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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:Counterpoint: I thought you were arguing against ESO
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Jul 5, 2015 03:08
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It's loving fascinating to go back to EQ today and see how it's evolved over time. They've tried (emphasis on TRIED) to implement a bunch of QoL improvements but they still have to thread them through the ancient janky framework that is EQ's engine. The result is a shitton of new UI windows that try to interface with the older systems, like the new quest system that notes actual stages and objectives but still expects you to walk up to random NPC's and ask them very specific phrases to get anything done. They've also updated old zones with "new" graphics. I use the term "new" here very losely because it still looks like poo poo for the most part and there's no real rhyme or reason to it. A bunch of updated areas are still randomly seperated by places that look like they came straight out of 1999 and I don't think they've touched any of the expansion areas at all. It's basically become a cross section of the last 15+ years of MMO development. It's like the video game equivalent of a living fossil.
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Jul 5, 2015 04:40
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i am tim! posted:As I understand Warriors were the best main tanks for large scale raids, where the raw specialization was more valuable. In any other situation where you DON'T have two of each class buffing away your weaknesses, the varied kits that Paladins and Shadow Knights are way more useful. This is the truth of it. Warriors had NO extra threat generation outside of weapon procs, but were gigantic sacks of HP that could take an extra hit or two before dying, which meant the healers could keep their rotation right without worrying about emergency top offs. SKs and Paladins had spells they could use to gain threat and generally keep better control of a fight with, whereas the warrior just stood there and hoped his Short Sword of the Ykesha proc went off enough, while hammering taunt. In regards to being sacks of HP, if I remember right, it was Furor Planedefiler (Foror in EQ) who was the first player to break the complete heal HP limit; complete heal, for a good amount of time for the spell, was ALWAYS a complete heal, because it healed for a set amount of HP that they figured no one could ever reach. Then someone hit it and a CH didn't fully top them off. But regardless, I don't think warriors gained ANYTHING to help with tanking until the Alternate Advancement system was added, when they added tomes to give abilities like 'provoke' that did nothing but add hate to the threat table.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:25
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To make a long story short, you really should stick your balls and dick into the meat grinder instead
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Jul 5, 2015 10:49
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:Counterpoint: "So what race did you choose?" "The Orange Box."
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Jul 5, 2015 10:58
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onesixtwo posted:Ogre Warriors made the best raid main tank. They sat there and autoattacked things to death, but relied on weapon procs to hold threat. This is as hilariously dumb as it sounds but they had the best mitigation and HP pool. This later got reinforced by giving them some pretty powerful long cooldown tanking abilities in the first expansion. As a result of relying on procs to be any amount of useful in a tanking role, leveling warriors were garbage unless they were twinks. Ogre's made the best raid tanks because they couldn't be stunned from the front. That's it. Warrior taunt was also broken as gently caress since launch to the point that it only worked correctly if you put a training point into it no matter what skill level it said you were at. Paladins were good tanks and had "amazing agro" back then because of blind forcing a mob to attack the closest thing to it so they would just stand inside a mobs hit box. Shadowknights were the tits because Disease Cloud and Clinging Darkness had a stupid amount of +threat incorrectly tied to it for years. What I'm trying to say is, Everquest was a horribly broken game and because it was such we now have many key staples of what makes a MMORPG today and that it was the best video game ever made.
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Jul 5, 2015 11:50
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Being an Iksar Necromancer in LDON-era EQ on Tallon Zek (team PvP, medium pop) was legitimately fun as hell. The hardest of the hardcore were grinding instances and keeping quiet, so the rest of the utterly giant game world was mostly casuals out wandering around, impromptu grouping and occasionally fighting (you could group with the other team and PvP rewards were coin-on-body only, so PvP was actually kind of rare). I realize now that it was kind of a perfect set of conditions that made a supremely lovely game actually rather enjoyable and nothing like the horror stories you'll hear elsewhere, but still. If there's one thing I've learned about MMOs, it's that trying to keep up with cutting edge content -- namely raids -- will always be utterly miserable poo poo. I typically hit level cap and cancel my subscription, then come back 8-12 months later and casual-mode enjoy whatever the teeth-gnashingly hard things were when I quit. Worked like a charm for FF14. e: Also Tera, Guild Wars 2, and WoW. Pretty much everything else is dead or just godawful at this point (SWTOR, ESO, Wildstar, Archeage,Vanguard, EQ2, and I'm sure I'm forgetting plenty more). boho fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 19:29
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boho posted:If there's one thing I've learned about MMOs, it's that trying to keep up with cutting edge content -- namely raids -- will always be utterly miserable poo poo. This is true. I saw top end poo poo in EQ a handful of times and it was the old 'kill billions of trash mobs for hours on end to get an attempt at a boss for a few hours before you have to clear again,' at least in the Planes of Power era. All of my favorite stories were just from experiencing the world. Sitting at the commons as a dark elf necromancer and selling drinks and pies to people, getting my fat troll SK rear end stuck in a chimney while goofing off and having the GMs pretend I was Santa Troll and get stuck with me, just generally goofy poo poo that had little to do with 'kill mobs, loot belts, give belts to NPC for experience and coin.'
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Jul 5, 2015 23:47
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Hahahaha I remember way back when. I think Plane of Fear was the first plane they added? People woul clear trash for upwards of 12 hours to get to Innoruuk (right?) God help you if the Monk feigned death at the wrong time and pulled more than one mob, imagine doing this poo poo for 10 hours, then having a raid wipe, then having to FD-drag corpses back to the entrance of the zone so people could get rezzes (and still lose XP!)
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Jul 6, 2015 02:24
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I miss Vanguard and want it to come back. Screw EQ
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Jul 6, 2015 03:06
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WarLocke posted:Hahahaha I remember way back when. I think Plane of Fear was the first plane they added? People woul clear trash for upwards of 12 hours to get to Innoruuk (right?) Fear was Cazic-Thule, but otherwise yes. Fear was a loving massive zone and EVERYTHING had to be pulled because once CT was engaged the entire zone aggro'd you. Clearing took loving forever. You basically had a group on pull duty consisting of monks, rangers, and a bard. They pulled the entire zone piece by piece to keep a steady flow for the entire time you were up there. Plane of Hate was Inny, and it was more fun that fear since you actually moved through the place. Also the mob design was more interesting.
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Jul 6, 2015 03:45
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didn't nothing drop from anything at all except the big bad at the very end
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Jul 6, 2015 04:01
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No, the trash had drops, too. Man, I used to know all the gods in EQ and a lot of the drat lore. If it had one thing going for it, it was it had a big loving world and all of the deities seemed to actually have a place everywhere and had a lot of lore intertwined with them. I did love how they'd have events to permanently change zones thanks to story, like Nektulos forest, I think it was? Between the commons and the karanas. Also, I remember most of the gods having a pretty cool depiction. Except Rodcet Nife, the god of healing, because he looks like a loving sectoid from X-Com with a toga.
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Jul 6, 2015 04:37
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John Dyne posted:No, the trash had drops, too. Kithicor forest. Peaceful by day, full of level ~40 undead by night. Ran through by level 10 barbarians and level 14 enchanters constantly.
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Jul 6, 2015 04:41
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John Dyne posted:I did love how they'd have events to permanently change zones thanks to story, like Nektulos forest, I think it was? Between the commons and the karanas. That was the only big change that I remember though? Although I didn't play after the third or fourth expansion. Also, that change in particular hosed over Halflings pretty badly. Yes, let's take the zone right outside of one race's starting city and make it level 40+  And I played one 
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Jul 6, 2015 04:42
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WarLocke posted:That was the only big change that I remember though? The dark elf zone was changed a bit, if I remember. Some of the changes were temporary, unlike Kithicor; some Kunark zone was changed when Firionia Vie's forces took over for awhile and made a beachhead against some monstrosity there, I think related to the Planes of Power storyline. I think they learned that permanently loving with a zone to make it appeal to high level players was bad, so they were temporary from then on.
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Jul 6, 2015 04:52
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:What? Who would think this is a good idea for an MMO? I... why? Gildiss posted:Korea is known for quality progaming, not quality programming. A bit late but from what I've read, Korean MMO security is laughable for a few reasons. Most people just don't have a powerful-enough desktop rig for a variety of reasons so internet cafes are still very much a thing. Accounts are also way harder to make, since they require their social security number and so it's not easy to recover from getting an account banned for buying gold. The result is that there's not a readily available market of people who buy gold. Another aspect is that the various anti-hacking software they use is from a company that has political connections to force that stuff on most games. So most people can't really do much cheating at all because they're on computers at an internet cafe and their account details are more deeply linked to their actual identities. The result is they don't have to have security measures that would be insane to go without elsewhere. I have no idea if other Asian MMO situations are similar. The internet cafe thing does somewhat explain why so many upcoming KMMOs have insanely detailed graphics and poo poo that would be unthinkable in the west because most people don't have rigs to run it as nicely, and wouldn't want to play a game where they've had to turn off a lot of prettiness just for it to run. Take this all with a grain of salt though because it's the usual "I heard this poo poo on the internet."
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Jul 6, 2015 06:02
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Flesh Forge posted:didn't nothing drop from anything at all except the big bad at the very end trash dropped all of the loot save for a few pieces. fear / hate clears were a thing because the boss mobs had a week spawn timer whereas trash was 24 hours
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Jul 6, 2015 06:57
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onesixtwo posted:trash dropped all of the loot save for a few pieces. fear / hate clears were a thing because the boss mobs had a week spawn timer whereas trash was 24 hours This reminds me of how guilds would camp mobs so nobody else could get the drops, and how many people absolutely seethed when games started moving to instanced content to fight this practice.  Hell, when EQ introduced Instant Adventures (I think is what they were called) people were pissed because now you didn't have to get on the waiting list for the whatever. Serious crab mentality there.
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Jul 6, 2015 07:11
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onesixtwo posted:Fear was Cazic-Thule, but otherwise yes. Fear was a loving massive zone and EVERYTHING had to be pulled because once CT was engaged the entire zone aggro'd you. Clearing took loving forever. You basically had a group on pull duty consisting of monks, rangers, and a bard. They pulled the entire zone piece by piece to keep a steady flow for the entire time you were up there. Maybe when they redid Plane of Hate, but initially it was a miserable experience. When it was first released, most of the mobs there had pets. So the pull team had to not only pull the mob, but pull its pet as well. The pathing was so terrible there the pets would run off in the middle of the pull and agro half the zone.
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Jul 6, 2015 07:54
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I enjoy having a not-too-vitriolic Hellthread for MMOs. A friend who still plays WoW lent me 50,000g so that I could get a month's sub using the new token system and I feel really bad because I've logged in maybe three time to check out 6.2, which was also confirmed to be the last major patch of the expansion. Also the only major patch because almost nobody is buying the idea that 6.1 (twitter integration, selfie camera, some toys, character model update and garrison missions) counts as major. Lot of people getting really mad about this one, Warlords of Draenor has been a clusterfuck. Will be interesting to see the Q2 numbers. Pierson fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 09:35
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Pierson posted:Lot of people getting really mad about this one, Warlords of Draenor has been a clusterfuck. Will be interesting to see the Q2 numbers. I've heard 5 Million from people I'd probably trust about a month ago. Remember WotLK peaked at 12 million
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Jul 6, 2015 09:43
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WarLocke posted:This reminds me of how guilds would camp mobs so nobody else could get the drops, and how many people absolutely seethed when games started moving to instanced content to fight this practice. sometimes i wish for a convenient way to read authentic old guard reactions like that
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Jul 6, 2015 10:33
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people always talk about WoW subscriber numbers dropping but i think that having several millions of paying customers is pretty good for a game that's so old, especially since it's no longer the only edible fish in the pond [e] wait i think that's not how this methapor works, oh well
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Jul 6, 2015 10:35
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Both Plane of Fear and Hate was won or lost in the first five minutes of group 1 zoning in because they were the Seal Team Six that had to deal with the initial train of mobs being thrown at you. If your enchanter didn't have balls of steel you were hosed. God help you if you got 3 ire sprites on the zone in on a Fear break.
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Jul 6, 2015 10:58
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RottenK posted:people always talk about WoW subscriber numbers dropping but i think that having several millions of paying customers is pretty good for a game that's so old, especially since it's no longer the only edible fish in the pond A publicly traded company feels the same way about losing 6 people out of 10 people playing their game (wildstar/Nexon) as losing 7 million of their 12 million (WoW/Activison)
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Jul 6, 2015 11:44
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RottenK posted:people always talk about WoW subscriber numbers dropping but i think that having several millions of paying customers is pretty good for a game that's so old, especially since it's no longer the only edible fish in the pond BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:I've heard 5 Million from people I'd probably trust about a month ago. quote:Remember WotLK peaked at 12 million EDIT: Expansions are usually announced at Blizzcon right? Then alphas and beats start a few months later. That's an insane amount of time for this to be it. I think they'll have to put out something between now and then because that is a poo poo-long time to go with nothuing but current content. Especially when GW2 and SWTOR are getting expansions, FF14 gives major content patches regularly, and who-knows what else will try to draw people away. Pierson fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 12:24
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Didn't people say the same thing i Mists? The last patch lasted for over a year if I remember right. Why is WoD so bad anyway? I stopped a few months before it came out, but a lot of the ideas sounded good and people seemed to look forward to it.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:25
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:A publicly traded company feels the same way about losing 6 people out of 10 people playing their game (wildstar/Nexon) as losing 7 million of their 12 million (WoW/Activison) lol no
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Jul 6, 2015 13:30
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Sjonkel posted:Didn't people say the same thing i Mists? The last patch lasted for over a year if I remember right. garrisons suck, it has the highest price tag and the lowest amount of content of any expansion to date. hell if you want to count content that was supposed to be in at launch, hellfire citadel is the only 'new' content that wasn't supposed to be in 6.0.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:39
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Sjonkel posted:Didn't people say the same thing i Mists? The last patch lasted for over a year if I remember right. If MoP exposed the skinner box with its millions of dailies, WoD is even worse and just oozes "can't be arsed to put more resources into development, let's pad out what we have and gate everything" everywhere. Blizzard was talking about faster content cycles (for like the 10th time) and yearly expansion releases and still priced WoD higher than ever before, though, so this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who paid attention.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:43
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Garrisons sounded like a great idea (your own personal fort!) and even felt like it for a month or two at release, but then afterwards when you had built it a whole bunch of stuff happened!
And that's just the garrisons. The plot was boneheaded (almost every orc warlord, the titular enemies of the expansion, were taken out like chumps) and fell victim to that thing Blizzard does where lore-important characters will do and take credit for things players really wanted to do themselves. Where Burning Crusade and Wrath got actual cities and even Mists had a really nice temple complex, Warlords has something that looks like a scaled-up town from Swamp of Sorrows, just a really ugly bunch of mudhuts. Taking it meta, one of the major zones that was going to be at release was held back until 6.2 and turned out to be a rep treadmill, a raid was finished and in the game but gated until something like 6.1. 6.1 was a massive disappointment of twitter integration, a selfie-camera and some garrison/follower changes, and had the bad luck to be released during the same period as one of FF14's most anticipated patches ever so players could really see the comparison. A few weeks back Blizzard admitted it shouldn't have been called a major content patch, and yet the latest interview they're saying it was. Now players are being told the most expensive expansion yet is over. Pierson fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 14:08
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Pierson posted:[*]Everything except maybe the AH was in the garrison so there was never a reason to go to the main cities where in every other expansion the playerbase actually gathered together. You actually can get an auction house if you have the trading post at level 2, but it's a long, involved quest to get all the parts that involve getting drops from literally everywhere in draenor, including raids, dungeons, garrison invasions, and the ever beloved Ashran. And then they're random zone drops that can come from any monster in the zones; you needed about twenty drops to make the drat thing. http://www.wowhead.com/guides/garrisons/buildings/guide-to-the-garrison-trading-post#auction-house
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Jul 6, 2015 14:36
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http://imgur.com/a/qDjLb
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Jul 6, 2015 16:49
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"I'm told this is what human females like, but have never actually been within 50 feet of one myself." Lord all those screenshots are ugly.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:04
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Man girls are bad at video games amirite lol
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Jul 6, 2015 17:07
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WOD was AWESOME...For the first ~maybe~ month. I resubbed toward the middle/end of mists to putz around with some buddies, shoot nerds, loot dragon nipples, and generally explore the world after skipping Mists and most of cata. MOP was, surprisingly, really fun. The raiding was good, the pvp was fun with the new BGs and poo poo, and as much as I thought the aesthetic and atmosphere was dumb/not-Warcraft-y, it was a good time. And I feel that if Mists had the WOD skin, literally the exact same game but in Draenor, it would have been considered a really really good expansion. Fast-forward to WOD release, we're stoked etc. Leveling is loving awesome. Leveling 90-100 in Draenor is, objectively, loving terrific. Lag day 1 on Bleeding Hollow sucked but dammit the leveling was perfectly paced and really fun. The heroics were good, Highmaul was fun if a bit bland. Theeeeeeeeennn we played for more than, I dunno, 3 weeks or so. Garrisons became extraordinarily tedious and, really, the only content. Not having badges/points meant that farming heroics was a complete waste of time unless you wanted the Inn quests (which were poo poo). The ONE raid WOD launched with had 7 bosses, and we had to wait months to get the next one that had a higher ilevel, making highmaul totally obsolete. This was played off as some weird hybrid between one and two tiers, highmaul didn't have tier gear but lasted forever, combined with the lower ilevel meant functionally it was its own tier, yet it was SEVEN loving BOSSES. But, it was fun. What got me to unsub was the total and utter lack of content other than pokemon and raiding. It turned into log in for 10 minutes, push wizard chore buttons, log out until raid time. Guild was full when raiding, total barren deadzone when not because there was NOTHING TO DO. Rep was a literal grindfest, you just killed mobs, apexis dailies were useless because apexis rewards were loving terrible, treasures were cool but you got them all and then congrats, and to top it all off PVP was godawful. No new BGs, no new Arenas, Ashran was a joke and you couldn't even get in it if you tried. Basically, WOD was TERRIFIC for the first bit, I loved it and had a great time. The second you completed what little content was added, turns out there was absolutely nothing new to do. I unsubbed due to complete lack of content, and I'm nowhere near a hardcore player.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:40
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'Girls like fashion and DDR and collecting dumb poo poo, right? Well there you go, coerce your girlfriend with this condescending poo poo.' Also yeah, my wife and I prepurchased WoD pretty much for the free level 90 boost, and the only reason she plays the game is because she roleplays. If I could convince her to just move to a MUD or MUSH or even just IRC I could save us 15 bucks a month.  I've cancelled my sub multiple times through WoD, but there really isn't a lot to do in the drat game if you aren't chasing achievements or other little things.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:48
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Seriously it's loving shocking how Blizzard had the ability to bring tons of players back to the game with the lore/setup/leveling of WOD and just copy-pasting MOP quality and mechanics and content, and they hosed it up.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:51
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they'd already spent the furry appeal in mists also jfc these EQ1 stories are making my sock drawer overflow with poop just from reading them
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Jul 6, 2015 18:03
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