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Doctor Spaceman posted:Basically the same issue as the current comics run then. No, it's completely different! In the comics, there have been FOUR Robins.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:03
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Terrible Horse posted:Theres 0 hope that the Batgirl DLC will be available for PC players with the main game still in quarantine, right? I'm assuming that if you already purchased the season pass, you'll be able to play it. As far as I know they haven't said anything specifically though. It'd be pretty hilarious if they did hold it back for the PC.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:04
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Cat Machine posted:What *is* the timeline for the Arkham games? I know someone said something like "you've been doing this for over a decade!" at one point in Knight but I've never heard any other chronological references. 2 years in > Arkham Origins (no Robins or other Batfamily yet at endgame) 5 years later > Arkham Asylum (Barbara is established as Oracle sometime prior to game's events, so Tim is already Robin, probably for a minimum of a year already) 1.5 years later > Arkham City (Tim is still Robin, Dick established as Nightwing sometime prior to game's events) 1 year later > Arkham Knight (Tim is still Robin, but is treated like he just started) So if Tim is already Robin during the Batgirl stuff, which is before Asylum by at least a fair amount if Barbara is already full-on Oracle by then, that was a busy, busy time for Robin turnaround. Must have been a nightmare for Bat-HR. To summarize: Robin during Batgirl DLC should have been just-pre-Nightwing Dick or Jason. redbackground fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 16:04
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Arkham Origins seems to be the end of Year 2, and Knight is ten years later. Hard to say when the sidekicks came in, though multiplayer suggests Robin was in Year 3. That sounds right. In Origins there is posters for the Grayson preforming soon, with posters saying it been delayed or something like that.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:06
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Those Flying Grayson posters still being up a decade later is really funny and morbid. Maybe Dick stuck out on his own because he was tired of see his dead parents every time he looked at a billboard. theflyingorc posted:No, it's completely different! FIVE Robins. Everyone forget's Stephanie's tenure as "the kid Batdad hates".
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Jul 8, 2015 16:15
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:The timeline of this series is a mess. Batman went through three Robins in six years? That is actually true to the comics though. Actually less in the Nu52 where he's somehow had 4 Robins in only a handful of years.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:22
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Origins makes me wonder what the hell the timeline is since Batman's relationship with Bane seems to be one that is largely ambiguous. Like, I could never tell if he really knew who Bane was beforehand or not? They were always weird about whether or not Knightfall was a thing but I'm guessing it isn't in this universe, since there was no Jean-Paul Valley and Batman doesn't seem to know who or what Azrael is in Arkham City. Jean-Paul Valley actually would have been a fantastic reveal for the Arkham Knight and would have made a lot of sense. A vengeful batman-looking dude with lots of technological poo poo all over him. I'm surprised he's been one of the major characters they skipped over in favor of using plain old Michael Lane as the boring as gently caress version of Azrael.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:30
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MinibarMatchman posted:Origins makes me wonder what the hell the timeline is since Batman's relationship with Bane seems to be one that is largely ambiguous. Like, I could never tell if he really knew who Bane was beforehand or not? They were always weird about whether or not Knightfall was a thing but I'm guessing it isn't in this universe, since there was no Jean-Paul Valley and Batman doesn't seem to know who or what Azrael is in Arkham City. Knightfall wasn't a thing. Bane was a mercenary before he went after Batman but that is true to his comic origin where he goes after Batman for his own personal hosed-up reasons. MinibarMatchman posted:. I'm surprised he's been one of the major characters they skipped over in favor of using plain old Michael Lane as the boring as gently caress version of Azrael. JP-V has been in largely terrible comics. Michael Lane's series was surprisingly good.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:32
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ImpAtom posted:Knightfall wasn't a thing. Bane was a mercenary before he went after Batman but that is true to his comic origin where he goes after Batman for his own personal hosed-up reasons. It was kind of weird when Bane said "with your death I will have peace" because virtually nothing was explained about this in Origins. it's obviously a slightly different Bane but it's all assumption that he comes from the same kind of personal vendetta. JPV may have had terrible comics, and I agree, but he makes more sense as a violent hosed up Batman than the identity we got. Michael Lane comes across as pretty tame here.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:37
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Knightfall is implied to have happened thanks to dialogue in Asylum, but Asylum is weird in how it references things. Maybe sanity prevailed in Arkhamverse Knightfall and Dick was the temp Batman.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:37
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Funky Valentine posted:Knightfall is implied to have happened thanks to dialogue in Asylum, but Asylum is weird in how it references things. I tend to assume that Asylum is only semi-canon at this point. When it came out it was clearly created to be a 'in the comics' sort of self-contained story. Nothing was supposed to have any lasting consequences and it was just support to exist in a sort of generic state of Batmanhood somewhere between the comics and B:TAS. City is where they really clearly tried to do their own setting..
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Jul 8, 2015 16:44
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redbackground posted:2 years in > Arkham Origins (no Robins or other Batfamily yet at endgame) It's specifically mentioned several times that 10 years have passed between Origins and Knight (i.e. Firefly not being seen in Gotham for a decade, Deathstroke references their first encounter). So I imagine that Asylum is actually a bit more than 5 years after Origins, leaving a bit more time for Robin turnover. Also, comic books rarely make sense.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:48
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it's pretty funny how this is touted as the end to a trilogy and Origins kept getting swept under a rug, but there you have things like the Electrocutioner gauntlets in the evidence room or guys like Deathstroke. I did really like that evidence room, they clearly had fun putting in the descriptions and all the cop dialogue. Man I'm gonna be disappointed if the Freeze DLC boss fight isn't just a ridiculously bigger version of the AC fight
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Jul 8, 2015 16:53
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I wonder what convoluted reason they'll come up with to make Mr. Freeze evil again.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:54
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MinibarMatchman posted:it's pretty funny how this is touted as the end to a trilogy and Origins kept getting swept under a rug, but there you have things like the Electrocutioner gauntlets in the evidence room or guys like Deathstroke. I did really like that evidence room, they clearly had fun putting in the descriptions and all the cop dialogue. I feel like they made a lot of overt references to Origins in AK, not sure what you mean by it being swept under the rug.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:58
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bonds0097 posted:It's specifically mentioned several times that 10 years have passed between Origins and Knight (i.e. Firefly not being seen in Gotham for a decade, Deathstroke references their first encounter). So I imagine that Asylum is actually a bit more than 5 years after Origins, leaving a bit more time for Robin turnover. Asylum was probably closer to 8, though that leaves massive holes regarding Jason's kidnapping. Comic book time lines are hosed up because it is rarely profitable to move beyond the status quo. So timelines float for decades over hinders of issues. This is not an excuse for AK, since it's in a self contained continuity with 4 entries.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:58
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It's probably best not to think about the timeline too much. What difference does it make?
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Jul 8, 2015 16:59
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bonds0097 posted:I feel like they made a lot of overt references to Origins in AK, not sure what you mean by it being swept under the rug. The fact they said it was a "trilogy" is what he's referring to. Nearly all previews said something along the lines of " the exciting finale of this trilogy series. Not once did Rocksteady or the press acknowledged that Origins was part of the Arkham series. But it could have been because Rocksteady forgot. Like this game was suppose to be released on October (which I find funny because this game apparently takes in "Halloween") of last year and not once did they ever mention Origins in their previews. At. All. So I guessed that gave the impression to the fanbase that Origins was not part of the series. Of course as you said, they reference Origins alot in this game. edit: Sir you clear underestimate Goons with timelines. Just look at the goddamn Zelda thread. 
Shindragon fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 17:00
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Shindragon posted:edit: Sir you clear underestimate Goons with timelines. I was mostly trying to put off some work I didn't want to do. 
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Jul 8, 2015 17:05
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MinibarMatchman posted:it's pretty funny how this is touted as the end to a trilogy and Origins kept getting swept under a rug, but there you have things like the Electrocutioner gauntlets in the evidence room or guys like Deathstroke. I did really like that evidence room, they clearly had fun putting in the descriptions and all the cop dialogue. You forget Firefly.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:07
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Shindragon posted:edit: Sir you clear underestimate Goons with timelines.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:13
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theflyingorc posted:Nothing will ever be stupider than nerds trying to build a timeline out of a series that was clearly developed for 20+ years with no intention of the games being seriously interconnected, and discarded anything related to connecting them at every single opportunity that it became convenient. Nintendo has an actual published timeline though. Every game through Skyward Sword.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:15
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ayn rand hand job posted:Nintendo has an actual published timeline though. Every game through Skyward Sword. Which is a dumb thing backdated onto the series and is still really stupid
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Jul 8, 2015 17:15
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Shindragon posted:The fact they said it was a "trilogy" is what he's referring to. Nearly all previews said something along the lines of " the exciting finale of this trilogy series. Not once did Rocksteady or the press acknowledged that Origins was part of the Arkham series. But it could have been because Rocksteady forgot. Like this game was suppose to be released on October (which I find funny because this game apparently takes in "Halloween") of last year and not once did they ever mention Origins in their previews. At. All. So I guessed that gave the impression to the fanbase that Origins was not part of the series. Didn't really follow previews or the advertising, but what I did see was it presented as the finale of the "Rocksteady" trilogy ie pointing out the fact that it's the developer for the first two.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:18
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theflyingorc posted:Which is a dumb thing backdated onto the series and is still really stupid To be honest up until Wind Waker, the timeline wasn't so bad. OOT started, than it was MM, followed by LTTP, Oracles, LA, then Zelda 1 and 2. Not particularly hard to figure out given the state of Hyrule and/or Ganon. WW was really the first game where the timeline started to fracture since it couldn't take place in the same timeline as MM.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:22
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ImpAtom posted:I tend to assume that Asylum is only semi-canon at this point. When it came out it was clearly created to be a 'in the comics' sort of self-contained story. Nothing was supposed to have any lasting consequences and it was just support to exist in a sort of generic state of Batmanhood somewhere between the comics and B:TAS. City is where they really clearly tried to do their own setting.. I agree with this. Asylum is really where the timeline gets murky, and if you just think of it as non-canon you can really straighten things out. I mean, at least if they had referenced Nightwing or Batman had mentioned Jason being missing it would work out.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:28
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Origins' plot details are royally screwed up. My current thinking, based on spending way too long studying the game, is that the development went roughly as follows. 1. Script written with two antagonists- Black Mask, then Bane replacing BM halfway through the plot. The writing on this script is terrible in every way. 2. Developers start making promotional trailers and, for some reason, ingame cutscenes. 3. Development on game begins. General outline of maps and locations prepared. Problems begin to emerge because script/cutscenes cannot be reconciled with game design/engine. 4. Executive change: Joker is a surprise villain! Ambitious plans for prequel DLC starring Slade and the Joker, with XP progression and open world environments are made. The script is hastily reorganized, with plotlines dropped and events reordered. Setpieces devoted to Bane are reorganized and made Joker-y. A minimal number of cutscenes are remade to include the joker. The writing in these scenes, and in the general, central script, is still incredibly terrible. Conflicts between game and cutscenes become much worse. 5. The cutscenes are finalized and cannot be remade. The development team realizes how screwed they are. The planned prequel DLC is removed, and a number of sidequests are cut or simplified. Someone working on the in-game writing (whom I hope got credit) does tremendous work trying to paper over inconsistencies between and within cutscenes, and does much better writing for characters in the game generally. This probably happens when crunch begins, to give an idea of how little time/resources WB Montreal had to work with. Although the details aren't clear, under the original plan: 1. Bane would do many of the things that Joker ultimately did. It was going to explain Bane's backstory and motivations more thoroughly. The bombs-through-the-city thing, the bank, and the penthouse crime scene were added to make this work. The rest were altered to incorporate the Joker substitution plot. 2. Most of the main events in the game's sequence were going to be in a different order and Bane-centered. The details aren't clear, but, for example, the gun deal at Jezebel Plaza was originally with Bane's army. This and a lot of other changes are still visible in the cutscenes, although the devs did their best to hide them with editing. 3. The Long Halloween was probably going to be a separate crimesolving sidequest. 4. Deadshot and Shiva's quests were going to have more parts. Enigma might have had a conclusion planned. 5. Penguin's sidequest was probably going to have an ending confronting and resolving his part of the plot. 6. There were going to be Heart of Ice-scale DLC starring Slade (definitely) and the Joker/Red Hood (probably). There are files left over ingame that modders found showing that the devs created XP system particle effects for them and everything. A lot of this content was never actually produced, but the reorganization of the game mid-development (and the fact that cutscenes were pretty clearly being produced only during the early-mid stages) mean that the final product is a bit of a mess. There were enough really bad writing and design problems that I don't think WB executives have all the blame, though. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 17:30
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:The timeline of this series is a mess. Batman went through three Robins in six years? It explains why he's a massively overprotecting dick in this one at least.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:32
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Discendo Vox posted:(and the fact that cutscenes were pretty clearly being produced only during the early-mid stages) Also, there are many cutscenes with Joker (esp. some major ones including the bank robbery, his dicking with everyone in the penthouse, and the blowing up of that building). How does that fit that he wasn't included until later? 
redbackground fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 17:33
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Discendo Vox posted:Origins' plot details are royally screwed up. My current thinking, based on spending way too long studying the game, is that the development went roughly as follows. Your hatred of Origins has gone straight into weird obssessiveness, especially when you've clearly given Knight a pass on things that you tried to tear into Origins for. Almost everything you said there is assumption on a ridiculous scale. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 17:36
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Game development fan fiction.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:39
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Discendo Vox posted:Origins' plot details are royally screwed up. My current thinking, based on spending way too long studying the game, is that the development went roughly as follows. Please do something useful instead of typing treatsies on timelines. Don't you have a bar exam to study for or something
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Jul 8, 2015 17:40
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Mogomra posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YStfyOSn1bE Stills made her head look too big, but in motion I think Barb's model looks great. As for Robin....what the gently caress. It would make sense for it to be anyone else but Tim. It could've been Damian and I would've accepted that! And it looks like they just reused his Knight model, not even his City model. What, did Barbara have her legs 2 days before Asylum? drat it Rocksteady, that's lazy. Should've been Dick. Could've been Jason, but should've been Dick. Maybe it's best to just pretend there is no timeline and anyone mentioning the passage of time is hallucinating on Scarecrow toxin.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:40
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redbackground posted:Sorry, could you clarify why that's clear? There are a number of cases where the game has to correct something that occurs in a cutscene. For a couple of the clearer examples: 1. Deathstroke sighs and draws his katana at the end of the cutscene before his fight. The very next moment, the instant the game transitions to in-engine, he puts it away again and pulls his staff out - iirc, the devs hadn't given Deathstroke a staff at that point in the game's development- and they definitely hadn't planned to have him use it in the fight. 2. In the cutscenes showing Penguin at the crimescene, the game tells you visually, early, that Roman has a pacemaker and this is why Penguin knows that it's a body double (the text actually appears onscreen, something like "no pacemaker"-it's why Penguin opens his shirt with his umbrella). Penguin's goons in that scene are wearing nifty outfits that only appeared in concept art. Some slicing and dicing went on with that scene to let the pacemaker exposition happen later. 3. Ingame, The Jezebel Plaza deal is between Penguin's men and a group of generic thugs. The cutscene was recut to obscure it (one sign is the use of voiceover before and during the scene to set it up), but the people buying the guns in the cutscene are wearing outfits that are concept art for Bane's army. There are smaller ones, too- Alfred's crazy mood swings, the use of ingame character interactions to change the context of a cutscene immediately before and afterward, weird cuts and layout shifts around the Copperhead fight, a "hidden" crime scene in the bank(though that last one was probably caused by other development issues). The devs had to spend a lot of time trying to readjust the game to fit the narrative of the final script/cutscenes to the game. I'm glad they did it, because the cutscene prose is soul-crushingly awful, and some (not all) of the in-engine writing is quite good. There are a bundle of plot holes and inconsistencies as a result, though. redbackground posted:Also, there are many cutscenes with Joker (esp. some major ones including the bank robbery, his dicking with everyone in the penthouse, and the blowing up of that building). How does that fit that he wasn't included until later? Those were indeed redone later, but they tried to add as few of them as possible. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 17:49
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you are insane, how the gently caress would you think Joker and Deathstroke were "DLC content" shoved into the game lol
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Jul 8, 2015 17:52
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Discendo Vox posted:1. Deathstroke sighs and draws his katana at the end of the cutscene before his fight. The very next moment, the instant the game transitions to in-engine, he puts it away again and pulls his staff out - iirc, the devs hadn't given Deathstroke a staff at that point in the game's development- and they definitely hadn't planned to have him use it in the fight. ... Or, as Deathstroke specifically calls it a game and draws the katana only when he's being pushed, that he is holding back from using his lethal weapon from the start. Deathstroke the Terminator having a staff is an actual thing from the comics. They were obviously glad to reuse Robin's moveset but I'm not buying they didn't plan for Deathstroke to use of his iconic weapons. Meanwhile you've conveniently ignored all of Knights obvious development problems or wrote them off as publisher interference.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:54
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MinibarMatchman posted:you are insane, how the gently caress would you think Joker and Deathstroke were "DLC content" shoved into the game lol They weren't- I'm not saying that. I'm saying that there were plans to make additional DLC where they would be playable in some larger context with XP progression. Deathstroke and Joker's characters both have early build progression materials rendered for them. Slade gets dollars instead of bats for particle effects. ImpAtom posted:Your hatred of Origins has gone straight into weird obssessiveness, especially when you've clearly given Knight a pass on things that you tried to tear into Origins for. ayn rand hand job posted:Please do something useful instead of typing treatsies on timelines. My bar exam was a year ago, and I already did all of this research when I was replaying the game alongside Scruffy's LP of Origins. Someone asked why Bane's motivations aren't explained- that rewriting process is why. ImpAtom posted:... Or, as Deathstroke specifically calls it a game and draws the katana only when he's being pushed, that he is holding back from using his lethal weapon from the start. The point is he draws the katana in the cutscene then puts it away again when the transition hits. Rewatching the cutscene just now, Deathstroke's staff isn't even rendered on him. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 17:55
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Discendo Vox posted:Those were indeed redone later, but they tried to add as few of them as possible. It is quite fitting for a Batman game to send someone spiralling down into obsession and mental illness. Maybe you could make a costume out of discarded Arkham Origins discs.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:56
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Discendo Vox posted:They weren't- I'm not saying that. I'm saying that there were plans to make additional DLC where they would be playable in some larger context with XP progression. Deathstroke and Joker's characters both have early build progression materials rendered for them. Slade gets dollars instead of bats for particle effects. So, please tell me. Which DLC published by Rocksteady or WB Montreal had a leveling system. Is it not, perhaps, more likely that was a leftover from an early build that they created for every playable character and ended up not using? You know, the thing that happens in tons of games.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:57
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ImpAtom posted:... Or, as Deathstroke specifically calls it a game and draws the katana only when he's being pushed, that he is holding back from using his lethal weapon from the start. That's stupid. You're saying Deathstroke drew his sword, decided it was a game and not serious, and then re-sheathed his sword. Then he realized Batman's legit and it's NOT a game, so he re-drew his sword. I'm much more inclined to believe Vox if I had to go with a theory. There is no explanation as to why Deathstroke would draw his katana and then immediately put it away. You can like Origins without having to make excuses for it.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:59
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