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I really don't care that much about the continuity of it all, to be honest. If you come up with a good script where Five, River, and Jamie fight Cybus-era Cybermen, just go for it and let nerds thirty years from now sort it out.
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Jul 4, 2015 23:40
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Rochallor posted:I really don't care that much about the continuity of it all, to be honest. If you come up with a good script where Five, River, and Jamie fight Cybus-era Cybermen, just go for it and let nerds thirty years from now sort it out.  I don't care how it happens but I want Jamie to have eventually been a companion to ALL the Doctors. Including the War Doctor.
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Jul 4, 2015 23:42
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Dr. Gene Dango MD posted:I think it may have been implied that the doctor has run across the silence dozens if not hundreds of times, considering how important both of them are for the development of the human race. Then he forgot. I don't think the Doctor necessarily forgot they exist. He might very well have encountered them before, kept extensive notes about them, and remembered his notes perfectly, because Moffat time-skips him straight from "has no hint that the Silence are involved at all" to "exposits to the rest of the team about the Silence". He just wouldn't have encountered their long-term control-the-human-race plot.
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Jul 4, 2015 23:47
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I'm watching Shakedown and holy hell it is bad. I checked out the novelization not knowing it was based on something, and boy do I hope it works well on paper.
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Jul 5, 2015 00:12
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Jerusalem posted:I don't care how it happens but I want Jamie to have eventually been a companion to ALL the Doctors. Including the War Doctor. 
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Jul 5, 2015 00:13
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That may very well be, but in my opinion that was probably more Moffats story chops beginning to fray. Nowadays things usually happen in the show because the writer likes the set piece, not because the characters and their interactions with the environment and each other have naturally led to that situation. The Doctor being suddenly knowledgeable of the silence was (again in my opinion) probably due more to Moffat wanting to get the characters to a particular point (being knowledgeable about the silence) without doing the proper legwork because he used up all his talent on season 5. I feel that if the Doctor had notes on them a small scene where he discovers them would have been in the episode. I remember when Moffat was king of the world. Now I'd be happy if Gatiss took over. drat meta plots. CobiWann posted:jamie Dr. Gene Dango MD fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 00:24
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 Let's get a pic of Capaldi and William Russell somewhere. That'd be great.
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Jul 5, 2015 00:26
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Peter Capaldi showing up at the door of every former companion with a "script" that just turns out to be fanfiction he wrote growing up 
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Jul 5, 2015 07:03
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 Trouble is brewing once again; Top Secret plans are being stolen with their guards killed. All evidence seems to point to the culprit being a sentient robot created by a Think Tank; however, his basic programming prevents him from killing, providing a contradiction to the clues. At the same time, the Doctor is recovering from his latest regeneration; can he regain his senses and help UNIT solve the case before time runs out? Tom Baker is the Doctor in Robot. X X X X X Cast The Doctor - Tom Baker Doctor Who - Jon Pertwee (recap cameo) Sarah Jane Smith - Elisabeth Sladen Harry Sullivan - Ian Marter Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart - Nicholas Courtney Warrant Officer Benton - John Levene Hilda Winters - Patricia Maynard Robot - Michael Kilgarriff Professor Kettlewell - Edward Burnham Arnold Jellicoe - Alec Linstead Short - Timothy Craven Producer: Barry Letts Writer: Terrance Dicks Director: Christopher Bailey Original Broadcast: 28 December 1974 – 18 January 1975 Trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA7GXXj9o9k X X X X X Regeneration is a tricky business. You never know what you're going to get. When Jon Pertwee announced he was leaving the show in 1974, he was stepping away at the height of his popularity, but worried over a change in the production staff, a concern about being typecast and unable to gain future employment, and a sadness over the death of his close colleague Roger Delgado. Producers looked high and low for the actor who would portray the fourth incarnation of the Doctor, before finally settling on someone who was the complete opposite of the smooth, suave, collected Time Lord portrayed by Pertwee. When the first episode of his debut serial premiered in December of 1974, the BBC held their breath. Would the new Doctor appeal to fans of the show and keep them interested after the incumbent's departure? There was no need to worry, as it turned out, as for over 35 years whenever asked to conjure an image of “Doctor Who,” the man who came to mind was a grinning madman with a broad hat and a long scarf. Robot is the introduction episode for Tom Baker as the Fourth Doctor. While in many ways a Third Doctor episode, Baker immediately puts his imprint on the role. A long-running companion stays, a new companion is introduced, old friends are seen one final time, and there's a shadowy group hoping to take over the world with the unwitting assistance of a high-tech robot. If one can get past the dodgy special effects, Robot is a solid serial that hits all the right notes. There's a strange man lying in the infirmary, someone who the Brigadier and Sarah Jane know very well, wearing a new face and a new body. And right now, they could use his help. Vital secrets are being stolen from government and military installations. UNIT and the Ministry of Defence are powerless to stop it. Who could be behind these thefts? Could it be members of the Scientific Reform Society who are trying to being about a society where they rule as the elites? Could it be Professor Kettlewell, who insists he's only working on the means to harness solar energy? Or could it be something else, a technological marvel who is acting in what it believes are the best interests of humanity perhaps? Robot's production accompanied several high-profile departures. Long-time producer Barry Letts and Script Editor Terrance Dicks were leaving, with Philip Hinchcliffe as producer and Robert Holmes stepping in to takes Dicks' place. Dicks' last turn as script editor borrowed heavily from King Kong with the title K1 Robot becoming infatuated with Sarah Jane as a mother figure as the military tries to stop its rampage. The script itself could have come from the Third Doctor era as UNIT is heavily involved with a good bit of cloak-and-dagger as well, with some of the fourth episode's tension revolving around a potential nuclear war if UNIT fails to assault a military bunker. Tom Baker bursts onto the scene, telling the Brigadier “there's nothing to worry about. The brontosaurus is large and placid.” The cool and collected man of action has been replaced by a anarchist of a scientist, who spouts about “the pressure of resistance of vegetable fibre” when studying a crush dandelion and uses his hat to blind the Robot's sensors, grinning at the results for a moment. At the time, Tom Baker had been an unemployed actor working on construction when Barry Letts, remembering him from the movie The Golden Voyage of Sinbad as the villain Prince Koura. That role helped Baker get the part. Baker plays up on the comedic aspects of the Doctor, but he also touches upon his alien nature, often working on a completely different mental and social plane that those around him. The scene where he entertains and then threatens the meeting of the SRS, as well as the numerous time he does lab work, drives home just how much of a mad genius the Fourth Doctor is, and viewers from the very beginning had to wonder just how much of Tom Baker himself was in the role... Before Rose Tyler and Amy Pond, there was Sarah Jane Smith. While there were moments throughout her time on the show where she was the “shrieking companion,” Elizabeth Sladen's performance here shows her as two things – the journalist looking for the story, and someone who misses the Third Doctor. She really never clicks with the Fourth Doctor until the end of the story, instead trying to find out the truth behind Professor Kettlewell, the K1 Robot, and the SRS on her own, often leading her into trouble. It's a way to move the story forward while the Doctor is recovering from his regeneration, and shows that Sarah Jane is definitely a force to be reckoned with, someone who's independent even when forced into the role of captive or scared woman. This is definitely true in the fourth episode, where Sarah Jane finds herself as the captive of the Robot, the one person who ever showed it true kindness. Sladen shows sympathy to the Robot even in its death, never blaming it for the actions of those who controlled it and begging UNIT and the Doctor to find another way and avoid hurting it. At the end of Jon Pertwee's time on the show, a character was created to help ease the physical burden on him brought about by severe back pain. That character is Harry Sullivan, surgeon for the Royal Navy who's been assigned to take care of the Doctor, played by Ian Marter. With Baker able to take on the physical challenges of the show, Sullivan's time on the show was relegated to one season, but his easy going charm and rapport with Sarah Jane and the Doctor made his run memorable. Sullivan was never truly the dashing hero, being trapped in a supply cabinet by the Doctor at one point and captured by the SRS at another. Still, Marter's old-school charm and willingness to pitch in wherever he can comes through in Sullivan's actions, earning him a spot in the TARDIS. With such an overpowering on-screen figure as the Doctor, one of the challenges for the writers was to come up with interesting supporting characters for him to play off of. Robot marks the last regular series appearance for two long-time Who veterans, Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart and Warrant Officer Benton. Long after his official departure from the show, the shadow Nicholas Courtney's Brigadier could be felt in both the show AND in any other portrayal of the military commanding officer. For his last time out, viewers get the Brigadier's calm and professional nature in full effect, never once allowing the bad guys to see him sweat. He's a military man who does indeed shoot first, but also knows when the time comes to try something different, like one of the Doctor's mad schemes. We never get the sense that the Brigadier misses the Third Doctor; he takes the new one in stride as long as he's helping to keep Britain and the planet safe. Courtney was superb at “the stiff upper lip,” the perfect straight man to the Doctor, and was popular enough to appear a few more times in the series. Warrant Officer Benton, played by John Levane, is the enlisted counterpart to the Brigadier – loyal to his army, but also his friends and willing to break the rules when needed. His promotion to Warrant Officer feels like a nice send-off to the character, and the pure joy on his face when the Doctor tells him his plan to help take down the robot is “brilliant” is such a great moment. The characters created specifically for Robot are memorable enough. We get a female villain this time out, the sneering, domineering, Anne-Robinson-Forty-Years-Too-Early Hilda Winters as played by Patrica Maynard. Tight hair, pants suit, glasses...as both the scientific head of the Think Tank and the ruthless leader of the Scientific Reform Society, Winters channels every single fascist and jackboot cliché one can think of. On the opposite side is the creator of the K1 Robot, Professor Kettlewell, who is scatterbrained and looks like he just stuck his finger in a light socket. Edward Burnham plays him as stuttering, optimistic, and a bit clueless, worrying about the K1 Robot as his creation as Winters uses it to “do what's best for humanity” in violation of the directives Kettleworth designed him for. Burnham does a fine job, though his defection to the SRS in the third episode seems to come out of left field a bit. As with most 1970's science fiction, one must overlook the dodgy special effects. Let's just get this out of the way now... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv8ENxkDz9U Yes, that's an Action Man tank being pushed and turned by an off-screen hand. And some of the primitive green screen with Sarah Jane (now in rag doll form for some shots!) being picked up by the Robot is laughable today. But the crux of the story, the actual Robot suit, is very well done for its time. The costume towers over the other actors, and the detail the creators put into the mask compensates for its reed-like wrists. Good actors can overcome sketchy special effects, and proof of this (aside from everyone else in Robot, cast and crew alike) shines through with Michael Kilgarriff's performance as the K1 Robot. For the times when the suit looks like something out of a 7th grader's garage, Kilgarriff manages to portray the Robot's pathos and determination to do what's best for humanity, no matter at what COST to humanity. There's a little bit of arm flailing in the “Danger Will Robinson” mold, but Kilgarriff takes what room the suit gives him and puts on an emotional performance, especially in the fourth episode as he finds himself protecting Sarah Jane at all costs. His movements are a bit jerky, but for the most part viewers in the 1970's can believe this Robot is getting around on its own and has the potential to be a major danger to humanity. In the vein of generating discussion and to fill the occasional need to have a very good argument, I asked a very good friend of mine and classic Who viewer, Cygnia, to provide her opinions on the episodes as I review them. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree, sometimes one of us tries to stop the other from flying to England and shanking Moffat... quote:Growing up, I was raised on "Doctor Who". Robot is a solid B+ of an episode. The Tom Baker era doesn't truly begin until the next serial, The Ark in Space, as the show moves way from the action orientated Third Doctor era to one where Philip Hinchcliffe had kids diving behind the couch every week out of sheer fright. Tom Baker begins his seven year march to Logopolis by firmly telling the world that he has arrived. By overlooking the special effects and focusing on the secondary characters, viewers will find this story a fine introduction to the wide and wonderful world of the Fourth Doctor. Random Thoughts - The first-person “robot” view through what looks like patterned glass - Harry Sullivan channeling John Steed as he goes undercover - Robot's “karate chop” to knock out the Doctor during the second episode cliffhanger. quote:BRIGADIER: Well, naturally enough, the only country that could be trusted with such a role was Great Britain. Cobi's Synopsis - If you're looking to get into the classic series, Robot is a great place to start. The dodgy special effects are more than made up for by the presence of the K1 Robot, but this story is all about the introduction of Tom Baker as the Fourth Doctor. Next up - Thousands of humans are in cryogenic sleep, and while they've slept their Ark has been invaded. A parasitic insect race - the Wirrn - have taken control and threaten the very future of mankind... Tom Baker is the Doctor in...The Ark in Space.
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Jul 5, 2015 07:47
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Robot is way better than it has any right to be, especially considering how incredibly naff the special effects are. Even though Ark in Space feels far more like the start of the 4th Doctor's story (and kicks off a wonderful arc for the first season), there's this wonderful charm about this story - it just works to have the story be in every way a standard/classic Pertwee-era story, only to have the 4th Doctor just barrel through the middle of it with a manic grin. The moment that always stands out to me is when UNIT takes the Doctor to the site of one of the robberies/attacks - Baker as the Doctor seems bored with the proceedings, relaxing in the back of a jeep seemingly paying no attention to anything.... until something catches his interest and suddenly he perks up out of his rest and becomes engaged and immediately just completely takes over the story. Jon Pertwee was "my Doctor" (thanks to the delayed airing of the episodes where I lived, I'm not quite THAT old!), so I still remember how upsetting it was to see Pertwee leave and be replaced by Baker. But I also still remember just how quickly and incredibly Baker took complete ownership of the role, it really was remarkable. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 08:40
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In the UK, Watch is doing a classic Who run all day. We've had Tomb of the Cybermen and Spearhead from Space, and we're in the middle of Pyramids from Mars. After that is Earthshock, Vengeance on Varos and then the TV Movie (I guess that counts as getting 2 Doctors without having to show a McCoy story) The Nestene anus in the tank from Spearhead is both hilarious and 
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Jul 5, 2015 12:00
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The_Doctor posted:The Nestene anus in the tank from Spearhead is both hilarious and In HD!
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Jul 5, 2015 12:12
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Dr. Gene Dango MD posted:That may very well be, but in my opinion that was probably more Moffats story chops beginning to fray. Nowadays things usually happen in the show because the writer likes the set piece, not because the characters and their interactions with the environment and each other have naturally led to that situation. The Doctor being suddenly knowledgeable of the silence was (again in my opinion) probably due more to Moffat wanting to get the characters to a particular point (being knowledgeable about the silence) without doing the proper legwork because he used up all his talent on season 5. I feel that if the Doctor had notes on them a small scene where he discovers them would have been in the episode. There is a scene where the Doctor is given notes on the Silence, their powers and influence. It's in the Wedding of River Song. That's also the episode which sets up "...you should kill us all on sight!" where keeping the Silence alive destroys Area 52. ~backwards season~
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Jul 5, 2015 12:52
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The_Doctor posted:In the UK, Watch is doing a classic Who run all day. We've had Tomb of the Cybermen and Spearhead from Space, and we're in the middle of Pyramids from Mars. After that is Earthshock, Vengeance on Varos and then the TV Movie (I guess that counts as getting 2 Doctors without having to show a McCoy story) And kind of comes out of nowhere! "Ok, a bit of cloak and dagger, some mannequins, and WHAT THE HELL?!?"
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Jul 5, 2015 15:44
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josh04 posted:There is a scene where the Doctor is given notes on the Silence, their powers and influence. It's in the Wedding of River Song. That's also the episode which sets up "...you should kill us all on sight!" where keeping the Silence alive destroys Area 52.
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Jul 5, 2015 20:11
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It's definitely not a backwards season. From the perspective of the Doctor, at 900+ years old he gets a summons to 2010s America where he figures out that Amy, Rory and River are hiding something from him, but agrees to go back to 1960s America at Amy's behest. There he meets and defeats the Silence by using the Moon Landing trick. During the course of the season he discovers from Amy's slip-up that at some point a couple hundred years in his future, he summons them to 2010s America where he is killed by an Impossible Astronaut. Over the next 200 years he attempts to avoid his fate before finally accepting it.... then moments later figuring out a simple and easy solution. He summons Amy, Rory and River to 2010s America while piloting a Doctor-shaped time machine in order to get "killed", but River fucks everything up by trying to help and the events of The Wedding of River Song happen. Eventually he regains control of the situation and is "killed" in 2010s America, then goes on his merry way to fresh adventures.
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Jul 5, 2015 22:11
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This, for the record, is the moment that Tom Baker won me over. It's the way the sad clown part is oversold, like he's holding in a grin and he was looking forward to that even more than the smiling clown suit revelation. It's probably just Baker smiling a little at the joke, but it sets the stage for the winking way that his Doctor trolls the Universe.
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Jul 6, 2015 15:06
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Speaking of the Missy reveal in the Toxx thread, something I found kind of interesting was that that Doctor Who iOS game with the gem matching released a level with her just after the episode aired, except the names of the moves she had made it sound like she was a robot. I'm pretty sure their team was told that she was a cybercontroller or something like that while they were making the level.
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Jul 6, 2015 16:13
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Trin Tragula posted:Pretty much this. They both have the perfect mixture of fond mockery, genuine fondness, and interesting/informative stuff about what it was like to work on the show. (Timelash with Colin/Nicola/Paul Darrow is a great reason to watch that again.) Sylvester/Sophie is also about as great as you'd expect. The Curse of Fenric one with them plus Nicholas Parsons being slightly loopy is wonderful. And some things that didn't https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1xnU2BNryo
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Jul 6, 2015 16:55
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Organza Quiz posted:Speaking of the Missy reveal in the Toxx thread, something I found kind of interesting was that that Doctor Who iOS game with the gem matching released a level with her just after the episode aired, except the names of the moves she had made it sound like she was a robot. I'm pretty sure their team was told that she was a cybercontroller or something like that while they were making the level. Don't forget her mid-episode "I am an android" prank.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:08
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We need a multi-Master story now that we have several living ones. Hell, break the budget and get Eric Roberts back. That'd be.... something...
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Jul 6, 2015 17:56
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egon_beeblebrox posted:We need a multi-Master story now that we have several living ones. Hell, break the budget and get Eric Roberts back. That'd be.... something... Michelle Gomez and Alex MacQueen vs. Peter Capaldi and Paul McGann, with Clara Oswald vs. Lucy Miller on the undercard. THERE'S your 2015 Christmas special, Moffat!
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Jul 6, 2015 18:41
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All Masters involved must simultaneously betray each other.
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Jul 6, 2015 18:52
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Diabolik900 posted:All Masters involved must simultaneously betray each other. Missy kills the Simms Master and he regenerates into her.
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Jul 6, 2015 18:54
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Ten minutes of Derek Jacobi simply scowling and yelling at the inadequacy of everyone, shortly before Missy rolls her eyes and erases his memory, sealing it in a fob watch.
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Jul 6, 2015 19:21
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I would so love a Master mash-up  "Yoo-hoo!" "Oh god...not another one!" "<Incoherant derisive snorting>" "Hello, you! ... Me...us?" "<Incoherant derisive hissing>"--- Honestly, I'm surprised it's not one of those things that's already happened, either in the New Series or Big Finish. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 20:56
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I've always said, if there was ever a multi-Master story, the younger one would have to somehow come out on top, much to everybody's confusion.
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Jul 6, 2015 22:26
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Jerusalem posted:I've always said, if there was ever a multi-Master story, the younger one would have to somehow come out on top, much to everybody's confusion. It'd just be a way to get him ANOTHER set of regenerations.
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Jul 6, 2015 22:35
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Talking about the Master has reminded me again of one of my favorite lines she had before the big reveal. When she's pretending to be a robot and basically just trolling the gently caress out of the Doctor, there's a point where he asks who is in charge and in this amazing mixture of confusion/outrage she declares,"I"MMMMMM in charge!" She then throws out "the Doctor" which gets him into even more of a tizzy before suddenly throwing her head back and bellowing,"DR CHAAAANG!" - it's just hilarious how Gomez portrays her, and doubly so with the benefit of hindsight when you realize it's the Master just having the time of her life loving with the Doctor.
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Jul 6, 2015 22:43
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https://twitter.com/ImJamieAnderson/status/618065110897197057/photo/1
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Jul 6, 2015 22:56
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Whatever this is won't load for me, what is it?
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Jul 6, 2015 23:13
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Jerusalem posted:Whatever this is won't load for me, what is it? Davison and Fielding got into a fight during recording today. A WATER FIGHT! (Looks like Janet won!)
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Jul 6, 2015 23:21
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Davros1 posted:Looks like Janet won! Sounds about right 
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Jul 6, 2015 23:33
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This is all Mark Strickson's fault.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:37
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Bicyclops posted:Ten minutes of Derek Jacobi simply scowling and yelling at the inadequacy of everyone, shortly before Missy rolls her eyes and erases his memory, sealing it in a fob watch. I'm actually listening to Jacobi play the Doctor's antecedent right now. Amazon/Audible got him to do the audio versions of most of the Conan Doyle Sherlock Holmes stories, and he's wonderful. His Watson is dignified but amazed-sounding, Holmes drips with sarcasm whenever the police are around. You'd swear there was a full cast involved, bar when any women are around.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:44
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Can we talk about how Janet Fielding's twitter name is @jfmouthonlegs?
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Jul 7, 2015 01:23
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Trin Tragula posted:Can we talk about how Janet Fielding's twitter name is @jfmouthonlegs? It's a comment the character used about herself back when she was on the show, from memory, and was a pretty accurate description of her time on the show - just walking around giving the Doctor and everybody else poo poo for the stupid stuff they got up to.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:37
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Diabolik900 posted:All Masters involved must simultaneously betray each other. I like the idea of it being a Doctor-lite story, simply because he knows the best solution is just to take a step back and wait until the knives are in everyone's collective backs before dealing with the last one. Jerusalem posted:I've always said, if there was ever a multi-Master story, the younger one would have to somehow come out on top, much to everybody's confusion. Simple; he knew he'd have to take himself on one day and erased his own memory after setting his diabolical self-sabotaging scheme in motion! The youngest one still knows what'll happen, but the oldest won't! 
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Jul 7, 2015 09:09
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Is it wrong that I want the Master to invite herself aboard the TARDIS as a companion next season? Not as part of any kind of elaborate scheme, just hanging out and declaring that she is in fact the Doctor's best bud and trying to "help" and complicating everything because they can't work out how to get rid of her.
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Jul 7, 2015 12:01
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docbeard posted:Is it wrong that I want the Master to invite herself aboard the TARDIS as a companion next season? Not as part of any kind of elaborate scheme, just hanging out and declaring that she is in fact the Doctor's best bud and trying to "help" and complicating everything because they can't work out how to get rid of her. Missy proposing horrible, overly elaborate schemes to solve every problem they encounter would be great.
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Jul 7, 2015 12:14
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