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I'm not sure if super development of provinces is broken, or it's just something that we're not used to yet but is intended to be the new normal. It's jarring to see a province with like 60 base tax when we're used to considering something with like 15 base tax as "insanely high", but is that inherently a bad thing to have bigger numbers as long as it's built with the intention of achieving them? My main gripe would be that if you look at provinces at the start of the game, a province with around 6 total development you can look at as some sparsely populated rural area and then you look at a province with like 20 development and you have to imagine it as this bustling center of production and trade with a high population, but then if you look at those same 2 provinces 300 years in and they are 56 development and 70 development, it kind of all starts bleeding together and feels like 'massive wealth and population everywhere'.
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Jul 4, 2015 20:25
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That kind of growth doesn't really happen outside of Europe, and that kind of growth and development was what actually happened in Europe over the course of the period. Much faster growth than the rest of the world.
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Jul 4, 2015 20:47
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Are there ever any positive events for Republics? I'm liking everything about my OPM Frankfurt run but the nigh constant -1 Stability or -10 Republican tradition events.
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Jul 4, 2015 20:55
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Is aggressive expansion still based on base tax/admin development? Because if so then my main concern with there being dozens of super-developed provinces is if it means that annexing a 50-development OPM immediately triggers a continent-wide coalition against you (or the AI) because taking any decently developed province gives enough AE to put every single neighbor over the threshold. I mean on the one hand, coalitions probably could use to be a little more aggressive since it's still somewhat easy to play around them, but on the other hand you're potentially slowing the pace of the game down to an unplayable crawl if taking any kind of meaningful territory means you have to chill out for 50 years afterwards.
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Jul 4, 2015 21:35
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Another Person posted:That kind of growth doesn't really happen outside of Europe, and that kind of growth and development was what actually happened in Europe over the course of the period. Much faster growth than the rest of the world. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jul 4, 2015 |
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Jul 4, 2015 21:38
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Dont forget it's not just representing population growth, it's economic growth. Maybe the population of the province only doubled, but it's economy was increased tenfold. It's not just the growth of population during this period that catapulted europe into global dominance, it was its growth in productivity. The population growth was just a by-product of increases in productivity really. It doesn't matter if that other country has double your population if they have to funnel most of their productivity into simply surviving and keeping their government/society stable. Investing MP into provinces might not even represent any sort of population growth, just increased efficiency. You've implemented agricultural reforms so now the province needs far less labour to feed its self, freeing up more people for the army. You've upgraded the infrastructure and production methods for your province's trade good, meaning the same amount of workers can produce more. That sort of thing. In a way I like that the game abstracts the economy into 3 stats and doesn't include a stat like population, leaves more up to the imagination and one less thing to analyse and criticize as not realistic or historical.
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Jul 4, 2015 21:48
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Trundel posted:Are there ever any positive events for Republics? I'm liking everything about my OPM Frankfurt run but the nigh constant -1 Stability or -10 Republican tradition events. There might be 1 or 2 out of the hundred or so and they're only for specific republic types that don't come until late. Pretty much every republic specific event is some sort of crisis where you have to choose between something bad or losing republican tradition, or events where you make a sacrifice and get a boost of RT or gain something small but lose RT. This used to bother me but republics would probably be overpowered if it were any other way though. They're already overpowered if you're a country with republican tradition boost. Trujillo fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jul 4, 2015 |
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Jul 4, 2015 21:55
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VDay posted:Is aggressive expansion still based on base tax/admin development? Because if so then my main concern with there being dozens of super-developed provinces is if it means that annexing a 50-development OPM immediately triggers a continent-wide coalition against you (or the AI) because taking any decently developed province gives enough AE to put every single neighbor over the threshold. I mean on the one hand, coalitions probably could use to be a little more aggressive since it's still somewhat easy to play around them, but on the other hand you're potentially slowing the pace of the game down to an unplayable crawl if taking any kind of meaningful territory means you have to chill out for 50 years afterwards. Thats why AE is capped at 30 development.
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Jul 4, 2015 21:57
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Baronjutter posted:Dont forget it's not just representing population growth, it's economic growth. Maybe the population of the province only doubled, but it's economy was increased tenfold. It's not just the growth of population during this period that catapulted europe into global dominance, it was its growth in productivity. The population growth was just a by-product of increases in productivity really. It doesn't matter if that other country has double your population if they have to funnel most of their productivity into simply surviving and keeping their government/society stable. Investing MP into provinces might not even represent any sort of population growth, just increased efficiency. You've implemented agricultural reforms so now the province needs far less labour to feed its self, freeing up more people for the army. You've upgraded the infrastructure and production methods for your province's trade good, meaning the same amount of workers can produce more. That sort of thing. In a way I like that the game abstracts the economy into 3 stats and doesn't include a stat like population, leaves more up to the imagination and one less thing to analyse and criticize as not realistic or historical.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:01
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Trundel posted:Are there ever any positive events for Republics? I'm liking everything about my OPM Frankfurt run but the nigh constant -1 Stability or -10 Republican tradition events. Literally the best event is a "bad" event. When you're between 40-50 tradition, you can get an event that makes you choose between losing 1 stab and getting a ton of republican tradition or turning into a monarchy. That's what makes staying just below 50 trad the best game plan. Note that you should never ever drop below 40 unless you want to stop being a republic.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:03
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Looks like the AI could still use some tweaking: I thought I was in trouble when a hundred thousand angry Christians came charging through Italy to cleanse the world of Turks, but after kicking me out of Italy (which was a side-objective at best anyway) they decided to stick most of their army on a single fort. Quite apart from the fact that they're all starving to death in the hills of Calabria instead of spreading out (presumably they want to stick together in case I attack them), I'm carving my way through Hungary entirely unopposed (minus a few Hungarians). As Hungary is the defender and war leader and I've grabbed the war goal, I might just be able to secure a peace treaty before they even get around to fighting me. They'll be much reduced by the time they make it to Hungary at any rate, though Savoy at least had the good sense to move their troops out of the doom stack. And yes, that is AI-controlled Republican Florence and they've gobbled up most of Italy with no assistance from me or anyone else to my knowledge. They fought Naples down to a single province, at which point Naples was desperate enough to become my vassal. Edit: After they finally brought down the fort in Calabria, they seem to have just gone home for the most part. Hungary and Florence left about ~50k troops there doing nothing, but France and the rest just wandered off. I figured they were coming for me, so I pulled back to more defensible positions, but it's been a while and I can't find them anywhere. Whatever they're up to, it doesn't involve killing me it seems. Apoffys fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Jul 4, 2015 |
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Jul 4, 2015 22:56
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A Buttery Pastry posted:That's true. GDP per capita grew roughly 50% - 150% in Europe during the same period, which would in game terms bump taxes and (especially) production up significantly. GDP per capita in India and China was essentially stagnant during the same period. They could stand to nearly double development in most of the non-European world really, and let Europe eclipse it over the course of the game. Development opens up so many possibilities; I said I was glad they put it behind a paywall a bit ago since it makes Common Sense seem much more worth the price (unlike Art of War), but it's kind of a shame it's gonna keep more radical stuff like that from being introduced.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:59
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Koramei posted:They could stand to nearly double development in most of the non-European world really, and let Europe eclipse it over the course of the game. Development opens up so many possibilities; I said I was glad they put it behind a paywall a bit ago since it makes Common Sense seem much more worth the price (unlike Art of War), but it's kind of a shame it's gonna keep more radical stuff like that from being introduced. I wonder how the world is going to turn out when I actually test it out though. Maybe Ming will be the Yellow Menace it was always destined to be, clashing with light of European civilization, France, in the Ukrainian steppes.
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Jul 4, 2015 23:25
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Somehow managed to ally France, Austria and Saxony (HRE who inherited Burgundy) in spite of them all being GPs that don't like each other. Saxony declares a coalition war on France about a year after my diplomatic coup and 2 months before I was going to use France and Austria together to beat up the rest of Italy for me 
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Jul 4, 2015 23:27
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I've just finished rebalancing the entire world in terms of development, with manpower being directly dependent on population, while tax and production are dependent on GDP per capita too. The need to increase development was pretty varied though, with some non-European regions probably having been overpowered relative to Europe. (There's a lot of variation in Europe though.) On the other hand, India and China became massively more developed. Like, Ming starts out at over 9000 development. It might surprise you then to find that I'm adding some triggered modifiers which adds diminishing returns to additional development, curbing the power of large states relative to small ones, especially for early governments. That's a general system for all countries though, from the size of Anhalt and up to a potential super-Ming, not just a Ming specific handicap. Oh wow, can you post a copy of that? I wanna see. What sources did you use to judge population and GDP?
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Jul 4, 2015 23:28
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Do the religious war shave a hard end date? It's 1656 and my HRE game is still stagnating. The Protestants won't declare it since the Ottomans threw in with the Catholic league, making the balance of great powers too even.
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Jul 4, 2015 23:29
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Contrecoup posted:Do the religious war shave a hard end date? It's 1656 and my HRE game is still stagnating. The Protestants won't declare it since the Ottomans threw in with the Catholic league, making the balance of great powers too even. If the Protestants haven't declared the war in 30 years there's a chance Catholicism becomes permanent, it will happen in 1625 at the latest. Mercenaries count towards your force limit, right?  Edit: Oh, you're in 1656... Either it has changed, or there's something preventing it like a war, or it's a bug i guess. Party In My Diapee fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 4, 2015 23:31
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Yes.
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Jul 4, 2015 23:49
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Apoffys posted:And yes, that is AI-controlled Republican Florence and they've gobbled up most of Italy with no assistance from me or anyone else to my knowledge. They fought Naples down to a single province, at which point Naples was desperate enough to become my vassal. Both 1.13 games I've done so far have had Florence take over all of Italy except for the area near the Alps. Not enough to base anything on but getting more interesting to hear others are getting that too.
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Jul 4, 2015 23:49
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I've just finished rebalancing the entire world in terms of development, with manpower being directly dependent on population, while tax and production are dependent on GDP per capita too. The need to increase development was pretty varied though, with some non-European regions probably having been overpowered relative to Europe. (There's a lot of variation in Europe though.) On the other hand, India and China became massively more developed. Like, Ming starts out at over 9000 development. It might surprise you then to find that I'm adding some triggered modifiers which adds diminishing returns to additional development, curbing the power of large states relative to small ones, especially for early governments. That's a general system for all countries though, from the size of Anhalt and up to a potential super-Ming, not just a Ming specific handicap. 9000 dev? That sounds ridiculous, like unbeatable ridiculous. Kinda terrifying, kinda intriguing. If I am thinking rightly, it means that Ming will probably just eat all of the steppes, absorb their low development, then turn to the mountains, and then to the south of Asia and just become king of the continent. It miiiight be worth dropping development by a solid percentage rate across the globe if that is the case, like by 50%. It sounds like wars will just involve millions of men at all times, even with curbed modifiers to lower the abilities of a nation. It sounds hilarious to run as a spectator though. The problem with perfectly reflecting historical stats in a game like this is that while you can replicate numbers, you can't really simulate attitudes that well, or at least, not like they are in real life. So, while with their amazing population Ming could have conquered all of Asia like they are liable to in your mod due to their sheer strength, they were highly isolationist and didn't actually grow much at all in reality. Unfortunately, the AI is unlikely to respect that fact when their numbers are cranked so highly up. It will just see "Lower manpower, Ming crush". And yeah, when I said growth I meant economic growth more than population, didn't really make myself clear there, sorry about that.
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Jul 5, 2015 00:06
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Back To 99 posted:If the Protestants haven't declared the war in 30 years there's a chance Catholicism becomes permanent, it will happen in 1625 at the latest. Well that definitely didn't happen. Time to restart. Yay bugs.
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Jul 5, 2015 00:16
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I never really figured out who the leader of the religious wars ends up being. I always thought it was based on prestige which it isn't as of this patch since I had way more than Sweden. I'm guessing based on total development?
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Jul 5, 2015 00:21
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I've never used mercenaries except as a desperation thing. I've always been turned off by how much more they cost than normal units to construct, and I've been under the impression they cost more to maintain. Aside from not draining your manpower and being constructed quickly, what are the advantage to using them? I noticed Sweden had a NI that dealt with mercenary maintenance cost and with my less than stellar understanding of mercs that seems like a waste of an NI.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:26
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TTBF posted:I've never used mercenaries except as a desperation thing. I've always been turned off by how much more they cost than normal units to construct, and I've been under the impression they cost more to maintain. Aside from not draining your manpower and being constructed quickly, what are the advantage to using them? I noticed Sweden had a NI that dealt with mercenary maintenance cost and with my less than stellar understanding of mercs that seems like a waste of an NI. Only use infantry mercs. Since they chew up the vast majority of the losses your manpower pool would incure they can save you tens of thousands of men. Think of it as turning gold into manpower.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:30
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TTBF posted:I've never used mercenaries except as a desperation thing. I've always been turned off by how much more they cost than normal units to construct, and I've been under the impression they cost more to maintain. Aside from not draining your manpower and being constructed quickly, what are the advantage to using them? I noticed Sweden had a NI that dealt with mercenary maintenance cost and with my less than stellar understanding of mercs that seems like a waste of an NI. You'll be able to keep in a war much longer and wear out an enemy who is using a non-mercenary army if you're using mercenary infantry, especially when you combine it with the reinforce speed advisor. As Florence I went administrative first and got in over my head and was fighting against ~50k with my ~20k but because all my infantry was mercenary I just kept wearing them out until they had no manpower left and wiped them. When you stack mercenary buffs they aren't that much more expensive than non mercs. I'd say never using mercs is a mistake. Even if you just run a stack of mercs for sieges.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:37
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Yeah they key is that you're wildly underestimating how important this:TTBF posted:Aside from not draining your manpower is. Especially with the scary attrition you take sieging stuff down after Common Sense, mercenaries are what stop you from turning into a sitting duck after every major war.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:37
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found an interesting thing in the text_l_english localisation file: there's a localisation for highland and lowland scottish, but neither are used or have culture files. wonder what changed paradox's decision to include that?
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Jul 5, 2015 02:10
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Likely a holdover from EU3, where Scotland was divided along exactly those lines.
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Jul 5, 2015 02:14
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It's getting to that point in my Russia game (coalition mapmode): Stupid India, just let me have all your provinces and stop resisting my peace-keeping troops 
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Jul 5, 2015 02:51
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Thanks for the advice for Kongo, I'm trying it again and it's going much better: There's still a lot to do but I think I'm on the right track. Hopefully I won't hit a wall in northern Africa and end up 20 provinces short from finishing 
Elman fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 02:52
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TTBF posted:I've never used mercenaries except as a desperation thing. I've always been turned off by how much more they cost than normal units to construct, and I've been under the impression they cost more to maintain. Aside from not draining your manpower and being constructed quickly, what are the advantage to using them? I noticed Sweden had a NI that dealt with mercenary maintenance cost and with my less than stellar understanding of mercs that seems like a waste of an NI. Merc maintenance is an alright bonus. The main benefit of mercs is they don't consume manpower which is a very valuable resource this patch, and like others have said only buy infantry mercs. Most of your casualties are going to be infantry anyway, and they're the cheapest, so the best way to substitute gold for manpower. Also consider that you can hire mercs in occupied enemy provinces, meaning you can hire them quickly and on the front lines. Mercs cost 150% of normal to recruit and 250% in maintenance, so it can often be desirable to consolidate merc units and just hire fresh ones in occupied territory where they can quickly reinforce. Keeping them around as a standing force or paying to reinforce damaged merc units can get really expensive. At the outset of a war I would recommend tossing a few merc infantry into your stacks, and as you fight battles consolidate the mercs (and maybe your regular units too) and replace with fresh mercs hired at the front. I'll usually toss in 2-4 or so per 20 (or smaller) army stack. They save you a TON of manpower.
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Jul 5, 2015 03:37
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Pellisworth posted:Also consider that you can hire mercs in occupied enemy provinces, meaning you can hire them quickly and on the front lines. Mercs cost 150% of normal to recruit and 250% in maintenance, so it can often be desirable to consolidate merc units and just hire fresh ones in occupied territory where they can quickly reinforce. Keeping them around as a standing force or paying to reinforce damaged merc units can get really expensive. If you're going to do this - make sure to send your mercenaries in before your regulars, unless they'll get wiped before the other units turn up, maximizing their losses while minimizing the hit to your manpower. You can essentially do this with allied armies if you're okay with tediously checking and unchecking the "attach" box for your stacks.
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Jul 5, 2015 03:49
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If you can afford it, having all-merc infantry is amaaazing - in particular, it gives you a tremendous ability to grind down larger doomstacks by losing battles but never actually running out of manpower.
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Jul 5, 2015 03:55
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 Is this a bug? 
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Jul 5, 2015 04:08
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bad Habsburgs. naughty. no IA for you.
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Jul 5, 2015 04:13
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Even a relatively small merc stack is great for softening up big enemy armies if you've got the cash to burn. 40 stack sitting on your border? Toss a bunch of mercs at it and then time your main army's arrival to show up a day or two after the mercs lose and now you're fighting a weakened army with half its morale.
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Jul 5, 2015 04:13
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Roadie posted:If you can afford it, having all-merc infantry is amaaazing - in particular, it gives you a tremendous ability to grind down larger doomstacks by losing battles but never actually running out of manpower. When a major war starts I always do a "build all" and it gives me maybe a stack of 20. I guess ok as an auxiliary carper sieger but when everyone's throwing around 5-6 stacks of 30-40+ it doesn't really have a big impact.
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Jul 5, 2015 04:14
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In my Jaunpur hell game, I ran an army which had all merc infantry. I never worried about manpower. Only time I ever had non-merc inf was when I integrated a vassal. The only downside was when infantry tech would advance. I wish Paradox would just add a "Upgrade mercs" button like with ships. Make it cost the same, just save me the time of rebuilding them.
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Jul 5, 2015 04:17
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Pellisworth posted:bad Habsburgs. naughty. no IA for you.  In other news, I got the "Electable!" Cheevo when I inherited Bohemia. Seems like that might be a bit of a cheesy way to get that achievement, although now I can vote for myself as emperor.
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Jul 5, 2015 04:22
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Are you supposed to get IA on converting a prince back to the official religion? I weaselled my way into emperorship as the Commonwealth but Protestants are bloody everywhere so I've had no natural IA gain for at least 50 years now. I've diplo converted and force converted and the only way I've gotten any IA is by getting re-elected or adding my land to the empire. The wiki says it's +1 IA for converting heretic princes but that might be outdated. Also is there any way to mitigate the 'enforced religious unity' opinion modifier? I didn't realise it existed at first and now it's been sitting at over -100 for ages, decaying at 1.6 a year, and it doesn't go away when someone converts. It seems like the optimal conversion strategy is to deliberately fail to enforce religion and do it militarily, because those penalties go away way sooner. It makes it possible to convert large nations, at least. I wanted to knock out the Winged Hussars and HRE achievements but it's been such a slog trying to get positive IA gain and hussars are still 4 techs away. I just want to switch to 1.13
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