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gnarlyhotep posted:Just so I can understand, what are the 2 sides in gamer gate arguing for/about? One is tard and the other retard? The GG side says two, maybe three things: There is a big problem with ethics in journalism because some journalists are friends with people who make games, and maybe sometimes on occasion give them good press. They focus pretty exclusively on the indie press and games. This 'started' with a big creepy post about Zoe Quinn who is alleged to have done a lot of nasty poo poo in a relationship to a guy, and incidentally also maybe gotten something out of it in terms of reviews but actually probably not, but anyway she slept with other dudes. People who criticize games for anything other than 'objective' game play are bad and should stop doing that because it's bad. For example, noticing that games have almost no minority main characters is bad and if you don't like that don't buy the game and game studios are actually afraid of being called racist if they make a black character in a game and that's why they're all white, really. Also Anita Sarkeesian is very bad. Anti-GG says GG should shut the gently caress up. some people who are 'anti-GG' also say that the traditional core group of 'gamers' are whiny, entitled, sheltered white kids who can't deal with the fact that their hobby has become mainstream, and that they don't need to be the audience anymore. Others say that games have a lot of the worst parts of sexism,racism, and other bad stuff in our society and point it out a lot, sometimes in really tenuous ways.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:08
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Just as I thought. The correct move is not to play. *keeps playing and enjoying video games as he has for the past 30 years* But seriously, I think the problem is talking about it. Just everyone shut the gently caress up and play the games you like, it'll be like you're actually having fun! gnarlyhotep fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 05:16
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gnarlyhotep posted:Just as I thought. The correct move is not to play. *games continue to be aggressively misogynist*
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Jul 5, 2015 05:21
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SedanChair posted:*games continue to be aggressively misogynist* coming from you this is like a reason to be happy
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Jul 5, 2015 05:22
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gnarlyhotep posted:Just as I thought. The correct move is not to play. Fun is a buzzword though 
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Jul 5, 2015 05:23
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gnarlyhotep posted:coming from you this is like a reason to be happy Sure, embrace misogyny because somebody who talks about it annoys you. History will definitely let you off the hook. "That guy was really annoying," you'll say. "I had no choice but to literally become a more virulent misogynist in response."
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Jul 5, 2015 05:26
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gnarlyhotep posted:Just as I thought. The correct move is not to play. Some people have fun talking about things. Other people think that rampant sexism and racism in media is a problem. Those people aren't going to listen to you. I'm going to enjoy talking about things and i'm going to play and enjoy computer games as I have for thirty years, and I'm going to think that sexism and racism in media is a problem. I'm kind of having three times the fun you are. Okay the last one isn't really fun so two times.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:29
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Obdicut posted:Yeah, sometimes you'll get something like 4'33 and people will really like it, precisely because it is different from everything else. I'm sorry, but this stuff is subjective, not objective, and it's really okay. It's just a game of the year award, it really doesn't mean anything. There's like a billion different places giving out game of the year awards. 4'33 is objectively not music.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:30
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Junkfist posted:4'33 is objectively not music. Again, this is your subjective opinion. And that's fine, you can have it. Put it another way: what percentage is there in claiming it is or isn't, or that something is a game or isn't? Where does it get you? Like are you worried people are going to start calling grilled cheese sandwiches 'games' and a really nice gruyere, manchego, and cheddar mix will win 'game of the year 2016'? Because I make really great grilled cheese sandwiches and I'd like to win game of the year but I don't think I will.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:33
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SedanChair posted:*games continue to be aggressively misogynist* Games are aggressively hating women?
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Jul 5, 2015 05:34
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Junkfist posted:4'33 is objectively not music. It is though.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:35
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afeelgoodpoop posted:Games are aggressively hating women? Nice chainmail bikini you have there.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:35
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Obdicut posted:Again, this is your subjective opinion. And that's fine, you can have it. I am not sure what percentage of people correctly state the objective truth that 4'33" is not music or that games cannot have absolutely no gameplay.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:40
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Junkfist posted:I am not sure what percentage of people correctly state the objective truth that 4'33" is not music or that games cannot have absolutely no gameplay. 4'33" is a piece consisting of the ambient sound in the performance space. It's music.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:43
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Junkfist posted:I am not sure what percentage of people correctly state the objective truth that 4'33" is not music or that games cannot have absolutely no gameplay. Okay, well a lot of musicians and symphonies and stuff think 4'33" is music. It depends what you define music as. Likewise, whether a game nees active gameplay or just input is also debateable. Not for you, that's fine, but you don't seem to understand that these are taxonomic categories and so are automatically subjective. But I'm going to bed now, and in the morning, these things will still be subjective.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:44
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SedanChair posted:Sure, embrace misogyny because somebody who talks about it annoys you. History will definitely let you off the hook. "That guy was really annoying," you'll say. "I had no choice but to literally become a more virulent misogynist in response." I just take pleasure in knowing you'll be probated or banned soon.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:44
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Obdicut posted:Okay, well a lot of musicians and symphonies and stuff think 4'33" is music. Ambient sound in a space is not a performance of music. A game cannot exist completely devoid of gameplay. To seriously affirm either is very silly, a good joke, or part of some sort of zen koan.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:56
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Jul 5, 2015 06:06
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SedanChair posted:*games continue to be aggressively misogynist* Games are actually getting better about this regardless of whether or not we discuss internet losers getting mad about youtube videos.
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Jul 5, 2015 06:15
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Obdicut posted:The GG side says two, maybe three things: Every point you've posted is incorrect and projecting some bullshit you believe and wish others did too. For example, the ethics angle is fine with people mingling in the games industry. But gg just wants disclosure. That's it. Sorry that's so appalling to you. Also you e mentioned Anita like every other post in this thread. It's creepy. Please stop harassing her. She'll never be your waifu.
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Jul 5, 2015 06:16
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Motto posted:Games are actually getting better about this regardless of whether or not we discuss internet losers getting mad about youtube videos. Can we really be sure these two things are separate?
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Jul 5, 2015 06:19
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Some games are aggressively misogynistic. Most are not. What's the problem?
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Jul 5, 2015 06:24
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Powercrazy posted:Some games are aggressively misogynistic. Most are not. What's the problem? Puritanical values on sex are being marketed as feminism and idiots are buying into it.
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Jul 5, 2015 06:41
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Junkfist posted:Ambient sound in a space is not a performance of music. 4'33" has been debated endlessly by a ton of people. I'd argue it is performance art and not music. Its supposed to make people think about the space around them, the meaning and relation of silence and the 'music' of life. Of course, it only works in a performance setting. The unification of the audience and looking at the composer and the musician not doing anything. Not to mention people typically don't go and listen to 4'33", it is in the middle of compositions or other musical events to make the contrast striking. I mean, it is basically the answer to 'everything is art' to 'everything is music'. But this isn't a thread about 4'33" Unlike art or music, what makes a game to me is rather simple by comparison. Gaming is an active medium, others are passive. You read the book, turn the page. If you have something that is just text you read in which to absorb the story by clicking a mouse to go forward or back like a traditional novel, it is not a game. It is a book on screen. However, if it was like 'Her Story' in which you had to chose which videos to watch and to piece them together yourself, you are becoming an active participant. The story is not simply playing out before you while you watch or just turning the next page. This is a game. It is active vs. passive what determines what is or is not a game. Even walking simulators are games because you have to choose which way to go, which helps determine the direction of the story. Let me stretch this definition to its most fundamental level. This game has only one button. It makes you go forward and this is the only direction you can go. However, how fast or how slow you got determines what you see and what you hear. If you tap the button rhythmically, you will see and experience difference things than if you just held it down. We can reduce this even further. You have one button that goes forward, but you have to hold it down. Barely anything changes and it doesn't matter how you press the button or how long you press it. You see the same things no matter what. However, if you stop pressing it, the game stops and resets your progress, which is just going forward. Is this a game? It is, it is called 'Desert Bus' We shouldn't be thinking in gameplay terms for 'what is a game'? We should be thinking active vs. passive.
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Jul 5, 2015 07:13
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Is anyone actually incredulous at Batman being a deeply conservative narrative Infinitely powerful super-vigilante dishing out eternal justice and brutality and literal torture to meet ends that the pussy american justice system just can't or won't. Oh by the way all of the criminals are just criminals forever and are incapable of reform no matter how many times they're put away, including some that APPEARED to be reformed then turned at the first opportune moment. A world of neverending crime to be solved the only way it can, one strong man with a hard-on for justice and a big ol
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Jul 5, 2015 07:18
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Hashy posted:Is anyone actually incredulous at Batman being a deeply conservative narrative And then his villains do dastardly things like become Ambassador from Iran so the justice system can't touch them like in a sovereign citizen's fever dream.
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Jul 5, 2015 07:20
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natetimm posted:Puritanical values on sex are being marketed as feminism and idiots are buying into it. W-what? give me an example
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Jul 5, 2015 07:22
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One lone rich man's eternal struggle against a narratively-enforced genetic disposition to crime
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Jul 5, 2015 07:24
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Hashy posted:One lone rich man's eternal struggle against a narratively-enforced genetic disposition to crime
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Jul 5, 2015 07:36
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Hashy posted:Is anyone actually incredulous at Batman being a deeply conservative narrative I honestly imagine most people don't care one way or the other, since a vast vast majority do not base their entertainment preferences on their politics unless their entertainment/lives are politics which is relatively few. Most people are just laughing at treating it with such gravity. It is a dude who dresses up as a big bat and punches a guy dressed in question marks.
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Jul 5, 2015 07:48
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Dapper Dan posted:I honestly imagine most people don't care one way or the other, since a vast vast majority do not base their entertainment preferences on their politics unless their entertainment/lives are politics which is relatively few. Most people are just laughing at treating it with such gravity. It is a dude who dresses up as a big bat and punches a guy dressed in question marks. These are the pertinent questions. Does society have its outlook shaped by works like this? Is cultural critique important as a result? I don't want to answer hasti--wait, it's 'yes'.
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Jul 5, 2015 07:52
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Dapper Dan posted:I honestly imagine most people don't care one way or the other, since a vast vast majority do not base their entertainment preferences on their politics unless their entertainment/lives are politics which is relatively few. Most people are just laughing at treating it with such gravity. It is a dude who dresses up as a big bat and punches a guy dressed in question marks.
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Jul 5, 2015 07:58
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Nessus posted:So wait, do people not care or are people laughing at the people treating it with gravity? I'd go with apathy over laughter. Most people probably don't care. Hashy posted:These are the pertinent questions. Does society have its outlook shaped by works like this? Is cultural critique important as a result? I don't want to answer hasti--wait, it's 'yes'. And what do we do with that information if there's no control over what creators create and what people can buy? Do we impose restrictions? Do we shame and berate people if they create something we don't like? Or do we just not buy it or consume it?
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Jul 5, 2015 08:10
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Dapper Dan posted:And what do we do with that information if there's no control over what creators create and what people can buy? Do we impose restrictions? Do we shame and berate people if they create something we don't like? Or do we just not buy it or consume it? We examine the media we consume and foster a culture of introspection in the way we consume it so we are aware of the influences it has. Self-labeled "cultural critics" assist with that. Reviewers that criticize the way GTA5 treats women are taking part in that. Our drat high school English classes are largely about that.
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Jul 5, 2015 08:22
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Dapper Dan posted:And what do we do with that information if there's no control over what creators create and what people can buy? Do we impose restrictions? Do we shame and berate people if they create something we don't like? Or do we just not buy it or consume it? quote:Kevin: ...Well, you're always gonna have restraints, based on what culture you're born into. The concept of memes was first proposed by Richand Dawkins in a book called "The Selfish Gene." Dawkins, a biologist, stated that even if the actions of a living thing appear to be altruistic...Each of its genes is still engaging in selfish behavior -- purely as a matter of survival.
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Jul 5, 2015 08:41
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natetimm posted:Puritanical values on sex are being marketed as feminism and idiots are buying into it. Whoa look it's Patriarchy Judo! You strike at me with feminism? I USE THE POWER OF YOUR OWN ATTACK AGAINST YOU and suddenly become super concerned with women's sexual expression! Which as we all know is best represented by a chain mail bikini.
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Jul 5, 2015 09:03
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Anita Sarkeesian... your feminist memes end here.
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Jul 5, 2015 09:52
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Well the Sarkeezy Effect people are having a slapfight again. dime store Kane wants more money without talking to dime store Romero, dime store Romero is calling Kane a useless and greedy gently caress. So now they're making videos making GBS threads on each other. Truly the gift that keeps giving.
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Jul 5, 2015 10:02
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SedanChair posted:Whoa look it's Patriarchy Judo! You strike at me with feminism? I USE THE POWER OF YOUR OWN ATTACK AGAINST YOU and suddenly become super concerned with women's sexual expression! Which as we all know is best represented by a chain mail bikini. Except isn't this Puritanical Values being packaged as feminism? Women treated equally and not discriminated, I think that's something people can get behind. Getting into stuff where "sexy clothing" is discriminatory against women is getting kinda sketchy. And the Sarkesian/Mcintosh assertion that feminism shouldn't even include violence as it's too masculine is really out there.
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Jul 5, 2015 10:03
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Shadoer posted:Except isn't this Puritanical Values being packaged as feminism? It's sketchy if you don't know anything, at all, about the history of objectification of women.
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Jul 5, 2015 10:05
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