World of Warships: just had a dev team that did everything wrong

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Hazdoc: Nov 8, 2012; Muscovy Ducks are a large tropical breed, famous for their lean and extremely flavorful meat.

Hazduck!

~SMcD

Burno posted:

It was always that way since I have been playing (March)

You can see long lances at like 10km where you wont even see a Minekaze's torps when they are dropped at the 7km range, until they get much closer. People who get hit by the long lances at 20km are basically afk or blind. Which is why those long range kills were the most amusing, especially if they complained.

Ok the 10km spotting on the long lances is an exaggeration, but it is quite a bit longer spotting than those 7km torps.

I did a quick search and found this:
code:
The upgraded torpedoes:
 
Umikaze: 0.8km (range 8km, speed 48 knots)
Minekaze: 1.3km (range 10km, speed 57 knots)
Shimakaze: 2.1km (range 15km, speed 67 knots)
 
The Shimikaze's stock torps (20km) are also spotted from 2.1km, so it's not range based.
 
Sampson: 0.9km (range 4.5km, speed 54 knots)
Nicholas: 1.5km (range  5.5km, speed 65 knots)
Gearing: 1.6km (range 16.5km, speed 66 knots).
 
Zao: 2.4km (range 8km, speed 76 knots)
 
Gremyashchy: 1.3km (range 8km, 55 knots)

Is that data from wargaming, or from a player test? That seems a bit more realistic, as I was about to call you out on 10km detection range being hilariously impossible. Torpedo visibility was changed a couple of patches back, especially in regards to airplane spotting. If they ever add a custom game mode, this would probably be one of the first things I'd test. I'll have to keep a mental note to be a guinea pig for enemy DDs to see how soon their torps appear, as I was under the assumption that the range is constant (and I still think is, but I have to conduct a test first to confirm or deny).

Edit: Actually, looking at the data, its possible torpedo detection is based on the size of the torpedo, as both of the Shimakaze's torps are long lances, one just has a heavier payload and less range.

Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jul 4, 2015

# ? Jul 4, 2015 13:24

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# ? May 16, 2024 05:30

Burno: Aug 6, 2012

Hazdoc posted:

Is that data from wargaming, or from a player test? That seems a bit more realistic, as I was about to call you out on 10km detection range being hilariously impossible. Torpedo visibility was changed a couple of patches back, especially in regards to airplane spotting. If they ever add a custom game mode, this would probably be one of the first things I'd test. I'll have to keep a mental note to be a guinea pig for enemy DDs to see how soon their torps appear, as I was under the assumption that the range is constant (and I still think is, but I have to conduct a test first to confirm or deny).

Edit: Actually, looking at the data, its possible torpedo detection is based on the size of the torpedo, as both of the Shimakaze's torps are long lances, one just has a heavier payload and less range.

It is from player tests I think

back on carrier chat, I am almost to Hiryu after only 1 day of carrier play

2500 avg xp per game rules

It is ridiculous how good the IJN carriers are, sure the spread is big, but you only need to hit 1 per drop and you can almost sink any ship in the game with 3 torp squads at tier 5-6. As you move up the bigger ships are usually longer so hitting 2-3 torps per spread is much easier, so still instantly killing them is easier too.

If I am the last one alive I can basically win against any odds as long as there isn't a DD driving around. :argh:

Burno fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Jul 4, 2015

# ? Jul 4, 2015 13:36

NTRabbit: Aug 15, 2012; i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches

Burno posted:

you only need to hit 1 per drop and you can almost sink any ship in the game with 3 torp squads at tier 5-6.

You must be up against some really lovely cruiser drivers

# ? Jul 4, 2015 13:57

Burno: Aug 6, 2012

NTRabbit posted:

You must be up against some really lovely cruiser drivers

You can keep saying that, but there is nothing they can do when you manual drop right next to them. They can turn all they want, I will just move my planes a bit and still drop it on their side, and at least one torpedo will hit them.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 14:03

Trump: Jul 16, 2003; Cute

Burno posted:

You can keep saying that, but there is nothing they can do when you manual drop right next to them. They can turn all they want, I will just move my planes a bit and still drop it on their side, and at least one torpedo will hit them.

And when they can put to squadrons directly on top of each other and drops the torps right loving next to you, there is nothing you can do.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 14:33

Hazdoc: Nov 8, 2012; Muscovy Ducks are a large tropical breed, famous for their lean and extremely flavorful meat.

Hazduck!

~SMcD

Burno posted:

You can keep saying that, but there is nothing they can do when you manual drop right next to them. They can turn all they want, I will just move my planes a bit and still drop it on their side, and at least one torpedo will hit them.

I've had trouble dodging manual drops as a DD, so yeah, its pretty unbearable right now. Especially if the CV pilot does the cross formation where if you turn into one spread, you expose your side to another spread and die. Until wargaming nerfs them, they'll be a great xp farm, though. I should grab a Langley and grind it up, but that's :effort:

and I'm out of credits.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 14:41

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Just started playing this. It's a lot of fun!

# ? Jul 4, 2015 14:48

NTRabbit: Aug 15, 2012; i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches

I'm not having any problems with manual torpedo drops, and if you're getting tier 5/6 torpedo bombers that close to tier 6/7 cruisers you must be up against some lovely drivers with stock hulls

# ? Jul 4, 2015 14:57

Godlessdonut: Sep 13, 2005

Hazdoc posted:

Edit: Actually, looking at the data, its possible torpedo detection is based on the size of the torpedo, as both of the Shimakaze's torps are long lances, one just has a heavier payload and less range.

Maybe it's speed based, with a different baseline for US and IJN torpedoes.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 15:18

Wistful of Dollars: Aug 25, 2009

So, have they released the T-59 of of WoWS yet? :haw:

Just started playing; I enjoy this game.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 15:59

Lovely Joe Stalin: Jun 12, 2007; Our Lovely Wang

It's the Warspite.

Edit: I haven't actually played the Warspite yet, but it's clearly the best. It's the loving Warspite.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 16:06

Aesis: Oct 9, 2012; Filthy J4G

I'd say Murmansk. Not too bad guns, 8 km torp range, huge gently caress off range when using plane. Just don't expect it to bounce shells like Type 59.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 16:12

xthetenth: Dec 30, 2012; Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Gremyashchy, and it's already gone.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 16:33

yaay: Aug 4, 2006; to Accursed 2 leave armour

Gapey Joe Stalin posted:

It's the Warspite.

Edit: I haven't actually played the Warspite yet, but it's clearly the best. It's the loving Warspite.

the only thing stopping me from dropping money on the warspite is my opinion that its existence is a kind of a scummy move on WG's part because they've more or less said the RN is going to be the fifth fleet into the game behind the mostly paper trees the russians and germans are going to have. so they're flipping off people who want to play as brits with one had but exploiting full advantage of that want on the other. Lest we forget it took four loving years before a tree containing the firefly was added to tanks.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 16:49

The Locator: Sep 12, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Burt posted:

Ishizuchi is an acceptable premium battleship. Does nothing outstandingly well but it's very accurate and will be a good skipper trainer.

I don't understand why they have pulled all the premiums from the in-game store for both Japan and the US. What in the hell am I supposed to use my gold for when there is nothing in the game to buy with it? Wasn't that the point of having buy gold in pre-order stuff, so that I could use it to buy stuff?

# ? Jul 4, 2015 17:01

Sneaky Kettle: Jul 4, 2010

The Locator posted:

I don't understand why they have pulled all the premiums from the in-game store for both Japan and the US. What in the hell am I supposed to use my gold for when there is nothing in the game to buy with it? Wasn't that the point of having buy gold in pre-order stuff, so that I could use it to buy stuff?

For converting your free XP.

Obviously.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 17:19

R. Mute: Jul 27, 2011

After starting out playing a few co-op battles, I have to say that playing against humans is a lot easier.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 17:28

Evil_Greven: Feb 20, 2007; Whadda I got to,
whadda I got to do
to wake ya up?

To shake ya up,
to break the structure up!?

Yeah, Bots generally have way better aim.

They're also liable to charge in and torp your rear end or flat-out ram you.

e: HE causes fire way too often. Had my Warspite lit on fire 4 times by one Omaha in a few seconds, repaired, lit on fire 4 times again within a few more seconds... burned almost all the way down before repair & +hp boost refreshed.

Evil_Greven fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jul 4, 2015

# ? Jul 4, 2015 17:31

KombatKoch: Jul 31, 2012

yaay posted:

the only thing stopping me from dropping money on the warspite is my opinion that its existence is a kind of a scummy move on WG's part because they've more or less said the RN is going to be the fifth fleet into the game behind the mostly paper trees the russians and germans are going to have. so they're flipping off people who want to play as brits with one had but exploiting full advantage of that want on the other. Lest we forget it took four loving years before a tree containing the firefly was added to tanks.

Why the hell in a game about boats is a Russian line coming out before the U.K? Russian bias!

# ? Jul 4, 2015 18:23

Vorkosigan: Mar 28, 2012

This is a Happy Time for all Japanese DDs.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 18:33

Foxtrot_13: Oct 31, 2013; Ask me about my love of genocide denial!

KombatKoch posted:

Why the hell in a game about boats is a Russian line coming out before the U.K? Russian bias!

Because Russia is Wargaiming's 2nd biggest income source and they are known to be pretty xenophobic when it comes to what they choose to play.

There are also masses of closest Nazi's so the German tree will go in before the British ones as people will spent lots of cash to buy into it.

So WG will be saving the best Navy to last

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:05

Perestroika: Apr 8, 2010

So, I haven't really played this since closed beta, and now I'm wondering what trees to go down in either nation. If I remember correctly, japanese destroyers and cruisers generally have more/better torpedoes, whereas the american counterparts tend to have better guns and AA, does that still hold true? Are there any similar broad-strokes trends for the battleships and carriers of each nation?

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:08

TheDemon: Dec 11, 2006; _{...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.}

The nice thing about boats is all the nations had fairly comparable lineups, thanks to the slow pace of ship development and building. (well, German and Russia not really included but paper boats count right?)

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:08

Vorkosigan: Mar 28, 2012

Foxtrot_13 posted:

So WG will be saving the best Navy to last

They already put America in though :colbert:

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:10

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Hazdoc posted:

I've had trouble dodging manual drops as a DD, so yeah, its pretty unbearable right now. Especially if the CV pilot does the cross formation where if you turn into one spread, you expose your side to another spread and die. Until wargaming nerfs them, they'll be a great xp farm, though. I should grab a Langley and grind it up, but that's and I'm out of credits.

The more tier 6+ games I play, the more I realize that the problem with CV's is not torpedo bombers. In my Aoba, I'm already seeing pubbies purposefully stick near each other and its not out of the ordinary to see cruiser volunteer to AA shield BB's. Its the carriers themselves and how they interact with the rest of the ships and map. Compare them to WoT arty and you will see that once you get outside of the actual mechanics they use to deal damage, CV's are far more powerful on many levels.

Look at map size vs speed. I can completely cross the biggest maps in WoT in a fast scout tank (destroyer equivalent) in what? 90 seconds? Smaller maps more like 60 seconds. Even the fastest destroyer will take several minutes or more to go from corner to corner. On top of that, arty in WoT is generally very slow, turns very slowly and has very little ability to deal damage to a scout that reaches it. It cannot fire on the move and is completely unable to influence the battle while it flees a scout. Carriers are often just as fast as the average cruiser and only modestly slower than destroyers, especially given the map size - once you get past tier 6, all carriers go at least 30knts and plenty go 33+. Some BB's can literally not catch a CV at all because the CV is faster. Furthermore, they can deal full and complete damage while fleeing at maximum speed to the opposite map corner. Their planes are barely affected, only taking longer to reload if they have to fly farther back to the carrier. Carriers also have secondary armament and can use their planes just fine at point blank range.

More and more of these mid/higher tier games are being decided by "who still has a carrier left in the mid game". As the dust starts to settle, ships are spread out and have taken damage, and really no one has the speed to hunt a carrier down before it can use its planes to scout and then execute lone ships. This isn't like WoT where an arty is always a 30 second bumrush by a WZ 132 away from being spotted and killed. Carriers have plenty of health, are generally as fast as most ships, can do everything as they speed off to safety, and are often far, far removed from any immediate or even long term danger.

Give them less health (they should be good and hosed anytime a ship gets in range of them) and maybe a penalty for moving fast (the faster you go, the longer it takes to land and launch planes).

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:13

The Locator: Sep 12, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Foxtrot_13 posted:

So WG will be saving the best Navy to last

Italians are last?

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:22

Aesis: Oct 9, 2012; Filthy J4G

37.5k AP damage (42 pen, 7 citadel) + 45.1k HE damage (112 hits) + 9.8k fire + 25.2k ramming damage (rammed Kongo during 1v4) with Cleveland and I only get 1,216 base xp even with High Caliber :argh:

I got more xp than 6 pubbies combined but this is still too low.

cheese posted:

Give them less health (they should be good and hosed anytime a ship gets in range of them) and maybe a penalty for moving fast (the faster you go, the longer it takes to land and launch planes).

IRL carriers move forward at near-max speed in order to help with take-off and landing. Just make carrier concealment so poo poo that anyone can spot it from 20 km.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:35

xthetenth: Dec 30, 2012; Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

The Locator posted:

Italians are last?

French actually.

But no seriously the French and Italians should be hilarious fun and it's annoying as hell that the horrible regime fan club needs to have their godawful ships in first.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:38

Michi88: Sep 15, 2012; Still a Pubbie Magnet
How does it work!?

It kind of feels like DDs can burn through a BB alittle too fast with guns. Or maybe it was the fact that I got jumped by two sims in a new york.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:42

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Aesis posted:

IRL carriers move forward at near-max speed in order to help with take-off and landing. Just make carrier concealment so poo poo that anyone can spot it from 20 km.

That just makes that first carrier vs carrier alpha strike battle even more standard procedure.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:42

Aesis: Oct 9, 2012; Filthy J4G

cheese posted:

That just makes that first carrier vs carrier alpha strike battle even more standard procedure.

Totally forgot about it. tbh there won't be any way to balance carriers without affecting game plays.

Michi88 posted:

It kind of feels like DDs can burn through a BB alittle too fast with guns. Or maybe it was the fact that I got jumped by two sims in a new york.

Two Sims firing nonstop and causing fire probably. Sometimes crit hits to secondaries or AA do extra damage.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:44

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Aesis posted:

Totally forgot about it. tbh there won't be any way to balance carriers without affecting game plays.

I disagree. They just need to abandon any IRL concerns. This isn't a simulator - if it was, no BB would ever fire a shot and anything bigger than a destroyer would be killed by carriers from 100 km away lol

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:46

Aesis: Oct 9, 2012; Filthy J4G

cheese posted:

I disagree. They just need to abandon any IRL concerns. This isn't a simulator - if it was, no BB would ever fire a shot and anything bigger than a destroyer would be killed by carriers from 100 km away lol

Well I guess they could add landing/take-off penalty while moving or turning, but imagine the rage this would cause to pubbies :allears:

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:47

Michi88: Sep 15, 2012; Still a Pubbie Magnet
How does it work!?

Aesis posted:

Two Sims firing nonstop and causing fire probably. Sometimes crit hits to secondaries or AA do extra damage.

I ended up in a t8 game in my New York with two t4 BB squad mates on HotSpot. Immediately we came under attack from 2 New yorks, 2 Pensicola, 1 Colorado and 2 sims, We ended up winning and I got 3400 ish exp on a non 1.5 bonus. :getin:

They only lit me on fire three times, but it was all at once, which was nice.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:53

Mirrors: Oct 25, 2007

I like this ship and feel unjustifiably proud of myself.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 19:59

Lovely Joe Stalin: Jun 12, 2007; Our Lovely Wang

Foxtrot_13 posted:

Because Russia is Wargaiming's 2nd biggest income source and they are known to be pretty xenophobic when it comes to what they choose to play.

There are also masses of closest Nazi's so the German tree will go in before the British ones as people will spent lots of cash to buy into it.

So WG will be saving the best Navy to last

The part that really doesn't make sense is the IJN. They obviously don't give a poo poo for historical accuracy, and I'm sure they would draw more customers with either the Kriegsmarine or the RN.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 20:02

moolchaba: Jul 21, 2007

I just got the game and was blown up from long distance in my first match.

I like the slow change of pace.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 20:14

TheDemon: Dec 11, 2006; _{...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.}

Uh

Are the low tier BBs supposed to be fun? I had a great time with the Kawachi and South Carolina, and I just got out of a 90.8k AP, 13.7k HE, 9.4k fires, 8.6k secondaries game with my Myogi for 1876 base exp.

I mean, dodging torps is annoying but if you manage it well enough, Dreadnought awaits.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 20:15

R. Mute: Jul 27, 2011

Can't log in anymore. Is the EU server full or something?

# ? Jul 4, 2015 20:19

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# ? May 16, 2024 05:30

NTRabbit: Aug 15, 2012; i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches

Gapey Joe Stalin posted:

The part that really doesn't make sense is the IJN. They obviously don't give a poo poo for historical accuracy, and I'm sure they would draw more customers with either the Kriegsmarine or the RN.

Sure it does. What was every mouth breather typing into chat at the start of every battle all through beta?

# ? Jul 4, 2015 20:23

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