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Call Me Charlie posted:I wouldn't mess with the preview. I was planning on going back to Windows 8.1 but the rollback didn't work and the Windows 8.1 installer is bugged where you can't enter a 0 in the product key (which I have to enter since Windows 10 blasted my stored key in the BIOS) Everyone's experience can be different, sure but I'm surprised you all are having so many problems with the Surface 3:  First, you don't have to bother with upgrading from older builds any longer (Call me Charlie is correct, the last official slow ring iso, 10130, did have an issue with the S3 because it didn't have CPU support for the new Atom yet) because 10162 is out, officially, as an iso: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkId=522144 Second, as this is a preview, I and most others always recommend a clean install over an upgrade, unless you feel like helping Microsoft with upgrade testing feedback specifically (in which case, be prepared). You can use the free version of Macrium Reflect 6 to back up your existing 8.1 install on the Surface quickly and painlessly, exactly like it is now (restore partitions and all): http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx Most of us who have been doing the insider thing for a while have been doing this. I've recovered several times this way. Last, I personally rolled back from 10158 to Windows 8.1 on the last round, specifically to test a couple scenarios and provide feedback, on my S3 so I know it can be done - though it was a clean 8.1 install I did specifically for testing. I've also upgraded from regular in-use 8.1 to insider builds on other PCs (but not the Surface). If you don't want to mess with it than by all means, wait, it won't kill you, but A) it's starting to get good and B) now is the time when "polish" feedback is getting a lot of attention - if you join the insider program (which is free), use your MSA (also free, and you can create another if you don't want to use your regular Microsoft account), install an official .iso and not some random leaked build from Mega.nz or something (for fucks sake) then you will not only probably have a decent experience but you will have a chance to actually provide feedback and might even help influence the direction of this OS on tablets. PSA: With the new builds, you have to opt-in to get the Insider Hub app, which provides the bridge to send in feedback information to Microsoft. I send in stuff all the time. Don't just complain about how it isn't the advanced Windows 7 of your dreams - do something about it  Now is about the best time there will ever be.
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Jul 4, 2015 23:21
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I have a Lenovo Yoga Tablet 2 13 not a Surface And I wouldn't know what to tell them beyond 'oops, mail app just crashed again with no error code or anything  '
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Jul 4, 2015 23:33
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Call Me Charlie posted:I have a Lenovo Yoga Tablet 2 13 not a Surface Since the Preview releases are still using Telemetry, it would tell them quite a lot actually (and no, it doesn't keylog you or send all your poo poo to the NSA...or at least, no more then Google/Microsoft/Apple/etc. are doing anyway depending on how thick your  is). So yes, by all means run it and send a report that says hey, the loving mail app keeps crashing. Maybe omit the "loving" if you want to be polite and be heard but you get the point Ixian fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 03:44
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I'm considering buying a Surface 3 or Surface Pro 3. I'll almost certainly go for the Surface 3 since it's ultimately going to be for school/home use and nothing more intensive than internet browsing/movie watching but the SP3's awfully tempting due to just being more powerful and that kickstand. How much of an impact does 2GB vs 4GB on the Surface 3 have? For movies it probably won't matter much but I know on my desktop, 4GB doesn't feel enough but I use W7 and tend to leave everything open. From what I've heard, W8.1 and W10 run far better but I'm still worried 2GB won't be enough.
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Jul 6, 2015 02:16
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It's certainly remarkable how well Windows 8.1 can work with 2GB, especially if you stick to using metro IE and keep your expectations at a tablet level. On the other hand, if you decide you're missing all your chrome/firefox extensions and you start using a desktop browser in the way you would normally use a desktop browser, it suddenly all starts to become a bit borderline. It's really the only complaint I have about it. Everything else works nicely. Personally, if I could double the ram and storage on this tablet (also 2GB/64GB now) for $100, I'd probably do it and be happy I could stop micromanaging those aspects of it. Currently I have to be careful not to open too many tabs at once (8-10) and even take into consideration whether I'm opening picture heavy threads here. Sure it's the browser's fault if it can't really handle low memory situations gracefully, but why would that need to be something I need to worry about? I don't want to overstate the problem, but it's certainly not the case that 2GB is super comfortable, you'll never notice etc. It's manageable if you're open to adjusting the way you do things from how you would on a desktop.
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Jul 6, 2015 12:17
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Windows runs more than acceptably on the 1GB of my Stream 7. People will probably argue otherwise, but for basic stuff it doesn't fee cramped one bit. That said, I certainly got the 4GB/128GB config of the S3 for future proofing and less micromanagement. It's wonderful. After Visual Studio, Photoshop, and a few other small programs I have 55GB free. And oh yes, all those programs run on the Atom, if you have doubts about the performance. I'll parrot others in the thread and note that most slowdowns are a result of the slower eMMC memory.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:02
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Handy Windows 8.1 RAM Usage guide: 1GB: Just do one thing at a time and you're fine. 2GB: Just do a couple things at a time and you're fine. 4GB: The vast majority of people find this comfortable. This is a tablet, not a workstation. 8GB: Feels good man.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:23
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Hearing how much the touch interface has changed does not bode well for my Venue 8 Pro. It's already a flawed device but it's starting to look like an iPad was actually the better long term investment and that's not a favourable comparison.
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Jul 6, 2015 16:27
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The only thing I noticed going from 2 GB to 4 GB is gaming performance is a lot better. I couldn't get Team Fortress 2 to load on my old Acer tablet but my Lenovo can do Team Fortress 2 and Skyrim on low settings.Shumagorath posted:Hearing how much the touch interface has changed does not bode well for my Venue 8 Pro. It's already a flawed device but it's starting to look like an iPad was actually the better long term investment and that's not a favourable comparison. Just don't upgrade. I'm hoping that we'll get some type of Windows 10.1 update that will add more stuff for touch users but Windows 8.1 will be supported for awhile.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:25
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Flipperwaldt posted:It's certainly remarkable how well Windows 8.1 can work with 2GB, especially if you stick to using metro IE and keep your expectations at a tablet level. On the other hand, if you decide you're missing all your chrome/firefox extensions and you start using a desktop browser in the way you would normally use a desktop browser, it suddenly all starts to become a bit borderline. It's really the only complaint I have about it. Everything else works nicely. Windows 10 is killing off metro IE, and Edge is still a work in progress by all accounts, so 4GB may be a wise investment with this in mind.
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Jul 6, 2015 18:11
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Protocol7 posted:Windows runs more than acceptably on the 1GB of my Stream 7. People will probably argue otherwise, but for basic stuff it doesn't fee cramped one bit. Ditto with my Winbook. I really only use it for Tablet Things, not as a mobile workstation. Clark Nova posted:Windows 10 is killing off metro IE, and Edge is still a work in progress by all accounts, so 4GB may be a wise investment with this in mind. Edge needs some minor tweaks, but it should be fine by the launch. I use it on my Windows 10 box and it's perfectly serviceable. I don't see why it would be bad on a tablet. Doesn't support extensions (yet), but then, neither does Metro IE.
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Jul 6, 2015 20:14
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TopherCStone posted:Ditto with my Winbook. I really only use it for Tablet Things, not as a mobile workstation. Edge, right now, is a buggier Chrome that uses less memory, doesn't support extensions (and will almost certainly use more memory when it does), and in some respects is faster and others is out to lunch. It works well enough on small devices but if you are used to Metro IE you are not going to be delighted with the change, most likely. In my experience the people who leverage "Metro" IE the most are the "apps? we don't need any apps, do it all in the browser" crowd and for them the change in full/small screen optimization, gestures, etc. between Metro IE and Edge is probably going to be pretty jarring - just check out Call Me Charlie in this thread, for example Edge isn't an evolution of the Metro IE experience, it's a new browser meant to replace IE and take on Google Chrome. It's not *bad* for touch (or more specifically, small/full screen touch optimization) but they definitely focused more on the "Windows" part of the Windows name with 10.
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Jul 6, 2015 22:09
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Ixian posted:Edge isn't an evolution of the Metro IE experience, it's a new browser meant to replace IE and take on Google Chrome. It's not *bad* for touch (or more specifically, small/full screen touch optimization) but they definitely focused more on the "Windows" part of the Windows name with 10. You can't even swipe back a page. It's dogshit garbage for touch.
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Jul 6, 2015 22:17
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It's Windows. Those getting into a hand-flapping fit about the changes, stay with the old version. It's fine and can do everything the new one can, just not as slick. Those willing to persist and work with the changes, use the new version. It will change in response to the user base with coming updates. It has been this way since the 90s.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:24
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Tony Montana posted:It's Windows. Those getting into a hand-flapping fit about the changes, stay with the old version. It's fine and can do everything the new one can, just not as slick. I wouldn't say Windows has been that way since the 90's at all. In fact I can think of several stretches in that 20 odd year period you threw out where they demonstrably did the opposite. The particular irony here is Windows 10 is a release heavily influenced by user feedback. "User" is a amorphous concept in the Windows world however; put 10 together, none of them will agree more than 80% on anything and at least two of them will think the other 8 are a bunch of drooling retards who should be killed for food and/or spare parts. In my opinion At risk of being a broken record: I know, for an absolute fact, that while the Windows 10 team will not guarantee to right every personal grievance or sacred cow, right now in the month leading up to RTM before the true hordes get their hands on it is the best time to get constructive feedback on "polish" issues and requests in. Particularly around things like Edge. If you want better gestures or swipe back put back in even now is the time to fire up the official preview and submit feedback for it. Ignoring it, sticking with the old version, and assuming they will sort it out with a .1 release like 8 or a service pack like other versions isn't the safest bet because that was not the same company (mindset) that is releasing 10. There are quite a few mobile/tablet friendly things in 10 that make it worth pushing forward - get 10 to be better. As a disclaimer no, I don't work for them.
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Jul 7, 2015 02:16
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Ixian posted:I wouldn't say Windows has been that way since the 90's at all. In fact I can think of several stretches in that 20 odd year period you threw out where they demonstrably did the opposite. Eh, I shouldn't have to beta test for free to get a halfway decent OS. There should be one guy within Microsoft that has the brains to go 'hey, we centered our last OS entirely around touch. how can we not completely gently caress over that demographic? oh I know, swiping back a page. a standard feature in the 2 year old browser we're replacing.' or 'hey, instead of ripping out these features, let's let the user decide whether they want old style Windows 8.1 left swipe or the new Windows 10 left swipe. after that, let's get crazy and let power users customize what they see in the notification center because having a OneNote hotlink and not a volume slider is the stupidest goddamn poo poo ever. NO, they don't want to tap the little icon in the taskbar, you idiot! ... You know what? Just clean out your desk and get the gently caress out of here.' Even something as simple as sliding the bottom stuff on notification center up 10% and adding a start button on the top row, far right, would help out Windows 8 users without compromising anything they want to achieve with Windows 10. Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 04:23
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Call Me Charlie posted:Eh, I shouldn't have to beta test for free to get a halfway decent OS. I don't think you get to say that while using the Windows 10 preview which is basically a beta test. Just because it's obvious to you doesn't mean that it's obvious to everyone. These things are on such a massive scale, sometimes poo poo gets missed or people put them at a lower priority than you would (because not everyone has the same priorities as you) which means it gets axed for whatever reason. I think you overestimate the number of people working on any component on an overall scale. Even as much as they try to get internal testing going, a lot of people don't choose to beta test an OS because it can cause issues with their actual work. Rurutia fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 05:16
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Rurutia posted:I don't think you get to say that while using the Windows 10 preview which is basically a beta test. Just because it's obvious to you doesn't mean that it's obvious to everyone. These things are on such a massive scale, sometimes poo poo gets missed or people put them at a lower priority than you would (because not everyone has the same priorities as you) which means it gets axed for whatever reason. We're less than a month from release. It isn't like I jumped in a year ago and am bitching about how it isn't running perfectly. This is ergonomic stuff they've already figured out years ago. If you're holding a tablet in your hands, it's easier to swipe left with your thumb and tap an app in the same area than it is to swipe left and tap an app in some unrelated part of the screen. If you're using touch exclusively, you probably don't want to be stuck trying to tap tiny icons on the taskbar at the bottom of your screen to get to your start menu or to access your volume. If you've previously had search and a start button accessible from swiping in from the right, you should probably keep it as an option for the suckers who bought into your design philosophy. If you're in tablet mode and you have an app snapped, when you try to open a desktop program it shouldn't open on top of the snapped app (which is probably why they treated the desktop like it's own app in Windows 8.1) This OS is launching in 22 days. The stuff I'm complaining about was from less than 3 days of steady use. They should have figured it out way before I did. - edit Oh hey, crisis averted. 
Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 06:50
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So....you won't be doing the Windows 10 Tablet thread then, I take it? Maybe keep this one open with a  tag?
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Jul 7, 2015 13:23
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I feel it's important to point out that, sure, the lack of swipe to go back is annoying, but there are tons of really nice improvements in Edge. I would argue it's doing a better job at handling web standards support than Safari at the moment (considering all the stupid crap Safari lacks at the moment, it's not that hard  ). They added proper tab and multiple window support to WinRT to get it working like how other browsers work (Metro IE could not do that). They have areas for improving, but they are making great progress.As for the right nav menu, Xylo might be someone who could chime in on that better than me. But, pulled directly from my rear end, I'm guessing most people didn't use it or know it was there. Even with their (very basic) tutorial on how the gestures work, it was not the most user intuitive system in the world. Same goes for the share charm. I'm pretty sure the APIs for accessing share functions are still there (and they are quite good from what I remember) but instead of hooking into this universal share charm, the developer has to put the action somewhere in their app. That makes way more sense to me, since then the developer provides the context for what's being shared, rather than having a catch all "Share x thing on the screen" sort of thing. It's also what other operating systems do. I'm not saying all of the choices they made with 10 are the best, but I think, for the most part, they make sense. To get the flexibility in the platform they wanted, they had to make some sacrifices. And they probably figure that Tablets in it of themselves are probably not going to be the most popular platform to run Windows on, so it took the brunt of the changes.
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Jul 7, 2015 13:39
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Ixian posted:So....you won't be doing the Windows 10 Tablet thread then, I take it? The Windows 10 tablet thread feat. the only people who long for Windows 8.1  It's just a bummer. I was hyped for Windows 10 and it seemed like another move in a positive direction to unify touch/desktop like Windows 8.1 but they've thrown the baby out with the bathwater to appeal to Windows 7 users. And it's even crazier because there's a narrative that tablet mode turns it back into 8.1 but tablet mode is so half baked. The most noticeable thing it does is full screen apps/start screen and pop up a keyboard when you tap a text input. I need to update the OP but the hardware side is much more muddled then when I started. Before there were clear generations of devices. You'd be surprised how often certain lines get a little touch up or companies announce hardware but never follow up on it. It's a pain to try to keep up.
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Jul 7, 2015 15:28
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Forgive me if this is obvious, but what's the upgrade path to the official Win10 build? My SP3 is on vanilla 8.1 and I'd like to finally update to Win10. If I do so, am I in for some janky wipe and reinstall when the official build lands, or is it a simple update that beings the device current? Edit: googling suggests yes, but still doesn't seem highly definitive if that's a good idea. Guess I'll wait on the .iso and do a full clean install after it's released. hotsauce fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 22:25
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I've been holding out, waiting for the SP4 to be released before I upgrade my SP2, but now I'm wondering how tricky it will end up being to downgrade to 8.1. I hope there's no weird driver issues with any particular new hardware features that will make it difficult. I'd really like to see basically the sp3, but with the next generation of CPU inside, and I find it a bit odd its gone this long and microsoft still hasn't said a peep about the sp4. Does anyone have any clue when we'll start to see some word on it?
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Jul 7, 2015 23:44
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Call Me Charlie posted:The Windows 10 tablet thread feat. the only people who long for Windows 8.1 I don't completely disagree with you. You are pretty focused on Edge vs. "Metro" IE though and there's a lot more to 10 than that. Including a lot of changes that developers might actually use now. I get the frustration because thanks to the app situation the browser is the go-to app for most of the OS in tablet mode however I am starting to see that change - finally. Particularly with Media and News apps. You can actually get decent RSS aggregators, hybrid curated stuff like Flipboard doesn't suck as a Windows app anymore, and media apps like Plex and Emby actually have Windows 10 betas out that take advantage of new APIs and features. Edge is gonna take some time to bake in the oven, no question. They are putting themselves in an uncomfortable crossroads there considering the hole they are in with good quality apps. They will cede the portable market for good if they don't get it right with this OS generation, I think, and the portable market is fast turning in to the market, period (lot of people would say it already is, but that isn't the case in the Enterprise at all). Tom Guycot posted:I've been holding out, waiting for the SP4 to be released before I upgrade my SP2, but now I'm wondering how tricky it will end up being to downgrade to 8.1. I hope there's no weird driver issues with any particular new hardware features that will make it difficult. I'd really like to see basically the sp3, but with the next generation of CPU inside, and I find it a bit odd its gone this long and microsoft still hasn't said a peep about the sp4. Does anyone have any clue when we'll start to see some word on it? No word at all (other than random link bait sites - so in other words, no word at all). They just released an updated SP3 which is a minor tech refresh meant to fill a sku and nothing more. There is a reasonable chance you won't see an SP4 this year. There is even a chance you won't see one at all - they may just keep going the Surface 3/Atom route. The Surface 3 (I own it an an SP3, and used to own an SP2) is their best Surface. The SP3 is nice as hell but in my opinion if you need the power it provides you are better served with one of the increasingly diverse options on the market - a straight up Ultrabook, or one of the various bendy hybrids if you insist on that kind of thing. What I am saying is the SP3 tilts just far enough towards the "laptop/ultrabook" side of things that you might as well just get one that does that part really well. The Surface 3, by contrast, is the one that strikes the best middle ground between "Ultrabook" and Tablet. Looking at the specs you might not be impressed - given all the posters here asking if 2gb is enough I imagine this is common - but specs are deceptive with it. You aren't going to power your way through the latest PC games, re-encode your pirate video Linux iso's, or compile code in record time....but variations of those things are all possible, and it does other "PC" stuff just as well as a PC 10 times as powerful. I like it quite a bit.
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Jul 8, 2015 00:22
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Call Me Charlie, The Register wrote an article on Windows 10 just for you: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/07/windows_10_for_windows_8_and_7_users/ Once you get past the de rigor Register snark - which they have turned up to 11 - a lot of their complaints seem pretty valid to me, even though I still have a glass half full outlook on the whole thing. There's a lot to like about Windows 10 but "chaotic design" is actually a charitable way of putting the current state of the UI.
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Jul 8, 2015 03:59
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Ixian posted:Call Me Charlie, The Register wrote an article on Windows 10 just for you: There's one positive thing they mentioned that I didn't think of. Maps app now has the ability to use offline maps and it can do voice navigation. Turning my giant tablet into a giant gps system is pretty cool (and long overdue) I even submitted some feedback about how the maps app crashed every single time I tried to switch to bus directions.
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Jul 8, 2015 04:23
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Call Me Charlie posted:There's one positive thing they mentioned that I didn't think of. Maps app now has the ability to use offline maps and it can do voice navigation. Turning my giant tablet into a giant gps system is pretty cool (and long overdue) The maps are also good (licensed from Here), at least in the US. Or, since I am just talking about me, at least for my area, maybe they suck somewhere else However I hear (har) good things about them.The music app is also turning out pretty decent although (in addition to not crashing, which is just a pre-release/universal app teething thing - I hope) they really need a way to edit basic metadata, like coverart, in the thing. I like the automatic OneDrive sync as much as I hate the other changes they made to OneDrive.
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Jul 8, 2015 05:01
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The Register article.. I wrote a huge rant here and just deleted it because.. gently caress that column writing, Internet person on a Macbook and his opinions about IT when he was a coder in the 90s for a while before he got 'disillusioned'. Have you used Office on a Mac? Have you seen the autocorrect in Apple versions of poo poo just like on a iPhone? Have you seen how when you select a screen resolution in OSX, it doesn't tell you what the actual resolution is because all those numbers would confuse an Apple user? There is a million little things like this, my current employer gave me a brand new MacBook Pro when I started and I saw it as a red flag to their professionalism. I was right and although I never needed to ask it before, now when I interview for companies with less than 1k employees.. I have to ask.. Will you give me a PC or a Mac? Do you use Exchange as your mail infrastructure? Explain to me how the 'tablet computing revolution' has actually impacted computing beyond the domestic, home-orientated space.
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Jul 8, 2015 05:20
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My company also gave me an MBP upon joining. I tried it for a month, but eventually convinced them to give me a really nice Inspiron instead. I get poo poo from the guys on my team for using Windows sometimes. This is the first place I've ever worked that was not 100% PC stack. It's so weird. (granted most of them just use their macbooks as a really nice frontend on top of a Unix shell, which makes some modicum of sense)
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Jul 8, 2015 13:20
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loquacius posted:My company also gave me an MBP upon joining. I tried it for a month, but eventually convinced them to give me a really nice Inspiron instead. I get poo poo from the guys on my team for using Windows sometimes.
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Jul 8, 2015 14:22
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:They are absolutely right to do this All the open-source dev tools we use have Windows equivalents (there's even an SVN command-line client so I don't have to use TortoiseSVN  ) and it's worth putting up with a few barbs to use a computer I actually know how to use Like, after I discovered MobaXterm and gleefully uninstalled PuTTY I had no regrets remaining whatsoever, other than the display being normal instead of friggin' gorgeous like the MBP's display is (also I misremembered and it's actually a Latitude, not an Inspiron)
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Jul 8, 2015 15:23
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Yeah.... Sorry man, but for dev work I really would ridicule you for getting rid of a MBP for an Inspiron despite never having owned a Mac in my life and regularly making fun of my Mac-using team-mates. I mean, as always Windows works, Windows always works for just about everything, but the extra cash plowed down into the MBP does confer some very solid advantages to it. Otoh, good that you are happy, but this is not the Windows-is-great hugbox
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Jul 8, 2015 16:42
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loquacius posted:All the open-source dev tools we use have Windows equivalents (there's even an SVN command-line client so I don't have to use TortoiseSVN You are broken in some fundamental way
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Jul 8, 2015 16:46
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loquacius posted:All the open-source dev tools we use have Windows equivalents (there's even an SVN command-line client so I don't have to use TortoiseSVN So let me get this straight; The rest of the company uses Macs, but you have to be a special snowflake and use windows? Also why wouldn't you just bootcamp on the Mac?
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Jul 8, 2015 16:48
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:Yeah.... Sorry man, but for dev work I really would ridicule you for getting rid of a MBP for an Inspiron despite never having owned a Mac in my life and regularly making fun of my Mac-using team-mates. I mean, as always Windows works, Windows always works for just about everything, but the extra cash plowed down into the MBP does confer some very solid advantages to it. Whoa but it doesn't list the resolution in numbers. It's just unusable garbage for development work!
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Jul 8, 2015 16:49
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For what it's worth, I'm in the same camp as loquacious. Everyone else at the company uses Macs, but I have a PC. Very happy with the decision.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:04
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I love my SP3 and like Windows for personal use, but if everyone else is on a Mac, just use a Mac, don't add extra things that could go wrong.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:16
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:You are broken in some fundamental way granted ratbert90 posted:So let me get this straight; The rest of engineering uses Macs, but I had to use the operating system I am most comfortable with. Non-engineering people get a choice when they join. And the keyboard layout was one of the main things I couldn't get used to, which bootcamp wouldn't have helped with. Mecca-Benghazi posted:I love my SP3 and like Windows for personal use, but if everyone else is on a Mac, just use a Mac, don't add extra things that could go wrong. Eh we're a webdev company, all our poo poo is several layers of abstraction above the OS level anyway. I had to find a lovely third-party solution for web-debugging on iPad, but I refuse to think of that as anything other than Apple's fault
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Jul 8, 2015 17:21
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:Yeah.... Sorry man, but for dev work I really would ridicule you for getting rid of a MBP for an Inspiron despite never having owned a Mac in my life and regularly making fun of my Mac-using team-mates. I mean, as always Windows works, Windows always works for just about everything, but the extra cash plowed down into the MBP does confer some very solid advantages to it. MacBooks are unusable garbage and I'm posting from one right now.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:31
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RMBP hardware is great and Windows supports native EFI booting, so what's the problem? Just install Windows on your macbook. Then just use windows. Problem solved.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:53
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