|
poptart_fairy posted:On the other hand everyone in this thread complains that something isn't important or relevant until it suddenly is, at which point it gets argued about for six hours by people trying to outdo one another with how little they care. This post doesn't make any sense, nor does it describe anything happening in this thread. Can you name something I said wasn't important or relevant and then argued about how little I care about it?
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 16:49 |
|
|
Effectronica posted:My response, Totalizator, was as people have explained to you. But it's also worth noting that very few actions we do are motivated by a single desire, so it's actually an amazing rhetorical stance to demand pure misogyny to be located before you might condemn it. Outside of that trick speech, though, it's a clear sign that your mind is closed. This is the post I was replying to: Ddraig posted:I don't know, maybe it's because Anita posted a week's worth of comments directed at her from people who support gamergate (of course, they're no true gamergaters, so that's no evidence of anything) which are virtually all attacking her for being a woman If you make this claim yes, I will demand pure misoginy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:14
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:This post doesn't make any sense, nor does it describe anything happening in this thread. Can you name something I said wasn't important or relevant and then argued about how little I care about it? She has nothing to do with Gamergate! Argues about her, endlessly, in the Gamergate thread. It's why I found this thread much funnier when people were just exchanging stupid twitter warfare rather than making huge paragraphs about what's relevant and what isn't.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:16
|
|
poptart_fairy posted:On the other hand everyone in this thread complains that something isn't important or relevant until it suddenly is, at which point it gets argued about for six hours by people trying to outdo one another with how little they care. Actually, what happens is that people ask someone, like you, why something is relevant. Because you have a broken brain and are incapable of discussion, you interpret this as saying it isn't relevant. Then you start making bizarre posts like these. Because the gator refugees in this thread have a limited ability to discuss things and hate the thought of it, this thread is largely pointless except as a means to be mean to people. So, basically, you're a zoo exhibit and will remain so until you figure out how to talk with people. I'd wish you luck on this quest, but...
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:17
|
|
Totalizator posted:This is the post I was replying to: Then your mind is closed.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:18
|
|
|
Effectronica posted:Actually, what happens is that people ask someone, like you, why something is relevant. Because you have a broken brain and are incapable of discussion, you interpret this as saying it isn't relevant. Then you start making bizarre posts like these. Nobody can do Tezzor better than Tezzor.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:18
|
|
|
poptart_fairy posted:She has nothing to do with Gamergate! This doesn't fit what you said, though, because you said 'suddenly it is'. I don't think she's relevant to the actual stated aims of GamerGate in terms of 'ethics in games journalism'. I do think the attacks on her are relevant to the reality of GamerGate. This has been my consistent position throughout the thread. What confuses you about this? It seems pretty straightforward to me. quote:It's why I found this thread much funnier when people were just exchanging stupid twitter warfare rather than making huge paragraphs about what's relevant and what isn't. Well, the latter isn't actually happening, so maybe read those dauntingly large paragraphs a bit closer--actually, if you're just looking for humor, I'm not sure why you're looking in a thread on GG in D&D. May I suggest, depending on your tastes in humor, the PYF funny pictures thread or GBS in general?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:19
|
|
|
circ dick soleil posted:Wait, why is Dan Hsu on that list? Meh, who knows. They really shouldn't add people to the list without documentation, but v  v
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:19
|
|
|
InsanityIsCrazy posted:How many of those are legitimate people angry at her views? How many were doing it for free smash codes? How many were GNAA plants? The source of the tweets and their individual motives would be fascinating to examine, I agree. I'm not sure there is a way to do that, especially at volume. We can begin to examine patterns of thought, common arguments and the like. From there we can at least speculate on motives in general. Should we start to do that? Totalizator posted:It's worth pointing out female supporters of gamergate got MUCH WORSE treatment from Anita fans, a couple days ago I seen a blog where a girl suffering from PTSD was doxxed and seriously abused (like people making fake phone calls pretending to be her mother who was her abuser), but none of this gets any media attention or a dedicated tumblr and the media runs with "gamergate harasses women". I can't immediately find the blog but I found this instead https://archive.is/GEYkU#selection-659.1-662.0 If you're going for the harassment angle, Anita got thousands of dollars and multiple tv appearances, these people get nothing but posts from "feminists" telling them they're sockpuppets and fakes. Ddraig posted:I'm not entirely sure you've read that blog post because it's specifically about Gamergate harassing a woman. Totalizator posted:whoops, I admit i just skimmed that. https://jennofhardwire.wordpress.co...ment-of-gamers/ It isn't updated any more but it has screencaps the dedicated tumblr you mention does not, for example. So I gather the big issue here is that there are a lot of women that are receiving similar harassment, and they don't get coverage outside of gamergate-specific blogs and youtube videos? Is your contention that at least some of the pseudonymously-directed harassment should be part of a collage in the next bit piece on online harassment of women, and that identifiable individuals should be at least given a chance to make a media appearance somewhere in the media other than Huffpost Live? If so, I agree. That sounds reasonable. Do you have any further contentions as to why the media is not giving them more coverage, or at least opportunities for coverage like links to the blogs or tweets of the specific victims where they talk about it? Do you think it might be possible for someone to tread a similar path of starting small via kickstarter/indiegogo and end up with public speaking engagements and actual media coverage within a similar timeframe of a little over 2 years?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:24
|
|
|
Cardboard Box A posted:I don't know. How many were literal children following along with their friends on the internet? How many were inveterate trolls jumping on a target of opportunity after prompting from other like-minded trolls? How many were expressing a sincere belief that death threats really aren't a big deal in gaming? How many were reacting a perceived threat to their gaming culture? It's probably all of those and more. I don't doubt that it's a lot, or that this is but a small sample. I imagine anyone who tried would realize that nobody could pay them enough to continue.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:27
|
|
|
InsanityIsCrazy posted:I imagine anyone who tried would realize that nobody could pay them enough to continue. And/or the end result of a study like would basically be: "Twitter is the worst".
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:32
|
|
|
poptart_fairy posted:It's funny saying this because plenty of people have criticized her while still talking down on the harassment and insults but they still get lumped in with the "die stupid oval office" folk, lol. I'd urge you to actually read this again, because not even Anita is doing this, and she is the one who would stand to gain the most from such tactics: http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/109319269825/one-week-of-harassment-on-twitter Absolutely every single thing posted on this post under the title of "One Week of Harrasment" is not actually valid criticism of her ideas.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:34
|
|
|
I understand that a lot of shitposters are showing up in the thread, and poptart_fairy is a notoriously bad poster, but I still don't think the ones choosing to attempt to argue on behalf of GG should be 3day probed so soon. I imagine it feeds into their persecution complex, and is just going to make them think their point is proven. A 6er would have prolly been fine.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:34
|
|
|
 A tired veteran of the twitter wars.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:39
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:Do you really seriously believe they're attacking Anita for being a woman and nothing else? They're doing it for attention. Gamergate is like pro-wrestling and Anita has become the heel. Gamers get riled up with every video and tweet she makes no matter how mundane it is. Everyone on both sides is getting off on the attention she's getting. People criticizing Anita get views for having Anita in their videos, and Anita gets views and up-votes for getting more attention from her haters. Did anyone plan on this happening? Probably not, but that's the situation so why not capitalize on it? Gamergate is a way for unemployed people to get notoriety and hopefully make youtube and patreon bucks and we're the suckers for allowing ourselves to get caught up in it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:41
|
|
|
Ddraig posted:I'd urge you to actually read this again, because not even Anita is doing this, and she is the one who would stand to gain the most from such tactics: You are a despicable whore: Anita is certainly despised by a non-zero fraction of the gaming community, thus this tweet is somewhat accurate. Not Pure Misogyny kill yourself feminists are a waste of air also more games should have girl characters half naked such as "Tomb Raider etc: this tweet showcases a willingness to compromise with feminist suggestions. Not Pure Misogyny Like really we could go on, but I'm not finding any Purestrain Misogyny here, just people with normal emotional responses within the gaming community, you know, the stuff you hear on Xbox Live.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:45
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:I imagine it feeds into their persecution complex, and is just going to make them think their point is proven. The most infuriating thing about them by far. A majority of them will turn it around and make it look YOU have the persecution complex its the most lame type of projection there is
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:49
|
|
|
Calde posted:You are a despicable whore: Anita is certainly despised by a non-zero fraction of the gaming community, thus this tweet is somewhat accurate. Not Pure Misogyny Well you see, Sarkeesian sells herself (in a round about way) so technically she is a whore. Not Misogyny 
Tokamak fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jul 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:50
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:Why am I desperate? What will happen if you continue to believe, against facts and statements of gamergate supporters themselves, that they're ACTUALLY about harassing women and preventing them from making games? Your mind is clearly made up about it. I'm just debating in the debate thread. Ddraig posted:I don't know, maybe it's because Anita posted a week's worth of comments directed at her from people who support gamergate (of course, they're no true gamergaters, so that's no evidence of anything) which are virtually all attacking her for being a woman and the first thing you decided to do to prove that this wasn't the case was post a blog about a very personal attack someone had on them from "Gamergaters" without even bothering to read it first. Totalizator posted:Do you really seriously believe they're attacking Anita for being a woman and nothing else? Like there is no legitimate reason someone might dislike her or her views, it's just her vagina? What about Johnathan, he is a white male, what are they attacking him for? He's clearly not a woman, why would gamergaters have an issue with him if they just hate women for being women? Totalizator posted:If you make this claim yes, I will demand pure misoginy. I will restate my earlier argument that it's about how you treat people you like, it's about how you treat people you hate. And if many of her attackers already dislike her because they perceive her as attacking the games they like, the "gaming culture" they like, or them personally as gamers, that plays a part too. And if you want to make the argument that classism also plays a part, I agree. There are a myriad of possible factors and you've given us a few to discuss already. poptart_fairy posted:It's funny saying this because plenty of people have criticized her while still talking down on the harassment and insults but they still get lumped in with the "die stupid oval office" folk, lol. poptart_fairy posted:She has nothing to do with Gamergate! InsanityIsCrazy posted:I imagine anyone who tried would realize that nobody could pay them enough to continue. BexGu posted:And/or the end result of a study like would basically be: "Twitter is the worst".
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:51
|
|
|
Race Realists posted:The most infuriating thing about them by far. I just assume 3 day probations handed out exclusively to people who don't embrace Goodthink and six hour or no probations for people posting literally no content or openly trolling Badthinkers is just how D&D operates normally, and is pretty much what you would expect to happen when engaging an echo chamber type of subforum.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:52
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:I just assume 3 day probations handed out exclusively for people who don't embrace Goodthink and six hour or no probations for people posting literally no content or openly trolling Badthinkers is just how D&D operates normally, and is pretty much what you would expect to happen when engaging an echo chamber type of subforum. I'm disappointed you went with "echo chamber" rather than the classic "hug box". Perhaps you should tell us how little you care so we can tick that off the list, too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:56
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:I just assume 3 day probations handed out exclusively to people who don't embrace Goodthink and six hour or no probations for people posting literally no content or openly trolling Badthinkers is just how D&D operates normally, and is pretty much what you would expect to happen when engaging an echo chamber type of subforum. While you occasionally actually engage, you spend a lot of time running away from arguments and refusing to actually come to grips with what you've said. You very much characterized the tweet about segregated classrooms as advocacy for it; it is very clearly not. Yet you're not probated--though some of your contentless posts might mean that's just upcoming. For example, you cited a long list of links you claimed supported you. I checked a random one, as did someone else, and they didn't. Do you think that's good posting?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 15:56
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:While you occasionally actually engage, you spend a lot of time running away from arguments and refusing to actually come to grips with what you've said. You very much characterized the tweet about segregated classrooms as advocacy for it; it is very clearly not. Yet you're not probated--though some of your contentless posts might mean that's just upcoming. You interpreted these articles to mean something something else then what people who they were written about interpreted them as. We could talk about it but it all comes to pedantic "but they didn't mean ALL gamers, just the BAD ones" and argue about it in circles but that already happened. The classroom post will still be viewed by different people as different things too, the fact that you think that only people who are clearly out there to slander poor Anita will interpret it in a bad way is still your assertion based on nothing but expecting everyone is as well versed in american segregation history as you are. Ddraig posted:I'm disappointed you went with "echo chamber" rather than the classic "hug box". My first probation was actually for a post where I was telling someone I care, sorry to dissapoint.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:01
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:people who don't embrace Goodthink Badthinkers Allow me to be blunt: gently caress off with your bullshit 1984 comparisons. You and numerous other insufferable people online (usually Racial Realists/Not-Racists) use this type of phrasing when you're think being clever. Stop. no seriously, stop
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:01
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:You interpreted these articles to mean something something else then what people who they were written about interpreted them as. We could talk about it but it all comes to pedantic "but they didn't mean ALL gamers, just the BAD ones" and argue about it in circles but that already happened. The classroom post will still be viewed by different people as different things too, the fact that you think that only people who are clearly out there to slander poor Anita will interpret it in a bad way is still your assertion based on nothing but expecting everyone is as well versed in american segregation history as you are. The tweet directly mentions her referencing some studies. Did you even consider for a single second that perhaps you should take some time to find out what those studies might be before jumping to the conclusion that she was actually advocating for segregated classrooms? I'm serious, did the thought of actually obtaining some context ever cross your mind? EDIT For the record I know next to dick-all about segregated classrooms except for what most other people know and I sure as hell did't assume she was advocating for them, because she very clearly did not say or even imply that. You actively had to make up that implication in your own head. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jul 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:05
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:I just assume 3 day probations handed out exclusively to people who don't embrace Goodthink and six hour or no probations for people posting literally no content or openly trolling Badthinkers is just how D&D operates normally, and is pretty much what you would expect to happen when engaging an echo chamber type of subforum. Nah, if that were true I'd have gotten probated awhile ago. Cardboard Box A posted:I will restate my earlier argument that it's about how you treat people you like, it's about how you treat people you hate. And if many of her attackers already dislike her because they perceive her as attacking the games they like, the "gaming culture" they like, or them personally as gamers, that plays a part too. This is a big part of the problem. Since this is the internet, those that dislike another person just go all out in rear end in a top hat mode. And instead of criticizing her content and analysis, it is 'she is attacking games!' or 'she's not a real one of us guys!' or 'McIntosh is the Wizard of Oz!', things that are totally irrelevant. Those voices tend to drown out reasonable critique by a large margin. Then again, debate on the internet is rarely civil or nuanced. It is even worse when you throw twitter into the mix.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:08
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:The tweet directly mentions her referencing some studies. Did you even consider for a single second that perhaps you should take some time to find out what those studies might be before jumping to the conclusion that she was actually advocating for segregated classrooms? I'm serious, did the thought of actually obtaining some context ever cross your mind? The enemies are strong enough to require constant vigilance lest they destroy us, yet weak enough that we don't really need to put any effort into it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:08
|
|
|
Gianthogweed posted:They're doing it for attention. Gamergate is like pro-wrestling and Anita has become the heel. Gamers get riled up with every video and tweet she makes no matter how mundane it is. Everyone on both sides is getting off on the attention she's getting. People criticizing Anita get views for having Anita in their videos, and Anita gets views and up-votes for getting more attention from her haters. Did anyone plan on this happening? Probably not, but that's the situation so why not capitalize on it? Gamergate is a way for unemployed people to get notoriety and hopefully make youtube and patreon bucks and we're the suckers for allowing ourselves to get caught up in it. For example, yes Thunderf00t has made mostly Anita videos since she burst onto the scene, that's true. But does this invalidate or obviate his specific anti-feminist agenda and philosophy in doing so? What I am arguing is that he is in fact not doing it JUST for attention and views. Similarly as much as we make fun of The Sarkeesian Effect documentary, partially because of their philosophy and viewpoint, I would say that it is still important that they have a philosophy and a point of view (also anti-feminist, and anti "social justice warrior") they are trying to argue. This can be discussed and analyzed. Totalizator posted:I just assume 3 day probations handed out exclusively to people who don't embrace Goodthink and six hour or no probations for people posting literally no content or openly trolling Badthinkers is just how D&D operates normally, and is pretty much what you would expect to happen when engaging an echo chamber type of subforum. Totalizator posted:You interpreted these articles to mean something something else then what people who they were written about interpreted them as. We could talk about it but it all comes to pedantic "but they didn't mean ALL gamers, just the BAD ones" and argue about it in circles but that already happened. Dapper Dan posted:This is a big part of the problem. Since this is the internet, those that dislike another person just go all out in rear end in a top hat mode. And instead of criticizing her content and analysis, it is 'she is attacking games!' or 'she's not a real one of us guys!' or 'McIntosh is the Wizard of Oz!', things that are totally irrelevant. Those voices tend to drown out reasonable critique by a large margin. The issue of how different platforms with different modes of operation, like twitter, can encourage or discourage civility and perhaps "good speech" is an important and related one. Assepoester fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Jul 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:12
|
|
|
I figure I should afford Anita's tweets the same amount of contextual consideration as she does when she discusses video games, thus her tweets are straight up racist. Sorry guys.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:12
|
|
|
Totalizator posted:You interpreted these articles to mean something something else then what people who they were written about interpreted them as. No, I didn't. Let me recall it for you, since you're really bad at this. You claimed: quote:They [sjws] do not wish for inclusion, they want gamers out of gaming so they can take it over and rebuild it as a tool for social justice. And for once I will source my opinion. Here: Here is the article I picked at random: https://archive.is/KXpV4 This article in no way supports your position that 'sjws' want to destroy gaming and take it over and rebuild it--which is a really crazy-sounding claim, I hope you realize. quote:The classroom post will still be viewed by different people as different things too, the fact that you think that only people who are clearly out there to slander poor Anita will interpret it in a bad way is still your assertion based on nothing but expecting everyone is as well versed in american segregation history as you are. Again, to interpret it in a 'bad way' would be to assume that she is also sexist, since she's talking about gender and race segregated classrooms. Does this make the slightest iota of sense as an interpretation? No. So yeah, it's only going to be people attacking her without taking any time to understand any context who will interpret it in a bad way. This is the way you interpreted it, because you didn't actually care what she said. I should remind you your original objection was not "It could be taken wrong", but instead the untruth that she was simply advocating gender-segregated classrooms in that tweet, and that advocating that was 'radical', even though gender and race segregated colleges, segregated to make up for the lack of minority and female inclusion in the mainstream, continuing to exist because of the bias against women and minorities in the mainstream, are old and stodgy and not at all radical. You are now backpedaling and trying to say that it's just that other people might misinterpret it, but that wasn't your original position.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:14
|
|
|
Cardboard Box A posted:Can you think of any other reasons these probations of these lengths were handed out? Of course not! Now let me tell you why these threats calling her a stupid twat aren't actually just products of misogyny. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jul 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:14
|
|
|
Powercrazy posted:I figure I should afford Anita's tweets the same amount of contextual consideration as she does when she discusses video games, thus her tweets are straight up racist. Sorry guys. Can you show me a straight-up racist tweet, please?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:14
|
|
|
Muh Soggy Knee (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:16
|
|
|
Powercrazy posted:I figure I should afford Anita's tweets the same amount of contextual consideration as she does when she discusses video games, thus her tweets are straight up racist. Sorry guys. Is this more or less contextual consideration than your defense of drunk driving and pedophilia is worthy of?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:19
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:
I'll go on record as saying that I actually would love to get gamers out of gaming because they have thoroughly ruined it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:22
|
|
|
Ddraig posted:Is this more or less contextual consideration than your defense of drunk driving and pedophilia is worthy of? Pretening that voluntary segregation is the same thing as forced segregation is a very weird position. It reminds me of the people who point to black people preferring to live in neighborhoods that are majority black as proof that black people are racist and/or that segregation wasn't a big deal. Who What Now posted:
I still don't know what a gamer is.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:22
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:I still don't know what a gamer is. Everyone, and no one.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:26
|
|
|
I'll go on record as saying that I actually would love to get gamers out of gaming because they have thoroughly ruined it. [/quote] LOOK CEE GUYS THIS IZ WHAT WERE UP AGAINST THEY HATE R HOBBY
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:28
|
|
|
InsanityIsCrazy posted:Everyone, and no one. I think what that Twitch report showed is that when it's convenient for them to include casual gamers--people playing Candy Crush on their phone--in order to demonstrate supposed diversity, they do so, but that is not the same population of gamers they actually serve, as shown by their streams. Moreover, from any marketing, production, or any other perspective, a casual game like candy crush, delivered on the phone, is as different from, say, Shadows of Mordor as is a "Kids React" video on youtube from Mad Max. They have no real point of connection.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 16:49 |
|
|
Ddraig posted:Is this more or less contextual consideration than your defense of drunk driving and pedophilia is worthy of? I judge people by their own morals. Since Anita ignores the context of the video game world when she judges videogames as problematic or whatever then that implies that since Anita said she was for segregation in classrooms on the basis of sex and race, that is both sexist and racist. My own statements take into consideration legal and possibly conversational context. And should be judged in those contexts. Obdicut posted:Can you show me a straight-up racist tweet, please? The one where she was advocating for classroom segregation based on sex (and race).
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 16:31
|
|