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BexGu posted:Nah.... neither side is smelling like roses here. People have been threatened/received death threats before for being Pro-GG. Your being disingenuous. Most of the pro GG people laughed it off as a ideal threat and just reported it to the authorizes. Mike Cernovich did leave his home out of threat of (police) violence.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:33
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Hadaka Apron posted:So it doesn't count because he chose not to leave his home? It indicates that he does not feel the weight or volume of threats necessitated such a drastic move. This is not to downplay threats on social media, but there does appear to be a difference in the scale and persistency of such attacks when leveled against individuals targeted by gamergate as a whole.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:34
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Hadaka Apron posted:So it doesn't count because he chose not to leave his home? Yes, when arguing that someone received treatment equal to someone else who had to leave their home, that is a thing you should prove
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Jul 6, 2015 17:34
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It will forever work both ways. It's one reason the us vs them mindset is actually just going to cause this to go on and deflecting the both sides do it thing is just another reason why this won't finish for quite some time. quote:This is an occasion where saying "both sides do it!" is an obvious deflection, as far as I'm aware no aggs have been almost killed in their homes with SWATTING.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:35
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Fluo posted:Yeah... creationists have a very d&d style of debating. Throw as much poo poo out there that it'd take a mass amount of effort to put out. So once you put out and debunked one bonfire there is another 10 freshly lit A.K.A Gish Gallop. I haven't seen this happen here. Can you point to it, or is this just forums racism?
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Jul 6, 2015 17:35
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Effectronica posted:I haven't seen this happen here. Can you point to it, or is this just forums racism? Spend more time reading d&d and you'll pick it up in no time.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:36
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BexGu posted:Your being disingenuous. Most of the pro GG people laughed it off as a ideal threat and just reported it to the authorizes. Mike Cernovich did leave his home out of threat of (police) violence. Also, at least one GG person reported that he was instructed by the police to leave his home after receiving a doxxing + death threat email.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:36
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BexGu posted:Your being disingenuous. Most of the pro GG people laughed it off as a ideal threat and just reported it to the authorizes. Mike Cernovich did leave his home out of threat of (police) violence. I didn't know that a gamergater was threatened with swatting from an antigamergater, thanks. Fluo posted:Spend more time reading d&d and you'll pick it up in no time. So, you can't point it out.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:37
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Popular Thug Drink posted:So, you can't point it out. Do you remember the grover vs cefte Iraq War debate? Yeah go look it up in archives, that's the most well known one.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:39
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Effectronica posted:I haven't seen this happen here. Can you point to it, or is this just forums racism? Haven't seen it happen here or in a debate with Creationists?
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Jul 6, 2015 17:41
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Fluo posted:Do you remember the grover vs cefte Iraq War debate? Yeah go look it up in archives, that's the most well known one. I think that was just because grover was wrong on so many different points and cefte had the patience to point out each one and ask for clarification. If an individual is so grossly incorrect you can generate a tremendous rebuttal, much like (ironically) the position of gamergate itself.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:41
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Fluo posted:Do you remember the grover vs cefte Iraq War debate? Yeah go look it up in archives, that's the most well known one. That was... A looooong time ago, I'm gonna say if you can't provide a current example you're just BSing. Most d+d regulars are quite good at focusing on one point at a time, often to the point of excess.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:43
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Popular Thug Drink posted:I think that was just because grover was wrong on so many different points and cefte had the patience to point out each one and ask for clarification. If an individual is so grossly incorrect you can generate a tremendous rebuttal, much like (ironically) the position of gamergate itself. Another well known example is every Israel Palestine thread in d&d which ends up getting locked because both sides are so entrenched and throwing ad homs all over the place. It's another reason why dismissing "both sides do it" is on par with their sarcastic remarks about the "answer being in the middle". When the middle is pretty big. I'm fairly sure you'd agree between Polpot's Third World Maoism and Hitler's Nazism the answer is somewhere in the middle.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:44
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Congrats? GG censored Gamasutra? Good job, I guess? It's also dumb, because what happened was they took them down for a brief time, then put them back up. Then Intel actually donated money to further the cause of diversity as a gently caress you to all the people who bitched about that article.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:44
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TheQat posted:That was... A looooong time ago, I'm gonna say if you can't provide a current example you're just BSing. Go to the last page. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3682289&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
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Jul 6, 2015 17:45
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Literally The Worst posted:"Hi I'm a guy from Breitbart, the news network founded by a dude who faked a whole bunch of poo poo, and I'm here to talk about ethics" is the funniest goddamn thing to me The most hilarious thing is that he went to Breitbart after an attempt to launch his own media outlet. That outlet closed amidst a number of lawsuits being filed against the company for not paying its writers. In one such case, Milo sent an email to someone threatening to release embarrassing details and pictures unless this contributor to the outlet stopped demanding to be paid for the work that had been performed. So you can see why he's a perfect fit for Breitbart. Even before he got there, he established a background of unethical behavior.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:48
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Fluo posted:Go to the last page. You seen weirdly vehement about this point.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:49
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Fluo posted:Go to the last page. Pretty straightforward and non-poo poo-flinging posts, although evidently the prior pages were ruined by people responding to migf which isn't healthy in any circumstance
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Jul 6, 2015 17:49
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Fluo posted:Another well known example is every Israel Palestine thread in d&d which ends up getting locked because both sides are so entrenched and throwing ad homs all over the place. It's another reason why dismissing "both sides do it" is on par with their sarcastic remarks about the "answer being in the middle". When the middle is pretty big. I'm fairly sure you'd agree between Polpot's Third World Maoism and Hitler's Nazism the answer is somewhere in the middle. You don't know what argumenta ad hominem are, Pol Pot was not a Maoist Third-Worldist, ad hominem arguments are not examples of the Gish Gallop, and that's not why people make those remarks. So, frankly, you seem to be rather ignorant and stupid.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:49
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So this Airplay thing, what the gently caress does Christina Hoff's have to do with video games?
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Jul 6, 2015 17:49
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Effectronica posted:You don't know what argumenta ad hominem are, Pol Pot was not a Maoist Third-Worldist, ad hominem arguments are not examples of the Gish Gallop, and that's not why people make those remarks. So, frankly, you seem to be rather ignorant and stupid. I didn't say Gish Gallop was an ad hom, I said an ad hom by its self for example: slippery slope, guilt by association, anecdotal fallacy and such. Would it help if I listed all the many ad homs you could throw instead of saying ad hom?
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Jul 6, 2015 17:53
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Here's what I wonder, as someone who hasn't paid much attention to this whole thing: aren't the two sides completely arguing past each other? (While a minority of each side takes it way too far. I am not interested in this part as it should not detract from or be used against either side if they have real points.) It seems like the point of gg is (most generously) to change practices in gaming journalism, whereas "agg" want to have healthier depictions of women and minorities in games. These two aren't inherently mutually exclusive, so what on earth is the point? And why is this thread an endless recounting of the actions of individuals rather than a debate or discussion about ideas?
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Jul 6, 2015 17:55
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Fluo posted:I didn't say Gish Gallop was an ad hom, I said an ad hom by its self for example: slippery slope, guilt by association, anecdotal fallacy and such. The slippery slope is not an ad hominem argument. The anecdotal argument is not an ad hominem argument. You used the Gish Gallop as an example of D&D perfidy earlier, but now you're pretending that's not what you said. Fundamentally, you have a broken, insane approach to debating and discussing, one that is incapable of doing anything good. To make an actual ad hominem argument, you're an alcoholic of some sort, so I don't even have to read your posts to know that.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:57
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Who What Now posted:You seen weirdly vehement about this point. Ha ha yes this person is arguing his point too much and responding to the questions, he therefore must be wrong
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Jul 6, 2015 17:58
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Effectronica posted:The slippery slope is not an ad hominem argument. The anecdotal argument is not an ad hominem argument. If you're going to be splitting hairs like it's there's no tomorrow. Ad homs & logical fallacies. 
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Jul 6, 2015 18:00
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Chipp Zanuff posted:So this Airplay thing, what the gently caress does Christina Hoff's have to do with video games? Christina Hoff serves the same role for gamer gate as the black guy serves on Fox news
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Jul 6, 2015 18:00
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Popular Thug Drink posted:I didn't know that a gamergater was threatened with swatting from an antigamergater, thanks. Yeah, it got pretty bad around October of last year. Looked up some more and it turns out KingOfPol got a knife (with a note saying "Go Kill Yourself") in the mail: https://archive.is/tuV6Y along with emergency services being sent to his house as a false suicide claim: https://archive.is/uUdrM At least it was not a SWATing but still a exceptionally lovely thing to do/waste of emergency services time.
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Jul 6, 2015 18:00
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Fluo posted:If you're going to be splitting hairs like it's there's no tomorrow. Ad hominem is a logically fallacious argument. You simply can't formulate anything beyond a slimy fog of inarticulate gibberish, yet you demand strict adherence to whether something is fallacious or not. You seem like a real winner of a man.
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Jul 6, 2015 18:01
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TheQat posted:Here's what I wonder, as someone who hasn't paid much attention to this whole thing: aren't the two sides completely arguing past each other? From what I can tell, the fact that a lot of game journalists are pushing for more representation in games is at odds with the gamergaters. This didn't blow up out of nowhere. This has been bubbling for a while in the form of harassment at certain developers, harassment at people critiquing the industry, and harassment in general of women online in video games. Then the whole Zoe Quinn incident happened, and Leigh Alexander responds by writing a article about it saying that "Gamers are over" meaning that the industry is expanding to include other people and that the industry didn't need to pander to them anymore, and it kind of blew things up from there. It is the reason I can't reconcile with GamerGate. Because the very act of criticizing the industry for not being diverse enough is met with derision and accusations of attempting to censor a game.
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Jul 6, 2015 18:03
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TheQat posted:It seems like the point of gg is (most generously) to change practices in gaming journalism, whereas "agg" want to have healthier depictions of women and minorities in games. Gamergaters seem to think that in order to have healther depictions of women and minorities in games, the feminists plot to censor or otherwise regulate content in games, and they're accomplishing this through collusion with journalism outlets to put pressure on AAA studios, hence the 'ethics' smokescreen. They're not so much concerned with ethics so much as they are rooting out aggressive feminist influences in games journalism.
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Jul 6, 2015 18:04
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It occurs to me that SPJ Airplay might have had a much easier time finding willing Anti-GG panelists if not for the drat block bots.TheQat posted:Here's what I wonder, as someone who hasn't paid much attention to this whole thing: aren't the two sides completely arguing past each other? Welcome to politics in the age of social media and clickbait.
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Jul 6, 2015 18:05
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TheQat posted:Here's what I wonder, as someone who hasn't paid much attention to this whole thing: aren't the two sides completely arguing past each other? Gamer Gate is about resentment of "SJWs." This is their central, explicit and repeated motivation. The lack of ethics they are concerned with is the brazen attempt to get companies to have better depictions of minorities.
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Jul 6, 2015 18:05
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TheQat posted:It seems like the point of gg is (most generously) to change practices in gaming journalism, whereas "agg" want to have healthier depictions of women and minorities in games. The secret is that the practices GG wants changed aren't ethics-related; they just want less discussion and critique relating to social issues. This is why they go after non-journalists, and it's why they raise a stink whenever an editorial talks about race issues or sexism in games. Remember the fervor over Polygon's Bayonetta 2 review, and the calls for Nintendo to blacklist them over it? From an ethical perspective, that doesn't make a lot of sense; it's not unethical to talk about sexism in a review, but it would be unethical for a publisher to manipulate review content through punitive measures. It clicks into place when you realize GG isn't concerned about ethics at all, but curbing particular avenues of conversation in gaming.
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Jul 6, 2015 18:05
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TheQat posted:Here's what I wonder, as someone who hasn't paid much attention to this whole thing: aren't the two sides completely arguing past each other? Imagine two echo chambers on the side of a cliff. A/GG works the same way.
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Jul 6, 2015 18:06
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TheQat posted:Here's what I wonder, as someone who hasn't paid much attention to this whole thing: aren't the two sides completely arguing past each other? GamersGaters want to change practices in gaming journalism such as "pushing for healthier depictions of women & minorities in games".
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Jul 6, 2015 18:06
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Imagine two echo chambers on the side of a cliff. A/GG works the same way. Fallout 4 sounds good!
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Jul 6, 2015 18:07
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I've fallen out of touch, gamergate thread, what's the popular definition of an SJW these days? I need to know what sort of person I'm cursing for the terrible death of video gaming
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Jul 6, 2015 18:07
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INH5 posted:It occurs to me that SPJ Airplay might have had a much easier time finding willing Anti-GG panelists if not for the drat block bots. How so? Do you think people opposed to gamergate are unaware of this panel happening?
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Jul 6, 2015 18:08
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Control Volume posted:I've fallen out of touch, gamergate thread, what's the popular definition of an SJW these days?
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Jul 6, 2015 18:08
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Control Volume posted:I've fallen out of touch, gamergate thread, what's the popular definition of an SJW these days? "Politically correct"
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Jul 6, 2015 18:08
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