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Goddamn I love this thread.
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Jul 8, 2015 22:12
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e: I had something posted here, but actually you know instead of arguing, and explaining, and justifying, and whatever for another 5 pages ad infinitum, instead I'll say this: I want to talk everything over with my wife first. I haven't even done that yet. I appreciate the immediate input so far, and I'll definitely let you guys know what I decide to do.
Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 22:17
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My completely unsolicited advice: - Don't forget WV has state income tax, and based on this you'll be paying nearly $3600 just from your base salary of $72469. After adjusting for the state income tax, your base salary would be $68884. So you're looking at your pre-tax income increasing by about $575/mo which I personally would not move across the country for. - The 6% bonus sounds wonderful, but that is probably a maximum rate that depends on factors outside your control, like the company as a whole reaching certain performance criteria. In reality I'd be expecting more like 2-3% the years that it does pay out, plus bonus income is taxed higher than regular income (but I couldn't be bothered to look that up to calculate it). - The only way I would touch a proprietary technology like AX is if it was on a contract for like 1-2 years for $megabux. Proprietary technologies come and go and tend to go at the worst possible time (just from what I have read, I don't have personal experience). I would absolutely want to stick with the core languages of C, C++ (barf), Java, Python and even Javascript. *IF* the position is remote, that would make it more palatable. But only slightly.
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Jul 9, 2015 00:28
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Bonus income is not taxed at a higher rate. It is generally withheld at a higher rate because the payroll calculators essentially act as if you're making more money. It straightens out when you file for a refund.
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Jul 9, 2015 00:37
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Nail Rat posted:Bonus income is not taxed at a higher rate. It is generally withheld at a higher rate because the payroll calculators essentially act as if you're making more money. It straightens out when you file for a refund.
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Jul 9, 2015 00:43
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:I've given up on explaining this to coworkers who bitch about it every 6 months. fake edit: goddammit kg
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Jul 9, 2015 00:45
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Jesus Christ it would annoy the hell out of me if I regularly had interviewees decline job offers because "oh, well, I don't even know if I want this job or to leave my current job...by the way I don't actually want to relocate I'd much prefer this was remote work" poo poo or get off the pot, son. You're wasting people's time.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:37
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:I've given up on explaining this to coworkers who bitch about it every 6 months. Same, but for us it's even more ridiculous since bonuses pay annually and it's like...30-35% of our total income. Of course, tax season everyone is bragging about how they ALWAYS get money back from the government.
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Jul 9, 2015 15:25
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Tamarillo posted:Jesus Christ it would annoy the hell out of me if I regularly had interviewees decline job offers because "oh, well, I don't even know if I want this job or to leave my current job...by the way I don't actually want to relocate I'd much prefer this was remote work" This situation seems relatively par for the course regarding software development jobs. I regularly interview people to join our team at our company, and we have many candidates that are obviously still happy with their current job but are still curious about what we might have to offer. It's hard to find quality talent that is currently aggressively looking for a new job, most of the time you have to do the 'we really like you' dance and convince them to make the change. Throwing 'I want to work remote' into the discussion is definitely dependent on the company though, for example at ours we are fine with people working from home one day a week or so but we value in-office communication enough that I don't think we allow much full remote positions at all. Software jobs are a different beast that most other office positions. I might be biased living in Silicon Valley, but it's very much a buyer's market right now. Companies are tripping over themselves to offer stupid nice incentives (free lunch every day, sponsoring extracurricular activities, quality health plans, ability to custom pick your work machine, etc). I think Knyteguy is doing what most other candidates do and I expect that the company has seen this situation go down countless times. lmao zebong fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 18:51
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Input considered guys, thanks. MRC I agree with your points. Alright so I finished the convo, here's the details: Insurance: Health Insurance  http://i.imgur.com/gJ1bJD6.png $10 generics on prescriptions "[Company] provides full-time employees with $235.38 per pay period for 2015 to purchase benefits. Employees may elect to have any unused dollars deposited into their 401(k) account, Health Savings Account or they may purchase other benefits. Employees may also have the unused dollars included as taxable income in their paycheck. " $6,100 total for the above according to the HR rep. I'm not sure if per pay period is 26 pay checks or 24, as my wife's insurance doesn't get taken out on the extra 2 paychecks of a 26 paycheck cycle. There's vision and dental too, but I'm not going to bother posting it. Free life insurance 2x salary and free disability insurance. 2 weeks of PTO the first year, 3 weeks after that (a higher amount after 4 years). HSA Contribution from them @ $1,500/yr. There's an FSA plan also. 401K: 60 day period before becoming eligible. After eligibility there's a 5% of salary automatic deposit (should be about $3,600?) contribution from them. On top of that they match 100% of 2% of my contribution, and 50% of the next 2%. Free cable all channels, but employees pay equipment rental fees. I've worked for a telecommunications place as a subcontractor, and normal employees paid about $20/mo for this. $10/mo for an unlimited everything smart phone with one of the big 4 phone companies. 25% off for a spouse. $10/mo off of internet. The sign on bonus is paid with the first paycheck, and that is pre-tax of course ($10,000). The yearly bonus You guys were rightfully skeptical. 60% is based on corporate goals, 20% is based on department goals, 20% is based on personal goals. 0-6% is the payout, but the HR rep did say that she has seen a bonus every year. Tuition Assistance $4,000/yr on seminars, classes + books + supplies, or certifications that relate to the job or potential jobs within the company. Oh and the job is actually in VA not WVA (that was another one I got mixed up with this one). I'll try to do some tax estimations as MRC did for the new place. All of the above is posted without bias. I'm simply putting the information out there. I said I needed until Monday to make a decision. A written offer will be coming today. I'll do some math this weekend to give better insight on everything. e: forgot tuition assistance Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 19:29
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I'll get June's budget results posted tomorrow night as I'll do this week's reconciliation then (so everyone isn't upset if the math doesn't seem to be adding up). I'll post as YNAB, and then to prevent confusion further, I'll post it in a text form (budgeted vs out).
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Jul 9, 2015 19:37
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I think the thing that sums it up nicely for me is that you had the wrong state. As far the benefits, they seem pretty standard, health insurance seems a bit expensive, and their contribution doesn't seem the greatest (although if a spouse is covering insurance with their job it could be ok -- although most insurance companies require the spouse to pick up insurance if they are eligible for it elsewhere).
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Jul 9, 2015 19:40
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Knyteguy posted:I'll get June's budget results posted tomorrow night as I'll do this week's reconciliation then (so everyone isn't upset if the math doesn't seem to be adding up). I'll post as YNAB, and then to prevent confusion further, I'll post it in a text form (budgeted vs out). It's 1/3 of the way into the next month, what on earth is there to reconcile? Why wouldn't the math "seem to be adding up"? Why is what you are doing causing any confusion at all, after how long you've been doing this?
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Jul 9, 2015 19:45
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MrEnigma posted:I think the thing that sums it up nicely for me is that you had the wrong state. East and west is just one of those things I goofily mix up sometimes ObsidianBeast posted:It's 1/3 of the way into the next month, what on earth is there to reconcile? Why wouldn't the math "seem to be adding up"? Why is what you are doing causing any confusion at all, after how long you've been doing this? Look at when I posted May's end of month budget, and the resulting scrutiny, and these questions will likely answer themselves. As far as what to reconcile, well we have spent money and it's not in YNAB. I'll post it tomorrow as I said I would; not gonna field more questions on it because it's just going to end up like the rest of the times.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:53
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The health insurance seems pretty crappy, but it might be the norm I guess? If I'm reading that right your health insurance would cost $448.29 per pay if your whole family was covered. If I further understand, you are given up to $235.38 per pay towards that. So you'd be paying $212.91 per pay pre-tax for a high deductible insurance plan. I have no idea what you guys are paying now, but that's probably $350/mo post tax eaten by health insurance. Seems high, but again I'm not sure what is normal for the private sector. e: Another thing about the health insurance, which may be obvious to everyone else, but we just moved to a "Qualified High Deductible Plan with HSA" here at work and gone are the days of copays for office visits and stuff. You get to pay the whole bill, and only when you hit your deductible do you get a break. That was a big eye opener for me, I've been with my employer 13 years and have probably been to the Dr. 5 times. But if I go now because I have the flu, I get to pay for the office visit out of pocket ($??? $150? $180?) and then get to pay for any prescription meds at full retail too. Fuckin' health insurance. I want to be a socialist, just tax my paycheck bro. dreesemonkey fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 20:42
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Knyteguy posted:As far as what to reconcile, well we have spent money and it's not in YNAB. The second you spend money, you enter it into YNAB. There shouldn't be a delay.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:43
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So: $72,496 per year -$3,500 (State income tax estimate based on their website) -$5,535 (Medical Insurance) -$1,000 (Vision dental estimate since you didn't post it) $62,461 per year Basically a 0% pay increase before losing your wife's income + you'd have to move across the US. Seems like a pretty easy no to me. You could MAYBE leverage it into a better offer at your current employer, but I wouldn't expect that conversation to go far and as it's been said before that's a huge risk. 401k seems like the only decent benefit they have, but I'm spoiled having corporate benefits ($49/mo HMO health insurance, 3x pay life insurance, 15 days PTO 11 holidays, etc.)
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Jul 9, 2015 21:00
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Bugamol posted:
May I ask what you do? That sounds lovely. Is that standard for your position or do you just work for a really great company?
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Jul 9, 2015 21:30
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Jesus christ 2 weeks Pto only? Is that normal in the US because I get 28 days + 8 public holidays and even that runs out too fast. I'm not even in nearly as hot a field as computer things.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:03
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Saros posted:Jesus christ 2 weeks Pto only? Is that normal in the US because I get 28 days + 8 public holidays and even that runs out too fast. I'm not even in nearly as hot a field as computer things. Yeah, Vacay's not great round these parts. I'm lucky that I'm with a travel company and we start at 15+8 holidays.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:06
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MAKE NO BABBYS posted:May I ask what you do? That sounds lovely. Is that standard for your position or do you just work for a really great company? I'm in finance. It's definitely the company though. I'll probably never leave.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:28
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I work for the government and get 14 days PTO and 14 holidays. My healthcare is covered 100% though and that is amazing.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:59
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Got my written. Official title is "Jr. .NET Programmer" which I don't like. My buddy was a "Senior .NET Developer" with way less experience than me. I know titles mean gently caress all, but I don't know if I'd like that on my resume at this point in my career. I also feel like I'd be pigeonholing myself into the AX field. I think I'm going to take on learning Javascript soon. It's the hot "new" thing and I've already got some experience with it. I've actually been trying to convince my boss to let me hook up some Angular stuff in this new feature we're looking at adding. I'm more a web developer than anything else, so it'll help me either way. The math that you posted Bugamol isn't looking great so far. I've decided I'm going to take the offer to my boss. I do deserve a pay raise over CoL, and I feel like he knows that. I have what I think will be a good approach for this, and it'd be difficult for him to get upset about it if he's the one who told me to do it. I'm the only developer in my company and the bigger company, so if they hire someone else that I need to start training then I'll know my time is probably nearly up. Wish me luck. No guarantees of course, but hey fortune favors the bold right? Having a small emergency fund is great for allowing me to do this I think. Wife didn't get that job, even with nepotism.  . Next time.Saros posted:Jesus christ 2 weeks Pto only? Is that normal in the US because I get 28 days + 8 public holidays and even that runs out too fast. I'm not even in nearly as hot a field as computer things. I have 15 days of PTO and 7 days of holiday currently. It'd be a small step down at first, but if I were to take it it'd go up to 15/8 after a year. RheaConfused posted:I work for the government and get 14 days PTO and 14 holidays. My healthcare is covered 100% though and that is amazing. I've been helping my wife look for jobs, and I've definitely been looking more at government jobs for her. That'd be great (and she agrees of course).
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Jul 10, 2015 00:00
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Knyteguy posted:I've decided I'm going to take the offer to my boss. I do deserve a pay raise over CoL, and I feel like he knows that. I have what I think will be a good approach for this, and it'd be difficult for him to get upset about it if he's the one who told me to do it. I'm the only developer in my company and the bigger company, so if they hire someone else that I need to start training then I'll know my time is probably nearly up. I don't agree with this idea, you couldn't even convince some random internet people you were serious about taking the job so they're going to see straight through you and it's only going to make it harder to get a payrise later. If you are not prepared to put in your 2 weeks notice straight after they say you won't get the raise, it's not even worth trying.
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Jul 10, 2015 00:07
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Knyteguy posted:Got my written. Official title is "Jr. .NET Programmer" No. No no no no no. You are going to take your boss an offer letter that identifies you as a Jr. .NET Programmer and think that is going to get you a raise? Self identifying as a junior anything is not going to help make your argument that you are underpaid for your experience, especially when the offer basically translates to the same net amount. You are telling him he is paying you the correct amount for your current skill set, as determined by market.
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Jul 10, 2015 01:05
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Knyteguy posted:I've decided I'm going to take the offer to my boss. Stop. Breathe. Consider. This is your classic way of rushing things. As others have said, you're essentially going to take an offer to your boss with a title you don't want and with roughly equivalent pay. If we can figure that out (and really, good for Bugamol for spelling it out for you but you should have also taken the time to do this) then what's stopping your boss from running the same numbers? I'm not in favor of you approaching your boss with any offer whether he told you to or not because of the potential for downside if it fails, but IF you're going to do this I would be taking a substantially better offer to him than this one. Just my two cents.
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Jul 10, 2015 01:40
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Knyteguy posted:I've decided I'm going to take the offer to my boss. I do deserve a pay raise over CoL, and I feel like he knows that. I have what I think will be a good approach for this, and it'd be difficult for him to get upset about it if he's the one who told me to do it. I'm the only developer in my company and the bigger company, so if they hire someone else that I need to start training then I'll know my time is probably nearly up. This is a really bad plan, as others have stated. But if you really don't think they'll tell you to pack up and leave, you don't get how companies work. You are always replaceable, and they'll drop you in a second and farm out your work to temps/contracts until they get someone permanent. I know you think your boss is a good guy, and it sounds like he really is, but he has his best intentions in place, and those of the people paying him, not yours. Like people have been telling you over and over, if you want a raise, come up with the quantitative impact you've had as a developer, how much more responsibility you've taken on etc, and that you want to be paid accordingly. But you don't seem to want to do that because its a tough conversation, which I get. Your written offer isn't going to stand, especially if your boss asks to think about it for a night and does the same math Bugamol does and realize you're asking for a raise with a net $0 offer.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:08
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Knyteguy posted:I've decided I'm going to take the offer to my boss. I do deserve a pay raise over CoL, and I feel like he knows that. I have what I think will be a good approach for this, and it'd be difficult for him to get upset about it if he's the one who told me to do it. I'm the only developer in my company and the bigger company, so if they hire someone else that I need to start training then I'll know my time is probably nearly up. Have you actually had a sit down with the person who sets your pay and formally asked for a raise in writing including why you should get the raise? I understand that you may have a few months worth of cash on hand, but you do realize that you're still thousands of dollars in debt right? Do you really think the offer in hand will greatly increase your odds of getting the raise? Do you think you could do it in stages where perhaps you ask for the raise without the offer, it's a lot less risky. I would disagree w/ some of the other posters about their ability to replace you. It sounds like you're not really working for a tech company, so they may not have other people that can easily step in right away to replace you. All that being said, using an offer as leverage for a raise is a bad idea if you aren't willing to leave.
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Jul 10, 2015 03:49
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IllegallySober posted:Stop. You mean like the 6 figure offer a few weeks back?
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Jul 10, 2015 04:27
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KG, you continue to play shell games with your finances, and to ignore very sensible advice that this thread gives you regarding your career. When dealing with your livelihood, you should NEVER make ultimatums of an employer unless you're comfortable with the termination of your employment being a possible outcome, and YOU HAVE A loving KID, so absent either savings WAY in excess of what you currently have or a secure job offer that you're 100% able to transition into without it being a net loss, that isn't an option for you. You're playing the nuclear option right off the bat rather than just starting by negotiating for a raise. This is a career-limiting move, and were I your boss the fact that you came at me with "this is what elsewhere would pay me, hint hint" rather than "here are my achievements, here is what the work I am doing is worth, this is why my value to the company is greater than currently negotiated" would make me mentally bookmark you as a likely candidate to jump ship, and therefore unsuitable for future opportunities for development.
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Jul 10, 2015 04:34
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SiGmA_X posted:You mean like the 6 figure offer a few weeks back? I don't recall him ever actually getting an official six-figure offer. Everyone threw around $105K as a budget figure during his San Diego pipe-dream phase but I thought that ended with no official offer due to stuff on the company's end.
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Jul 10, 2015 05:05
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I think it was we can't offer you what you want thanks for applying, and never an official offer. Just be willing to quit if your boss says no or plan on never getting anything above COLA at your current job.
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Jul 10, 2015 06:11
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The company in SD basically said that they made a decision to not hire for that position (that would be mostly internal, non-billable stuff) because they made a similar hire previously and they didn't want another non-delivering staff person on hand at the moment. So it was pretty much a dropped ball on their part.
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Jul 10, 2015 13:00
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You guys understand that the same behaviors KG exhibits here are the same ones that he exhibits at work, yes? I'm sure I'm not the only one posting in this thread who hires and manages developers. Beyond a basic level of competence (which KG has), at the top of my list of what I want in a dev is intellectual honesty. It can't be stressed enough. Without that, at best the person tops out in a senior developer role and we learn to take his work/opinions with a grain of salt. At best.
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Jul 10, 2015 13:31
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Just go tell your boss you want a raise, why you deserve it, what your new title should be, and what your bill rate to the client should go up to. If you can convince him to bill the client $10 more an hour for your time you should be able to see $3 of that. That is what I did every year when I was a consultant. Don't take that offer anywhere unless you want to move to Virginia (is the other company even going to pay to move you? I don't think I saw that mentioned). Your boss should laugh in your face with that offer.
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Jul 10, 2015 14:37
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Boss: "Oh that's nice, can I see the offer details? Interesting, where is it?" KG: "West Virginia, I mean Virginia, well someplace over there" Boss: "Interesting. Get out of my office"
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Jul 10, 2015 14:46
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Knyteguy, listen to these people on all accounts, but especially on your boss' motivations and interest. I fully trust what you're saying about your boss being in your corner, but ultimately his business is going to come before you. If he'd truly prioritize what's best for you over both himself and his business, you are gonna want to jump ship anyway because that would be horrible management. And that means certain things. Like training up a replacement to not pay you $10,000 more a year. Also? Maybe you bring this weak proposal power-move to him on the same day he gets a bad diagnosis, or he divorces, etc. etc., and it just hits him WRONG, and now your job is in jeopardy. That's why people are saying you need to have a job offer you'd move for and be prepared to put in your two weeks. Not just so you can walk for more money (your current offer is for 0 more, this is hypothetical) but because that's your worst-case: you're walking immediately because you misread how your boss would react. Old Greg fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 15:08
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Ask yourself this simple question. "If my boss is really "in my corner" why won't he give me the market rate I deserve? " I worked for a company for almost three years and every year during my review they were going to "make it up to me" next year. They never did. So I found a better offer and left.
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Jul 10, 2015 15:17
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My understanding of KG's current job is that it's two people, him and his boss, and they work exclusively for a particular company. KG has said he knows what his billing rate is to this company - is this correct? Does this mean that every dime that KG doesn't get paid goes directly into his boss' pocket? Correct me here if I'm wrong KG. In addition, KG has indicated that it would be possible to go to work directly for this company. Why has this possibility not been explored further? Removing the middleman of his boss who's interests are in direct conflict with his seems like a prudent choice. This entire thing circles back to a pattern of impulsiveness and trying to find 'quick fixes' to long term problems. I would say that the situation with KG's wife asking for 60k at this job that has fallen through is another example. 60k seems like an unrealistic number given where KG lives and given what KGwife's experience was in the field (zip). Even if your wife found a job that paid exactly the same as her current job, but had regular 9-5 hours, this would be a significant increase to their quality of life. I find it very disconcerting that after just a few months of finally following a budget that KG has decided that he *must* go on a vacation in August. In addition he has referred to 'having a small emergency fund' when approaching his boss with the offer. KG still has significant debt, and has significant monthly obligations that he would not meet without his job. I feel like a lot of the regular posters in this thread must being the whole broken record routine quite a bit at this point. Just to reiterate my thoughts: * Continue to post your monthly budget, and for god's sake post what you've actually spent prior to TEN days into the next month. Why is July's budget not posted? * There has been additional mention of 'starting another business'. I would really discourage this, as there has not been a record of these businesses proving to have much financial payout. KG should be working on developing additional programming/work skills. The time spent starting a business would be far better off developing a small project in an area that can demonstrate his ability to new employers. Write an app or something? Do some javascript project? * KGwife needs to continue searching for new employment. Even if this job is a lateral move compensation wise, if she can get a job with regular hours, there will be a significant quality of life increase. * KG needs to *stop* applying / interviewing for jobs out of the area. KG has tested the water pretty well on this, and there is no evidence that he can obtain a job that will pay enough to compensate for relocation and for his wife not working.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:03
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No update from KG? I cannot see this ending well.
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Jul 10, 2015 18:23
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