The Gamergate: Girls have cooties and they are infecting Mega Man!

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Hadaka Apron: Feb 12, 2015

Tezzor posted:

I urge everyone to actually read the Leigh Alexander article in its entirety because it cuts to the bone of "gamers" so deep and so clean they're still weeping about it a year later

It also cut Gamasutra's advertising revenue to the bone.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 16:52

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# ? May 28, 2024 05:29

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Hadaka Apron posted:

It also cut Gamasutra's advertising revenue to the bone.

Congrats? GG censored Gamasutra? Good job, I guess?

# ? Jul 6, 2015 16:54

Archer666: Dec 27, 2008

Useful Distraction posted:

No it's not.

No?

http://spjairplay.com/lets-do-it/

http://spjairplay.com/news/

Can you tell me why it isn't? Besides the fact that AGG folks really don't want it to be.

Tezzor posted:

Can we stop saying "anti Gamer Gate". We don't say "anti anti War on Christmas" or "anti Sharia America" we simply recognize opposition as denying the paranoid whining of delusional reactionaries

Which makes it even more embarrassing that no one outside of Gamer Gate is willing to show up to debate these "delusional reactionaries."

# ? Jul 6, 2015 16:55

BexGu: Jan 9, 2004; This fucking day....

quote:

Who here hasn�t slept with a PR person or game developer? #AMIRITE
� William O�Neal, editor-in-chief, TechRadar.com

quote:

I would prefer not to be associated with this. It feels wrong to me. I think it feels very off to reach across the fence from journalist to subject in this way. I prefer professional distance, especially given the accusations being levied at us from outside.
� Mike Futter, Game Informer

# ? Jul 6, 2015 16:57

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

BexGu posted:

Maybe, maybe not. Milo is going to hammer in just how close game journalist (indie and mainstream) are with the people they are suppose to report on instead of a casual friendship between reporter and subject matter that tends to occur. Expect to see alot of the same quotes listed here: http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/09/18/the-emails-that-prove-video-games-journalism-must-be-reformed/

Almost for certain that this line is going to quoted at some point from the GameJournoPros email list along with others that wanted some professional distance from the whole Zoe Post thing.

Is this going to address the fact that this is a problem in all kinds of hobby journalism due to the outlets relying on the people they're writing about to hook them up with the stuff to write about or is it just going to be wailing about games, and what are the odds that anyone on the panel is going to actually give a poo poo about game reviews

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:00

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

INH5 posted:

Right, the SPJ is only one of the oldest and most respected journalist organizations in America. Why would anyone care what they have to say about an issue involving journalism?

I'm talking about the participants, not the moderators.

INH5 posted:

Which makes it even more embarrassing that no one outside of Gamer Gate is willing to show up to debate these "delusional reactionaries."

It's embarassing for the gamergaters who crave letgitimacy and approval from the mainstream, not any individual who is unwilling to expose themselves to more personal attacks.

BexGu posted:

Maybe, maybe not. Milo is going to hammer in just how close game journalist (indie and mainstream) are with the people they are suppose to report on instead of a casual friendship between reporter and subject matter that tends to occur. Expect to see alot of the same quotes listed here: http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/09/18/the-emails-that-prove-video-games-journalism-must-be-reformed/

Almost for certain that this line is going to quoted at some point from the GameJournoPros email list along with others that wanted some professional distance from the whole Zoe Post thing.

Indie game journalism is a tiny field. They're mad that they can't find an innocent person in jail. It's so evidently a strange claim that I don't understand how some people can't recognize it as a waste.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:00

Tezzor: Jul 29, 2013; Can't post for 3 years!

Hadaka Apron posted:

It also cut Gamasutra's advertising revenue to the bone.

Thus essentially proving the point

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:01

The Snark: May 19, 2008; by Cowcaster

The Snark posted:

No?

http://spjairplay.com/lets-do-it/

http://spjairplay.com/news/

Can you tell me why it isn't? Besides the fact that AGG folks really don't want it to be.

No.

Cause the actual Society of Professional Journalists has no involvement in this, it's just a single member of their organization doing this. In fact, the SPJ has denied him the use of their national logo on his personal "spjairplay" website.

This is no more "an SPJ thing" than a random World Health Organization member setting up a private twitter meetup and labeling it a "WHO thing."

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:04

Tezzor: Jul 29, 2013; Can't post for 3 years!

INH5 posted:

Right, the SPJ is only one of the oldest and most respected journalist organizations in America. Why would anyone care what they have to say about an issue involving journalism?

Which makes it even more embarrassing that no one outside of Gamer Gate is willing to show up to debate these "delusional reactionaries."

With rare exceptions, nobody is willing to show up to debate creationists either. Is this evidence of their factual basis? They certainly claim so. Or is it evidence that they are shitheads whose debate techniques revolve solely around lies, slander and whining? Who can say

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:05

Evrart Claire: Jan 11, 2008

Neo Rasa posted:

Plus usually the best material to make people become AGG comes from just observing the GG echochamber, so tI don't think any AGG presence is really needed.

Yeah, basically. I've never remotely given a poo poo about any of the "AGG" people. I'm "anti-Gamergate" solely based on stuff I've seen from gamergate and that it's largely a lot of people being willfully blind to sexism/racism in popular culture or actively attempting to discredit feminist causes. This isn't a two sides thing where thinking GG is full of poo poo means I have to buddy up with Wu/Anita/whoever. The enemy of my enemy isn't necessarily my friend.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:07

Fluo: May 25, 2007

Black Baby Goku posted:

The era of The Victim is the saddest moment in leftist politics.

I'd say more so the era of the economically wealthy hijacking leftist politics and ignoring half of leftist politics. But then again there has always been leftist infighting.

Those drat Trots and Stalinists!

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:10

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

The Snark posted:

Personal attacks... from whom? Do the Gamergaters recieve no attacks? I can't say I've seen that to be true in watching all this. Certainly not when so many seem to believe there are no bad tactics, only bad targets.

Gamergate is so ridden with personal attacks against their opponents that it appears a fair amount of gamergater's time is spent trying to worry out 'trolls' and 'false flags'.

This is an occasion where saying "both sides do it!" is an obvious deflection, as far as I'm aware no gamergaters have been driven from their homes with threats of sexual assault and violence.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:10

Fluo: May 25, 2007

Fluo posted:

Did you get upset when people boycotted South African and Israeli products in the 1980s?

That was a sarcastic post calling back the opinions of some probated posters who are still lurking this thread, who felt that wal-mart refusing to sell a game is censorship.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:13

Fluo: May 25, 2007

Fluo posted:

This gamergate guy sounds like a Batman villain, do you have a link to his blog or tumblr?

Drunkposting is always a bad idea, though I've never heard of it leading to shitheaded individualism before.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:15

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Fluo posted:

This gamergate guy sounds like a Batman villain, do you have a link to his blog or tumblr?

If you type "gamergate" into google, you should find a decent amount of substantiation. The most high profile aspects of gamergate in the mainstream media are how female critics, game developers, and journalists were driven from their home by threats of sexual assault and violence. I doubt that all of these articles are based in dishonest or biased reporting.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:16

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

INH5 posted:

Which makes it even more embarrassing that no one outside of Gamer Gate is willing to show up to debate these "delusional reactionaries."

"Ha, no one will debase themselves by having intellectual toddlers scream at them! How utterly embarrassing for those people not to show up!"

I mean do you even read what you write or can you not see from up your own rear end in a top hat?

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:16

Fluo: May 25, 2007

Literally The Worst posted:

Is this going to address the fact that this is a problem in all kinds of hobby journalism due to the outlets relying on the people they're writing about to hook them up with the stuff to write about or is it just going to be wailing about games, and what are the odds that anyone on the panel is going to actually give a poo poo about game reviews

Unless the neutral moderators bring that fact up, then no, it isn't going to come up. That's what happens when you leave your political opponents completely unopposed on the debate floor.

And this really shouldn't be that hard. I can just off the top of my head think of a dozen embarrassing questions that someone could ask Milo solely regarding his conduct during GG.

Useful Distraction posted:

No.

Cause the actual Society of Professional Journalists has no involvement in this, it's just a single member of their organization doing this. In fact, the SPJ has denied him the use of their national logo on his personal "spjairplay" website.

This is no more "an SPJ thing" than a random World Health Organization member setting up a private twitter meetup and labeling it a "WHO thing."

Koretsky isn't a random SPJ person, he's the director of SPJ's Region 3, which covers Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina. That's a pretty big deal.

Tezzor posted:

With rare exceptions, nobody is willing to show up to debate creationists either. Is this evidence of their factual basis? They certainly claim so. Or is it evidence that they are shitheads whose debate techniques revolve solely around lies, slander and whining? Who can say

Actually, plenty of people do show up to debates with creationists. One prominent recent example is Bill Nye.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:19

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

INH5 posted:

Actually, plenty of people do show up to debates with creationists. One prominent recent example is Bill Nye.

Yo, real quick, do me a solid and tell me the first three words in Tezzor's post that you are responding to with this.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:21

Quote-Unquote: Oct 22, 2002

I like how 'plenty' means 'one guy a year ago'.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:22

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Fluo posted:

Well you're confusing voting with your wallet and a multinational retail corporation which makes billions.

One is a collective group of people going out their way to not buy something from a multinational retail corporation, the other is a multinational retail corporation refusing to supply a product.

It confuses me as a leftist why a lot of people like you seem so overtly Conservative in all but name. Someone earlier nailed it when talking about N-17 rated movies.

Now you're going to go "but why doesn't wal mart sell snuff films" and then we're back to the ad homs and all good faith debating is out the window again.

I said my post was sarcastic. That indicates I was not speaking 100% sincerely, for the purposes of humor. I'm not sure what you're going for here. I'm only responding as a courtesy to tell you that I am confused by your post and will ignore it.

INH5 posted:

Vocal people opposed to GG have spent the last 5/6 of a year endlessly saying that the reason GG can't win is that it doesn't have legitimacy and approval from the mainstream.

I'm not one of those people. I dont' think gg can win because they do not have a legitimate argument. An absurd stance doesn't get less absurd through repetition.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:22

Ogmius815: Aug 25, 2005; centrism is a hell of a drug

It was also very controversial that Bill Nye did that and a lot of people didn't think he should have. In fact he probably shouldn't have.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:23

Fluo: May 25, 2007

Effectronica posted:

Drunkposting is always a bad idea, though I've never heard of it leading to shitheaded individualism before.

You should stop posting then. :confused:

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:23

Useful Distraction: Jan 11, 2006; not a pyramid scheme

INH5 posted:

Koretsky isn't a random SPJ person, he's the director of SPJ's Region 3, which covers Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina. That's a pretty big deal.

...so?

That still doesn't make this "an SPJ thing," he's not acting with the blessing of the actual organization. It's just a guy privately organizing a meetup for gamergaters.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:23

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

Useful Distraction posted:

...so?

That still doesn't make this "an SPJ thing," he's not acting with the blessing of the actual organization. It's just a guy privately organizing a meetup for gamergaters.

Didn't you read? He is A Pretty Big Deal^{^TM}, and he carries the full weight of the SPJ behind his actions. I mean sure, the SPJ itself hasn't actually endorsed it, but if they were against it why aren't they controlling their employee's every thought and action? You ever think of that, smart guy?

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:26

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

The Snark posted:

Thank you, listening to Leigh presently.

I am hearing a great deal of things I agree with that don't sync up well with her work and and general manner except for the whinge about people telling them that maybe their incendiary approach is ineffective. Tone policing. Still has a fixation on megaphones.

Not seeing where they are shown to be anything but a keyboard warrior, just one that got in front of a microphone.

I wonder if their Twitter avatar is still her in Imperator Furiosa cosplay.

The entire point is that they aren't sitting on their rear end and simply typing words on the computer. They are actually going out there and forming panels and doing stuff.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:26

Fluo: May 25, 2007

Ogmius815 posted:

It was also very controversial that Bill Nye did that and a lot of people didn't think he should have. In fact he probably shouldn't have.

Yeah... creationists have a very d&d style of debating. Throw as much poo poo out there that it'd take a mass amount of effort to put out. So once you put out and debunked one bonfire there is another 10 freshly lit A.K.A Gish Gallop.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:27

Pulp Can Move: Oct 4, 2012

Has anyone played any good video games lately? Here is a list of my favorite games (in no particular order):

Pac-Man and Lady Pac-Man (same game?).
Anything with Donkey Kong in it. Anything. Those chimps crack me up.
Super Mario Bros. 1 and 3 (Not 2! It was too hard, and my cousin had to ride his bike 15 miles to beat the flying masks for me because I was scared of them. When I got older I wasn't scared of the masks anymore, but I had a Super Nintendo by then and had moved on to the big boy Mario games such as Yoshi's Island. Some people might view Yoshi's Island, with its crayon-scrawled artwork, as a children's game. They're wrong, unless they mean children of all ages. It stripped away all pretense and irony, and left you only with the simple joy of beaning Shy Guys with a variety of colored eggs. That's something that even 12-year-old me could appreciate back then, just as 32-year-old me does now.)

Now it's your turn: post some of your favorite games!

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:28

Rush Limbo: Sep 5, 2005; its with a full house

Hadaka Apron posted:

But the pro-GG people aren't moderating Airplay.

It doesn't really matter.

The entire thing about this whole poo poo storm is the belief that there's some external force responsible for the ills afflicting it, be it SJWs, unethical journalism or whatever which is a convenient scapegoat that allows for creating the idealised enemy responsible for everything. The truth of the matter is that there isn't any. It is not some evil force that is destroying it, it's that it's rotten to the core. There is no mythical bogeyman that is responsible for why people feel the way they do, the reason is themselves and the monster they created and gave life to.

Appealing to some external force, be it the moderate, or in the recent case the SPJ allows people to believe that the object they respect so much actually does care and we just need some people to see our way of thinking to make it all better.

There is no magical panacea that will make the bad feelings go away, because people are not even willing to acknowledge there is a problem, let alone take the necessary steps to fix it.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:28

Hadaka Apron: Feb 12, 2015

quote:

Q: After being displayed on Randi Harper�s twitter did you receive any difference in negative attention or more specific threats?

Csefalvay: I actually started receiving unpleasant emails around the time I put out my first analysis which was earlier than my first interaction with Harper. They weren�t exactly great but they were in the realm of the bearable; the classic you should die or go set yourself on fire etc. , which happens to be a favorite phrase of Ms. Harper�s. Now, obviously once she got involved, that�s when it got particularly vile. That is when it got into the realm of very graphic and very shockingly violent threats. Now I must add at this point that I�ve seen my fair share of death threats before. When you grow up in eastern Europe and grow up in a very political household you end up getting bullets through the mail and if you�re doing well enough could get shot at. So you get used to these things, I don�t consider most of these things I�ve received as actual death threats.

Q: So you�re saying you�ve dealt with death threats in your home life, but the ones you received during this ordeal were different?

Csefalvay: What we need to be clear about here is credible death threats in my views means to a method of opportunity. A lot of these people might have the motive; very few would have probably had the means to actually get to me. Even if they had the actual opportunity to actually be able to pull it off so when some random persons tweets or emails me from the safety of his or her mother�s basement, or where ever these people live, that they are going to decapitate me and all that I am not overly perturbed. I�d say the worst that I�ve seen in and around Gamergate, and I�ve noticed this from both sides actually, is interpreting everything as a threat and almost relishing in the role of a victim. Almost being proud that someone found you worthy of threatening; that goes to a point of absurdity.

I�ve seen real death threats from people who mean it in the past. None of this, I believe, were real to that extent; however, you can�t discount them. That is one of the curses of loving another person. One of the worst things about loving another person very very deeply is that you�re no longer free to do the crazy things that you would otherwise heartily pull off on your own. While I would not have been very concerned about my own safety ,and probably would haven�t of given a crap about any of this if it had been just me, the fact that some of them began to include my wife made me very worried.

Q: How would you characterize the behavior change from the emails you received before speaking with Harper and after?

Csefalvay: There were definitely less of the �I�m emotional and I�m having an outburst and I don�t know how to do it� kind of death threats and more � I am a cold, calculated, and absolutely messed up psycho� sort of death threat. Certainly some of them were disturbing in the sense of what language was used and there was almost this gratification in the mere contemplation of violence to another person. I have a background in law, I practiced mental health and criminal. I worked quite a bit with mentally ill detainees and I was quite familiar with the difference between the mad and the bad. One of the main dividers I�ve found between those who are slightly unstable and those who are really a different dimension of evil is the orgy of violence. That complete and over the top repetition flow of violence that they describe in excruciating detail. And of course as I said, the curse of loving another person is seeing these written down about that other person.

Q: What was your reaction when you saw these emails with threats to your wife?

Csefalvay: I�m a lot less willing to risk my wife�s safety than I am to risk my own. Being attacked on social media is a very strange double bind. What can you do? You can ignore it at which point you save a little bit of your sanity but it will still gnaw at you by the way�

http://s2b20blog.mukyou.com/the-hidden-face-of-hypocrisy-randi-harper-part-3/

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:29

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Hadaka Apron posted:

Chris von Csefalvay argued that Gamergate wasn't a hate movement and got a lot of harassment.

I'm going to repeat this part of the post you quoted just in case you did not read it the first time.

quote:

This is an occasion where saying "both sides do it!" is an obvious deflection, as far as I'm aware no gamergaters have been driven from their homes with threats of sexual assault and violence.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:30

Fluo: May 25, 2007

INH5 posted:

Unless the neutral moderators bring that fact up, then no, it isn't going to come up. That's what happens when you leave your political opponents completely unopposed on the debate floor.

Funny I was about to say it's what happens when you're only paying lipservice to an issue because you don't actually care about the issue at large, you care about it as a smokescreen for your other bullshit.

# ? Jul 6, 2015 17:32

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# ? May 28, 2024 05:29

Hadaka Apron: Feb 12, 2015