. A key thing the researchers went in thinking they'd find a link (like the decades of scientists before them) because that's what they thought and wanted to prove. In this case it's best to trust the data, which is the same as any other major media studies, that showing titties even anime titties doesn't affect person's view or treatment of women. Also it's been the other GG apologist posters actually posting studies for the most part, not the other way around.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:22
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NutritiousSnack posted:A key thing the researchers went in thinking they'd find a link (like the decades of scientists before them) because that's what they thought and wanted to prove. In this case it's best to trust the data, which is the same as any other major media studies, that showing titties even anime titties doesn't affect person's view or treatment of women. hm. on the other hand: the entirety of your existence (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 30, 2015 22:24
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NutritiousSnack posted:Also it's been the other GG apologist posters actually posting studies for the most part, not the other way around. Yeah, stealing them too, great job Gamergate! Also it's too bad D&D and comics were killed in the 80s 
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Jun 30, 2015 22:28
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NutritiousSnack posted:A key thing the researchers went in thinking they'd find a link (like the decades of scientists before them) because that's what they thought and wanted to prove. In this case it's best to trust the data, which is the same as any other major media studies, that showing titties even anime titties doesn't affect person's view or treatment of women. Posting studies that don't actually support their claims in any way. Which is really like not posting any studies at all if you think about it, except that it wastes everyone's time.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:29
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Tezzor posted:Sincere question: Do you think there is some combination of words in the library of babel that might make me believe for a moment that you are motivated here by concern for women instead of people saying mean words about the silly corporate fuckandroid you can't even touch Your the only person who defends sweat shops if they create t shirts for affluent white feminists in the West. Actually make an argument on how sexuality depictions of women in media is universally bad no matter the circumstances and manner, then whatever debate. Don't try to go meta poster on the nature of the opposition given your actual history of "discussion" on this. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 30, 2015 22:29
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Who What Now posted:Posting studies that don't actually support their claims in any way. Which is really like not posting any studies at all if you think about it, except that it wastes everyone's time. The study found no link to sexualized depictions of women to an increase of sexism.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:30
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Freakazoid_ posted:Here is another video people should watch. The funny thing about this is that the "enemies of the left" he lists are all despicable people who are responsible for many ills in society, and the "enemies of the right" are people in pursuit of correct goals. Unsurprisingly, Cleese could not penetrate this because he was and is the personification of stuffy cluelessness when it comes to social issues. Indeed one could call many of his pieces the precursor to lovely South Park reasoning.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:30
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Cheesecake, in a vacuum, is not a bad thing. The problem is that we don't operate in a vacuum, and a large proportion of female video game characters seem to exist solely to titillate rather than be actual people within a narrative. That affects people's perception of it as a genre and its audience (it's immature and for sex-starved teenage boys).
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Jun 30, 2015 22:34
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NutritiousSnack posted:Your the only person who defends sweat shops if they create t shirts for affluent white feminists in the West. How strange to find a gater throw out a weak accusation of hypocrisy based on half-remembered slander by idiots in an attempt to discredit his obvious better, rather than defend his shithead opinions. These are roughly as rare as atoms on the surface of the earth
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Jun 30, 2015 22:35
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NutritiousSnack posted:The study found no link to sexualized depictions of women to an increase of sexism. Yes, one singular study that also did not conclude that such a thing could be ruled out. It's really weird that you would keep forgetting to include that very important tidbit. I wonder if it's because you're lazy, stupid, or a liar? My bet's on a combination of all three! And you know there's an edit button right? And that you don't have to keep hitting reply like a spaz. EDIT VVVVVV Oh my god you are just too precious.
Who What Now fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 22:36
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Weirdo posted:Yeah, stealing them too, great job Gamergate! Also it's too bad D&D and comics were killed in the 80s They weren't killed because a vocal group of supporters stood up to defend them and the dumb critique being leveled at them. Kind of like now with gaming.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:37
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Who What Now posted:Yes, one singular study that also did not conclude that such a thing could be ruled out. It's really weird that you would keep forgetting to include that very important tidbit. I wonder if it's because you're lazy, stupid, or a liar? My bet's on a combination of all three! Almost no studies conclude a thing could be ruled out. If this is your standard of argument for the debate and discussion forums, it's utterly hilarious because it flies in the face of most of the collected evidence accumulated in every thread present.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:39
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natetimm posted:They weren't killed because a vocal group of supporters stood up to defend them and the dumb critique being leveled at them. Kind of like now with gaming. Not even going to touch the topic of stealing or is that a sacred cow w.r.t 4chan culture?
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Jun 30, 2015 22:39
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Not So Fast posted:Cheesecake, in a vacuum, is not a bad thing. yeah so we need more male video game characters with their balls hanging out, i said that already
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Jun 30, 2015 22:40
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Weirdo posted:Not even going to touch the topic of stealing or is that a sacred cow w.r.t 4chan culture? I didn't steal anything, and the fact you want to hysterically complain about a study making its way onto the internet is a hilarious attempt to redirect the discussion.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:40
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natetimm posted:Almost no studies conclude a thing could be ruled out. Many studies conclude a thing can be ruled out.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:41
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natetimm posted:They weren't killed because a vocal group of supporters stood up to defend them and the dumb critique being leveled at them. Kind of like now with gaming. Just to clarify, the "dumb critique" of gaming you are referring to is that games are generally too violent? Or that they are generally sexist?
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Jun 30, 2015 22:43
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natetimm posted:I didn't steal anything, and the fact you want to hysterically complain about a study making its way onto the internet is a hilarious attempt to redirect the discussion. Like comparing 80s moral panics to Gamergate? And I was asking about Gamergators stealing studies, the side you seem to defending.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:43
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Obdicut posted:Many studies conclude a thing can be ruled out. Look, all the evidence in the presented study points in the same direction multiple studies on the effect of fiction has for years. The fact that people still desperately clutch to the fact that is hasn't been ruled out completely is pretty indicative of them believing what they want to in the face of contradicting data.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:43
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Weirdo posted:Like comparing 80s moral panics to Gamergate? 80s moral panics are the moral panics of the left today. It's a different group of people doing it, but it's still the same bullshit using the same lack of evidence to prop up political stances.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:44
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natetimm posted:80s moral panics are the moral panics of the left today. It's a different group of people doing it, but it's still the same bullshit using the same lack of evidence to prop up political stances. So this really is just a left-versus-right thing? Maybe as a Gamergator you can explain why the gently caress anyone thinks Ted Beale is great figurehead.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:46
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Tezzor posted:don't criticize this woman's clothing unless you are some kind of puritan opposed to women's bodies. sistah's doin it for herself!! *sistah is a 100% fictional character deliberately designed and marketed to appeal to juvenile male sexuality in a corporate studio atmosphere assuredly upwards of 90% male* are you copying wholecloth from your hellthread posts now? Clipperton posted:yeah so we need more male video game characters with their balls hanging out, i said that already I agree!
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Jun 30, 2015 22:47
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Not an Owl posted:Just to clarify, the "dumb critique" of gaming you are referring to is that games are generally too violent? Or that they are generally sexist? The dumb critique is that having tropes, clichés, or any sort of representation of "wrong think" in fantasy is somehow poisoning the minds of people. It's bullshit when the right does it, and it's bullshit when the left does it. People don't need to be protected from offensive things in fantasy by political agents.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:47
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Who What Now posted:Yes, one singular study that also did not conclude that such a thing could be ruled out. It's really weird that you would keep forgetting to include that very important tidbit. I wonder if it's because you're lazy, stupid, or a liar? My bet's on a combination of all three! There have been a multitude of these studies that found no link between violence, sexism, or the like in any form of media. Add that This was study was commissioned for openly political reasons believing they'd find one. No scientific study is going to do that period with a concept as broad as sexism. Obdicut posted:Many studies conclude a thing can be ruled out. Please post the definitive studies ruling out media doesn't effect aggression or sexism in it's audience. Because you will but only but ones commissioned by political groups innovating free speech and the like, with those defintive statements widely ignored. NutritiousSnack fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 22:48
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natetimm posted:The dumb critique is that having tropes, clichés, or any sort of representation of "wrong think" in fantasy is somehow poisoning the minds of people. It's bullshit when the right does it, and it's bullshit when the left does it. People don't need to be protected from offensive things in fantasy by political agents. Unless of course those things are women that don't have their tits hanging out.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:50
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Also let me go ahead here:NutritiousSnack posted:Actually make an argument on how sexuality depictions of women in media is universally bad no matter the circumstances and manner, then whatever debate. Sexualization of women in media may or may not be bad depending on the circumstances or manner. There are too many factors to claim it's "good" or "bad" in all circumstances in theory or practice. Which if you were basically sapient and capable of understanding basic concepts you would know is not under dispute. What I am criticizing is not Any Sexualized Woman in Any Media Ever. What I am criticizing is this hilarious idea that some busty dead-eyed tittygolem whose design, construction, puppetteering, and every thought and word was designed and built by men for men under the orders of other men, is actually a symbol of female empowerment. Do you even believe that?
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Jun 30, 2015 22:50
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Tezzor posted:Also let me go ahead here: Well if you WANT to talk about WWE divas we need a new thread!
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Jun 30, 2015 22:52
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NutritiousSnack posted:There have been a multitude of these studies that found no link between violence, sexism, or the like in any form of media. These studies are mostly useless anyway. People's beliefs are affected by the sum of everything they experience, rather than an immediate reaction to a single bit of media. The only way you could get a conclusive study on this sort of thing is if you adopted a bunch of young children and carefully controlled what media they were allowed to watch for years.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:53
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Ddraig posted:Unless of course those things are women that don't have their tits hanging out. That's the rub though, isn't it? The overwhelming response to people complaining about journalists in this thread has been if you don't like them don't read them, but then that entire mindset gets thrown out the window when it comes to consuming video games because apparently they are the true devil that needs to be stamped out through political action. You can't have it both ways. Either it's open season on both journalists and games in the political arena, or it's neither.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:53
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natetimm posted:The dumb critique is that having tropes, clichés, or any sort of representation of "wrong think" in fantasy is somehow poisoning the minds of people. It's bullshit when the right does it, and it's bullshit when the left does it. People don't need to be protected from offensive things in fantasy by political agents. I don't think it poisons the mind or anything. Just seems kinda dumb. If you're gonna have a bunch of sex in a witcher game showing triss in her full glory and then shying away from showing geralt's dick strikes me as a bit off. I guess that's how it is in Poland tho.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:54
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Panzeh posted:I don't think it poisons the mind or anything. Just seems kinda dumb. If you're gonna have a bunch of sex in a witcher game showing triss in her full glory and then shying away from showing geralt's dick strikes me as a bit off. This is a reasonable opinion. The idea that showing naked women in TW3 is somehow oppressive or causing societal problems is not.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:56
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Zerilan posted:The only way you could get a conclusive study on this sort of thing is if you adopted a bunch of young children and carefully controlled what media they were allowed to watch for years. Which is the problem honestly, but what we can gleam from science is media has substantially small effect on the human psyche and it's biological factors and in person interaction that shape what a person acts like, not the Simpsons. Ironically this might be why trolling and online behavior is so toxic but common. It's impossible for most people to continuously humanize people who they will never see or hear or interact without doing so directly.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:57
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natetimm posted:This is a reasonable opinion. The idea that showing naked women in TW3 is somehow oppressive or causing societal problems is not. I think how much people get outraged over a few critics that would like for games to have less naked women in them is more showing of societal problems than the content of the games themselves.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:58
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NutritiousSnack posted:Same, when a man sees a women displaying, ugh sexuality, it overrides other character traits. We have know admitting sexuality or display it without shame might give women or men a non warped perception of but pride, self esteem, and sensuality are things no real woman feels. When 90% of women in video games look like that, this tends to be true.
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Jun 30, 2015 23:00
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Zerilan posted:I think how much people get outraged over a few critics that would like for games to have less naked women in them is more showing of societal problems than the content of the games themselves. There's nothing wrong with naked women other than people who have internalized puritanical American views on sex and crapped them back out into a box marked "feminism".
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Jun 30, 2015 23:00
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natetimm posted:The dumb critique is that having tropes, clichés, or any sort of representation of "wrong think" in fantasy is somehow poisoning the minds of people. It's bullshit when the right does it, and it's bullshit when the left does it. People don't need to be protected from offensive things in fantasy by political agents. Would a thoughtful critique be that tropes, cliches, and offensive representations of women in fantasy are regressive? That women should be able to play a fantasy game and experience positive depictions of her sex as often as men experience positive depictions of their sex? That game developers should avoid sexist cliches because it is disappointing for women to play such games and only encounter the same tired and negative portrayals of their sex?
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Jun 30, 2015 23:01
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Tezzor posted:How strange to find a gater throw out a weak accusation of hypocrisy based on half-remembered slander by idiots in an attempt to discredit his obvious better, rather than defend his shithead opinions. These are roughly as rare as atoms on the surface of the earth You did defend sweat shops and their wages though, then turned around and accused everyone else of pretending to care about feminism when they called you on it. 
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Jun 30, 2015 23:01
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Not an Owl posted:Would a thoughtful critique be that tropes, cliches, and offensive representations of women in fantasy are regressive? That women should be able to play a fantasy game and experience positive depictions of her sex as often as men experience positive depictions of their sex? That game developers should avoid sexist cliches because it is disappointing for women to play such games and only encounter the same tired and negative portrayals of their sex? Every game doesn't have to be specifically tailored to this mindset and there are plenty that fit the bill nicely. That fact that some don't is neither regressive or bad, it's a matter of taste.
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Jun 30, 2015 23:02
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I've been in Computer Science and the surrounding culture for almost 15 years and I have yet to find an effective counter to troll culture. They evolve just as fast as the medium. Short of removing anonymity entirely, or drastically increasing the powers of net surveillance, it's basically whackamole.
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Jun 30, 2015 23:03
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InsanityIsCrazy posted:I agree!  only when i can play this in a video game will we be truly free
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Jun 30, 2015 23:03
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