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RPGs should reward success and punish failure. In a world of quick and autosave and checkpoints this isn't as punishing as it used to be and killing people and doing things should have adverse consequences. Thats why I'm digging the witcher 3. Failure doesn't always mean geralts death, it can just mean other npcs die or resent you which closes doors or makes things harder down the road, as an RPG should be. Playing as a straight amoral womanizing contract killer isn't my first choice but it's actually okay because the game world immerses me in that role rather than making the game a medieval wish fulfillment simulator. Fallout 4 hopefully aspires to play to the strengths of using defined characters in a harsh world instead of bolting it on to appease whatever portion of the game playing population is too dumb to read through a dialog box.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:18
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One thing I hope Bethesda carries over from New Vegas is having the radio host not only talk about the player and only their actions if so. Also not being aggressively moralising would be cool too but thats not going to happen.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:25
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OwlFancier posted:Can my dog be in a gay relationship in this game? You played a gay dog in GTA V for a few minutes, sorry but they already filled the gay animal quota.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:35
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hemophilia posted:RPGs should reward success and punish failure. In a world of quick and autosave and checkpoints this isn't as punishing as it used to be and killing people and doing things should have adverse consequences. Thats why I'm digging the witcher 3. Failure doesn't always mean geralts death, it can just mean other npcs die or resent you which closes doors or makes things harder down the road, as an RPG should be. Playing as a straight amoral womanizing contract killer isn't my first choice but it's actually okay because the game world immerses me in that role rather than making the game a medieval wish fulfillment simulator. Fallout 4 hopefully aspires to play to the strengths of using defined characters in a harsh world instead of bolting it on to appease whatever portion of the game playing population is too dumb to read through a dialog box. I just want to play the game and see most of the stuff, so, no.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:57
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Cojawfee posted:I just want to play the game and see most of the stuff, so, no. You can do that anyway through a couple of playthroughs, difficulty settings to be fashioned so it's nearly impossible to gently caress up, and RPGs shouldn't be hobbled for your scenic OCD completionist collectathon, so in my opinion, yes. Riot Bimbo fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 14:15
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hemophilia posted:RPGs should reward success and punish failure. In a world of quick and autosave and checkpoints this isn't as punishing as it used to be and killing people and doing things should have adverse consequences. Thats why I'm digging the witcher 3. Failure doesn't always mean geralts death, it can just mean other npcs die or resent you which closes doors or makes things harder down the road, as an RPG should be. Playing as a straight amoral womanizing contract killer isn't my first choice but it's actually okay because the game world immerses me in that role rather than making the game a medieval wish fulfillment simulator. Fallout 4 hopefully aspires to play to the strengths of using defined characters in a harsh world instead of bolting it on to appease whatever portion of the game playing population is too dumb to read through a dialog box. No, they shouldn't, and quicksaves, autosaves, and offsite wikis which gather all possible information before I can possibly play through the game, are awesome.
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Jul 6, 2015 15:26
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hemophilia posted:You can do that anyway through a couple of playthroughs, difficulty settings to be fashioned so it's nearly impossible to gently caress up, and RPGs shouldn't be hobbled for your scenic OCD completionist collectathon, so in my opinion, yes. They are not hobbled. You can just not use quicksaves, and I'm going to play the way I want, as an OCD completionist collectathon, and you can play it the way you want to, and we can both enjoy.
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Jul 6, 2015 15:27
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I hope you can build a radio station in your base and then get Different hosts who have different playlists.
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Jul 6, 2015 15:30
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Hihohe posted:I hope you can build a radio station in your base and then get Different hosts who have different playlists. Unfortunately they're all genetic clones of three dog
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Jul 6, 2015 15:32
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hemophilia posted:You can do that anyway through a couple of playthroughs, difficulty settings to be fashioned so it's nearly impossible to gently caress up, and RPGs shouldn't be hobbled for your scenic OCD completionist collectathon, so in my opinion, yes. Or you can just assign quicksave to a button you'll never use and just never save your game. Look at that, you have the game you want and I already had the game I want. When you kill a guy and you see a big ol "Dicks in the Wind - FAILED" in the corner of the screen, you can rest assured knowing you can't go back on that. And I can rest assured I can just quick load and not kill that guy and not have my game ruined because you can't trust yourself not to constantly quick save.
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Jul 6, 2015 15:40
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"Games should punish you permanently for mistakes, it's the only way they can have verisimilitude" is an opinion that I don't agree with, but if it's one that you like, you can literally just not quicksave before making decisions, kind of like how if fast travel ruins a game for you, you can just not use the fast travel feature, but there are still people who feel that if the rest of the world is playing the game the "wrong" way, then it's somehow bad, and it won't be good until the game removes all the features that allows others to play the game differently from them.
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Jul 6, 2015 15:43
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I am going to rebuild my old house into the best fort, also give Cogsworth upgrades and a brohug for being there for me, keeping the kettle warm and giving me a place where the food is.  Also I hope "monster brew" is going to apply to guns and their mods, so i can make a rock-it launcher with a sniper scope or a baseball bat with a grenade taped to it. I would appreciate all your thoughts on this and not about games I have already played because we kind of covered that already. I know there's so much we don't know, but for people who are into town building, what excites you most about it? What kind of things would you want added or modded in? For me, I think scavenger-hunt for raw materials to build with is very cool and fun. Even if the town building doesn't involve creating your own military base (i hope it does, an armory and place to send my followers) it seems cool we can layout defendable positions, and sincerely hope it isn't limited to a predefined area where you must build (like Skyrim's Hearthfire, which was still fun). I want to be the guy who founded Rivet City or Megaton, building around whatever weird poo poo I find. I wanna be the mayor of Red Rocket Gas Town! The defense network and programing poo poo to blink also looks fun! I hope raiders don't just swarm a base, but try to act at least somewhat intelligently. It may be too much to ask that them launching missiles at your buildings actually do some kind of damage, and force you to suit up and "handle things" over the wire. Setting up blind corner sentry guns sounds hilarious, too. Holy poo poo we could build literal mazes and trap raiders in them.
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Jul 6, 2015 16:10
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Literally Kermit posted:Also I hope "monster brew" is going to apply to guns and their mods, so i can make a rock-it launcher with a sniper scope or a baseball bat with a grenade taped to it. Basically, steal the combo weapon system from Dead Rising, only modular.
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Jul 6, 2015 16:13
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Baseball bat with a sniper scope, makes it crit better.
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Jul 6, 2015 16:13
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I call it the Franklinator
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Jul 6, 2015 16:17
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^^^ This poster here knows what the gently caress is up.Lotish posted:Basically, steal the combo weapon system from Dead Rising, only modular. I also wish for the poison dart gun to return, only not quite as OP. Stealth weapons own! I wonder if the "reverse pickpocket a grenade" trick will return. If so, 
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Jul 6, 2015 16:21
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Literally Kermit posted:^^^ This poster here knows what the gently caress is up. It would be cool if there were some non lethal Stealth option. Maybe choke someone out from behind take thier clothes a la hitman and blend into the Smegma Crazies rabble.
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Jul 6, 2015 16:43
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Ya'll have completely misunderstood the point I was making, and that may be my fault, but quick saves and stuff are really good, modern features that should be in nearly all modern games. Okay? Cool. There should also, inside the game, be lots of consequences and if you opt to kill people, sometimes doors should close, and sometimes doors should open. Bethesda games are generally designed so this never happens. In skyrim and FO3 it's really hard to kill someone who locks you out of quests. If you mess up and you regret your action, you should absolutely have the means to reload and go back! But if you choose to keep going forward, that stuff is gone! You do not get to be king of Rubble City if you kill the Crater City delegate during the elections! Sorry! Reload or  ! That's what I want in Fallouts.Getting rid of save options would be terrible guys. I agree with that. Nobody should do that.
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Jul 6, 2015 16:47
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hemophilia posted:Ya'll have completely misunderstood the point I was making, and that may be my fault
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Jul 6, 2015 16:50
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At first, I was like but then after I got  
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Jul 6, 2015 16:52
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So Kotaku did an article about all the hate No Mutants Left Behind creates http://kotaku.com/the-relentless-champions-of-classic-fallout-1715984448 Which I think this has to be my favorite line in the article "his was captured by longtime user Alec, who posted this just after Fallout 3 was released in 2008. “Kids nowadays are developing new standards for what they think gaming should be all about,” he writes. “Even though we dislike the idea, Fallout 3 will be remembered by them. As a really awesome game. And there’s nothing we can do about it.”"
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Jul 6, 2015 18:22
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quote:Maybe you’re rolling your eyes at what seems like a bunch of grizzled men and women writing corrosive forum poetry about how PC gaming is ruined forever. Yup, pretty much
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Jul 6, 2015 18:37
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Literally Kermit posted:Also I hope "monster brew" is going to apply to guns and their mods, so i can make a rock-it launcher with a sniper scope or a baseball bat with a grenade taped to it. YES! I too hope that they will give us more freedom with the guns. But what i saw in the gameplay video just seemed to be very straighforward, (IE: the designs seemed limited to make sniper, shotgun, rifle etc versions of lasers, plasma and bullet weapons) I hope I'm wrong about that though. I loved the gun crafting aspect of Dead space 3, I made myself a minigun with a saw blade attachment and it kicked rear end. Fallout 4s setting has so much more potential for whacked out guns! Please dont gently caress this up bethesda...
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Jul 6, 2015 18:39
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I don't really get how you can spend ten years obsessing over games you hate, but then I enjoy all the Fallout games, Black Isle and Bethesda, so 
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Jul 6, 2015 18:41
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Can't you see Bethesda ruined all RPGs forever? 
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Jul 6, 2015 18:46
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KomradeX posted:So Kotaku did an article about all the hate No Mutants Left Behind creates http://kotaku.com/the-relentless-champions-of-classic-fallout-1715984448 They don't even mention New Vegas in that article.
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Jul 6, 2015 18:52
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frajaq posted:Can't you see Bethesda ruined all RPGs forever? Todd Howard specifically went to Japan and stomped on all of the cool JRPGs they were going to develop, and then bought all the cool American companies with money he got by making the Dark Brotherhood easier to join, so that he could murder people and take their pocket change.
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Jul 6, 2015 19:18
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They should make the Dark Brotherhood really hard to join in the next TES game just by virtue of trying to find the one NPC you can murder that won't be essential.
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Jul 6, 2015 19:26
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KomradeX posted:So Kotaku did an article about all the hate No Mutants Left Behind creates http://kotaku.com/the-relentless-champions-of-classic-fallout-1715984448 Anyone who does not base their entire exsistance around my favorite 20 year old game "Is part of the joke". I just beat fallout 3 and now it is time to play New Vegas again.
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Jul 6, 2015 19:36
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SunAndSpring posted:At first, I was like Yeah, but then Ron throws a ton of loving shade at you in the 'ending' narration for not being willing to 'sacrifice' yourself.
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Jul 6, 2015 20:16
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Magmarashi posted:Yeah, but then Ron throws a ton of loving shade at you in the 'ending' narration for not being willing to 'sacrifice' yourself. fine you big babies, you want to use the game's own internal logic to thwart our attempt at a compellingly linear narrative? we'll rewrite the ending so that everyone in the wasteland calls you a pussy for not dying pointlessly and even your robo-butler will disown you and women NPCs in the game will endlessly remark about how small your penis is. also give us $10 for the privilege of this experience
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Jul 6, 2015 20:36
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Grinning Goblin posted:They should make the Dark Brotherhood really hard to join in the next TES game just by virtue of trying to find the one NPC you can murder that won't be essential. I, for one, am eagerly looking forward to the invincible homeless.
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Jul 6, 2015 20:49
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Jul 6, 2015 21:42
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Well, when you are a god among men and can kill entire settlements with a .22 pistol or a skill check or two, you can get away with that. Man, new vegas' two levels per perk and less skill points in combination with the high skill requirements for those perks is putting a damper on my TTW experience. Certainly a lot less laid back than vanilla FO3.
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Jul 6, 2015 22:37
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Broose posted:Well, when you are a god among men and can kill entire settlements with a .22 pistol or a skill check or two, you can get away with that. Some kind of XP restriction is pretty necessary for TTW if you plan on actually playing through both games on one save file. I played without it and went for completion of the main quest and all DLC for 3 before moving on to the Mojave, and I was nearly at Fallout 3's maximum possible level after completing Broken Steel and Anchorage.
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Jul 6, 2015 22:49
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Oh yeah. I installed and turned on the optional file to slow xp gain for that very reason. I was level 22 before I started the zeta dlc cause I decided to get the bobbleheads out of the way first along with some early game quests in my Vanilla FO3. My gripe is that I am having a hard time getting to the requirements for the perks so I can take them when they become avilable, rather than being forced to take some garbage perk I don't want/need. Even with a level cap of 50 with TTW, it's still 5 less perks than vanilla FO3, so I gotta plan extensively with skill point allocation per level and it is a chore when I could just be shooting raiders and taking their loot. edit: that's what I miss from the F1 and F2. Being able to just save skillpoints and perk allocation for later.
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Jul 6, 2015 23:17
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frajaq posted:Can't you see Bethesda ruined all RPGs forever? Oh please, these so-called "RPGs" aren't really RPGs. I know this because the only RPG in existence is Fallout 1. The rest are all adventure games where you have combat and level up your stats.
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Jul 6, 2015 23:40
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I don't even care about the writing so much in FO3 and New Vegas as much as how hideous they look and how dull so much of the actual mechanics are. The shooting is bottom-barrel, melee is worse, the walk speed is so slow, and everything is so big and empty and npcs are floaty and stiff and dead looking. Walking from the fast-travel spot to the strip in NV, or having to walk around giant buildings with nothing interesting around like in Primm was such a chore. The engine just stunk and everything had to run on a PS3 with its wierd double 256mb ram thing. That's why I'm excited for FO4, they have the opportunity to improve on just about everything. Just for the sake of having a new console generation, bethesda games have the opportunity to be much better.
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Jul 6, 2015 23:50
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Mr Tastee posted:Oh please, these so-called "RPGs" aren't really RPGs. I know this because the only RPG in existence is Fallout 1. The rest are all adventure games where you have combat and level up your stats. The only true RPG is Law of the West on the Commodore 64.
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Jul 6, 2015 23:55
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The only good games are Gothic I and Gothic II and Gothic III - everything else is a mockery of the binary logic that enabled these virtual masterpieces...
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