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LoonShia posted:Why isn't it called "The Friendzone"? I can't wait for ladies night at the friend zone.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:31
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quote:Children of the Horned Rat: Verminous Offering. What the actual gently caress.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:33
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So this is all an elaborate troll across the internet using some fake homebrew rules right? I looked at this thread and the other and it just seems far to stupid to be real.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:36
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d3c0y2 posted:So this is all an elaborate troll across the internet using some fake homebrew rules right? I looked at this thread and the other and it just seems far to stupid to be real. All real, mate. Head to the GW website, click on any unit in the Fantasy Catalogue, and scroll down. There should be a link that says "Click here for your free PDF download", and you'll get the war scroll for the army in question which contains the rules.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:39
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CommissarMega posted:All real, mate. Head to the GW website, click on any unit in the Fantasy Catalogue, and scroll down. There should be a link that says "Click here for your free PDF download", and you'll get the war scroll for the army in question which contains the rules. Free rules? Now we know somethings wrong. If they were $150/book I'd believe you.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:52
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I mean, on their own those rules seem like they could be actually pretty fun for a small lighthearted spinoff or something. But this is something that GW demolished pretty much half of its entire product line for and that is apparently intended to entirely replace that.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:54
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Cakefool posted:Free rules? Now we know somethings wrong. If they were $150/book I'd believe you. I know, right? It seems GW really, really thinks it can make the majority of its money from the models. Also, more rules (also includes the rules I posted earlier): 
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Jul 4, 2015 23:10
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thewireguy posted:Oh, yesterday I dropped off a card to make signs for a new bar. "My parent's basement" that will have a full comic book store inside and magic tournaments, warhammer, etc. Truth is stranger than fiction. I've seen sober gamers throw item-breaking temper tantrums in game stores. Drunk gamers in a theme bar? I'd pay to watch those fights.
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Jul 4, 2015 23:21
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queserasera posted:I've seen sober gamers throw item-breaking temper tantrums in game stores. Drunk gamers in a theme bar? I'd pay to watch those fights. Me too. I may go after work to watch nerds fight. I will keep yall posted. Is there a YouTube channel for this?
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Jul 4, 2015 23:26
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Perestroika posted:I mean, on their own those rules seem like they could be actually pretty fun for a small lighthearted spinoff or something. But this is something that GW demolished pretty much half of its entire product line for and that is apparently intended to entirely replace that. The rules make me think of the joke sets Magic: The gathering put out. Cracked, and Unglued. These rules sound like it'd be fun if you were playing with people for fun, and not taking poo poo seriously, but considering the player base....
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Jul 5, 2015 00:53
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Johnny Aztec posted:The rules make me think of the joke sets Magic: The gathering put out. Cracked, and Unglued. These rules sound like it'd be fun if you were playing with people for fun, and not taking poo poo seriously, but considering the player base....
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Jul 5, 2015 01:02
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CommissarMega posted:I know, right? It seems GW really, really thinks it can make the majority of its money from the models. It's like a 40 year old businessman spent an entire week reading tumblr and then tried to capture that experience into their rulebook.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:51
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As I read the text in that image my eyes kept uncontrollably drifting towards the margins looking for Sergio Aragones doodles. I can understand a little of that silliness cordoned off in a single faction, but the entire game?  E: VVVVV Legit thanks for those links, I love reading about companies slowly shaking themselves apart over a number of years. bucketmouse has a new favorite as of 04:17 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 02:16
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Games Workshop has to be the only company I've seen which seems actively against promoting their product and developing a community. Not to say others haven't made dumb moves, but they at least eat humble pie and try and repair the damage. Allegedly the video games market was frowned upon as they feared people would just play that instead of buy more models - allegedly why you'd never see every race or a large amount of unit types in a game (that and balance issues). This changed when their share value peaked around 2004/5. THQ was providing a good share from royalties. This warchest wasn't enough to pay damages from attempting to take on Chapterhouse (and loosing) and then the GFC hit. Another example was them ditching supports for official tournaments. There's a hefty writeup here of just how bad this got. The TL;DR version is that GW realized how expensive hosting a tourney was (irrespective of any flow on effect) and started cutting corners, cheaper prizes and then dropping off the radar leaving everyone to do the heavy lifting. For a short time they found a compromise and offered auxiliary support ($2000 prize vouchers), but that was hampered by poor scoring apps and their bloated rules which caused them to pull down their forums from protests. And apparently the stores have a very testy relationship with GW. Independent stores struggle to get into their good graces and be allowed to stock things, there's tales of people running afoul of GW's demands regardless if they're official or not. And then there's buying things online - Mark Wells explains that due to shifting currencies you are not getting a "free-ride" on our bandwagon - because we don't want to loose any fiscal edge. In other words if stock is traded outside of Europe, there's hefty markup. Which is why everything is incredibly expensive in Australia. There's a massive writeup of what went wrong after 2004. Oh and salting the earth of the fanbase by demanding popular sites to be removed, due to supplying rumors, and clamping down on any fan films that look too good. Oh and regarding 3D printing, that is happening but I suspect the cost and time is marginally cheaper. Adding: and before that it was possible to get cheap re-casts from the Ukraine, which is allegedly why GW changed up their model materials a few times to try and get in more details that you can't replicate from creating a mold. Of course that leads to the debates of plastic vs white metal vs pewter vs resin. Apparently the resin casts are a bit too fragile and come with air bubbles - plus are more expensive. Mizuti posted:I wonder how Games Workshop still has any pull? BogDew has a new favorite as of 04:33 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 02:50
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Munchkin is sort of a parody of the whiny, D&D player that's always arguing about rules. They sell T-shirts that give you certain bonuses if you wear them. There's also a $50 iphone app that gives you giant bonuses just for buying it.
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Jul 5, 2015 03:02
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I wonder how Games Workshop still has any pull, considering how hostile and nakedly greedy they are. Surely there are some different but comparable franchises that don't insist on nonstop making GBS threads on their customers and suppliers?
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Jul 5, 2015 03:57
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Considering Fantasy Battle was only small percentage of sales and interest in it has been dropping off for years, they can afford to try something new. 40k is the overwhelming majority of their sales that drives what money they do make, so if Age of Sigmar turns out to be a wet fart, they'll shove a new regular fantasy edition out in a few years and complain that it failed because the fanbase wasn't willing to accept change and was to conservative. The only good thing is the rules are free and all your old stuff is free to use as well. I find this hilarious because If I wanted to play I'd never have to spend another time at GW ever again. God some of the rules are loving eyerolling though. I can understand trying to do something in the spirit of the characters and such, but as a poster above said, it sounds like out of touch gaming exec looked online to see what the kids think is awesome these days. pentyne posted:- Ceased production of paperbacks to force people to buy their insanely expensive ebooks (about $20 or more for years old books) Paperbacks are still available, and everyone price gouges on ebooks anyways. The second is just are you thinking of heroclicks?Oh my favorite story about butterfly labs was some buttcoiner going to their office to ask what was going on and why they had delays, and the guy who came out to talk to him was playing with a butterfly knife the whole time.
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Jul 5, 2015 04:29
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Mizuti posted:I wonder how Games Workshop still has any pull, considering how hostile and nakedly greedy they are. Surely there are some different but comparable franchises that don't insist on nonstop making GBS threads on their customers and suppliers?
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Jul 5, 2015 05:43
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pookel posted:There are not many. The problem with this sort of game is that in order to even play it, you need a reasonably sized army that is compatible with your friends' armies, and each individual army is a sizeable investment, like hundreds of dollars at a minimum. So even players who hate dealing with GW consider it a necessary evil. You don't want to be the first one to invest in a non-GW game, only to find that no one else is getting into it at your local shop and you're stuck with an army you can't use. So a loose monopoly by way of community support. That's a tough road to hoe.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:53
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Is heroclicks bad? I would never spend real money on it, but it looked fun...
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Jul 5, 2015 05:54
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thewireguy posted:Is heroclicks bad? I would never spend real money on it, but it looked fun... My friends are giant goobers who have probably spent at LEAST 1k on it, and literally have boxes and boxes full of the things. Then when they play it's slow, there's a million different rules to account for, they argue a bunch and it almost always is apparent who's going to win within like, two turns and the rest is just mop up. So if that's your thing, sure, go for it.
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Jul 5, 2015 06:09
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People do realize you don't have to play a game the way its makers tell you, right? I mean, all of that sounds like an april fool's joke, but you don't have to do anything with them.
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Jul 5, 2015 07:38
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CommissarMega posted:I know, right? It seems GW really, really thinks it can make the majority of its money from the models. Johnny Aztec posted:The rules make me think of the joke sets Magic: The gathering put out. Cracked, and Unglued. These rules sound like it'd be fun if you were playing with people for fun, and not taking poo poo seriously, but considering the player base.... davidspackage posted:People do realize you don't have to play a game the way its makers tell you, right? I mean, all of that sounds like an april fool's joke, but you don't have to do anything with them.
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Jul 5, 2015 07:48
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Warhams is very serious and I will not have any silly rules get in the way of my plastic green orcs bumping into one another
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Jul 5, 2015 08:08
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Dr_Amazing posted:Munchkin is sort of a parody of the whiny, D&D player that's always arguing about rules. They sell T-shirts that give you certain bonuses if you wear them. There's also a $50 iphone app that gives you giant bonuses just for buying it. Munchkin gets away with that because of where "munchkin" started. It's poking fun at people who will do anything at all to win any game ever, even games you aren't supposed to "win" like D&D. Munchkin is just a silly card game that's mostly based on hilarity based on the weird characters you end up making, the ridiculous ways the game unfolds, and the hilarious ways you can dick everybody else over. More sets keep coming out and even at the get go they had those bookmarks you could buy, bring to the table, and tear up for some bonus or another. Or maybe those were given away. I forget. Anyway the reason pay to win stuff works in Munchkin is that it's very sarcastic about what you're doing and really does point out that if you buy a t-shirt just to have an easier time winning Munchkin then you're exactly the person the game is making fun of and you're a doofus. Munckin is also a highly random beer and pretzels game that you really can't minmax very well so even if you buy the massive advantage the game will still very well go "lol nope" and not let you win. Part of what makes it fun. Sometimes you can also find other stupid poo poo to do within the game. I remember one time not even bothering trying to win and instead trying to complete the laserphasermaserblaserraser and collect all the socks. Warhammer games though are kind of serious and actually used to have a major competitive scene to them. That was kind of the point of a point system. Yeah part of the hobby was collecting a crap load of figures. Part of the fun was painting and creating a big cool looking army even if you'd never really get to field the whole thing very often. Competitive play was stuff like "OK everybody has 3,000 points make the best army you can." For a while rules changes were kind of slow but it became apparent how lovely a company GW was fairly early on. Sometimes their magazine (White Dwarf) would release official rules where if painted X troop in Y way they'd get some sort of bonus (but you had to use the official paint and get the exact right colors!!!!!) and be just flat out better than troops of a comparable type. Power creep really started to kick in too. Then you'd see tournaments where you were only allowed to use certain sets of those or very specific editions where the organizer's favorite race had an advantage. poo poo was a gigantic mess. Over time the game's balance became continually more terrible. Then GW, in their infinite wisdom, started saying crap like "well we're a miniatures company not a game company." Game is right in the title of the drat company's name and one of the main reasons people bought the minis was to play games with them. It really doesn't surprise me that now they're going "well here you go, just bring everything you own and throw it all on the table who cares, whatever." That's literally pay to win. Mizuti posted:I wonder how Games Workshop still has any pull, considering how hostile and nakedly greedy they are. Surely there are some different but comparable franchises that don't insist on nonstop making GBS threads on their customers and suppliers? It's pure inertia relying on the sunk cost fallacy at this point. There are people that have spent tends of thousands of dollars on the game by this point. Plus like was said you'd suddenly end up with rear end loads of figures suddenly becoming worthless. The collections some people have are massive.
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Jul 5, 2015 08:28
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Every game ever is a silly waste of time and lol if you don't spend every minute of off-time either studying your rear end off or sitting in a dark room motionless pretending you're a robot in idle mode.
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Jul 5, 2015 08:35
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ToxicSlurpee posted:It's pure inertia relying on the sunk cost fallacy at this point. There are people that have spent tends of thousands of dollars on the game by this point. Plus like was said you'd suddenly end up with rear end loads of figures suddenly becoming worthless. The collections some people have are massive. GW cut costs and made stuff more expensive, and found that they lost customers but profits still went up because the current customer base would pay the inflated prices. There is a critical failure point to that business model coming in the next decade or so and it's going to be hilarious to watch that company implode.
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Jul 5, 2015 08:52
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mind the walrus posted:Every game ever is a silly waste of time and lol if you don't spend every minute of off-time either studying your rear end off or sitting in a dark room motionless pretending you're a robot in idle mode. What?
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Jul 5, 2015 08:52
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Every game is a silly waste of time. That is the point. Not throwing money into a fire is an option.
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Jul 5, 2015 09:01
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I was thinking of getting into Warhammer 40k a few years ago, because there was a fairly active group in my town, and one of my oldest friends was into it, as was his sisters kid, so finding someone to play with wouldn't be a problem. Plus the whole model making thing seemed cool. Problem was, I couldn't justify the absolutely ridiculous prices the models were going for (I'm in Australia), so I held off. Then I got to watch from the sidelines as GW proceeded to be enormous cockheads to everyone they met and decided it wasn't worth the trouble. Edit: Also, I seem to remember there were like, 2 or 3 publications dedicated to Warhammer side from White Dwarf? I remember because my mother (who is a very good sculptor among other things) was commissioned by some guy to make clay replicas of some of his units, and he gave her a bunch of magazines as referance material, and a few of his models. I think his whole reasoning was it was waaaay cheaper to get someone to make them, and the resin ones he had tended to melt in the heat we have here. Anyway, I remember the magazines were filled with rule changes and new rules and spreads about new armies and there was one I remember where some guy bought 2 different armies then combined the pieces to make some pretty sweet looking models that also had buffs from both armies? Like the raw firepower of one army but the stealth of the other, because he put stealthy Army1 legs on a Torso and arms of Army 2 holding an Army1 weapon. The models looked awesome as hell though. The piece was all about how great his custom army was. Also, I remember lots and lots of really bad fan fiction. Like, a lot. princecoo has a new favorite as of 10:03 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 09:54
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princecoo posted:I was thinking of getting into Warhammer 40k a few years ago, because there was a fairly active group in my town, and one of my oldest friends was into it, as was his sisters kid, so finding someone to play with wouldn't be a problem. Plus the whole model making thing seemed cool. Problem was, I couldn't justify the absolutely ridiculous prices the models were going for (I'm in Australia), so I held off. Then I got to watch from the sidelines as GW proceeded to be enormous cockheads to everyone they met and decided it wasn't worth the trouble. This was my arc with Warhammer as well, but in the late 90s. Even when I was at the height of my "Stupid money sinkhole nerd hobby" phase I couldn't justify it and all the years since have vindicated me.
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Jul 5, 2015 09:58
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I managed to get into it right at the tail end of 2nd edition into third, but was interested in it enough that I had a lot of the old Rogue Trader era minis bought to paint up. I remember a 6 pack of Space Marines being like $12.99, and thats how I started getting into it. Eventually I discovered I could have a more cost effective and enjoyable time spending the money it would take to make an army up to full strength and invest it directly into cocaine.
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Jul 5, 2015 10:04
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14 INCH SLIT posted:I managed to get into it right at the tail end of 2nd edition into third, but was interested in it enough that I had a lot of the old Rogue Trader era minis bought to paint up. I remember a 6 pack of Space Marines being like $12.99, and thats how I started getting into it. Eventually I discovered I could have a more cost effective and enjoyable time spending the money it would take to make an army up to full strength and invest it directly into cocaine. Yeah, here in Australia I can get a squad of marines for around $90. My steam sale addiction is nothing in comparison.
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Jul 5, 2015 10:12
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I bit the Warhammer hook, sinker and all, some 20ish years back. Yeah, I sank about $150 into little plastic dudes, but then I discovered sex and booze and weed and never looked back. Thing is, there are plenty of dumb preteens with dollars to burn, and so as long as GW can keep hooking that 9-13 market, they can still do okay, because no matter how many grownup mankids realize that yes, the rules all suck and the company doesn't care, there are still more dumb 12-year-old-me's to drop more cash on the army du jour. Of course, that's getting to be a harder market to shove into nowadays, and even with a corner on the minis-games market, GW is still loving up big time while similar-non-video-nerd-cash-cow Magic is still making bank. Really, the comparison between the two game lines should be read as a textbook in game/IP management.
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Jul 5, 2015 10:12
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OutsideAngel posted:I bit the Warhammer hook, sinker and all, some 20ish years back. Yeah, I sank about $150 into little plastic dudes, but then I discovered sex and booze and weed and never looked back. I haven't played Magic in a long time but last I heard they balance the hell out of it and mostly do a good job. It's still a financial sink but you can get into Magic for less than 40K as it stands. Plus with Magic your cards never really just plain vanish from the game. There are entire lines of old GW figures that are no longer even playable. Yeah you need an rear end load of money to get into the competitive Magic tournament scene but you can play the game and have fun for way less than 40K.
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Jul 5, 2015 10:33
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My dad used to play Warhammer Fantasy back in the 80s, so I think I've got around 10-15lbs of lead minis somewhere. I remember reading a absolutely terrible 40k omnibus I found at a branch library when I was a teenager, it had a story about a assassin infiltrating a Genestealer cult and devoted like a page to them taking a dump. 
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Jul 5, 2015 10:38
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C.M. Kruger posted:My dad used to play Warhammer Fantasy back in the 80s, so I think I've got around 10-15lbs of lead minis somewhere. So.... the terrible fanfiction I remember from the magazines may very well have been cannon supplied by the company itself? Oh dear.
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Jul 5, 2015 10:40
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mind the walrus posted:Every game ever is a silly waste of time and lol if you don't spend every minute of off-time either studying your rear end off or sitting in a dark room motionless pretending you're a robot in idle mode. Haha, this sounds just like my roommate.
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Jul 5, 2015 10:50
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C.M. Kruger posted:My dad used to play Warhammer Fantasy back in the 80s, so I think I've got around 10-15lbs of lead minis somewhere. Don't you loving dare discredit the work Ian Watson did in the W40K universe. A credited, respectable sci-fi author was given carte blanche for that poo poo and he held nothing back. He explored every angle of the early 90s WK40k fictions and loving owned it. Decades late everything coming out is the most banal poorly written poo poo you could imagine, mostly because there now an insane set of rules any GW author has to abide by, and the good authors and few and far between. There are maybe 2 great authors working the GW circuit among dozens, and they don't get the recognition they deserve. There's a reason GW no longer publishes the Inquistion War series, mostly because a professional writer decided to take their idea to a logical conclusion and GW loving hates what he did.
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Jul 5, 2015 11:04
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I haven't played Magic in a long time but last I heard they balance the hell out of it and mostly do a good job. It's still a financial sink but you can get into Magic for less than 40K as it stands. Plus with Magic your cards never really just plain vanish from the game. There are entire lines of old GW figures that are no longer even playable. Yeah you need an rear end load of money to get into the competitive Magic tournament scene but you can play the game and have fun for way less than 40K. Just one of many reasons that Magic is still a money-printing factory (completely ignoring the respective quality of the games in question). Although I could write a couple thousand words about how long most cards tend to 'last' in the game, and how the most popular competitive scene probable costs more than 40k in the long run... But this is the 'dumb marketing' thread, so instead I'll talk about the Reserved List. Back when Magic was young and just starting to really skyrocket, there was a big scare among 'collectors' that Wizards of the Coast could just reprint all of their just-becoming-valuable-pieces-of-cardboard, thus devaluing their nonexistant worth. So Wizards of the Coast, in order to appease the 'collectors' published a list of cards made up from the earliest sets in the game, that they would never reprint or "functionally reprint" which means make a new card that is effectively the same but with a different name or whatever. Now, this might not sound so bad, except that Wizards also decided that they wanted to officially support a game mode in which you can use cards from just about every expansion, including the cards on the Reserved List. This includes company-sponsored tournaments, Grand Prixs, etc. And, in fact, all of the most competitive decks used anywhere from 4-34 cards on this list. So you have an artificially fixed commodity, coupled with an intentionally growing number of people who want that item. Sound great for Wizards, no? Except, because of the Reserved List, they can't offer any supply to meet that demand. Instead, the second-hand market is free to charge $200 PER CARD, cards that Wizards hasn't printed in decades. We're just now (within the last couple of years) starting to see Chinese print shops offer passable counterfeits on demand, not because they couldn't before, but because there's never been so much money in it. (The best/worst thing about the Reserved List is that the later you look, the more obvious it becomes that they were Reserving cards not based on age, but on how powerful they thought they were/would be. Also their 'predictions' were sometimes pretty dumb. Radiant, but not Tinker?)
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Jul 5, 2015 11:29
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