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Rutibex posted:Nah, Hardcore mode was awesome. On my first play-through I broke my leg and didn't have a doctor's bag. See, when we take out the narative, we're left with a boring tale of how hardcore mode sucked.
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Jul 9, 2015 04:13
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lol yes when you take out the story, the story sucks.
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Jul 9, 2015 04:20
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7c Nickel posted:Because having someone randomly explode in a crowded room is a little less stealthy than shooting him in the back of the head with a silenced pistol when he's alone. I think this is a good example of one of the reason I like Fallout 3 more. Bethesda is more willing to just have random poo poo happen. Obsidian basically abandoned the random encounter system from F3 so you'll never find a Deathclaw hanging out in a low level area. They'll throw up invisible walls to keep that from happening in fact. Obsidian will program in a few quest solutions but actively remove stuff that doesn't relate to you finishing the quests their way. Except you don't have to confront him on the casino floor. I mean, I know you're mad you couldn't exploit AI scripting, but for god's sake there's like ten different ways to deal with Benny throughout the game, including ignoring him entirely. I mean, having him stay on the casino floor without going up to his room is a design choice, sure, but it's one that's made so the vast majority of players don't have to hunt him down or hope he didn't disappear altogether, not some conspiracy by Obsidian to prevent you from doing the quest the way you want it. I mean hell, I for one would greatly prefer if most of the quest-relevant NPCs in Bethesda games didn't walk around because it makes it that much more frustrating to actually, you know, do quests... but I will admit that's subjective. As to quest design and choice, Obsidian has Bethesda beaten so far out of the water I don't know what to tell you. For the vast majority of Fallout 3's quests, there are only three options-the good way, the neutral way (The good way but you get paid for it), and the "Comically evil" way. And that isn't even going into the fact that Fallout 3 just doesn't have that many quests to begin with! Obsidian, for their flaws, put a ton of work into their quest design, so there are always multiple ways of completing a quest that make sense for different characters that doesn't fall into a good/neutral/evil dynamic. I mean, there are some things that Fallout 3 has over New Vegas, but quest design is objectively not one of them.
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Jul 9, 2015 04:30
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I mean hell, I for one would greatly prefer if most of the quest-relevant NPCs in Bethesda games didn't walk around because it makes it that much more frustrating to actually, you know, do quests... Reminded me that I'm trying to find this little girl to give her her teddy bear and she isn't anywhere on this drat air base. And of course it's an unmarked quest, so she doesn't have a quest marker.
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Jul 9, 2015 04:40
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Crabtree posted:The believable world where mercenaries get contracts to go after you because you gave too much water to those assholes sitting outside of Megaton and Rivet City. My favorite thing about Talon Company is that you never find out who they're working for or why their mystery employer is paying good money to kill people for do-gooding. Or here's another question if their job is just to make sure the Capitol stays nasty and chaotic (as is heavily implied), why do they devote so many resources to fighting Supermutants? What sort of master plan involves simultaneously stabilizing and destabilizing the same region? Do they have multiple employers? Who knows? Fans have theorized they might be working for Tenpenny, or the Institute, the Enclave or somebody, but none of them really fit and we're given know evidence to suspect anyone. I honestly think that Bethesda just decided they wanted some evil mercenaries for you to fight, and never put any more thought into who hired them or why.
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Jul 9, 2015 04:43
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Lotish posted:Reminded me that I'm trying to find this little girl to give her her teddy bear and she isn't anywhere on this drat air base. And of course it's an unmarked quest, so she doesn't have a quest marker. God that is the worst. Or when some high-level creature spawns in a town, kills a guy you want/need to talk to, and you don't find out until like five hours later. Edit: Though granted, that hasn't happened to me in any of my recent playthroughs.
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Jul 9, 2015 04:48
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My favorite is when I'm making my way through a vault or cave or something and decide to look something up in the wiki. Then I see there's a cool unique weapon in this place I should grab. I head over there and find out that something I did caused to to fall into the floor or something and disappear. So I'm left with the option of reloading a save from who knows how far back I have to go or just forget about it. Long story short, I did Vault 22 twice.
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Jul 9, 2015 04:53
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Cojawfee posted:My favorite is when I'm making my way through a vault or cave or something and decide to look something up in the wiki. Then I see there's a cool unique weapon in this place I should grab. I head over there and find out that something I did caused to to fall into the floor or something and disappear. So I'm left with the option of reloading a save from who knows how far back I have to go or just forget about it. Don't forget giving a companion a high-value weapon, having it get shot out of their hands, and getting abandoned broken and useless god-knows where when you weren't looking.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:04
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Don't play Bethesda games on consoles. It's never a good idea.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:06
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 God I hope there are failed skill check options in F4
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Jul 9, 2015 05:07
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Did Fallout 3 have a guaranteed pass if you were above the skill level for the skill check? I don't think I ever passed one of those because I was stupid with how I used my skills.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:14
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frajaq posted:
Ugh, NV handled speech checks like poo poo. I hope they go back to the percent chance style versus the "you need this much speech or you're guaranteed to fail" crap. The failure options were pretty funny sometimes, though, and with the way conversations are being handled now, it looks like they have a lot more potential, like it being a whole awkward conversation instead of just one line.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:14
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^^^lol at someone preferring the % chance speech checks. "uh oh looks like i failed on a 75% chance better reload." or lets be honest "30% chance of passing speech check, time to cheese the game over and over."Cojawfee posted:Did Fallout 3 have a guaranteed pass if you were above the skill level for the skill check? I don't think I ever passed one of those because I was stupid with how I used my skills. for some of them, but i think the skill check for president eden or that colonel had like a 60% chance to succeed at max speech. Roobanguy fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 05:15
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Cojawfee posted:Did Fallout 3 have a guaranteed pass if you were above the skill level for the skill check? I don't think I ever passed one of those because I was stupid with how I used my skills. Speech just raised the chance of passing. It didn't have a set level you needed to be at.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:15
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I wouldn't mind having a minor chance to pass a skill check if i was guaranteed to pass if I met the requirement.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:16
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Roobanguy posted:^^^lol at someone preferring the % chance speech checks. "uh oh looks like i failed on a 75% chance better reload." or lets be honest "30% chance of passing speech check, time to cheese the game over and over." Makes more sense than "uh oh, looks like I can't pass this speech check. Hold that thought, NPC, I'll be back in a few days to finish my sentence". 3 handled speech checks the way a pen and paper game would handle it; by letting you take a stab at it no matter what, but making it easier the higher the skill was. The way NV handled it broke the flow of story pretty darn bad. Cojawfee posted:I wouldn't mind having a minor chance to pass a skill check if i was guaranteed to pass if I met the requirement. That sounds like the best way to handle it.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:20
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You guys know you can just put Jackbadass on your ignore list, right? You don't have to keep jumping on his very weak attempt of trolling.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:25
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Cojawfee posted:I wouldn't mind having a minor chance to pass a skill check if i was guaranteed to pass if I met the requirement. But any % chance at all is effectively a 100% chance because people will just savescum it until they pass.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:28
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Duckbag posted:My favorite thing about Talon Company is that you never find out who they're working for or why their mystery employer is paying good money to kill people for do-gooding. Or here's another question if their job is just to make sure the Capitol stays nasty and chaotic (as is heavily implied), why do they devote so many resources to fighting Supermutants? What sort of master plan involves simultaneously stabilizing and destabilizing the same region? Do they have multiple employers? Who knows? They're hired by all the people that prefer Post Apocolyptia to Post-Post Apcocolypse. We're doing just fine with our stagnant not societies, Lone Wanderer. Stop making poo poo slightly better! And speaking of redoing terrible vaults, is there any sort of Vault social experiment left for 4 to show off at this point? Particularly one that's isn't going to be yet another graveyard of failure? Crabtree fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 05:29
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Back Hack posted:You guys know you can just put Jackbadass on your ignore list, right? You don't have to keep jumping on his very weak attempt of trolling. Lmao. Only gigantic babies use the ignore function. I don't agree with Jackbadass but if his posts are seriously frustrating you that much then just stop posting forever.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:51
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JackBadass posted:Makes more sense than "uh oh, looks like I can't pass this speech check. Hold that thought, NPC, I'll be back in a few days to finish my sentence". 3 handled speech checks the way a pen and paper game would handle it; by letting you take a stab at it no matter what, but making it easier the higher the skill was. The way NV handled it broke the flow of story pretty darn bad. Pen and paper games do not let you save and reload. Percentage-based checks are not good when combined with games that let you save/reload without any limitations.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:56
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AHungryRobot posted:Lmao. Only gigantic babies use the ignore function. I don't agree with Jackbadass but if his posts are seriously frustrating you that much then just stop posting forever. Some people would much rather just circle jerk in an echo chamber instead of having a conversation with someone who might have a different opinion than them. It doesn't bother me.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:57
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AHungryRobot posted:Lmao. Only gigantic babies use the ignore function. I don't agree with Jackbadass but if his posts are seriously frustrating you that much then just stop posting forever. I haven't so much as quote him or discussed anything he's brought up, but it feels like some people are about to burst a blood vessel trying to argue with him. Just thought I'd remind people that it is an option.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:57
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Really, the idea of making a P+P-inspired RPG in a game system where you have no limitations on saving is almost inherently stupid, but I don't think anyone's going to be too much in support of "no saving in the wilderness", except me.
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Jul 9, 2015 06:00
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Alain Post posted:Pen and paper games do not let you save and reload. Percentage-based checks are not good when combined with games that let you save/reload without any limitations. This is true, but in a game with a skill system styled after a pen and paper game like the Fallout games are, it makes more sense than the way it was handled in NV. There did need to be some way to handle the save and reload thing, but the way Obsidian tried wasn't a very great alternative. Maybe just taking out speech checks and replacing them with just perk checks would be a better system, like how you could hack some of the robots in dialog if you had the Robotics Expert perk.
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Jul 9, 2015 06:01
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This is assuming skills even still exist as we know it in the game and are not Skyrim style trees to level up and get perks from.
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Jul 9, 2015 06:04
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The correct way to handle it, imo, would be to completely hide the speech checks. As it stands, there's no reason to pick the failure options except for amusement (and the tiny perk you get for choosing like 50 failed speech checks). Having the success/failure options just look exactly like normal dialogue options would encourage people to not worry about passing every speech check they see. It's not like FNV is a game where you're hosed on multiple quests if you can't pass a check anyway. I think Obsidian at least provided the option of doing exactly this in PoE.
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Jul 9, 2015 06:05
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Crabtree posted:This is assuming skills even still exist as we know it in the game and are not Skyrim style trees to level up and get perks from. I've been torn over whether I want this or not. I think I'd miss the P&P aspect of it, but Skyrim did have a good system in the way it handled skills and leveling, so it wouldn't be a bad thing. Alain Post posted:The correct way to handle it, imo, would be to completely hide the speech checks. As it stands, there's no reason to pick the failure options except for amusement (and the tiny perk you get for choosing like 50 failed speech checks). Having the success/failure options just look exactly like normal dialogue options would encourage people to not worry about passing every speech check they see. It's not like FNV is a game where you're hosed on multiple quests if you can't pass a check anyway. I think Obsidian at least provided the option of doing exactly this in PoE. That could work, too, as long as it wasn't painfully obvious where the checks were taking place.
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Jul 9, 2015 06:08
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I love the hidden checks in PoE. I think someone was making a mod like that for New Vegas, painstakingly going through every skill check and removing the tags, but that would take ages so they probably gave up on it.
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Jul 9, 2015 06:09
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FNV is not only generally good at having quests be completeble without passing speech checks, but it's also good at providing checks that aren't checks to Speech. This arguably had the effect of devaluing the Speech skill (there are a shitload of Science checks for some reason), but it also results in really funny stuff like guessing a password by being either really lucky or really stupid. like, really, the point is stop worrying about failing speech checks because I can't think of any instances off the top of my head where it like, completely fucks you over, unless you consider going into combat being hosed over. besides, if you aren't pumping Speech you're doing a combat-oriented character anyway. Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 06:11
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Alain Post posted:FNV is not only generally good at having quests be completeble without passing speech checks, but it's also good at providing checks that aren't checks to Speech. This arguably had the effect of devaluing the Speech skill (there are a shitload of Science checks for some reason), but it also results in really funny stuff like guessing a password by being either really lucky or really stupid. Dead Money's two or three Lockpick checks ftmfw.
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Jul 9, 2015 06:13
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2house2fly posted:Dead Money's two or three Lockpick checks ftmfw. Solving Dr. 0's name in OWB being possible with a Math Wrath check. also it wasn't FNV but the one computer in F1 that required a Gambling check to hack ftw.
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Jul 9, 2015 06:14
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Between hacking a computer, talking to other people or otherwise gathering data to naturally work your way around a problem without skills or finding the rare instance Math Wrath or some other perk is good outside of combat, Beth pretty much has all the tools it needs to make speech work without visible percents. But I'd also like reputation to also be involved in this so people can know you're the goddamn owner of several settlements and the biggest trade Caravan in Boston. It's in their best interest to become friends with a big shot like you if you've been building yourself into a rich badass before you stumble onto some story quest.
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Jul 9, 2015 06:44
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I've seen so little of this game, but the developer guy has said so much and it's just fun to splash around in that pool of ideas. I wanna wet my beak a little bit in this world, especially if it's 1/800th as insane as he says it is. Mostly going by the quotes from Cream there.
Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 06:50
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Duckbag posted:My favorite thing about Talon Company is that you never find out who they're working for or why their mystery employer is paying good money to kill people for do-gooding. Or here's another question if their job is just to make sure the Capitol stays nasty and chaotic (as is heavily implied), why do they devote so many resources to fighting Supermutants? What sort of master plan involves simultaneously stabilizing and destabilizing the same region? Do they have multiple employers? Who knows?  This is the Talon Company mural found in Fallout 3. As you can see, it depicts Doom 3's Maledict gripping the plump buttocks of a weeping baby boy in its claws. You could go to your local CVS Pharmacy right now, dig through a bin to uncover a copy of the game in its original shrink wrap for $2.99, plop it into your disgusting "backup" Xbox 360, and behold this image--no DLC or modding necessary. A Bethesda employee dreamed up this image and said, "Yes, this. This will encapsulate the Talon Company perfectly." T. Howard put his wax seal of approval on it and the rest is history. Several years ago, when someone asked Ropekid about this image in a (now archived) New Vegas thread, the Lead Designer got real quiet and seemed to skirt around the question. "Obsidian doesn't agree with the direction Bethesda took the TC [Talon Company] in. Obsidian doesn't like it at all." The truth of the matter is that Talon Company never had a fully realized backstory--at least not in the game. While its function was to serve as a mysterious and malevolent force that was "like the Enclave, only blacker and more evil", lead writer Emil Pagliarulo took advantage of the faction's blank slate to inject a degree of symbolism into them that was otherwise unheard of in the game. Throughout this 2008 GameReactor interview, Pagliarulo draws numerous (abrupt) parallels between Fallout 3's setting and the Irish Potato Famine of the 1840's. quote:"Food and water are essential resources; In Fallout 3, we've got water as the driving theme--everybody's thirsty, wherever you look. In real life, food is another common source of strife because people need to eat." Add to this the fact that "dragoons" were Irish boys the British Empire abducted at an early age, indoctrinated, and subsequently turned against their former compatriots, and the image of a demon clutching a soft baby bottom makes almost too much sense. Also, consider that Pagliarulo's Twitter claims he is... quote:Lead Designer and Writer for Fallout 4 at Bethesda Game Studios - Gamer, Father, Celt, Southie Boy ...and has posted cryptic messages in the past.
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Jul 9, 2015 07:00
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drat even the post's formatting is good.
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Jul 9, 2015 07:07
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precious
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Finally, we have an enemy more nefarious than the Enclave. Britannia has crossed the toxic sea to claim a weakened America and the rest of the New New World back as her colonies! The Brotherhood and all of its knightly nonsense somehow follows them because Todd Howard. It all makes sense?!
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Jul 9, 2015 07:08
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well obviously the dastardly Englishmen offered the brotherhood some of their laser brown bess muskets if they would trample all the factions around Boston so that their troops need only fight the brotherhood rather than a confederation of Boston tribes.
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Jul 9, 2015 07:10
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Crabtree posted:Finally, we have an enemy more nefarious than the Enclave. Britannia has crossed the toxic sea to claim a weakened America and the rest of the New New World back as her colonies! The Brotherhood and all of its knightly nonsense somehow follows them because Todd Howard. It all makes sense?!  Yes. Yes it does. No wonder there's an airship, in a future DLC we take the fight to them!
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Jul 9, 2015 07:14
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:words Oh my god... Are we really going to fight... the British? What is the likelihood of this being canon?
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Jul 9, 2015 07:31
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