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Andrew_1985 posted:I just hope in the new series we get some more girls battling instead of the eternal sausagefest. android 18 eliminates goku and becomes the main character of the series. it is retitled as dragon ball: robot mom
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Jul 7, 2015 10:58
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Andrew_1985 posted:I just hope in the new series we get some more girls battling instead of the eternal sausagefest. Maybe the girl Whis but other than that lol.
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Jul 7, 2015 11:03
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Moms are tough. 18 never screamed during childbirth. Sust stonefaced  In my theoretical reboot I'd give Violet a bigger role, keep blonde Lunch, then genderswap Zarbon, Recoome, Trunks and Goten.
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Jul 7, 2015 12:28
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I don't give a crap about the girls fighting at all.
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Jul 7, 2015 12:31
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tbp posted:I don't give a crap about the girls fighting at all. Some people like to see women be beaten up, I don't understand them. Especially when you consider how poorly people reacted to the Spopovich fight, it's not like DB fights are known for being gentle to the participants.
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Jul 7, 2015 12:39
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Some people like it when female characters are relevant and get to do things besides being moral support.
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Jul 7, 2015 12:54
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I would like to see Android 18 be cool again instead of being protected by Krillin in everything and being surgically attached to Marron. None of the other female characters are really fighters so it makes sense if they can't really hang. Having some new characters who are villains/heroes be female would be fine too.
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Jul 7, 2015 13:02
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Some people like it when female characters are relevant and get to do things besides being moral support. That's great but when people complain about Bulma who's been more Relevant than most of the fighters throughout the entire series who drat well kickstarted this whole crazy thing and has made her presence felt in every arc until the end... All because she doesn't throw a punch? Lots of characters are moral support in DB, even if they pretend otherwise they're almost always nothing more than moral support. Again, gonna go back to spopovich, that's hard to watch and unless you're a superbeing who has transcended all known forms of emotion it will always be hard to watch, like how hard it is to watch a child being beaten up. And in Dragon Ball, spoilers, combatants get beaten up. Gohan getting his loving neck broken by Recoome was not cool, it was just really uncomfortable. It works for Goten and Trunks because when they came around as kids, the tone was getting lighter. But It's never been easy to watch a child getitng beaten up and you know what? It's never been easy to watch a woman get beaten up. Take the Gohan scene when Cell is just crushing the life out of him and trying to make him give into his rage as he's screaming for help. That scene's already uncomfortable. If you are telling me we could change Gohan to Videl and watch it and go "Well this is absolutely no worse" You're a liar. Cause you care this much about it already. I'd love to see a return of the Budokai Tenkaichi just because the fights in it are not brutal, and it'd be a lovely setting for mixed gender battles. But it's like Lucha Underground now. When Ivalice or Sexy Starr are just doing lucha and everything is cartoony and acrobatic the mixed-gender fights are fun. When a dude just straight up loving clocks them in the jaw like he's done to 100 other male wrestlers you cringe. And that's normal, because you shouldn't be comfortable with it. Aurain posted:I would like to see Android 18 be cool again instead of being protected by Krillin in everything and being surgically attached to Marron. I too would like 18 to fight, she was awesome.
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Jul 7, 2015 13:08
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I would like to see 18 have a decent part of the new series along with Piccolo, Tien and Krillen.
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Jul 7, 2015 13:10
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bowmore posted:Tien and Krillen. HA! Lets not start passing around drugs.
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Jul 7, 2015 13:11
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Krillin has all the qualities Goku does, only he's smarter and not gifted with alien strength. He's the best human around for sure.
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Jul 7, 2015 13:32
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Well sure, but the thing is those scenes are designed to be hella disturbing. I'm not gonna deny that the victim being a woman or a small child doesn't factor in it, but a large part of it is seeing someone defenseless get utterly brutalised. Compare Gohan versus Cell with Goku versus King Piccolo (Goku technically was like 16 at that point but that's not something you're consciously aware of when he looks and reads like a nine year old child). It's been forever since I saw the King Piccolo fight, but I don't remember it being as disturbing even as Goku loses the use of two legs and an arm simply because Goku never stops putting up a fight instead of just lying there taking the abuse. On the flipside we got 18, as you mentioned. We're not gonna have a strong "oh no a woman got hit bad" reaction when she gets decked by Vegeta when she just gets up immediately and breaks his arm in retaliation. There's a qualitative difference between two people having a fight and one side brutalising another, defenseless one. There's also the fact that DBZ's violence generally got progressively more gritty and realistic (as realistic as people bench-pressing planets can be, anyway) compared to DB's early where people's eyes and tongues popped out like they're in a Ren And Stimpy cartoon. If Battle of Gods and the first episode of Super are any indication they might emphasise DB's goofy side more than its gritty one. Freeza blowing up a planet is this disastrous and evil act whereas Beerus blowing up half a planet because the food there was a bit too greasy was almost silly. On that note, if Master Roshi can suddenly fight Freeza goons by bulking up what's stopping Chi-Chi from slapping some space conqueror with angry tiger mom rage? Of course all that is meaningless because let's be real here, Toriyama simply prefers writing dudes punching each other so that's what his plot outline for DBS will be. I just hope stuff like farmer Goku and family man Vegeta doesn't completely fall to the wayside once the fighting actually starts because I want to watch an anime about the daily lives of super beings that can destroy planets by sneezing, unironically. Edit: Also more Saiyaman action. You can even have Videl action there since she's way above common criminals anyway.
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Jul 7, 2015 15:00
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Some people like it when female characters are relevant and get to do things besides being moral support. Then you should not be watching DBZ because that's all they're there for.
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Jul 7, 2015 15:08
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Beef Chief posted:Then you should not be watching DBZ because that's all they're there for. It could be different in Super.
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Jul 7, 2015 15:23
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a cartoon duck posted:Well sure, but the thing is those scenes are designed to be hella disturbing. I'm not gonna deny that the victim being a woman or a small child doesn't factor in it, but a large part of it is seeing someone defenseless get utterly brutalised. Compare Gohan versus Cell with Goku versus King Piccolo (Goku technically was like 16 at that point but that's not something you're consciously aware of when he looks and reads like a nine year old child). It's been forever since I saw the King Piccolo fight, but I don't remember it being as disturbing even as Goku loses the use of two legs and an arm simply because Goku never stops putting up a fight instead of just lying there taking the abuse. On the flipside we got 18, as you mentioned. We're not gonna have a strong "oh no a woman got hit bad" reaction when she gets decked by Vegeta when she just gets up immediately and breaks his arm in retaliation. There's a qualitative difference between two people having a fight and one side brutalising another, defenseless one. Well yes you helped put into words what I was thinking but not saying, I'm fine with these fights when its goofy and light hearted. Because it's like playing a fighting game like street fighter. It doesn't matter that everyones kicking the poo poo out of each other because it's cartoon in nature. In short the more the tone gets towards DB from DBZ, the more okay with it I would be with seeing. But the further away it gets the less I want to see it because I'll never be comfortable with it, similar to the LU example, I know it's fake, but I still cringe because I just don't like it. I mean reverse the 18 scenario you brought up. 18 Decks this dude who's been toying with her all fight and then he breaks her arm, then stands over her, smiles and breaks her other arm. I mean you can't tell me you'd not think of it as different at all. And that scene isn't a particularly 'Brutal' scene like the ones listed. Just reversing the roles of the combatants.
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Jul 7, 2015 15:30
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Well of course it's be different, it'd be different of it was anyone but Vegeta. Part of the reason everyone loves that fight is Vegeta's a prick and he gets totally taken apart.
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Jul 7, 2015 15:33
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Onmi posted:I mean reverse the 18 scenario you brought up. 18 Decks this dude who's been toying with her all fight and then he breaks her arm, then stands over her, smiles and breaks her other arm. I mean you can't tell me you'd not think of it as different at all. And that scene isn't a particularly 'Brutal' scene like the ones listed. Just reversing the roles of the combatants. Fantastic example, because to me, If Vegeta was a she for that bit, she would still have the history and the seasons of smug superiority, arrogance, "PRINCESS OF ALL SAYAINS!" and "IM A SUPER SAYAIN!" behind her. The beatdown is very much long overdue by that point, as her overwhelming smugness is due to come crashing down. Characters are more then just one scene's worth of context. Gender flip Spopovich vs Videl, It is still horrifying. We have come to know Videl by this point. Seeing him clearly able to win yet unable to beat this brick wall of a woman, who slowly starts toying and beating him within an inch of his life is going to be unpleasant. Watching her choke him is still going to make you squirm. Suffering is not a contest to be measured. I do understand where your coming from however, the devil is in the details after all and we all find different things to be uncomfortable. It reminds me of how people lost their poo poo over the wolf being killed in Game of Thrones vs all the people who were being brutalized in different ways. I find human suffering in a make believe world to be much worse then a beloved wolf being killed. Some people disagree with that. For all its punchmans, Dragon Ball & Z does a job of showing that, when the gloves come off and it stops being a sport, "Fighting sucks and is costly, don't do it unless someone else is going to get hurt." without beating the viewer over the head with it. How it shows that differs from season to season, but its there. Who's in the line of fire differs, but its always clear. "Fighting with intent to kill sucks, don't do that. But hey if you want to have goofy wrestling contests with laser beams, thats 100% OK." Changing tracks, If 18 wants to be a mum, I cant really have a problem with that. Neither her nor 17 really showed that they wanted to be fighters, they were just a pair of kids kidnapped by some crazy old man and turned into tools of his revenge. If she just fights on the side because its good money and doesn't want it to be her life, that seems reasonable. On the other hand if she goes full "You know what? I'm actually good at fighting. So i'm coming with.", that would also be reasonable. Videl meanwhile does feel out of place. What happened to make her give up on the dream of fighting crime?  Maybe it'll come up in Super. Maybe Gohan's doing his whole study to make everyone stronger thing for her.
Thyrork fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 16:17
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Thyrork posted:Changing tracks, If 18 wants to be a mum, I cant really have a problem with that. Neither her nor 17 really showed that they wanted to be fighters, they were just a pair of kids kidnapped by some crazy old man and turned into tools of his revenge. If she just fights on the side because its good money and doesn't want it to be her life, that seems reasonable. On the other hand if she goes full "You know what? I'm actually good at fighting. So i'm coming with.", that would also be reasonable. She passed it all on to Pan, who beat the poo poo out of people who accused Hercule of being a Phoney. because before GT got its hands on her Pan was amazing
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Jul 7, 2015 16:20
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Onmi posted:She passed it all on to Pan, who beat the poo poo out of people who accused Hercule of being a Phoney. because before GT got its hands on her Pan was amazing ... I've completely forgotten about that!  When does it happen?Also I hope my points that "Characters are more than the immediate context." and "Uncomfortable Scene's are uncomfortable. (but certain details heighten it for some!)" was clear. That post took loving forever to hammer out. 
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Jul 7, 2015 16:24
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Thyrork posted:... I've completely forgotten about that! It was all very clear, I didn't feel the need to respond to it since it seemed pretty open and shut. And it's in Toriyama's timeline for Dragon Ball: Online. Age 794 Mr. Satan's granddaughter Pan becomes a martial arts instructor: with customer claims that Mr. Satan's Telecommunicated Satan-style Martial Arts Course is worthless rapidly spreading, disgruntled costumers flood Satan House, prompting Pan to subdue them. The event becomes a big scandal and the Telecommunicated Satan-style Martial Arts Course is then rebranded as the Pan Fighting Network, with Pan as the instructor. Afterwards, Pan asks Bulma to help her develop a system for people to battle each other across long distances so that she could create a Telecommunicated Martial Arts Dojo. From this point on, the sports-like fighting course became very popular, especially among young people. Age 796 Mr. Satan's film "Satan Legend" is released. Those influenced by the film began studying how to control their ki from Pan, forming the origin of the present Martial Artist class. Age 801 Goku goes missing: realizing his death is imminent and wanting to settle their rivalry, Goku leaves the Earth with Vegeta for a final battle. Years later, a supernova explosion is detected; it is assumed to be from Goku and Vegeta's battle. Age 804 Gohan begins research for his book Groundbreaking Science. This event leads to the creation of Trunks and Goten's Kikoukenjutsu Sword School in the following year, Age 805, and Krillin and Tien's revived Turtle and Crane schools in Age 821. As a result, by Age 1000, many Earthlings have taken up advance martial arts and understand ki control.
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Jul 7, 2015 17:04
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 I love it. I'd be totally down for an entirely new show set post age 1000.Also Goku and Vegeta dying by settling their rivalry instead of old age is the most appropriate thing.
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Jul 7, 2015 17:23
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Thyrork posted:
Yeah but it makes no sense since they can just do it forever in the afterlife.
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Jul 7, 2015 19:41
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For fun sometimes I imagine Dragonball if Goku were a girl instead. There's virtually no difference. Then I realize I'm imagining Dragonball with Arale as the main character.
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Jul 7, 2015 19:54
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Xibanya posted:For fun sometimes I imagine Dragonball if Goku were a girl instead. There's virtually no difference. Then I realize I'm imagining Dragonball with Arale as the main character. Would Arale grow into such a well-adjusted adult though... ...or grow at all because she's an android?
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Jul 7, 2015 19:55
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Xibanya posted:For fun sometimes I imagine Dragonball if Goku were a girl instead. There's virtually no difference. Then I realize I'm imagining Dragonball with Arale as the main character. I've done that too. Covok posted:Would Arale grow into such a well-adjusted adult though... ... Bulma provides her with an upgraded model because she needs to be taller to get into a martial arts tournament? Or because she can? It'd be a pretty perfect excuse if anything else!  Turns out it was me, I was the one who would link it. Thyrork fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 20:03
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in universe 6 it turns out the intergalactic hero is arale
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Jul 7, 2015 20:06
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Thyrork posted:Of course someone's going to link that "Arale Elbowing Perfect Cell" picture in response to this. I don't know this picture and I demand it to be linked!
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Jul 7, 2015 20:07
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e X posted:I don't know this picture and I demand it to be linked! Here it is. Turns out it was an open palm strike. 
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Jul 7, 2015 20:11
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 I think she means this one, but it doesn't look much like an elbow. Edit: Beaten by a couple of seconds.
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Jul 7, 2015 20:11
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Yeah I was wrong about the elbowin' Of course, the "source" for that image is a thread that rapidly decends into "Arela wouldn't be able to beat anyone she has no power level and i hate her for ruining blue saga with her dumb gag stuff  "  The entire show is gag manga, You gets what you pay for.
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Jul 7, 2015 20:13
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I hope dragon ball super meets my progressive western values
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Jul 7, 2015 20:22
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it is designed for me, the gaijin
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Jul 7, 2015 20:23
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arale is powerful and i hope these people will realise that one day
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Jul 7, 2015 20:23
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Is she also booting Cell in the balls too? My dream Dragonball series would be a show that focuses on the fisticuffs and martial arts that usually culminate in a KI blast. Kind of an extension of the original Dragonball show. Hard for regular Z-Fighters to keep up when the antagonist can create balls of death the size of the solar system and able to punch through reality or move at ludicrous speed. Of course, the animation budget would probably inflate a ton since they can't reuse the same slugging animation over and over. One Piece handles this fairly well insomuch that antagonists come in groups and each Straw Hat faces off against the group. Of course since the time-skip, if you're a woman you get diminishing returns while your breasts continue to grow at a cup size per 10 issues.
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Jul 7, 2015 20:24
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Jimbot posted:Of course since the time-skip, if you're a woman you get diminishing returns while your breasts continue to grow at a cup size per 10 issues. True art
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Jul 7, 2015 20:25
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Jimbot posted:Is she also booting Cell in the balls too? She's definitely kicking him in the crotch plate, yes. Whether there are balls under there, well...
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Jul 7, 2015 20:58
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if cell was really a perfect being he would have a giant cock and balls imo
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Jul 7, 2015 21:03
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that was also kars' fatal flaw
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Jul 7, 2015 21:04
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Ruggington posted:that was also kars' fatal flaw What do you think the loin cloth was for?
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Jul 7, 2015 21:07
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i am entirely unconcerned about gender in dragonball z
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Jul 7, 2015 21:18
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